Research Group Mk II #1 - See OP for Details

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by kokoloko, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. kokoloko

    kokoloko I fill the bag.
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    Hello, fellow UUers.

    As you know, BW2 has caused a ton of shakeups in UU, so to celebrate that, we're going to reform the Research Group! Here's what's new:

    • First, we're moving the challenges to the Pokemon Showdown ladder. Because the ladder system is still messed up there, I'm going to base the winner on who has the best win/loss ratio (with a minimum of 25 battles) instead of who has the highest ranking. Once the ranking system is fixed, it'll go back to normal.
    • The first few groups will contain 5 Pokemon each, as the new metagame has a ton of unexplored threats.

    Other than that, same old same old.

    Old Research Group Mk I threads:

    #1 | #2 | #3 | #4 | #5 | #6

    Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:

    • Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
    • Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
    • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
    • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Like I said before, feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

    Research Group Mk II #1

    [pimg]132[/pimg][pimg]590[/pimg][pimg]493[/pimg][pimg]650[/pimg][pimg]621[/pimg]
    Ditto | Scrafty | Cresselia | Mienshao | Amoonguss​


    How useful are these Pokemon in UU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #genvuu as well!

    The Research Group Challenge:

    In order to participate you must do the following:

    • Send me a PM / post here or on IRC with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
    • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
    • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!

    The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the best win/loss ratio with a minimum of 25 battles on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends. If you win, you will receive temporary hops on #genvuu, but you may only claim your prize if you actually participated in the discussion!

    Current Participants:

    Forum Name - Ladder Alt

    DetroitLolcat - Lolcat
    Mew - Amoonguss
    RT. - Fijina
    Molk - Bad UU Team
    FlareBlitz - Doppelflareger
    kokoloko - Naraku
    TSTEF - TESTSTEF
    Mafeking - Burnout
    Pokemazter - Afterburners
    PsYch071c - Psychotic_
    Reaver12 - UUftw
    Silvershadow234 - Silver Shadow
    Ace Emerald - i4tzyz
    Diatom - RU METANG
    hilarious - pogeymawnisfun
    TPO3 - Teapot
    Noblesse Oblige - Lindberg
    Iluvkyogre - Iluvkyogre
    SOMALIA - AdmiralAkainu
    D4RR3N - Wedding Dress
    Arc Tech - Not Chosen One
    hobo bob - Tipsy_Gnostalgic
    Wobbanaut - WobbanautResearch_
  2. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Ann ArborLolcat
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    My alt is Lolcat (wow I can't believe I haven't played any UU under that name on PS!)

    I will own all of you with my Mienshao of Death because Mienshao is a catmon.
  3. Mew

    Mew

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    I'm going to try Amoonguss out mainly, but also Ditto and Scrafty (all three even on the same team xD).

    I'm going to ladder under the alt Amoonguss.
  4. Nas

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    Fijina hasn't decided what to use yet
  5. Molk

    Molk Trop Ur A Faget
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    Trying out scrafty and mienshao under Bad UU team

    ive tried them out a bit already and theres are my thoughts on them so far.

    bulk up scrafty is a badass even with heracross and crobat in the tier, it sets up on a surprising amount of things, including but not limited to Slowbro, non band snorlax, gligar, porygon2, Dusclops, and Empoleon. It is incredibly hard to take down without a powerful fighting type move at +1 (crobat brave bird only did like 48% after a boost). Most importantly, it happens to set up on a lot of mienshaos checks such as bulky ghosts, slowbro/king, and gligar (although mienshao can deal with it itself with some prior damage.

    I have faced and used mienshao a bit, and its been pretty impressive as both an opponent and a teammate. U-turn and regenerator combine to make an excellent scout with a deadly offensive presence, and the possibilities with baton pass are interesting, including subpassing without losing any hp! Swords Dance mienshao is a really good wallbreaker imo, its HJK OHKOs anything that doesnt resist it at +2, and gligar is easily taken care of by hasty hidden power ice after almost any prior damage. Just remove its checks with something like pursuit or a scrafty and your good to go.
  6. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Alt: Doppelflareger

    Using ditto. And maybe other things, who knows.
  7. TSTEF

    TSTEF

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    Holy Crap... Five Mons. TESTSTEF is probably what ill use. And idk who ill pick so yeah.
  8. Mafeking

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    Gonna be trying Cressy out under the alt Burnout on PS :3

    and Mienshao possibly I suppose
  9. Mazz

    Mazz Underused Project Manager
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    Pokemazter - Afterburners

    Using Scrafty.
  10. Psychotic

    Psychotic There's one life, one love so there can only be one King
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    Alt: Psychot1c
    Using Scrafty.

    Edit: I forgot that I already played like 10 games on that alt. The alt i will be using is Psychotic_ .
  11. Reaver12

    Reaver12

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    Gonna be using Scrafty and Cress. Seem like they pair pretty nicely
  12. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    I'll be trying out Scrafty under the alt Silver Shadow.
  13. Ace Emerald

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    Testing at least 1 thing, probably multiple. So much good stuff!
  14. Diatom

    Diatom An enigma
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    I'll use amoonguss and mienshao.

    Alt: RU METANG
  15. hilarious

    hilarious

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    May I enter under the name pogeymawnisfun?
  16. Diatom

    Diatom An enigma
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    Ok, I know it hasn't been a long time, but here are some first impressions:

    Mienshao: This thing has been, quite frankly, underwhelming. I've been using a somewhat unorthodox set of HJK/SE/SD/BP with a life orb, as HJK and SE get all the coverage you need, but it dies to anything with priority or scarved. Really, the best things it's done is baton passed SDs to Weavile.

    Amoonguss: This, on the other hand, has been awesome. Spore is a complete godsend to this thing, as it WILL take something out of the fight, allowing Weavile to get a SD in and start sweeping things. Clear Smog is great with all the boosting sweepers around. I've been using a specially defensive Amoonguss, and it forms a great core with Slowbro. Slowbro tanks the powerful physical hits, and even a +1 Crunch from Scrafty and proceeds to T-Wave stuff, while Amoonguss takes special hits, and proceeds to Spore or Toxic something. Not to mention that anything that can't do more than 35% damage to either Amoonguss or Slowbro (Machamp and opposing Mienshao come to mind), will get infinitely stalled due to repeated switching, without even using any PP. Definitely UU-worthy.
  17. Psychotic

    Psychotic There's one life, one love so there can only be one King
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    If you guys are using a Baton Passing set then you are doing it wrong. Scarf Mienshao is the single best revenge killer in the tier right now. It is way better than Flygon, who lacks power and is walled by a ton of shit, and better than scarf Fire types who die in 4 turns just by switching in to Stealth Rock. It is one of the best lategame cleaners out there, and if you pair it with a Pursuit user you can destroy a lot of teams. It can also outspeed and revenge kill scarf Flygon, which is a huge plus. Regenerator means that it can U-Turn at will and not worry about taking repeated hazard damage. It 1HKOs most offensive mons and 2HKO's many walls with hazard support, meaning opposing teams will struggle to wall this beast. Sure, Flygon has some nifty resistances, but the sheer power of Mienshao outclasses Flygon any day. It also revenges +2 DD Scrafty, which by itself can be good enough reason to use it.

    In summary: Fuck Flygon, use Mienshao
  18. Nas

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    I've been using Mienshao as a wallbreaker, in conjunction with Scarf Heracross. Mienshao and Heracross share a lot of the same counters, so Mienshao can effectively weaken/ko most of Hera's counters early/mid-game and open up a moxie sweep.

    I don't like the idea of being locked into Hi Jump Kick with Cofagrigus gaining as much popularity as it is. Cofag doesn't even mind most pursuit users, and can just stay in and set up a Trick Room. Also, as long as your opponent's ghost is still alive, you have to worry about your Mienshao losing half of its health every time it tries to revenge kill something, or the opponent boosting again if you U-Turn.
  19. Noblesse Oblige

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  20. Iluvkyogre

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    Scraft and Cressellia
  21. SOMALIA

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    Miehsnao
  22. D4RR3N

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    Mienshao
  23. Mew

    Mew

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    I started using Amoonguss, but after about 40 games, I was not satisfied. The wins I got were not thanks to Amoonguss, but thanks to Slowbro and the rest of the team. The only thing I learned about using Amoonguss is that Spore is an awesome move, but sadfully a complete waste on a Pokemon like our mushroomy friend.

    I then started to use Scrafty, which has won me several games by itself. It is a huge threat early game, but even greater late-game. People just sacrifice their Fighting-type Pokemon to Crobat or Bulky attackers without thinking about Scrafty.

    My conclusion is that a SubDD set is the best for Scrafty, as it really needs speed to pose a big threat. Bulk Up variants are just not strong enough after even 2 boosts because of lack in speed and even being susceptible to WoW with Shed Skin. Scald can just burn before Scrafty moves and the attack is still halved.
  24. Silvershadow234

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    SubDD sounds pretty good. Scrafty can only really sweep when he has 2 or more DD, and a Sub blocks the status. I use Lum Berry generally, but I'm going to have to try this set out. Loses against Gligar, but that's just one Pokemon-and you can always use Ice Punch Rhyperior as a lure to eliminate him.
  25. Mazz

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    A +4 SubDD Scrafty gets a 2HKO on Gligar with Crunch. So while your opponent may think that they happen to be walling you, it's no big deal really. So running Moxie on it would be a hell of an idea, as you can get 2-3 boosts, wreck hell on a team, and use the supplimentary boosts to shit on Gligar. Although running Ice Punch as a slash-in beside Crunch is acceptable, as between Ice Punch and Drain Punch / HJK, Victini and Qwilfish are the only things that require Crunch. After enough boosts, neither of them are going to want to take the STAB move to the face. Anywho, my take on Scrafty;

    [​IMG]
    Thugnificent, I'd say

    Scrafty | Life Orb
    Jolly Nature | Shed Skin
    4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
    Dragon Dance | Drain Punch | Crunch | Ice Punch

    -Initially underwhelming
    -Fighting types need to be off the field for Scrafty to be effective. If outsped, just falls to a SE STAB move
    -Appreciates full hazard support or removal of the Bulky Waters
    -Paralysis support welcome

    I'll admit, even I over-hyped this thing. It's not as immediately strong as I had thought it would be in a new metagame, and even after 2 boosts, it's horribly slow. I have never in my tenure playing this game seen so many Choice Scarf Pokemon outspeed a Pokemon with 2 Dragon Dances under its belt. However, 3 or more boosts, as hard as it may be to find time to set something like that up, makes Scrafty scary lethal. Like shank you in an alley at 2am scary. With that kind of speed, firepower, and coverage, everything available to UU is 2HKO'd, with a majority of that list getting OHKO'd. Scrafty is definitely a Pokemon that has found a home in UU, and should be an excellent addition to this wonderful tier.

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