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Research Week #4 - Murkrow, Gardevoir, Drifblim, Luxray

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by DTC, Mar 4, 2012.

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  1. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Week aids in helping explore the tier, and is especially effective right now as NU is relatively balanced. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU.


    Some rules:
    -Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize!
    -Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them.
    -Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
    -Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 4 Pokemon we are "researching". Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect the next research week to have all the Pokemon you suggested, or any of them.

    Anyways, the 4 Pokemon we will be looking into for this Research Week are:

    [​IMG] |[​IMG] |[​IMG] |[​IMG]

    How useful are these Pokemon in NU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon?

    Discuss; I can't wait to see the discussion that comes out of this! Don't forget you're not just limited to this topic to discuss these Pokemon, I encourage you to talk about them on the #neverused irc chat as well! At the end of the week I hope we can reach a general consensus on how good these Pokemon really are, and maybe we might find some interesting discoveries.
  2. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    I have a lot of experience with Drifblim and Chestorest is an amazing set, if you can get the opportunity to set up it will destroy teams. Very easily. More thoughts to come
  3. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

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    Luxray could be a somewhat decent counter to the birds while also adding something to your team that isn't a giant rock... Intimidate + a decent amount of HP / Def investment might let it take a few Flying attacks while letting it hit back with SE Electric moves. Just a little speculation; I'm not the best at strategy.

    Drifblim's ChestoRest set has already been mentioned, and I agree that it destroys what it gets a chance to set up on, and can put the hurt on unprepared teams.

    I haven't used Gardevoir for much other than DualScreening with Memento (I think that's the move, I know it's one of the attacks that kills the Pokemon using it), but it did a pretty decent job of that. I'm sure it can run Specs / Scarf to some effect, maybe even LO. Not saying that other things wouldn't outclass those sets though, because this tier is littered with Psychic types that all function similarly in most regards. Cute Pokemon, good stats for what it needs to be doing.

    Murkrow is obviously going to be abusing Prankster, and any set not doing so is, in my opinion, wasting one of the best abilities in the game. I've heard of a few strange sets that it could run, like Special Attacker or Weather Summoner, and those might hold some relevancy if used correctly.
    I mean, hell, what Gorebyss / Exeggutor doesn't appreciate (virtually) automatic Rain / Sun?

    Just a few thoughts off the top of my head, hope it adds to the thread.
  4. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    i present to you, my favorite murkrow set!!!1!

    Murkrow (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Insomnia / Prankster
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Sucker Punch
    - Brave Bird
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Roost / Heat Wave / Thunder Wave

    this set is so fun to use, murkrow's featherdance/perish song forces a ton of switches, allowing you to smack the opponent withn a brave bird and possibly 2hko them, sucker punch allows murkrow to revenge kill weakened shit, and also evade absol's sucker punch. HP Grass kills golem, quagsire, and other shit weak to grass that resists brave bird. The last option is up to you, roost can be used to heal LO or BB recoil, heat wave can be used with insomnia to hit lol metang, and t-wave cripples a sweeper before krow goes down
  5. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    I'll go over the pokemon I know about: Murkow, Gardevoir, and Drifblim and what I think are viable sets for them that differentiate themselves from other Pokemon.
    [​IMG]
    Murkrow
    Offensive (open)
    Murkrow (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Insomnia
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Brave Bird
    - Sucker Punch
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Heat Wave

    Base 91 Speed is amazing in NU and Murkrow's biggest asset as a mixed attacker along with being able to smack physical walls like Tangela and Alomomola with a powerful Heat Wave or HP Grass respectively.

    Perish Trapper (open)
    Murkrow (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Mean Look
    - Perish Song
    - Roost
    - Substitute

    With decent defenses thanks to Eviolite, Prankster, and good typing, Murkrow is capable of Perish Trapping Pokemon that get in your way of a potential sweep such as Tangela, Alomomola, Hypno, Exeggutor, or Grumpig. The spread allows Murkrow to take on all of the above much easier, setting up a Sub allowing you to Perish Song something even if they switch.

    Thunder Wave (open)
    Murkrow (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Roost
    - Taunt
    - Brave Bird

    This time with a physically defensive set to paralyze thing like Sawk and be able to actually live. This pairs up well with slow, but powerful attackers such as SpecsTaria and CBTerra, who have already great offensive synergy and appreciate being able to hit hard without being penalized for being somewhat slow.



    [​IMG]
    Gardevoir
    Defensive (open)
    Gardevoir (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Psyshock

    With this set Gardevoir abuses her bulk and utility to the max. It takes advantage of Wish to differentiate itself from Mesprit and Will-O-Wisp to smack those comparing it to Hypno in the face. This spread lets it take special hits well with Will-O-Wisp making up for Gardy's mediocre defense. Psyshock lets it take down Cryogonal and Jynx easier.

    Choice (open)
    Gardevoir (F) @ Choice Specs / Scarf
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Trick

    Gardevoir is incredibly powerful and can get free switches thanks to its decent typing and Trace ability letting it gain Tangela's Regenerator, take down Tangela or the incoming switch-in and come back at full health and many other goodies. HP Ice lets Gardy hit Exeggutor and hit Altaria much harder. Specs Psychic hits extremely hard 2HKOing standard Missy and for the strong special walls such as Lickilicky and Cryogonal, Trick will ruin their day.

    Leaving Calm Mind out because, while very viable it is outclassed by Mesprit due to its higher all-around bulk. Even so Defensive is viable due to Gardevoir's access to recovery moves.


    [​IMG]
    Drifblim
    ChestoRest (open)
    Drifblim (M) @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 252 Def / 144 SDef / 112 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt

    Very destructive set. After setting up as many Calm Minds as you want in the face of status and strong attacks, the ChestoRest strategy alongside Unburden turn Drifblim into one of the most underrated sweepers in NU. EVs give Drifblim great defenses to start out with before abusing Calm Mind and enough speed to outspeed Timid Scarf Rotom-S after the Unburden boost.

    Mixed AcroBling (open)
    Drifblim (M) @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 196 Atk / 200 SAtk / 112 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Acrobatics
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunderbolt
    - Destiny Bond

    Not as bad as it sounds. With hazards it can sweep late game or at the very worst take down at least 2 Pokemon thanks to AcroBling and Destiny Bond. Evs to outspeed Scarf Rotom-S and SAtk investment to 2HKO Alomomola even if it Protects. The remaining Evs used to power up Acrobatics as much as possible. A combo of Acrobatics and Shadow Ball can take down even behemoths such as Tangela
  6. Endorfins

    Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare
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    I've used Drifblim extensively, and i can say that the ChestoRest set is a monster behind screens (set up by Gardevoir), it can easily set up three or more Calm Minds and begin to sweep. Choice Scarfers are useless after the unburden boost and stalling with Toxic doesn't help either because of Rest. Drifblim has a great ability and can easily abuse it with moves such as Acrobatics, Recycle or even Thief! Despite the power of ChestoRest, Drifblim still has so many options that it really shouldn't be hard to have your opponent second guessing every time they vs one.
  7. Tahu

    Tahu

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    Has anyone considered Baton Pass Drifblim? It can make huge Substitutes and has Calm Mind.
  8. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Luxray is a freakin' badass. Defensively it's MORE than capable of switching into the birds, it has enough physical bulk with investment to take repeated neutral attacks from the tier even without Intimidate. It doesn't lose momentum either, like most other bird responses, since it can use Roar, Discharge and Volt Switch to gain the advantage. I haven't used it offensively, but base 120 Atk, Wild Charge, Superpower and Crunch make the CB set very threatening imo. It even has Ice Fang for Torterra :D

    And the mixed set looks good too, since it can pretty much bypass a lot of physical walls with HP Grass and Signal Beam.
  9. Machineae

    Machineae

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    Favorite murkrow set:

    Murkrow (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Roost
    - Swagger
    - Foul Play
    - Thunder Wave

    Been using it since prankster was released and it's been amazing. Its really self explanatory, parafusion whilst abusing their heightened attack stat to KO them.
  10. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Molk: Nice, I'm going to try that out soon. It does seem a bit weak, though, mind sharing some damage calcs to show how powerful Murkrow is?

    EBeast: Great post, that'll be very useful for people who are having trouble finding good sets to use on these Pokemon. Which of the sets do you like the best for each Pokemon?

    Toa Tahu: Interesting idea; please test that out and come back to us with the results! I'll try it out myself if I have a chance, as I've been wanting to try out BP, and it'll give me the perfect chance to use Suction Cups Cradily which I wanted to do last week.

    erisiscape: Yeah, I've been using that set lately, and the results were interesting. It didn't do all that much, but it was useful sometimes. You've tested it out more than me, so I'd like you to talk more about what threats it forces out and such. That Lickilicky + Luxray defensive core you were using was quite annoying!

    Machineae: Looks pretty gimmicky, but with some luck it'd be effective. What team do you find it works best on?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here is what I think of the Pokemon so far from my testing (excluding Murkrow because I haven't tested it out much yet.):

    Gardevoir: I tried Substitute Calm Mind Gardevoir, and honestly it performed like an inferior Mesprit. It is slightly slower, a lot less bulky on the physical side, and has no Levitate. However, I've been finding Sub Wow Gardevoir very effective, and it's entertaining to WoW something such as Absol or Skuntank. Here was the set I was using:

    Substitute Will-O-Wisp Gardevoir (open)

    [​IMG]
    Gardevoir (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt

    Basically you Substitute on something you force out, a status attack, or a really weak attack then proceed to attack / cripple stuff. 216 Speed EV's and a boosting nature allows it to outspeed Jolly Absol (Which I'm starting to see more often...). The rest goes into bulk so it has an easier time taking attacks. Will-O-Wisp compliments Gardevoir's high natural Special Defense, which is nice.


    Try it out if you're interested! I also want to try out dual screens Gardevoir and choice when I have the chance. Dual screens Gardevoir + Belly Drum Linoone is amazing, especially since Gardevoir has Memento; I've seen it in action and it's quite frightening!

    Drifblim: You have to set-up at the right time, otherwise Drifblim won't do much. However, once you find the right time to set-up, and there's nothing that threatening in Drifblim's way, it wrecks. It's not that hard to set it up, the problem is that it needs quite a few things removed, such as Armaldo, Regirock, Skuntank, and Cacturne. Having Spikes support really helps--Drifblim can even block it Rapid Spin! Only problem is that it gets beaten by most of the common Rapid Spin users...

    Luxray: So far I've tried out defensive and Guts. Defensive is OK, it checks threats such as Samurott and the birds, and it can annoy stuff with Intimidate, but it doesn't do that much else. It can easily gain momentum, but it needs some extra support to truly shine. It doesn't have any recovery, so you want a Lickilicky or Audino to be able to provide it with Wishes. Keeping hazards away from the field is also really helpful too. If only it was bulkier and had recovery...

    The Guts set is pretty interesting. It is very powerful and can OHKO a lot of stuff. Only problem is without any defense investment it gets defeated quite quickly, especially considering the poison damage from Toxic Orb, Wild Charge recoil, and the fact that it can't outspeed that much with only 70 base Speed. It's great against more defensive teams, though, and because of the lack of birds lately, Regirock isn't as common as it used to be. (I've been seeing a lot of Golem, though. Luckily they take about 90% from HP Grass with 252 HP EV's.)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Anyways, let's continue with the testing! Don't be afraid to post, as long as your post is constructive and adds to the discussion.
  11. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    oh wow, SubWisp Gardy looks really cool :O. I'll try that out in the future and edit in my opinion.

    As for my favorite of my above sets of each mon I'd have to say Thunder Wave for Murkow as paralyzing an entire enemy team and being able to spam CB or Specs attacks is great. As for Gardy I'd have to say SpecsGardy as it hits like a truck, but you never know Subwisp might become a favorite! Not too sure about Drifblim, both of the set require a lot of support, less with the Acrobling set since you don't need Screens to use it to its fullest.
  12. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Sure. In testing, it was definitely the most useful at forcing out Swellow and Braviary as it comes in on their STAB attacks; combined with Stealth Rock support, Luxray can really whittle down their health at no cost thanks to Volt Switch. It also handles Cinccino and other frail, fast physical attackers well, since it isn't hit super-effectively by any coverage moves and only takes 10-12% per Tail Slap hit from an LO set, factoring in Intimidate, meaning it can almost always switch in and force it out at full health. Absol is also pretty helpless, since Luxray can likely get in for free on a failed Sucker Punch and just spam Discharge until it dies, with Sucker Punch 4HKOing after Intimidate. Samurott is pretty screwed since it takes a lot of damage from Volt Switch, and if it uses Substitute you can just Discharge to stay in.

    I've found myself using Toxic and Roar more recently too; Luxray is a good user of Toxic since it often forces the opponent to respond to its offensive disguise. I've been somewhat disappointed with Discharge's paralyse charge, so I might test out Wild Charge + Thunder Wave later to really make the most of my bulky offense, and Luxray's attack stat.

    And yeah, Luxray's lack of healing and vulnerability to status are annoying, but Lickilicky can fix all of those issues for you! :D

    If push comes to shove, a Rest Talk set with Discharge and Roar could also be probably pretty viable, but it's more of a standalone mon.
  13. Koinzell

    Koinzell

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    Man, Gardevoir is so underrated ! With a base 125 special attack and his powerfull coverage moves, Gardevoir is better than Mesprit at offensive sets and that includes Offensive Calm Mind, something like that :

    Gardevoir (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Encore / Shadow Ball

    After one Calm Mind, Gardevoir OHKOs Lickilicky and Skuntank with Focus Blast, the latter tries to Pursuit-trap more often than not.

    +1 Psychic OHKOs most Water types, so Thunderbolt is not necessary.

    Encore screws with Sucker Punch users and is a excellent move in general, but Shadow Ball helps with bulky Psychic types
  14. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    I'd still rather use Mesprit due to the extra physical bulk for switching into Sawk, and access to Ice Beam (and Levitate being more consistently useful than Trace), although I must admit that Focus Blast and Encore are good reasons to use Gardevoir instead.

    Meanwhile, I've been using a double status / roar / volt switch set on Luxray and being able to paralyse things at will has proved more useful than having a spammable STAB, so far. You have to predict well to not status the wrong thing, however.
  15. Cheapoman

    Cheapoman

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    Luxray
    Adamant
    Flame Orb
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    - Wild Charge
    - Crunch'
    - Double Kick
    - Quick Attack

    This set is simple enough. WC for stab and your strongest option for neutral pokes, Crunch for ghost and psychic types (Slows ones anyways). Double Kick to break the sub of pokes and Quick Attack for priority. The set is more attuned for taking out weakened pokes and rruns really well with spikes and stealth rock up or its counters crippled.
  16. tennisace

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    I've been trying an AcroBlim set of sorts recently, it does decently well except that it loses to every spinner in the tier, unlike in UU and RU when it can just smack around the hitmons. Here's the set I've been using:

    Drifblim (M) @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Acrobatics
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Explosion
    - Destiny Bond

    Unfortunately even with a +nature Drifblim is REALLY weak. The EVs outspeed scarf Rotom-S after a boost, and allows you to Destiny Bond, which is cool because usually people's only check for Gorebyss is Rotom-S and they'll try to Volt Switch, which KOs. Explosion is filler, Will-O-Wisp allows you to fuck with physical mons idk.
  17. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    calcs:

    murkrow BB vs specially defensive lickilicky: 269 Atk vs 226 Def & 424 HP (120 Base Power): 199 - 235 (46.93% - 55.42%)

    murkrow HP grass vs physically defensive quagsire: 209 Atk vs 166 Def & 394 HP (70 Base Power): 332 - 392 (84.26% - 99.49%)

    murkrow BB vs eviolite gurdurr: 269 Atk vs 309 Def & 374 HP (120 Base Power): 290 - 344 (77.54% - 91.98%)

    murkrow sucker punch vs Haunter: 269 Atk vs 126 Def & 231 HP (80 Base Power): 476 - 564 (206.06% - 244.16%)

    murkrow BB vs 212 hp kangaskhan: 269 Atk vs 196 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): 231 - 273 (57.18% - 67.57%)

    murkrow sucker punch vs ursaring: 269 Atk vs 186 Def & 321 HP (80 Base Power): 162 - 192 (50.47% - 59.81%)

    murkrow BB vs ursaring: 269 Atk vs 186 Def & 321 HP (120 Base Power): 243 - 286 (75.70% - 89.10%)

    murkrow BB vs tangela: 269 Atk vs 541 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 168 - 200 (50.30% - 59.88%)

    can dent things a little, it isnt the most powerful thing on earth, but with spikes support and prankster thunder wave its pretty fun to use

    also, has a set onsite, must be strong!
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