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Research Week #10 - Bastiodon, Rampardos, Glaceon, Leafeon

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by erisia, May 15, 2012.

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  1. erisia

    erisia former global moderator™
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Nov 29, 2011
    NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Week aids in helping explore the tier, and is especially effective right now as NU is relatively balanced. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU.

    Some rules:
    -Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize!
    -Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them.
    -Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
    -Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 4 Pokemon we are "researching". Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect the next research week to have all the Pokemon you suggested, or any of them.

    This week we're going back to Sinnoh and looking at some of the genetic mysteries we can find there. From dusty fossils to mutant mammals, there's plenty of forgotten relics that are worth digging up and petting respectively. No descriptions this week; it's up to you to find the best niches for these pokemon in the current metagame!:

    The Research Week Challenge:

    • Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team
    • Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 1400 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1325 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1250 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team.
    • Users will be expected to post their experiences with the pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encountered while trying to make the said pokemon work.
    • If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.
    In order to participate in the challenge, simply post here with a brand new alt. Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

    Don't forget you're not just limited to this topic to discuss these Pokemon, I encourage you to talk about them on the #neverused irc chat as well! At the end of the week I hope we can reach a general consensus on how good these Pokemon really are, and maybe we might find some interesting discoveries.

    One person will get chosen as the Research Week Champion for this week. This will be decided by me; the person who ladders the most and contributes to the research week discussion the most will get temporary Half Op status on #neverused and they will potentially get a few other perks! I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THE DISCUSSION THAT COMES OUT OF THIS!

    Research Week Hall of Fame (open)

    Gold Class: 1400+
    Silver Class: 1325-1399
    Bronze Class: 1250-1324

    1259 -- unstoppable (breh) -- Rampardos
    1255 -- smashing heads (Full2Half) -- Rampardos

    As I'm in charge of this HOF, it actually will be updated, unlike the last one. :)

    Also, please add some more substance to your post other than "alt: x, using x". Feel free to theorymon a bit about the 'mons.

    Or they'll have a bone to pick with you.
  2. Full2Half


    Dec 18, 2011
    Im going to try rampardos and POSSIBLY glaceon and/or leafeon

    Alt: Smashing Heads

    Interesting to see rampardos here, as it will likely be one of, if not the, best things this week. I love it's ability to smash through everything with one of the game's highest attack stats. Mold breaker is also great, especially with stuff like cryogonal running around.
  3. TROP

    TROP ur a faget
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Apr 6, 2011
    Bastiodon sucks and it is a sitting duck that will do nothing besides maybe setting up rocks, and for Leafeon why am I not using Sawsbuck instead?.

    So Rampardos is my chosen one this time because he is manly as fuck and can greatly damage almost everything, also Mold Breaker is cool to stop those Sturdy leads and have more than enough movepool to fuck whatever tries to come in against it, ohkoing Garbodor is also nice. Why doesn't this get Ice punch? ;_;, I wanted to fuck Torterra too.

    Alt:Trop Dino alt v2

    Edit:Cool, Rampardos can still ohko offensive Torterra with Ice beam and LO.
    Edit 2: After thinking about it a bit more using Glaceon too, while she might not be as scary as she was when Snow Warning is around she still looks like a decent mon to use and even with Timid she is nearly as strong as Modest Jynx while having the utility to revenge some really dangerous threats and possibly giving another mon in the team a time to come in safely in a predicted switch with Baton Pass, only wish her movepool was better but is enough and with Rampardos preventing most Stealth Rock/Spikes attempt she might have an easier time to come in.
  4. Raseri

    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 4, 2007
    Rampardos has already been proven good so I'll use that, as well as possibly Glaceon as teams have seem less prepared for powerful ice moves with the addition of Jynx.

    alt: Raseri Two
  5. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken underdog of the year
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Oct 7, 2011

    I was planning on using Leafeon. The big question w/ Leafeon is "what sets it apart from Sawsbuck?" Saws gets a Normal-type STAB, the ability to bypass Sucker Punches with Nature Power, recovery w/ Horn Leech, slightly higher Special Defense, and Sap Sipper. On the other hand, Leafeon has slightly higher Attack, much better Defense, and Wish. It's arguable that Leafeon could pull off a BP set better, since it hardly needs to worry about coverage (to be more specific, it -has- no coverage) so it can pass off Subs and whatnot. One thing to note is that they both have the same base Speed and Chlorophyll - is it worth pairing Leafeon with say Charizard on a sun team? Leafeon can switch in and scare off Golems and such while Charizard fucks up everything else... idk, just theorymonning. It seems like the only real role that Leafeon can have that isn't completely outclassed by Sawsbuck is a defensive set with Wish and/or Heal Bell... without those, it's even outclassed by Tangela. u_u
  6. erisia

    erisia former global moderator™
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Nov 29, 2011
    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you're supposed to be answering that. -_-

    I think that a bulky SD set could do pretty well, as it has less weaknesses and better physical bulk than Sawsbuck. Swords Dance / Leaf Blade / X-Scissor or Baton Pass / Synthesis with a 252 HP / 200 Atk / 56 Spe Adamant spread seems cool, if you pack a cleric or status absorber. It outspeeds max Adamant Samurott and hits it with Leaf Blade before it can strike back with Megahorn. In Sun, it beats out Scarf Haunter, which is pretty much the fastest pokemon you should be trying to outrun. Alternatively, you can use Def EVs and an Impish nature to become more tanky, á la Shelgon.
  7. DTC

    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnus

    May 8, 2011
    Leafeon and Sawsbuck are quite different. Leafeon has better Attack, a stronger Grass STAB (it not healing you kind of sucks), better Defense, and moves such as Wish and Heal Bell. It's also nice not being weak to Fighting.

    Swords Dance sets aren't outclassed by Sawsbuck - they take a different approach. I'm considering using Swords Dance / Synthesis / Leaf Blade / Frustration. It'd work as a bulky booster, obviously. Just because it doesn't have STAB normal, Horn Leech, Sap Sipper, and Nature Power doesn't mean it's outclassed. Play to its strengths.

    Let's not be narrow-minded here; that won't accomplish much. Explore the options!
  8. elchupo


    Jul 13, 2009
    Alt: Bastille

    Mons: Going to test all to various degrees.

    I think Bastiodon gets a bad rep. It is one of my favourite Pokemon, design wise, so believe me when I say that I was more than a little disappointed to find it that it isn't the competitive behemoth its look suggests.

    I've always said that it's trump card over Probopass is Roar. It can set up rocks and roar all day long. It's incredibly infuriating for the opponent to be constantly shuffled when the majority of the time they can only attack for neutral or resist damage before being shuffled out again.
  9. Straw Hat

    Straw Hat

    Mar 5, 2011
    alt: Strawbat
    testing rampardos
  10. FLCL

    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Mar 14, 2010
    Alt: how to go

    Using Glaceon and Rampardos.

    Glaceon looks like it could do some serious damage with a Specs set since it is tied for the strongest Ice Beam in the game. It seems like a bad idea because of Glaceon's horrible coverage but in reality the only attacks it's going to be using are Ice Beam and HP Ground.

    Rampardos has already proven itself as a premier wall-breaker and Stealth Rock preventer. It has the potential to form a deadly attacking duo with Glaceon.
  11. erisia

    erisia former global moderator™
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Nov 29, 2011
    Hmmm, I wonder whether this core would work on a Trick Room team with something like OTR Musharna, and Marowak as an anti-Golem SR lead. Seems like it could work, and the viability of Trick Room within the tier could do with exploring.
  12. Molk

    Molk Godlike Usmash
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnus
    RU Co-Leader

    Jul 27, 2011
    alt:Koalas r 2 strong

    Pokemon used: Glaceon

    choice specs glaceon may not be the fastest thing in the world, and its switch ins are limited by stealth rock, but it cannot be doubted that its actually nery hard to switch into, especially if you use blizzard (i use blizzard AND ice beam, get at me).

    ill post some calcs in a second
  13. DittoCrow

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Mar 15, 2010
    alt: eonleaf
    Pokemon: Leafeon (atm)

    Leafeon seems cool because it has interesting stats. 110 Atk, 130 Def, and 95 Speed is certainly unique. Instead of using and offensive set, I'm going to try a more defensive set. Heal Bell and Wish are really rare moves, especially Heal Bell. My Pokemon get inflicted with status 98% of my matches, and Heal Bell support is always really good. I think Leafeon will have a unique niche as a defensive supporter.
  14. Steamroll

    Steamroll MRW
    is a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jan 1, 2011
    alt: Rampardos
    Pokemon: take a guess!

    Rampardos has an interesting case with really frail defenses and a godly attack stat that rivals pokemon placed in Ubers. Its speed is rather bad, but god damn anything that tries to switch in will definitely die. Really the biggest thing about Rampardos is the lack of speed, I mean you can patch it with a Choice Scarf, Rock Polish or Trick Room.

    Rampardos is still going to have trouble with three things:

    1) Tangela: Rampardos needs to have Ice Beam in order to attempt to 2hko it (adamant nature + 4 SpA EV's does 46.1% - 54.5% to Tangela), which isn't all that bad, but if you're choice locked into something else Tangela walls you (Stone Edge fails to 2hko while Fire Punch does similar damage and Earthquake like 14hkos)

    2) Priority: unboosted Absol's Sucker Punch does 84.2% - 99.4%, meaning if you've come in on rocks or have taken Life Orb Damage you're pretty much dead. Gurdurr also has the bulk to take on a Stone Edge and Drain Punch Rampardos to death

    3) Scarfmons: Scarf Jolly Base 81 and higher outspeeds while Scarf Neu Base 95's can outspeed +2 Rampardos.

    Once these threats are gone I'm sure Rampardos will enjoy totally decimating teams.
  15. Lady Shinki

    Lady Shinki

    Dec 19, 2009
    The thing that I really like about Rampardos is that it is basically a one-hit kill button (that works 80% of the time) with Head Smash, Earthquake, and Superpower. It cleanly 2hko's Tangela and Quagsire (!!) if they switch in on the first Head Smash, meaning you absolutely don't have to predict at all and can just fire off a HS for free if you come in on something you outspeed (and he is in a higher speed tier than Torterra). If you're feeling ballsy, adamant CB Head Smash 2hko's Gurrdurr too after SR if it switches in first to absorb the Rock-type attack and set up.

    I guess I might make an alt to officially test it, but its bone-crushing merits speak for itself, especially with CB.
  16. breh

    breh 強いだね

    Feb 6, 2010
    I'll be using Rampardos.

    Alt: Unstoppable Force

    (really tempted to use leafeon too; leafeon seems to be a good BP user)
  17. Omicron

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Feb 17, 2010
    Alt: Raperdos
    Pokemon: Rampardos / Leafeon
  18. marilli

    marilli two, but one.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 26, 2010
    I'll be using: Bastiodon!

    OK I lie: I've already made a decent-ish stall team with it. Seriously, Bastiodon is a lot better than some people give credit for. Stealth Rock / Roar / Magic Coat / Rock Blast is my current set, and it serves very well against mons that otherwise breaks stall rather easily. I really want to put Protect in somewhere, as to scout choiced Sawk and Braviary + scout for HP Fighting, but Magic Coat is a really good anti-measure for Taunt, and does well against Taunt Skuntank, Taunt + WOW Misdreavus, and others that think they can break stall just by waltzing in.

    Bastiodon's greatest strength (and its greatest weakness) is that it either resists a ton of attacks, or it just gets flat-out murdered. Fighting-types and Water-types are a big problem, and you need a good teammate like Ludicolo that can act as a general Water-type counter (because general Fighting-type counters come in a much simpler form as in Musharna and Duosion, and Tangela can deal with most fighting + ground-types.) What you do is first set up some layers (of simple spikes, tspikes aren't that necessary), and double-switch into something that can't ever hope to hurt you: there's a ton of such viable threats, namely Skuntank, SubDisable Haunter, Shelgon, etc. As it happens, most teams will have 3 mons that murder it, and 2 mons that can't hurt it at all, and 1 mon like Tangela that wins 1 vs 1 but can't do notable damage, either. If you're lucky with the RNG rolls, and you phaze in the right mon, your opponent will be frustrated to no end. What's worse is that there's very little the opponent can do about it!
  19. MyNameIsSPS


    May 12, 2012
    Guess I'll try ....

    Alt: Stall Sucks
    Testing: Rampardos
  20. Buckles


    Jun 15, 2008
    Alt: Snow Big Deal
    Using: Glaceon

    Glaceon's defenses are too often overlooked, but it is actually really bulky. I'm gonna try investing in them, since it already outspeeds the walls it'll be taking hits from, and let it force switches with Fake Tears or maybe Yawn.
  21. Full2Half


    Dec 18, 2011

    Ok, I reached bronze rank fairly quickly, and you'd better expect me to keep going. Laddering has been easy, between the sheer power of rampardos, and the excellance of his teammates, the wins just kept coming. So, without further adeu, my team.

    Show Hide

    Miltank @Life Orb
    trait: Scrappy
    Evs: 252 Atk 252 Spe 4 def
    Nature: Adamant
    -Stealth Rocks
    -Ice Punch

    This guy is surprisingly helpful. Dispite a seemingly low attack stat, the surprise factor alone usually allows him to net two kills from the lead position, as well as set up stealth rocks. I find offensive miltank to be a fantastic offensive SRer that isnt a giant lump of rock.

    Rampardos @Choice Scarf
    trait: Mold Breaker
    Evs: 252 Atk 252 Spe 4 Hp
    Nature: Jolly
    -Head Smash
    -Fire Punch
    -Zen Headbutt

    As the guy I was actually testing, rampardos is what this team is based around. Honestly, he is situational because the rest of my team deals with stuff quite well. However, with threats removed, rampardos is free to come in late-game and just spam head smash. I origionally was using a banded set, but then I realised it was too slow to do the job I needed it to do. So I slapped a scarf on it, and it has been much more effective.

    Magmortar @Life Orb
    trait: Vital Spirit
    Evs: 252 spA 252 spe 4 def
    Nature: Timid
    -Fire Blast
    -Focus Blast
    -HP Ice

    Magmortar is fantastic in tandem with rampardos, as it destroys nearly anything that may get in rampy's way. Tangela being the most important. As well as dispersing threats, magmortar has the speed and power to sweep in it's own right. STAB fire blast from this guy is no joke. Vital spirit also gives it an edge over common sleepers.

    Exeggutor @Lum Berry
    Trait: Harvest
    Evs: 252 SpA 252 Spe 4 Hp
    Nature: Timid
    -Sleep Powder
    -Leaf Storm

    Exeggutor on this team works as a fail-safe for magmortar. Should magmortar be stalled out, exeggutor works as a check to tangela/amoonguss/vileplume as well as a fantastic stallbreaker. With access to neverending lum berrys, exeggutor can sponge status like nobodys buisness. He is also able to put to sleep threats that could be trouble late game. Natural bulk and OK speed with that spA make it a fantastic tank. Not to mention being able to rest off damage and be woken immediately every time he gets low on health.

    Samurott @Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    Evs: 200 Atk 160 SpA 148 Spe
    Nature: Rash
    -Hydro Pump
    -Aqua Jet
    -Ice Beam

    This set really helps as well. Mixed samurott is surprisingly underrated and can blast through unsuspecting opponants. So many times have I revenge killed something with aqua jet, only for them to bring in tangela, which outright dies to ice beam. The surprise factor really makes this set work, and it is very reliable in a pinch.

    Haunter @Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    Evs: 252 spA 252 Spe 4 def
    Nature: Timid
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Shadow Ball

    This set really needs no introduction. Haunter was origionally added as filler, but has really proved itself as a member of the team. It's speed and power with unique typing is amazing in the NU tier. It patches up some holes on this team, and has saved my ass late game on more than a few occasions.

    As far as troubles with this team, quick normals can be a problem. Threat #1 is tauros, who's speed movepool and power threaten me on a constant basis. Basically anything that ruins Bulky-ish offensive playstyle ruins this team. Namely tauros and cinccino for the reasons mentioned before.
  22. Limi

    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Aug 25, 2011
    kudos to whoever came up with the theme this week *ahem*

    going under the alt LimiRW
    I'll test the two eevees and rampy
  23. Steamroll

    Steamroll MRW
    is a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jan 1, 2011
    Alright I have had almost 35 battles today with Rampardos. I've had a mix of everything after losing more than 100 points early to Teambuilder trolling. Starting from there I went on a 25 game tilt winning about 20 of the 25. Right now as I stand Rampardos has been suprisingly effective at late game sweeping when I manage to get a RP in. As I stand I'm at 1108 (I started at like fucking 880 so cut me slack).

    Here's my Ramp set:

    Rampardos (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rock Polish
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Beam

    "Why the fuck isn't Steam running Life Orb?" Simple, recoil kills this guy. Bluffing choice items is also a bonus, as most of the time I'm Earthquaking shit. Ice Beam is for Torterra and Tangela, who both can shut Rampy down without it (Stone Edge fails to 2hko while Ice Beam doesn't give a fuck about either). When it comes time to blow the bluff I can Rock Polish or just simply change my move on the expected switch, which really puts the momentum in my favor and can definitely end the game early.
  24. Wartortle


    May 2, 2012
    I'd like to try out Leafeon. With its good all around stats (except his SpecD lol) it can really go far in this tier. I might try the others too. :-)

    Alt: Kid Caliente
  25. breh

    breh 強いだね

    Feb 6, 2010
    ramp's pretty neat. there's a pleasant simplicity in being able to beat probo/bastiodon/golem and setting up rocks before death. also head smash OHKOes the metagame.
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