Research Week #5: Muk, Relicanth, Altaria, Galvantula

Texas Cloverleaf

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Research Week retruns with another installment, with several interesting Pokemon up for grabs. I'm sure you'll have have lots to say on these three!

Research Week looks to investigate Pokemon that have potential in RU, be it in stats, movepool, or supporting their team, to serve as an innovative choice in today's metagame. These are Pokemon that, for the most part, remain relatively untested. I've selected 4 Pokemon I feel, with help from everyone else, could see the rise of new and powerful sets, or the fulfilment of a particular niche. Perhaps the title is a bit of a misnomer; in fact, this installment (and likely future ones) of Research Week will continue as long as the discussion does, and that's where you all come in.

If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning!

-Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize!
-Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in RU, and what sets are effective on them.
-Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
-Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 4 Pokemon we are "researching". Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect the next research week to have all the Pokemon you suggested, or any of them.

So, the 4 Pokemon we will be looking at this research week are Muk, Relicanth, Altaria and Galvantula
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How useful are these Pokemon in RU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon?

Discuss; the discussion that come out of this will surely be illuminating! Don't forget, you're not just limited to this topic to discuss these Pokemon. The #rarelyused irc channel is a perfectly suitable place to discuss them as well. At the end of the discussion period, I hope we can reach a general consensus on how good these Pokemon really are, and that we might find some interesting discoveries.


Alright, now that that's out of the way we can get to the fun part of this. First up, Research Week will now have a duration of roughly two weeks. The reason for this is as follows:



The Research Week Challenge:
  • Users will use one of the research week mons on their team
  • The user(s) that have peaked at #1 with a 1450+ rating before the end of the two week period will get temporary status (hops) in #rarelyused
  • Users will be expected to post their experiences with the pokemon they use
  • If they do not participate in the discussion they will be passed over
The first week of the challenge will be open for initial speculation on how one of the Research Week Pokemon will fare, previous experience with the Pokemon, or even just to say that you will be participating in the ladder challenge and on what alt (mandatory, new alts are required). The second week is where I expect the main discussion to occur and to heat up. This is when you can post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you.

Remember, if you are peak at #1 on the ladder before the end of the round with at least a 1400 rating you will get temporary hops in #rarelyused, which can become permanent depending on your track record. (If you already have hops+ we'll work something out)
 
Muk's time to shine! Thanks Texas.

alt: Gunk Shot abuse Muk, considering Altaria also

Seriously, try Muk. Good special tank and Gunk Shot is a nuke.

For a quick demonstration of it's bulk... Specs Timid Moltres Fire Blast cannot KO 252/0 Muk even after SR, not even a resisted hit. Meanwhile, Muk can (70% chance) OHKO with a Banded Gunk Shot.

Choice Band Gunk Shot has a 87% chance of a OHKO vs 252/252+ Tangrowth after SR and does 75 - 87% vs standard defensive Slowking.

Edit: Thanks for the edit of Muk's RU analysis removing the mentions of Honchkrow, Gligar, and Claydol. I will mention here that Ice Punch is/was mostly for Gligar and Claydol so it isn't as good for coverage as it used to be.
 
So I just started using a team with CB Muk, RP Relicanth, and CS Galvantula, and I've been pleasantly surprised. CB Muk is ridiculously strong and strangely bulky, surviving a LO Moltres Flamethrower at 50% health and then OHKOing in return with a CB Gunk Shot. Relicanth is also surprisingly good, especially if it manages to get a Rock Polish underneath its belt. Water / Rock / Ground has excellent coverage. CS Galvantula completes the core of my team, acting as a very useful revenge-killer.

Here's a replay of my most recent battle with this team:

I'm .p00p. .... lol

http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-p00p-vs-bigblue312--2012-05-16
 
RELICANTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUK
:}
i'll be on the alt kumicanth if you need me :D
nevermind fuck this i got hax'd twice
 
So I just started using a team with CB Muk, RP Relicanth, and CS Galvantula, and I've been pleasantly surprised. CB Muk is ridiculously strong and strangely bulky, surviving a LO Moltres Flamethrower at 50% health and then OHKOing in return with a CB Gunk Shot.
yep

Today I had an especially satisfying event, smashing a Steelix switch in with a CB Focus Punch for about 80% damage.

Here's an oldie, but it shows how easily Muk can sweep: http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-lars-test-3-vs-Stiflar--2012-04-05

Turn 11 - 16 = Muk mad. MUK SMASH!

The critical on Lanturn didn't really matter that much, offensive Lanturn is OHKOed anyway, and defensive Lanturn can only hope for a scald burn

I did extremely extensive set testing when I was writing Muk's RU analysis, but I never got around to doing a completely special set using acid spray (which I assumed was going to be terrible at the time, but heck, might as well try it now for the sake of completeness)
 

SilentVerse

Into the New World
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Well, I tried a bulky Dragon Dance Altaria set, and it was ok. Bulky DD was cool because Altaria is actually very difficult to take down with defensive investment, which let it set up multiple Dragon Dances pretty easily. It was also cool that it could act as a cleric early-game, then sweep later on. It was really let down my just how weak it was though; failing to KO a 75% Marowak at +4 is just really depressing :/. However, it was pretty cool how with max Special Defense it could take on those troublesome Pokemon like Moltres and LO Sceptile while being somewhat of an offensive threat, even with Stealth Rock up. Unfortunately, it really never swept that much, so I might just ditch Dragon Dance for something like Perish Song and chuck Altaria on a stall team or something and see how it does. If I get the time, I'll probably also try offensive Dragon Dance, Specs, and RestTalk Dragon Dance, since those all seem like cool sets.
 
In all honesty, Galvantula was very underwhelming. While it boasts a stronger STAB move than Manectric, as well as slightly greater Speed and a secondary STAB, it is relatively weak, and the fact that it is also weak to Stealth Rock really deters its ability to be a useful Choice user. Muk and Relicanth are surprisingly decent, Muk being moreso than Relicanth.
 
Well what can I say, I've been using Muk in 50 - 60% of my teams since I wrote the RU analysis mostly because I was so impressed by the Choice Band set and it fit very well as a special tank and t. spikes absorber.

Needless to say, my opinion has not changed and

Choice Band

Muk (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch
- Focus Punch
- Shadow Sneak

is the best damn choice band user in the tier (well at least in the top 5)

as said before, Ice punch has really lost utility now that claydol and gligar are gone so Fire Punch and Focus Punch (I really do love smashing Steelix on the switch) can be used pretty effectively on the same set.


I did not test this when writing the analysis so for the sake of completeness I tried out

Acid Spray

Muk (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Acid Spray
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Sludge Bomb

um, not actually that bad (not that good either though), certainly has surprise factor... better than the Choice Scarf set (yes I actually did test that), but that's not saying much. Acid Spray things and then usually the right coverage move does really good damage, but the main problem is you have to hit things on the switch and you can't really switch into things. The main problem is that the CB set is like 5 times better so why waste Muk on this set?

Altaria

never had tried it before this RW
I was pleased with its performance.

Tried bulky and offensive DD sets. Both usually carried its weight on the team, but the offensive DD set was certainly better in my opinion.

Offensive

Altaria (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Roost

hits surprisingly hard after a couple Dances. It's not particularly easy to get 2 off, but with Roost (and the very nice Natural Cure) you can sometimes attempt the sweep a few times. For example, start to set up vs a scald user, if you get burned, then you roost and switch out to try again later, if you manage to get 2 dances in without a burn, then sweep time! Unfortunately Cofagrigus does slightly hurt the viability of this set. it can tank hits and WoW and Mummy means you don't lose the burn when switching out.

Bulky

Altaria (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Toxic

very nice for sponging some special attacks especially Tangrowth or other walls that might be throwing around T-wave and Toxic. Toxic can help hurt Cofagrigus, but the inability to hurt pretty much every steel type kind of puts the nail in the coffin for this set. Pretty much used to tank hits early to mid game and then if the steel types are gone you can attempt a late game sweep vs a fairly weakened team with 2 dances. To sweep any earlier it will take like 3 or 4 dances, which can happen, but not against good opponents. I would probably suggest changing toxic for heal bell if you have any other status move users, but my team kind of needed some toxic user so it ended up here.
 

kokoloko

what matters is our plan!
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okay guys, texas asked me to take over hosting this because i make the bestest research weeks (see: UU) so i'm gonna put up the next group in a bit

:) :) :)
 

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