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Research Group #9 - Marowak, Pinsir, Miltank, Regice

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by DTC, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
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    Introduction:
    NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Group aids in helping explore the tier. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU.

    Some rules:

    • Be open-minded. Don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize.
    • Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them.
    • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
    • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the four Pokemon we are "researching". You'll be able to vote on what Pokemon you want the next Research Group right before it starts (out of a ballot that is determined by me)

    The four Pokemon that we will be looking into this Research Group are:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    How useful are these Pokemon in NU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #neverused/#pokemon as well!

    The Research Week Challenge:

    • Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team
    • Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 2000 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1850 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1700 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team. Note: this is for Glicko2. You must also have a deviation of 70.
    • Users will be expected to post their experiences with the Pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encountered while trying to make the said Pokemon work.
    • If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.
    In order to participate in the challenge, simply post here with a brand new alt. Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

    Research Week Hall of Fame (open)


    Gold Class: 2000+

    Silver Class: 1850-1999

    Bronze Class: 1700-1849



    Please include more substance in your posts than just "in" and what Pokemon you're using. What sets are you planning on using? What interests you about whatever Pokemon you're using? Remember: people who contribute a lot to Research Group will be listed on the hub page as an outstanding contributor for this Research Group.
  2. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Co-Leader

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    For the hall of fame, is it ACRE or glicko2? Also is there a deviation requirement?

    Regice is such a boss, ice moves are amazing right now - Rock Polish destroys teams!

    ill be using regice
  3. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

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    Glicko2 and a deviation of 70 or lower.
  4. Vileman

    Vileman

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
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    430
    Well, ill be doing this just for fun and maybie, who knows, i can reach a high ladder ranking. Using the four of them.
    edit: forgot to put the alt:vileresearch

    EDIT: At the moment i have a record of 22 wins and 6 loses with an ACRE of 1702 and glicko2 shows 1812 ± 78. The team, as said, has the 4 research pokes, but also has the amoongus core, that helps a lot on wish support and to cover most of the fighting types. When i have time ill post the team in depth But as a summarry i have mootility, a special tank regice, sub+3 attacks amrowak and scarf mold breaker pinsir (has caught off guard sturdy users a lot, also some levitate users with EQ.)

    EDIT 2: So, the team its the following, ill just give a brief analisis of every member, because to be honest im not very good at analising things and enlgish not being my first lenguage doesnt helps so i apologise if there are a lot of gramar, spelling etcetc errors:
    Show Hide
    Pinsir@choice scarf
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - X-Scissor
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    Mold breaker catches sturdy and levitate users off-guard but ill be trying using moxie. The SR weakness hurts a lot but the wish support helps. X-scissor hurts the dark and psichic pokes in the tier like absol, kadabra, musharna, gardevoir , beheeymen, etc. The rest of the move give general coverage, Close combat for steel, rock and normal types, Stone edge for flying pokes and EQ its mostly for emboar but also catches all electric types, including eelektross thanks to mold breaker. THe problem with pinsir its that it will mostly have a hard time switching in and after it gets a kill it will have to switch out, but thats very common to most scarfers anyways.

    Marowak @ Thick Club
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Earthquake
    - Double-Edge
    - Fire Punch
    Maroak hasnt been so usefull to my team tbh. It can get a substitute on fewe things, like torkoal who its slower. It does forces some switches to the likes of bastiodon and probopass but as said, its pretty limited. It does have nice Phisical bulk so it can tank some hits from fighting pokes and co to then proceed to KO them.
    Regice @ Leftovers
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rest
    Regice has been awsome, it can tank every special attacker i can remember, while hitting back hard with the appropiate move. Using rest without sleep talk ussually its stupid but it has milktank who can wake it up pretty easily altho they both share a fighting type weakness. The moves give neutral coverage to pretty much everything, and with a modest nature and 252 evs on spc attack it can hurt a lot of things on the switch in.

    Miltank (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Heal Bell
    - Milk Drink
    - Stealth Rock
    - Body Slam
    Mootility woorks very well for me, it can wall phisical attackers easily expect for fighting types, but those are covered with amoongus. It helps the whole team with heal bell, setting up stealth rocks and also paralising certain treats like cinccino with body slam.

    Amoonguss @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Def
    Bold Nature
    - Spore
    - Synthesis
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Giga Drain
    Amoongus its here pretty much to cover teh fighting types of NU who would otherwise hurt the whole team. I think everyone knows how it works, comes in, spores something and hurts water types if it can with giga drain.

    Alomomola @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 6 Atk
    Careful Nature
    - Wish
    - Toxic
    - Waterfall
    - Protect
    Alomomola helps with team with a very necesary wish supprt to the likes of marowak, pinsir and regice to cover the SR weakness and the lack of recovery. Dont really know why i made it specially defensive but it has fared well.
    And thats pretty much it, as a summarry: regice as aspecial tanks works awsomly, sub marowak its not so uch of my like, mootility its very hard to beat and helps the team quite easily and pinsir altho it has a hard time switching in it can revenge kill lot of things and hurts almost everything with its nice coverage.


    EDIT3: [​IMG] so yeah, got to bronze rank. I'll try to get to silver rank tho. (dont mind the ou matches, too lazy to change accounts lol)
  5. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

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    Ill be using RPRegi and MoxiePinsir and meybe the others if I have enough time.Expect this post to be updated when Im done testing.

    Alt: BANMAGIKARP
  6. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Banned deucer.

    Joined:
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    383
    Marowak: With a personal item in Thick Club that doubles his attack, it definitely should be feared. It is indeed a bit slow, but pairing it with a Trick Room user or a paralysis supporter can compensate for that. It hits really hard off the bat, and can wreck anything that fails to make it faint. A personal immunity to Thunder Wave and a resistance to Stealth Rock is really helpful for him. Although Marowak needs a bit of support to help him do his thing, he is an absolute menace that would be Ubers material with Speed Boost or Huge Power. I wish this guy got Head Smash and Rock Polish; he would be absolutely terrifying.

    The best set is the Substitute + 3 Attacks set, as Marowak has problems with durability. The set is simple: Set up Substitute on something seemingly harmless, like a Choice-locked Zebstrika, and let Marowak go on rampage. As for partners, fixing that speed is the best way to support it (Paralysis supporters like Natu/Lickilicky, etc.). There is no denying its horrible speed and a tad shaky defensive stats, but this thing's power is sick - watch this thing go on a rampage on paralyzed teams lacking Knock Off or Trick.
  7. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

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    using marowak and regice

    alt: nisemono

    edit: i just hit 70 deviation with a 2000+ glicko2 ranking!!!

    [​IMG]

    here is the team i used

    my team relied on marowak's ability to ko hazard users to support the rest of the team, especially regice. i had a really hard time if i couldn't ko the opponent's golem, gigalith, probopass, or other stealth rock users. everything is fairly bulky and hits hard, which isn't a surprise for those of you who are familiar with my play style. originally, i had tangela and musharna over skuntank and exeggutor, but that gave me a huge weakness to musharna if i couldn't win the cm war, so i put tangela and musharna into a blender and made exeggutor, which free'd up a team slot for skuntank. speaking of skuntank, it, in conjunction with kangaskhan, helps this team handle faster threats by bombarding them with priority. everything is quite slow, so this is extremely important. marowak is the bomb of the team, hitting everything extremely hard and 2hkoing pokemon like amoonguss, gurdurr, and piloswine, all of which are extremely bulky on the physical side. the two regis and exeggutor form the defensive core of the team. regice handles the water and grass types that give regirock trouble while regirock can switch into powerful fire attacks aimed at regice. both are weak to fighting, which is why exeggutor is needed. however, this makes me extremely weak to cb sawk and emboar if i predict incorrectly.

    as for the research week pokemon themselves, they both exceeded my expectations in almost every aspect. i'll list the sets and give an in depth analysis of each:

  8. KryptoKrunch

    KryptoKrunch

    Joined:
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    31
    I'm actually building a new team with Pinsir on it so this RP happened at a good time for me.

    I'll be using Moxie Pinsir with X-Scissor/Close Combat/Stone Edge/EQ. Pinsir is a dangerous offensive threat to the metagame and I'm surprised he's not used more often. Great all-around coverage moves backed by a great Attack stat and a great ability in Moxie(Mold Breaker is still good; can hit Elektross with a SE EQ). He also packs a good defensive stat. Adding to his good defensive stat he has key resistances to common Ground and Fighting type attacks.

    However, Pinsir does have a SR rock weakness, an average SpD stat and can be worn down easily(especially if LO is equipped). But I do think the pros outweigh the cons and I look forward to using Pinsir.

    Alt: Spin Dr.
  9. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

    Joined:
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    436
    K, I'm joining. I'll be using Moxie LO Pinsir, possibly paired with Speed Boost Ninjask. If I'm able to pass on a Sub + at least one Speed Boost to Pinsir, it may as well be a GG for the opponent.

    EDIT: Turns out my strategy was crap, as LO kills Pinsir too fast. I decided to switch Pinsir for Marowak.

    Alt: Crowbat. Previous Alt that I will always use: Normalize
  10. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    I've had experience with life orb rock polish Regice with focus blast, thunderbolt and ice beam, which is a surprise factor that can finish off team, especially if stealth rocks are removed. I also have used moxie sub pinsir, which is harder to use but easier to sweep with. That being said, I guess I will try Marowak and Miltank under Shuckleking14.
  11. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Ok, so I am only 17 battles in, but I have a 14-3 record after starting 5-3 (glicko2 deviation still too high). So my team consists of Marowak, Miltank, Serperior, Ninjask, Rotom-S and Samurott. The main objective of this team is to obviously get speed boosts, sword dances and/or substitutes to marowak to completely destroy teams. Here is the ideal three pokemon turn order that is the easiest way for this team's success.
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Samurott@Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    Evs: 4 HP/252 SpA/ 252 Speed
    Timid(+Speed -A) Nature
    -Taunt
    -Hydro pump
    -Ice beam
    -Hidden power grass

    For stealth rock leads that think they have a guarantee way to get up stealth rocks, especially sometimes at the risk of losing their sturdy, as two of my pokes get really hurt by stealth rocks. However, taunt forces them the next turn to switch out or go for an attacking move. If they stay in, they will get destroyed by a hydro pump (barring cradily, who will get hit by ice beams). Most leads are rock/ ground types that will go for either a rock or ground move. If I think they will go for the ground move, I switch into ninjask. If rock move, marowak. This poke brings so much momentum and puts so much pressure onto stealth rock users. Most stealth rock users will also stay in because they assume I am physical and can take 1 or 2 waterfalls (last month only about 20% of samurotts carried hyrdo pump).

    [​IMG]

    Ninjask@Leftovers
    Trait: Speed boost
    EVs: 248 HP/252 D/4 SD
    Bold (+D -A) Nature
    -Protect
    -Substitute
    -Swords Dance
    -Baton Pass

    Pretty standard set for Ninjask. You can say it's my physical wall as it resists bug, fighting, ground and grass moves. I do not run any speed ev's, meaning if swellow and I or any high speed scarfed pokemon is in, and I don't use protect, then I'm screwed. However, for in those and in most cases, protect will be the first move I use. I like the extra bulk on ninjask to take weak attacks. Otherwise, pretty much set up speed, sword dances and subs for marowak. Cinccino can be a problem obviously with rock blasts, however, rotom-s out speeds and kills while a baton pass into serperior can do significant damage and possibly kill depending if stealth rocks are up. I have not had any problems dealing with cinccino yet, as it is usually switched onto while I sub. The speed can be passed onto other pokes if I feel marowak isn't ready to sweep and repeat the process (as rocks have been up for maybe 2 or 3 of the games so far, which I am shocked that finding a way to get rocks up isn't a first priority).

    [​IMG]

    Marowak@Very Big Bone
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 4 HP/252 A/252 Speed
    Adament (+A -SA) Nature
    -Substitute
    -Boomerang
    -Stone Edge
    -Double Edge

    I'll show you what viable pokemon can take a +2 Attack hit from Marowak.
    -Tangela
    -Misdreavus
    -Torterra
    -Weezing
    -Alomomola
    -sub
    However, I would have to get at least one speed boost from ninjask, so I could 2HKO all of these pokes. Of course this is easier said then done, yet I have gotten probably at least 6, probably 8 sweeps with marowak. However, the order of what I would prefer Marowak to receive from Ninjask would be speed, then a sub, then attack. Marowak needs the speed to be effective, as while it has surprisingly decent 60/110/80 bulk, it would most likely exchange a kill for a kill or die to the popular grass/water/ice move. I choose boomerang over earthquake because marowak is carrying a dead pokemon's bone. That is bad ass, and I might as well use it. Also, it laughs at bastiodons that attempt to roar me away. The accuracy of the move is annoying, but has not caused me to lose marowak as a consequence. Double edge is a great high BP complement move, as they are the two moves I primarily use. I don't you stone edge that often, but when I do, I kill misdreavuses and haunters.

    Hypothetically, I hope to only use the three above pokes (actually I swept a team with my lead samurott). However, if marowak isn't as all mighty as he is, then here are the others.

    [​IMG]

    Miltank@Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs:252 HP/252 SD/4 Speed
    Careful (+SD -SA) Nature
    -Stealth Rocks
    -Milk Drink
    -Heal Bell
    -Body Slam

    Here is the other Research Group Poke. While it really doesn't stand out, it serves the big importance of an ice resists. Even though ice moves are not that common (especially with STAB), it is not to have a resistance to a move that 4 pokes are weak to (probably not the best team building idea). It's also a poke that gets up stealth rocks, which is really not a top priority for this team as marowak can hit through sturdy that would otherwise give sawk a field day and I have pokes that can deal with flying types. Milk drink is a must for longevity and because it's a cow. What else would cows drink (well, water, but still..). Heal bell is there because it just should be, though I've really only used it when I miltank was statused. Probably another move cold fulfill its place (toxic/punishment/seismic toss?). I am still a huge fan of lickilicky, however, miltank's ice resistance is a big plus, and I am a fan of miltank's speed. Overall a very decent poke.

    [​IMG]

    Serperior@Leftovers
    Trait:Overgrow
    EVs:64 HP/252 SA/192 Speed
    Timid(+Speed -A)
    -Substitute
    -Calm Mind
    -Giga Drain
    -Dragon Pulse

    The last poke to place on my team. I had the top four initial core pokes that I wanted to use, so I knew I needed a scarfed poke that can outrun +2 timid Gorebyss and another poke. I really wanted another Attacking pokemon, but I also wanted a secondary set-up poke. I suppose Arbok, Gurdurr or Torterra could fit under this category, but i figured that all of the attack that I need really comes from marowak. This serperior set is great to use and is a good recipient from ninjask. On smogon, it says that serperior needs 196 speed to outspeed max 105's, however, 192 does the same, and I get 1 extra HP out of it. But basically set up a couple calm minds, sub to avoid status and sweep from there. It usually works for this team, though it is also the most expendable.

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-S@Choice Scarf
    Trait:Levitate (of course)
    EVs:252 SA/4 SD/ 252 Speed
    Timid (+Speed -A)
    -Air Slash
    -Thunderbolt
    -Volt Switch
    -Trick

    Arguably the best scarfer in NU. Pretty standard stuff. Volt Switch on pokes afraid of Trick to gain momentum(which is very important for this team), thunderbolt to give consistent and high damage while staying in (can also help with sub bulk up braviary, though I haven't encountered one yet) and air slash for grass types. This poke probably sees the least amount of playing time as it is more of an insurance case than anything, and samurott is my preferred early game momentum getter. This poke also outspeeds all sawks and swellow, which is also very handy. Its stealth rock weakness is evident though when it does appear on the field.

    So there's my team so far. I don't know if I should post this as an RMT, as it is already a long post, but any suggestions would be huge.
    -Hidden power grass or grass knot for samurott?
    -The little speed worth it for Ninjask?
    -Should heal bell come off miltank (most likely not)?
    -A potential poke to replace Serperior?
  12. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

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    Good job on the peak, FLCL. All of your points on Marowak and Regice were very accurate. I especially agreed with what you said regarding hazards vs Regice: Regice is overall a solid Pokemon, but hazards really cut its life short and make it much harder to beat the threats it is supposed to beat.

    I have already used Marowak / Regice a lot, so I am going to be testing Pinsir / Miltank this Research Group. Over the past few days I have accumulated ~20 battles with Pinsir so I will talk about it for now.

    Now, before I say anything else, let me tell you that whenever I used Pinsir in the past, I was always disappointed by it. Reason for that? Probably because I looked at its performance in a vacuum. I did not give Pinsir that much of a chance, and threw it away after a few battles. Now that I have given Pinsir more of a chance, it has exceeded my expectations of it. It is actually a pretty good Pokemon.

    During my playtesting, I used:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Pinsir @ Life Orb
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Swords Dance
    - X-scissor
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge

    Pretty good coverage overall, but it misses out on Golurk and does underwhelming damage to most Poison-types. Anyways, that coverage comes in handy in a lot of situations. When Pinsir gets going, it is hard to stop. If it manages to set up a Swords Dance, which is not that hard to set up considering Pinsir's physical bulk is above average, and you have a slow team, you are in a lot of trouble. I remember smashing FLCL's Research Group team because he did not have anything to stop Pinsir. Regirock got smashed by a +2 Close Combat. Moxie was not as useful as I thought it would be. It was not useful because most of the time I either switched right out after I killed something or Pinsir did not need the Moxie boost to sweep the team. Regardless, overall, Moxie would still have been more useful than any of its other abilities in my playtesting. I think I am about done with using Pinsir; I have established in my mind that it is a pretty good Pokemon that I would use again. Maybe I will test some other options on it like Substitute or Stealth Rock.

    Here is the team I used:

    Alomomola weak (open)

    Pinsir @ Life Orb
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - X-Scissor
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge

    Alomomola @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Scald
    - Toxic

    Emboar @ Choice Band
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Superpower
    - Head Smash
    - Sleep Talk

    Skuntank @ Dread Plate
    Trait: Aftermath
    EVs: 252 Atk / 220 SDef / 36 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Taunt

    Golem @ Ground Gem
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Sucker Punch

    Braviary @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Return
    - Superpower
    - U-turn


    Now time to use that fat cow.
  13. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    60 Shuckleking14 1767 79.3 1852 ± 60
    Don't know have to copy directly onto here. Not my best team, but it was so much fun to use.

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