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Research Group Mk. II #2 - See OP for Details

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by kokoloko, Jul 17, 2012.

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  1. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    Hello, fellow UUers.

    As you know, BW2 has caused a ton of shakeups in UU, so to celebrate that, we're going to reform the Research Group! Here's what's new:

    • First, we're moving the challenges to the Pokemon Showdown ladder. Because the ladder system is still messed up there, I'm going to base the winner on who has the best win/loss ratio (with a minimum of 25 battles) instead of who has the highest ranking. Once the ranking system is fixed, it'll go back to normal.
    • The first few groups will contain 5 Pokemon each, as the new metagame has a ton of unexplored threats.

    Other than that, same old same old.

    Past Research Group Mk I threads:

    #1 | #2 | #3 | #4 | #5 | #6


    Past Research Group Mk II threads:

    #1


    Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:

    • Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
    • Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
    • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
    • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Like I said before, feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

    Research Group Mk II #2

    [pimg]254[/pimg][pimg]34[/pimg][pimg]178[/pimg][pimg]435[/pimg][pimg]653[/pimg]
    Sceptile | Nidoking | Xatu | Honchkrow | Golurk​


    How useful are these Pokemon in UU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #genvuu as well!

    The Research Group Challenge:

    In order to participate you must do the following:

    • Send me a PM / post here or on IRC with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
    • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
    • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!

    The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the best win/loss ratio with a minimum of 25 battles on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends. If you win, you will receive temporary hops on #genvuu, but you may only claim your prize if you actually participated in the discussion!

    Current Participants:

    Forum Name - Ladder Alt

    PsYch071c - MeanGreenQueen
    Espo - Parazone
    RT. - TheRiddler
    Pokemazter - Afterburnt
    TSTEF - mofokro
    DetroitLolcat - El Lolgato
    Noblesse Oblige - She
    Silvershadow234 - Silver Shadow
    Stormsire - Parametric
    DestinyUnknown - Buse.
    The Ttar - The Matter
    Mew - Honchkrow
    Arc Tech - Arc Tech
    FlareBlitz - MafiaFlare
    Icey The King Of ice - IceyTest
  2. Psychotic

    Psychotic Foulest thing about time; it still ticks when you gone
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    Sceptile <3 GG NO RE

    Alt: MeanGreenQueen
  3. Espo

    Espo

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    Nidoking and (maybe) Honchkrow.

    Alt: Parazone
  4. Nas

    Nas I bring the drama
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    Nidoking and Sceptile

    Actually I'll be laddering on TheRiddler
  5. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    Erm, Sceptile for sure.

    Might try the others.

    Afterburnt
  6. TSTEF

    TSTEF

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    HONCHKROW<3

    alt: mofokro
  7. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
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    I can has Nidoking? And probably quite a few others as they're all pretty good.

    Alt: El Lolgato
  8. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige

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    Honchkrow and maybe others.

    Alt: She
  9. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    Will be trying out Honchkrow

    Alt: Silver Shadow
  10. Stormsire

    Stormsire

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    I will be using Honchkrow and Nidoking.

    Alt - Parametric

    Scratch that, probably just Honchkrow.
  11. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    I've been trying out both Honchkrow and Nidoking,and have been having great results.

    Nidoking has incredible coverage-and is in my opinion the very best special sweeper. Such immense power-I don't now what it doesn't 2HKO frankly. I've been running Ice Beam/Fire Blast/Focus Blast/Earth Power and it is incredibly good at smashing physical walls and luring out special walls for the rest of the team to set-up on.

    Honchkrow hasn't got as much love from me as Nidoking, but is still very, very good if played properly. Moxie plus Sucker Punch/Brave Bird turns him into a terrifying threat-and now has the ability to take out rock and steel types as well. Obviously, Rhyperior is out of the question but Superpower gives perfect coverage I think with Sucker Punch and Brave Bird.

    I've been using these two on a HO team-which is where Honchkrow really shines. It may have terrible defenses, but dual screens from Azelf/Bronzong/Xatu(I prefer Azelf, but the other two have their uses)allow him to survive a hit or two if need be.

    If you wanted too, you could probably use them in a great offensive core. Not only does Nidoking smash around Rhyperior-89% to 1HKO the tank Rhyperior on the strategy dex-but Nidoking and Honchkrow have excellent typing synergy. Nidoking can switch into rock and fighting and electric moves for Honchkrow, while Honchkrow can switch into Earthquake's. Sure, there is a water weakness not covered by either, but a Roserade or Kingdra easily solves that problem.

    I'm not using Xatu currently, but I have used him previously in the BW2 metagame. Xatu has better bulk than you'd think, but on a HO team Azelf works so much better due to better speed and Stealth Rock. He's a decent counter to Roserade-Spikes and Sleep Powder and Toxic Spikes are bounced back and Zatu resists grass-and makes a good U-turn user on dedicated VoltTurn teams. He can become setup bait though very quickly-especially against Substitute users like Scrafty, where Thunder Wave or Toxic is useless.
  12. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    Alt: Buse.

    Going to use everything bar xatu probably, lol
  13. The Ttar

    The Ttar

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    alt: The Matter

    Honchkrow
  14. Mew

    Mew

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    I'll be trying out Honchkrow under the alt Honchkrow.
  15. Arc Tech

    Arc Tech

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    Alt: Arc Tech (The PS ladder is getting reset when it comes back up right?)

    Too bad about the last round getting messed up.

    I've actually been running sceptile as an SD sweeper. His speed is nice, right at the spot where all I fear is scarfers and crobat (and the occasional weavile, but they were somewhat rare and handled by my team). Surprisingly good coverage, but frailty is an issue. If they have a priority user (even azumarill thanks to LO recoil), you can't even really afford a neutral hit from a wall.

    I was actually planning to make a team around nidoking next, so I'll report how it goes.
  16. Stormsire

    Stormsire

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    So I've been playing a bit with Honchkrow, and he has just been demolishing teams. I've been running a wallbreaker-sweeper setup of Machamp/Heracross/Honchkrow, with the double moxie allowing me to sweep out of nowhere at any time, and Machamp tears through unprepared teams anyway. I must say its been performing excellently, and strategy of 'press attacks whilst not giving a damn' is simple yet effective.

    As far as Honchkrow's solo performance, I've found that he can consistently just tear an even slightly wounded team apart. Sucker Punch and Pursuit make some very entertaining mindgames, and make it easy for me to pick up the first Moxie boost, after which the snowball effect takes over.

    The set I've been running for Honchkrow is a bit unconventional, but it's really just an all-out 4 attacks beatdown set.

    Honchkrow @ Life Orb
    Moxie
    EVs: 252 ATK/4 Sp.DEF/252 SPE
    Naughty Nature (+ATK - Sp.DEF)
    ~Brave Bird
    ~Sucker Punch
    ~Pursuit
    ~Heat Wave/Superpower

    I've been switching between Superpower and Heat Wave, and frankly, I'm not sure what's better. For the moment, I think it's Superpower, since the main steels I want to get past - Registeel, Bronzong, Empoleon - don't take too much from an uninvested Heat Wave, whereas a +1 Superpower might bring down a weakened one. Heat Wave only really helps against Steelix, but you practically never see those. It might give me a stat drop, but the Moxie boost makes up for it, and it's usually worth the power you get. It even lets me run Adamant nature, but that's a minor boost.

    --

    I've also been running Support Xatu on my teams, and he does a decent job, but nothing particularly special. Against some teams he just blanks, but against others he can completely shut them down. Good prediction lets me bounce an entry hazard or two, but ultimately the fact that 1) He isn't as bulky as you want him to be and 2) He has no real way to threaten opponents makes him niche at best. Perhaps the Calm Mind or Dual Screens versions are better, but the Support set just does seems to do nothing half the time. That being said, the ability to just wreck stall teams (if you ever see one of those), or even just shut down problematic mons like Sableye makes him worth considering, but not a must-check mon. All in all, he can be good, but isn't my cup of tea, and fits on some specific teams.
  17. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Yeah I'm doing this. Honchkrow and Nidoking. Alt will be MafiaFlare.
  18. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    Now would be a good time for people to start posting some results :)
  19. Icey The King Of ice

    Icey The King Of ice

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    Aww it seems golurk is getting no love. ): i guess ill try him out.(:
    Alt will be IceyTest
  20. Zarco

    Zarco

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    I'm personally a big fan of physically defensive Xatu, it works well with Empoleon, too. Just pack something to take tbolts and you have a good core. It's a competent wish passer, can take on Roserade/Hitmontop/Sableye/Hera, and is pretty cool overall.

    I've recently been experimenting with a support/tank Golurk with SR/EQ/Ice Punch/Shadow Punch. I'm using Max HP/Atk adamant, but I might shift to a defensive spread. It's a very good poke vs. Mienshao and Heracross, for one, and is an all-around bulky and strong tank with great coverage provided you can predict well.
  21. Nas

    Nas I bring the drama
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    I’ve been using Nidoking a lot recently, though as a SR setter and with a Modest nature. I never found Timid very useful on Nidoking since most Heracross are Moxie Scarfers nowadays and Chandelure rarely uses a Timid nature unless it’s scarfed. Modest adds a noticeable punch to Nidoking’s attacks as well; you can reliably OHKO Bronzong and Zapdos leads with Fire Blast and Ice Beam, respectively. It also turns some would-be 3HKOs into 2HKOs against tanks like Suicune and Porygon2.
  22. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
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    Nidoking's still the same King we all know and love even with the addition of BW2 tutors. However, the metagame has been kind to the king, as he no longer needs four attacks to get the coverage he used to need. The best set, in my opinion, is this:

    Nidoking @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sheer Force
    Nature: Timid
    EVs lotsa spa and spe
    -Earth Power
    -Stealth Rock
    -Focus Blast
    -Ice Beam

    Now that the new walls of UU are Snorlax and Porygon2 (thanks, Chandelure!), Nidoking needs to run Focus Blast so it doesn't get walled. However, Nidoking gets more than acceptable coverage with three attacks, not needing Thunderbolt as Earth Power hits Waters hard enough. This is because bulky Waters are significantly weaker in UU, with the two best being Blastoise and Swampert. Earth Power hits Blastoise hard enough and does nothing to Swampert, so the electricity coverage is unneeded. Stealth Rock is nice on Nidoking since he forces lots of switches and will probably get the chance to set it up once during a match.

    Fire Blast is a great alternative here over Stealth Rock if your team has trouble with Bronzong.

    I find that Nidoking is a very unique Pokemon in the UU tier because of his unparalleled Special coverage and power. For that reason, Nidoking can function on just about any offensive team besides Hyper Offense (which prefers set-up sweepers, of course), so teammates aren't that big a deal for him. Hell, he doesn't even need a Stealth Rock supporter since he can lay down rocks himself. Nidoking is perfect for offensive teams that need a little extra firepower since his typing doesn't really do him any favors or misdeeds defensively. Nidoking isn't OHKO'd by a lot of things, but 2KO'd by just about everything, so typing isn't a huge deal for him on the defensive side.

    I've been using him on an offensive team with Double Electric coverage, and it's been pretty successful. Nidoking doesn't do a lot in terms of synergy, but he almost doesn't have to. Nothing likes switching into Nidoking, so he barely needs to worry about getting walled unless it's by Bronzong. I've also used the lauded Choice Band Crobat set, which draws out Electrics like Zapdos and Raikou. Raikou sets up on the thunderbird, while Nidoking laughs at Zapdos.
  23. Ashley11

    Ashley11

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    I will try golurk and probaly Honchkrow.
  24. AlexanderTheGreat

    AlexanderTheGreat

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    I use sceptile and golurk
    Alt: ZapDS
  25. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    Congratulations on winning the Research Group Challenge, RT..

    You already have hops on #genvuu, so you get nothing!

    Anyway, I'll leave this open for a couple more days in case anyone wants to post final results and I'll be opening a new one later today.
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