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Research Group #6 - Mr. Mime, Mawile, Torkoal, Solrock

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by DTC, Sep 21, 2012.

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  1. Ashley11

    Ashley11

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    I will Try this using Torkoal and Solrock. Just in case you might need an alt, my alt is Ashley11 Testing.

    Solrock@Light Clay ------------Torkoal@White Herb
    Ability Levitate ----------- -----Ability White Smoke
    Nature ------------------------Impish Nature: Jolly
    Evs: 252 HP 252 def 4 Sp -- ----Evs: 252 hp 252 speed 4 attack
    Light Screen --------------------Shell Smash
    Reflect ------------------------Rapid Spin
    Will O Wisp---------------- ---- Flame Charge
    Explosion Earthquake
  2. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    After using these Pokemon for a while during the past days, I have to say that these Pokemon are a lot better than they look. I added SMASHKOAL to my team since spinning is awesome and its natural bulk allows it to take many physical attacks. I don't feel the need of posting SMASHKOAL's set as you can see it in EBeast's post. I might try out WhiteDMist's EV Spread but with max Speed, you can outspeed base 70s such as Samurott and Ludicolo which is nice to get off a Rapid Spin before it dies. Here are the sets I've been using on my team:

    [​IMG]
    Solrock @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Morning Sun
    - Stone Edge / Zen Headbutt

    After using Solrock, it has found a special place in my heart. One of the only SR'ers with recovery and even a status move on top of that. Burn status is quite uncommon in this metagame, but it is really good considering how the majority are physical attackers. Being able to cripple Braviary, Golem, Regirock, Cinccino, and even Zangoose is really great. Solrock can switch into most other Rock-types with ease and some normal types such as Kangashkan and Braviary to an extent. Morning Sun lets it take repeated attacks throughout the match. With Will-O-Wisp, Solrock can even take on Skuntank as most don't usually Taunt right away. Stone Edge or Zen Headbutt can be used depending on which Pokemon you want to hit harder. Solrock's immunity to Ground-type attacks, Psychic-typing, Will-O-Wisp, and recovery makes it a really reliable Stealth Rocker and burn spreader that should be used more.

    [​IMG]
    Mawile @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Pain Split
    - Iron Head
    - Sucker Punch

    Mawile has always been a favorite pokemon of mine. This Mawile set (suggested to me by WhiteDMist on IRC) is surprisingly good. With Intimidate and defensive investment, it still takes on Cinccino, Swellow, DD Fraxure and Skuntank very well, but it can also go offensive with Swords Dance. Mawile can attain Swords Dance boosts very easily considering how bulky it is on the physically defensive side and Iron Head and Sucker Punch hit quite hard after some boosts. I put some EVs in attack to make its attacks not as weak while still maintaining good bulk. Pain Split allows Mawile to recover HP as it boosts up against Pokemon like Alomomola and Amoonguss. Unlike other Steel-type "set uppers" aka Klang, Mawile has recovery, better physical bulk with these EVs, and priority. I just really like this set because it combine's Mawile's great defensive capabilities with a pretty offensive set. It works exactly like that in battles too so it's not just "theorymoning".

    tl; dr use these mons if you dgaf, have fun :)
  3. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Annoyer, I like the offensive investment! I've been testing out some Speed benchmarks, but your way may be even better. I think that having Speed is more useful with Substitute over Pain Split, and that offensive investment works better with Pain Split.
  4. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

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    ^about the 2 above

    Defensive mawile looks really good and I would love to use it, the thing that bothers me is it seems extremly hard to make a good team with it that isn't completely crushed by braviary. Mawile's typing is a blessing for a team and would usualy make it the dedicated bravaiary counter of the team, but now that braviary has access to defiant, intimidate will usualy leave your team crushed by the big bird. This means you will probably have to carry another rock or steel type and will often leave your team weak to other physical monsters like sawk, rampardos or emboar. Solrock would seem a good solution to this problem since he counters braviary's deadly flying-fighting combination and has levitate. Unfortunately, solrock is weak to braviary's u-turn and mold breaker rampardos.

    This is why I probably will never use defensive mawile in a metagame where defiant braviary is such a big threat.
  5. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Well, that is definitely a concern if you switch in Mawile against Braviary. Still, there are other Pokemon that can be set up on as well, including the likes of: Cinccino, Swellow, Skuntank, Cacturne, non-Dragon Tail Lickilicky, Amoonugss and other walls if you carry Substitute instead of Pail Split. I admit, it's not the best Mawile set, but it has its uses.

    I also would like to say that Annoyer's Solrock set definitely uses all of Solrock's benefits over other, sturdier, Rock-types.
  6. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    Well, Braviary has 0 counters and Mawile still wouldn't be a counter if Defiant wasn't there. Mawile still makes a decent check to non-CB Braviary. The Mawile set that I listed above can actually beat SubBU Bravivary, but you have to predict pretty well the majority of the time. Mawile can still take a couple of Choice Scarf Braviary's attacks (even after the Defiant boost) except for Superpower which doesn't even OHKO. As FLCL posted in another thread, if you don't have two checks to Bravivary, something is wrong with your team. As a side note, Mawile can tank a Choice Scarf Sawk Close Combat at full health. I'm not saying that Braviary isn't a huge thorn in the side for Mawile, but it isn't as bad as you make it seem.

    The thing about Solrock is that it actually has recovery unlike other Rock-types so it can heal up after taking around 50-60% from a CB U-turn. Not saying that it won't/can't happen, but most CB Bravivary's don't use U-turn too often as that usually stacks up Rocks damage which limits the amount of Brave Birds Bravivary can spam while also limiting its switchins. Solrock can also take 2 CB attacks from Braviary, burn it with WoW, and then heal up. With Stone Edge and Will-O-Wisp, Solrock can take on SubBU Braviary and unlike other Rock-types like Carracosta with Toxic, Solrock doesn't get worn down as much due to Morning Sun.

    I forgot to say this in my last post, but SubDisable Haunter makes a great partner with Mawile and Solrock since his immunities and Disabling covers up some of the weaknesses/holes such as Fighting-type attacks, non-scarf Braviary, Fighting-types and Gurdurr (Gurdurr dgaf that it's a Fighting-type since it wants its own mention).

    Since Mr. Mime was the only Pokemon I didn't use this week, I might as well post some calcs with Filter.

    Show Hide

    252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino U-turn vs 0 HP/0 Def Mr. Mime: 77.38% - 91.4%

    252 Atk Life Orb Absol Pursuit vs 0 HP/0 Def Mr. Mime: 82.35% - 97.74%
    (^ didn't switch)

    252 Atk Golem (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Mr. Mime: 81.9% - 96.83%

    252 Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Mr. Mime: 88.24% - 103.62%

    252 SpAtk Haunter Shadow Ball vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Mr. Mime: 70.14% - 83.26%

    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Gardevoir (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Mr. Mime: 80.54% - 95.48%


    Some of these calcs are pretty insignificant since Cinccino can OHKO Mr. Mime anyways with Tail Slap, but the player might be in the mind that Mr. Mime might switch and if Mr. Mime doesn't, I'll OHKO anyways with U-turn. Same with Absol's Pursuit. It's kind of a meh ability but it should be used on a non-baton passer set (which is why there are no HP EVs).
  7. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

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    Alright, discussion has died out in this. I'll start a new Research Group soon, as well as set up the page on the hub for it.

    In the meantime, what do you think of these Pokemon? Did they exceed your expectations? Were they not as good as you expected? Would you use them again?
  8. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Of the two Pokemon I used during this, Torkoal and Mr.Mime, I can definitely say that they were really good in their own right. As for Torkoal I was already using SMASHKOAL so there wasn't any real surprise factor that I got from using that set as I already knew of its effectiveness. However, I cannot say the same for Mr. Mime as it was my first time using something that worked how it did. While my team wasn't exactly catered to fit Mr. Mime it did enjoy the Calm Mind passes being given to Haunter and Ludicolo. While using it I came to the realization of how great the Calm Mind + Baton Pass set Musharna was. Mr.Mime was more for full on Baton Pass teams that can support it with Iron Defense from Mawile while Musharna is better on other teams thanks to it excellent initial bulk.

    While I only really left this RG with the thoughts of using Torkoal over again, it opened up my world to CM Pass Musharna. I have been using the CM Pass strategy quite a lot recently and it was all thanks to this Research Week. Another thing to note was that the two prominent Baton Pass users in this week's batch, Mr.Mime and Mawile, provided inspiration for MMF's "Even Usain needs to Baton Pass" team that has been shredding the ladder. Solrock has been given more exposure as a great addition of a Hyper Offense team with its Screens / SR / Explosion set. Overall this was one of those Research Groups that I felt really made a difference.
  9. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    This Research Group came out a lot better than I expected. It brought limelight to the best rapid spinner in the tier, SMASHKOAL, and it showed that Solrock has some really unique attributes over other Rock-types that can definitely make it a part of some teams. Mawile has always been an underused pokemonin my eyes, and I was glad I was able to use another set it is capable of using that combines its offensive and defensive capabilities into one. I didn't use Mr. Mime that much, and I didn't see it on the ladder at all (other than that fucking retarded baton pass team mmf). Mawile has stayed at my level of expectations since I know it's not that great of a Pokemon, but it sure has a lot of niches. Solrock really exceeded my expectations since it's qualities as a SRer over others really showed out to me. As for SMASHKOAL, let's just say that he had a lot of successful spins.

    I will probably use all of them again, but some of them such as Mawile or Solrock are pretty hard to fit on a normal team. Pretty good RG :)
  10. MMF

    MMF Give me the strength to part this sea

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    Yeah I was actually really impressed with Mawile and Mime on my BP team. They honestly did a lot more than I expected (mainly Mime) and both pulled their weight pretty well. I won't go into too much detail(expect an RMT soon!) but they are both very under appreciated Pokemon who deserve more use
  11. mrite

    mrite

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    My team happens to have both Mawile and SMASHKOAL on it, so I'll leave a little blurb about my experiences with them:

    I used SD sheer force mawile on my team, a poke that seems to be deceptively strong, with sucker punch doing ~50% to cinccino at +0, and similar amounts to many other fast sweepers, and iron head managing to take out alot of the meta in one hit at +2, and thanks to the wondrous steel typing, it can set up on a lot. However, life is not all roses, and my set had nothing to handle emboar with, nor could it do much to Almomola (I used fire fang instead of Tpunch), however even so, once set up, it was very powerful.

    Torkoal is a very good poke, with the SMASHKOAL set being able to sweep the enemy team once weakened, and spin easily, however, it does have problems with alot of enemy pokes, mainly ampharos, who can easily tank a +2 Earth power, and paralyze with discharge, and then 2ko. It also has real problems stopping many physical sweepers, due to a stealth rock weakness, and its sub-par typing, but it does get off a spin most all of the time.
  12. Awmgnoob

    Awmgnoob

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    I decided to kill two birds with one stone, I decided to try out a TR team using Mr. Mime and Solrock, let's get to it.

    [​IMG] @ Life orb
    Trait: Filter
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
    Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe) 0 Spe IVs
    - Psychic
    - Signal beam
    - Shadow ball
    - Thunderbolt

    As you can see, I went for a very offensive set, 100 SpA is quite special in NU, and life orb and a varied movepool only enhances it. Still disappointed about a trick room turn enhancing item only reinforced my reason to go all out offense. I won't patronise anyone with EV or nature options, they're pretty standard for a trick room sweeper. 5 turns is plenty of turns for Mr. Mime to do some work, although the movepool does not seem that varied, it hits almost everything in NU for fun. Psychic is a clear STAB attack, combined with 120 SpA and life orb. Focus blast allows me to hit Absol that may want to come in on a psychic, although I hate using it for accuracy reasons. Thunderbolt allows me to hit Alomomola and other bulky waters. Shadow allows me to hit Golurk for Super effective damage too. Here are some calcs:

    252SpAtk Life Orb Technician Mr. Mime (+SAtk) Thunderbolt vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Alomomola (+SpDef): 52% - 62% (280 - 332 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252SpAtk Life Orb Technician Mr. Mime (+SAtk) Psychic vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Amoonguss (+SpDef): 67% - 79% (290 - 344 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252SpAtk Life Orb Technician Mr. Mime (+SAtk) Psychic vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Amoonguss (Neutral): 97% - 115% (420 - 498 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 84% chance to OHKO.

    252SpAtk Life Orb Technician Mr. Mime (+SAtk) Focus Blast vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Bastiodon (+SpDef): 99% - 99% (323 - 323 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.


    Now, we move onto the catalyst, the poke that makes it all happen, Solrock.

    Solrock is the usual lead, and ever since R/S/E I've always expected it to have amazing defenses, but has just never lived up to my expectations.

    [​IMG] @ Life orb/Focus sash
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Atk / 4 Atk - 0 Spe IV
    Nature Brave (+Atk, -Spe)
    - Trick room
    - Explosion
    - Zen headbutt
    - Stone edge

    I really like using Solrock, it's such an unusual pokemon, it is the main lead in my team, trick room is the obvious stand out move here. Regardless of explosion being nerfed and Golurk being ever present and haunter is rising in usage, I feel explosion is a fast way out if I'm wasting trick room turns and can get some damage off. Zen headbutt is a nice STAB to hit Amoonguss' if I feel it's best to stay in and hit. Stone edge completes the dual STAB, although it's dodgy accuracy always making me tear my hair out.

    The EV spread, that's a little iffy, some people suggest bulk (Which I find is absurb due to it's 70/85/65 defenses), so I just went for all out attack. I did give focus sash a mention as it will give you a guaranteed TR.

    Some calcs, although it is they're not really needed.

    252Atk Life Orb Solrock (+Atk) Zen Headbutt vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Amoonguss (Neutral): 93% - 110% (404 - 476 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 61% chance to OHKO.

    252Atk Life Orb Solrock (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Cacturne (Neutral): 82% - 97% (283 - 334 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252Atk Life Orb Solrock (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Torkoal (Neutral): 81% - 96% (282 - 332 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Hope this calcs prove most of the time you should explode out of there to a TR sweeper. Overall I did enjoy using Solrock for nostaglia reasons, it is one of the best 'mons to set up TR in the tier.
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