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Research Week #2

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Furai, Mar 29, 2012.

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  1. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    yeah espeon is fuckin terrible lol. will try out deo-d next since all you guys are just using mence anyway.
  2. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Oops. All fixed. Glad to see this thread is very active!
  3. NTT

    NTT

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    That makes me feel slightly better, knowing that I didn't actually miss making the hall of fame and forget to prove it =P
  4. NTT

    NTT

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    [​IMG]

    This officially lets me call a day of avoid university work "productive"

    Lessons learned up to this point:
    -Try as you might, it can't be shoehorned into the same roles as Rayquaza to take advantage of the higher speed, 135Att is missing tons of KOs that I have come to expect on my usual team from Ray. The two play fundamentally differently, at risk of sounding like I'm stating the obvious.
    -In my opinion, the "double dragon" strategy is nowhere near as effective this gen. There seem to be a lot more things capable of acting as a hard check/counter which stop the pairing from being as effective as it was in DPPt. If anything it works better the other way around, have Ray nuke Steels with V-Create (Which a lot of people aren't used to seeing on the ladder yet) to make sweeps with Scarfmence easier.
    -The aforementioned Scarf+Moxie is bloody awesome, easily the best way to go with Mence and will no doubt feature on future teams. It's most effective in a heavy offence team capable of forcing as many switches into SR as possible (Spikes are nice too, but I scrapped them relatively early on because they ended up being redundant), then being employed late game to clean up. Hell you can even clean up mid-game with a lucky run of confusion and early removal of steel types.

    I also used Espeon for a brief stint, more out of coincidence than for the sake of research, it ended up being a logical step during my initial team build. In short, it's pretty pointless. The only things Magic Mirror ever came up against were hazards and Dark Void, which were almost always found on Dialga and Darkrai respectively (Ferro and Forry have been very rare over the course of the day for some reason), both of whom absolutely trash Espy with their STABs. I ended up running something rubbish like Wish/Yawn/Baton Pass/Protect in an attempt to make it useful before fazing it out in favour of something that actually helps.

    ---

    I'm going to call it a day for now, will try and ladder further with the team tomorrow because I'm enjoying using it so far. No doubt I'll get hit by hax and end up back below 1200 when I'm on the verge of Gold, at which point I'll retire the team (Most likely accompanied by an RMT which I'll link here) and move onto Deoxys.
  5. locoghoul

    locoghoul

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    Update #2:

    ranking (open)
    [​IMG]


    I think I'm gonna stop now. This team is almost a joke. I don't think I can beat good teams with it. Still, it was fun to play with it. I got to test another poke while laddering. SubCM Mewtwo is very effective and I originally thought of Espeon to bounce Tspikes that could ruin the set up. In the end it was more of a Gira-A, support Groudon and Ferrothorn switch in. Some of my EVs may look weird but I try to stay away from standard sets.

    team (open)
    The Other (Giratina-O) @ Griseous Orb Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Magic Coat
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Dragon Claw
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Roar
    - Fire Punch
    - Dragon Tail
    BigDaddy (Mewtwo) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 204 HP / 72 SAtk / 232 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute
    - Psystrike
    - Flamethrower
    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave
    - Leech Seed
    Espeon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Reflect
    - Morning Sun
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Yawn
    The One (Arceus) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Recover
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Perish Song
  6. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    locoghoul and Fiction. are the first ones to get into the Hall of Fame, into the Silver Class! Good job guys, and the rest of you - keep it up! I want to see some GOLD
  7. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Okay, I'm going to do my best to ladder with Espeon, even though it's fucking shit.

    Alt: EspyJUMP
  8. Splendiferous

    Splendiferous

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    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    My team:
    Show Hide
    Arceus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake
    - Shadow Claw

    Palkia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 100 Atk / 156 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Spacial Rend
    - Surf

    Terrakion @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Rock Polish
    - Swords Dance

    Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake

    Deoxys-S @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Magic Coat

    Rayquaza @ Life Orb
    Trait: Air Lock
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Tail


    I literally just took my old offensive team and slapped mence in + a few set changes. Oh, and also added subpunchPalkia for the luls but it actually worked quite well.

    Due to having no actual weather I have problems with teams using weather abusers like Excadrill since it can spin away my hazards and just rape my team in general. Rain and sun are generally easy to handle but sand is pretty gay.
  9. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Wow, well done Splendi! You are the first one to get into Gold class! Good job! Can you get higher?~


    And shrang I have updated you. Keep it up guys, let's see more gold!
  10. NTT

    NTT

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    Just hit silver:
    [​IMG]

    My insights can be found a couple of posts above. I'm guessing we have to post our teams before we get put into the hall of fame thing?
  11. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Yeah, your team needs to be posted. Good work though!
  12. NTT

    NTT

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    Thanks, I didn't think I'd get so high after a couple of days =P
    I'll get my team up tomorrow. Already encountered a handful of smogon players while laddering so I'd rather not have my team made public while I'm still working with it. Same drill as yesterday though, if I end up dropping back too far I'll open up my team then move onto a new alt to try deoxys.

    EDIT: Screw it, got up to 1335 then dropped down to 1285 after two losses. Here's the team, I'll take my silver =P
    Here's the 1335 screenshot for the hall of fame:
    [​IMG]


    Show Hide
    Dialga @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Aura Sphere
    - Thunder

    Arceus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 88 HP / 244 Atk / 176 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Swords Dance
    - Brick Break
    - Shadow Claw

    Groudon @ Choice Band
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Punch

    Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Brick Break

    Heatran (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - AncientPower
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Note: AP is there for the 2HKO on Ho-oh, don't judge me XD

    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SAtk
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Outrage
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Shadow Sneak
  13. Fiction.

    Fiction.

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    testing espeon under the name switchback, so I don't leave it out
  14. NTT

    NTT

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    Moving onto Deoxys-D now, under the alt Soy El Gofre. My Mence team can be found in this post.
  15. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    Feel free to post cool replays of your teams in action, especially those that highlight the use of the Research Week 'mon.
  16. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    All has been updated, and yes, please do share with us some replays!

    EDIT: For testing Deoxys-D, I will be using the alt Mirage.
  17. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    I've been using Scarf Salamence like pretty much everybody else. Its an excellent Pokemon to use. Yes, I agree it lacks the raw initial power but Salamence builds up momentum like really quickly. After 1 kill, its attack stat hits like 550 something. Like I said in my earlier post, its all about creating the win condition for Salamence to function. If you can create the win condition Salamence can easily crush a unwary team. So, I got to like 1320, wanted to hit 1350, but lost an easy battle due to a misplay so whatever.

    ranking (open)
    [​IMG]


    Team (open)
    Dialga @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder
    - Draco Meteor

    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Power Whip
    - Toxic
    - Leech Seed
    - Spikes

    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Rest
    - Roar
    - Sleep Talk

    Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Judgment
    - Calm Mind

    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast

    Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Surf
    - Spacial Rend
    - Fire Blast


    The basic idea around the team is pound the opponents team with Dialga throwing around Draco Meteor's and Thunder. Usually, even if the opponent has a Xatu, I practically can assure myself Stealth Rock. I use Dialga mostly as a suicide lead. Nearly every match I get at least one kill from Dialga and at least 1-2 lose over 50% of their health. Trying to switch around an LO Dialga is the stupidest thing ever (unless you are another LO Dialga lead). Just sac whatever mon, and revenge kill it. Once, Dialga is dead, phase 1 is over. After that I go into defense mode with Ghost Arceus, Kyogre and Ferrothorn sponging hits and laying Spikes. Palkia is often used as a pivot to get several important switch-ins. The main idea in phase 2 is to get down Spikes and take down whatever Steels the opponent has. This is not too difficult to be frank. Once the steels are down, I usually sac Ferrothorn (idc about Ogre) bring in Mence on a weakened mon. Its basically check mate. I already outlined this in the earlier post.

    Moving onto Deoxys-D with my new alt too hate
  18. NTT

    NTT

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    The ladder hates me this morning. Some idiot leaves his scarf Ho-oh locked into BB against my max HP/def giratina and proceeds to crit me three times in a row. I've had Darkrai of all things get flinch hax consecutively against me, and somebody running Ice Beam on their Gyarados pull off a freeze. I've now rage quit for the day.

    Rant over, time for something relevant...

    Deoxys-D is a surprisingly good lead, I really wasn't expecting much at all. The first thing I tried was running it as a pseudo-lugia with hazards, then a pseudo-deo-S with bulk, neither worked, it needs to be played to it's own strengths rather than trying to emulate the psychics it has stuff in common with, but by the same token I've found both the analysis sets to be relatively ineffective. I've run a few different sets, but I've settled on a variant of the Utility Wall set, running max HP/Spe with Spikes/Recover/Seismic Toss/Magic Coat, and it's been pretty awesome. Other Deoxys leads get their stuff reflected back at them, Darkrai gets put to bed, Dialga gets laughed at without Draco Meteor and Groudon is laughed at in general. The only real lead it has issues with is good ol' Kyogre, whom I have a couple of counters for that have no issues switching in. The main issue that set faces is being used as setup bait once the opponent realises it's not carrying Taunt or Toxic, so I've found a couple of great partners in the form of Giratina and Balloon Heatran. Giratina can handle and PHaze most Arceus formes, Mewtwo and other special attackers, while Heatran can force the various dragons into locking themselves into Outrage or into using a weaker attack to break the balloon, giving an opportunity to throw out HP Ice.

    tldr; Deoxys works quite well when played to it's strengths, doesn't use predictable sets and has proper support. It's not on the same scale of awesome as Mence, but it's certainly a viable player in various Ubers playstyles.
  19. Fiction.

    Fiction.

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    After testing with Espeon for a couple of days, I can say it isn't as terrible as I thought it would be, it just takes very careful play to make the most out of it. One wrong move and Espeon is pretty much gone. Currently sitting at 1346, hopefully soon to be higher.

    As for sharing replays, here's one which I think highlights Espeon's use more than any of the other battles I've had using it: http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-switchback-vs-D4RR3N--04-avril-2012-at-16h28
  20. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Okay, I got everything updated.

    I've been trying Deoxys-D for a short while, and I really like it in fact, but my team needs serious reconstructrion. :c
  21. Fiction.

    Fiction.

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    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    Team: http://pastebin.com/bpvJ5AW8

    I'll try and get higher if you want me to, Furai, but that's my peak for now.
  22. NTT

    NTT

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    Between a combination of me being a pretty inexperienced stall user in Ubers and PO absolutely hating me, I'm getting absolutely nowhere with Deoxys. I can't seem to find a decent team build without being presented with a whole new host of weaknesses that patching up the last batch exposes. That being said, I do think there's promise in the Magic Coat set I mentioned a couple of posts back. While you might think it's utterly redundant when he have it's fellow research mate, Espeon, to use, but I would disagree for one big reason- team preview. There's only one reason that you're going to be using Espeon/Xatu in Ubers, and opponents are going to be aware of that from turn one and play accordingly. Magic Coat, on the other hand, isn't detectable until you actually use it. Both have their merits, but a clever player isn't going to throw out hazards or status when Espeon is a stone's throw away. Deoxys on the other hand lacks offensive presence while also being a pretty tough speed bump to drive over, making it a magnet for being set up on and statused. In the case of things like Dakrai and defensive Arceus formes, leading off with Deo-D can give you ample opportunities to cripple opposing leads right off the bat.
  23. Splendiferous

    Splendiferous

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    The 2nd fat deoxys-d set onsite is shit. It's like a wannabe ferro and blob mixed in one with shit typing... but at least it has taunt. The speed set is okay but you're better off using something silly like whimsicott =_=
  24. jackm

    jackm

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    Testing Salamence.

    Alt: Jamm

    Espeon sucks eggs for me and i can't make Deoxys-D work.

    EDIT: just got awesome idea for Deo-D, doing that instead.
  25. Fiction.

    Fiction.

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    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    http://pastebin.com/mzUX2rex

    New peak, posting a new pastebin since I changed a couple of the sets a little.
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