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Research Week #8 -Tauros, Pinsir, Floatzel, and Sneasel

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by DTC, Apr 22, 2012.

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  1. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
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    NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Week aids in helping explore the tier, and is especially effective right now as NU is relatively balanced. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU.


    Some rules:
    -Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize!
    -Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them.
    -Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
    -Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 4 Pokemon we are "researching". Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect the next research week to have all the Pokemon you suggested, or any of them.

    Anyways, the 4 Pokemon we will be looking into for this Research Week are:

    [​IMG]: One of the most prominent sweepers in the days of RBY, Tauros still remains an excellent and often underrated offensive threat in the NU tier. Its base 110 Speed makes it one of the fastest attackers around, and when combined with excellent neutral coverage, a solid base 100 Attack stat, and two very usable abilities, it can be extremely difficult for opponents to respond to it with their own sweepers, forcing them into playing defensively. With Sheer Force, Tauros can hit extremely hard with the unusual Rock Climb, and doesn't take Life Orb damage when using most moves other than Earthquake. On the other hand, Intimidate lets Tauros switch into battle more easily than its competition, especially in combination with its above-average base 95 Defense stat.

    [​IMG]: Although it's outclassed by Heracross in the upper tiers, Pinsir is one of the best physically inclined Bug-type attackers in NU due to its excellent coverage moves and respectable stats. Base 125 Attack, when combined with access to Swords Dance and the Mold Breaker ability, makes it an extremely potent wallbreaker, dealing with traditional defensive bulwarks such as Quagsire and Tangela with ease. Meanwhile, its base 85 Speed ensures that a Choice Band set is fast and strong enough to outspeed and KO many offensive responses in the tier, occasionally even with resisted attacks. Pinsir also boasts an unusually good movepool in comparison to its competition, with access to niche moves such as Close Combat and even Stealth Rock, which make it surprisingly versatile.

    [​IMG]: One of Floatzel's defining aspects is its base 115 Speed, which lets it revenge kill many pokemon with a decently powerful STAB Waterfall, or a super effective coverage move. While it may lack inherent power, it can use the Choice Band exceptionally well to either break through offensive opponents, or to cripple defensive opponents in combination with Switcheroo. Floatzel also benefits significantly from the increasing popularity of Rain Dance teams, as in rainy conditions, Swift Swim will allow Floatzel to outspeed almost any pokemon even with an uninvested Speed stat. This lets it runs mixed attacks such as Ice Beam and Hidden Power Grass effectively, to break through traditional responses such as Tangela and Quagsire and to facilitate a sweep from another team mate.

    [​IMG]: Like it's older cousin Weavile, Sneasel is incredibly fast, but lacks the power and STAB coverage to sweep with certainty. Don't let this discourage you from using it, however, as it can still deal with frustrating threats such as Haunter and Kadabra with incredible ease, outspeeding and KOing them with Choice Band Pursuit under most circumstances. STAB Ice Punch is also useful for dealing with the rare-but-dangerous Dragon-type pokemon in the tier, and Ice Shard can be used to bypass Sucker Punch from Golem and Absol. Don't think it can be walled by Probopass or Bastiodon either, as Low Kick destroys them utterly. With a Swords Dance set, it can also make an excellent late game cleaner once Choice Scarf users and other faster pokemon are removed.


    (cheers to erisia for the descriptions!)

    The Research Week Challenge:

    • Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team
    • Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 1400 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1325 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1250 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team.
    • Users will be expected to post their experiences with the pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encoutered while trying to make the said pokemon work.
    • If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.

    In order to participate in the challenge, simply post here with a brand new alt. Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

    Don't forget you're not just limited to this topic to discuss these Pokemon, I encourage you to talk about them on the #neverused irc chat as well! At the end of the week I hope we can reach a general consensus on how good these Pokemon really are, and maybe we might find some interesting discoveries.

    One person will get chosen as the Research Week Champion for this week. This will be decided by me; the person who ladders the most and contributes to the research week discussion the most will get temporary Half Op status on #neverused and they will potentially get a few other perks! Good luck all!

    Research Week Hall of Fame (open)


    Gold Class: 1400+

    Silver Class: 1325-1399

    Bronze Class: 1250-1324



    Crashinboombang won last research week (again) and retains his temporary HOP position. Please post more so he doesn't win again. ;-;

    A few other things: I removed the alt list because it was useless (do post your alts still, though!), and I lowered the bronze and silver class requirements.

    Also, sorry I didn't update the last thread.
  2. Django

    Django
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    Going to try this out with Tauros.

    alt: Mister Nice Lose
  3. TROP

    TROP This is it, baby. Hold me.
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    I don't care, this is one of my favorites to use and with my ru spam over I can finally play as much NU as I want to.

    If it was not obvious using the best mon in the list, Sneasel.

    Alt: XxSneaselxX
    Edit: only scrolled down to see Sneasel and missed Pinsir, using that thing too.
  4. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    Alt: Cherubull
    Pokemon: Tauros

    (I'd like to add some more, will update this post if I do)
  5. Keiran

    Keiran

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    Using big bad PINSIR

    alt: Clan BattleBug


    [​IMG]
    Pinsir (M) @ Life Orb / Hipster Item
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide

    Substitute is a great move I use it on everything. X-Scissor / Rock Slide is great coverage, I don't know if X-Scissor / Close Combat is better though. Golem sucks but wat do
  6. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Wooo, thanks for waiting.

    Alt: sneaselicious

    Again, guess what I'm using.
  7. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Prodigal Son
    Tauros
  8. Full2Half

    Full2Half

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    Alt: Pickaxe

    Pokes: Sneasel and pinsir, maybe tauros

    Edit: Floatzel too, for that sweeeeet aqua jet.
  9. Graceclaw

    Graceclaw

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    Alt: Promenade
    I'm going to be trying out several different Pinsirs, one of which is this one (tell me if you think it's viable/how to improve it) Bluffing a scarf should make a Sub easy to get up.
    p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; } Pinsir (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - X-Scissor
    - Focus Punch
    - Earthquake


    I will also be using Tauros, probably only a banded one, though, unless someone posts a fun set.

    Edit: HE'S A FREAKING MONSTER!!!!! Eliminate ghosts, rocks, and steels (or even weaken the latter two or kill them with prediction (EQs), and EVERYTHING dies to a Retaliate). Even after the first 210 BP Retaliate, the following 105 BP Retaliates coming off 448 Atk HURT.

    Tempted to pair him with this:
    Floatzel (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]


    Maybe Mild over Modest? Specs/Scarf maybe? Idk. Good for clearing out those steels/rocks that think they can sponge hits.....Once the field is clear of them Tauros wins.




    I've used Floatzel before on a few teams. It's not a bad scarfer with hazards support (more than just SR- needs spikes), and outruns almost the entire tier with it. Banded AJ is always fun, as is any fun fast banded poke. Make sure you clear out most of the enemy's team before bringing him in to clean up, though. I also think a mixed set is viable, but I'm absolutely AWFUL at making mixed sets.


    I've seen a few Sneasels, but they've never actually done much. Way too frail. I'm interested to see what people do with it this week.
  10. CrashinBoomBang

    CrashinBoomBang Aye I got Swagger, Koga 87
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    I'll probably do Pinsir or Floatzel under the alt "pinsir strong".

    Really tempted to use Specs Tauros as well, though!
  11. tennisace

    tennisace brock you like a hurricane
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    The only Flying-type that isn't 2hko'd by +2 X-Scissor is Charizard, and it's a clear 2hko with SR on the field. Close Combat or Earthquake is a better coverage move, since Mold Breaker means you wreck Probopass/Golem. Imo Close Combat is the better coverage move since you annihilate those pesky bulky Normal-types.

    Some calcs:

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Mold Breaker Pinsir (Neutral) X-Scissor vs 252HP/0Def Altaria (Neutral): 50% - 60% (180 - 213 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Mold Breaker Pinsir (Neutral) X-Scissor vs 4HP/0Def Braviary (Neutral): 61% - 72% (209 - 247 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Mold Breaker Pinsir (Neutral) X-Scissor vs 4HP/0Def Charizard (Neutral): 33% - 39% (101 - 119 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Mold Breaker Pinsir (Neutral) X-Scissor vs 252HP/0Def Regirock (Neutral): 48% - 57% (178 - 211 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 23% chance to 2HKO.

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Mold Breaker Pinsir (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/0Def Regirock (Neutral): 98% - 115% (358 - 422 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 90% chance to OHKO.

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Mold Breaker Pinsir (Neutral) Earthquake vs 252HP/0Def Regirock (Neutral): 81% - 96% (298 - 352 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Mold Breaker Pinsir (Neutral) X-Scissor vs 252HP/0Def Miltank (Neutral): 80% - 94% (316 - 373 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Mold Breaker Pinsir (Neutral) X-Scissor vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Camerupt (+Def): 43% - 51% (148 - 176 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
  12. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken your move, chief
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    CB Pinsir seems cool in the same manner as CB Rampardos, because you can OHKO most of those Sturdy SR setters from the get-go with Close Combat. CC from Adamant Band Pinsir does 94.35 - 111.29% to standard Golem (68.75% chance to OHKO) which is honestly a pretty good shot at OHKOing and I'd likely run that risk rather than go for a spinner. Sounds really cool, though.

    I dunno what my alt will be yet (zebRAIKOUn maybe) but I'll be playing with either Tauros or Pinsir because they're both awesome and I wrote their analyses.
  13. Full2Half

    Full2Half

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    wow, after just a few battles using sneasel, floatzel, and pinsir, they have all proved worthy. priority from LO sneas and float is a godsend to this team. Pinsir then cleans up the rest. Everything else is gobbled by the monster that is my custom swalot.
  14. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

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    Yeah, CB Pinsir has proved to be quite a monster so far. There isn't much that can take more than two hits from it, and with SR and paralysis support he just rofl-stomps through teams. It's also really satisfying to kill an Eelektross with Earthquake.
    Bro's already gotten me quite a few victories today.
  15. Steamroll

    Steamroll resident zombie
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    You people didn't listen to me round 1. I told you CB Pinsir wrecks face. Dibs on Tauros and Pinsir, because I love tearing shit apart and then going for the kill.

    Alt: Pinto
  16. Straw Hat

    Straw Hat

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    Alt: Firefist
    usin tauros, pinsir, and probably sneasel.
  17. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Choice Band Pinsir is a really interesting concept. It's good at demolishing Sturdy Stealth Rock users and is generally very powerful. Also, to add on to what ChaoticaMortis said, EQ'ing a Misdreavus or Haunter with Choice Band Pinsir is always enjoyable. :P

    For everyone who is using Floatzel, what set are you using? There's quite a few sets out there: Choice Band, mixed rain, Life Orb, etc. I'm thinking that something like BU / Baton Pass / Waterfall / Frustration could be useful. It'd set-up BU and attempt to sweep; anything it can't get past it'd BP on. It's an interesting concept, but Floatzel seems to be a bit too frail to execute it successfully. Another interesting concept is Flame Orb Switchroo. Floatzel is immune to Flame Orb's burn thanks to Water Veil and it can cripple stuff. Again, though, it seems like it'd be too frail to execute it successfully.

    Has anyone been using Eviolite on Swords Dance Sneasel? Life Orb/Focus Sash would probably be your first choice, but maybe Sneasel could be an effective bulky-booster? It has surprisingly high special bulk for an NFE. It's also worth noting that Sneasel is a great Psychic-type check -- especially Jynx as long as it avoids Lovely Kiss/Focus Blast -- and carrying an Eviolite helps it check them if it has Pursuit. CB Sneasel would probably be the more effective Pursuit user, but the main draw of using Eviolite on SD Sneasel isn't the fact that it makes it a monster Pursuit user; it's to make it a bulkier sweeper. I also like the fact that Sneasel resists the most common priority in Sucker Punch. However, it is weak to increasingly popular Gurdurr's priority.

    I of course love Tauros. I like using Sub / Return / EQ / Zen Headbutt with Intimidate and Spikes support. It's also pretty good on offensive teams; something that is so fast and has good physical bulk is very useful for offensive teams! Sheer Force Tauros is also always good, although I hate using Rock Climb because it always misses for me and it doesn't do much more damage than Return so I usually use Return.

    Nice discussion so far! :)
  18. FLCL

    FLCL
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    Alt: Floaty Boaty

    Using Floatzel and Tauros; possibly Pinsir.
  19. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    Alt: SBGM
    Using Sneasel for sure
  20. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    [​IMG]

    So, I think I'm qualified for Bronze Class right? I'll keep laddering though, thoughts on Tauros will be coming soon. DTC, I hate Pastebin, so is it okay if I just post my team here? I'll do it for now, if it's not okay I'll bring it to PB.

    Show Hide
    Haunter (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Destiny Bond

    Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Rock Climb
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake

    Lumpy (Golem) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spd
    Hardy Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Sucker Punch
    - Rock Blast
    - Earthquake

    'Armless (Exeggutor) (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Leaf Storm
    - Psychic
    - Giga Drain

    Trollface (Gurdurr) (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Payback

    Vaughn (Magmortar) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 20 Atk / 236 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Mach Punch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
  21. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Cherub Agent, if you haven't already noticed, your Golem has a Hardy nature.
  22. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    holy... thanks for pointing that out man >_>
  23. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    1250 is a lot more achievable ...

    ok I will give this a try

    alt - Ampharos.
    Pokemon - Tauros
  24. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Ok, so grinded my way through the ladder in a haxxy fashion. Mostly to my favor, but I was derping quite hard... =/ (and sorry for everyone i was getting mad at for no reason lol)

    I don't actually know how to put up screenshots on the internet (technically inept as a 5-year-old)

    alt: dat some bulls
    Pokemon: Tauros
    current ladder: 1256

    I found that Tauros isn't half a bad Pokemon, but the competition really really kills it. Earlier, I was using a substitute set, but it was just simply too weak. Also, tried using a special attack with just the sheer force bonus (and not Life Orb) but it was just way to friggin weak. Those who faced me, you know who you are. I'm sure I was rofling as hard as you guys were.. I did my simple maths, too, and figured that adding that Life orb isn't really going to help. (Ice beam barely 2hkoes GOLEM for hell's sake. Without LO, you may even miss the 3HKO with the Lefties recovery, assuming the one i faced wasn't a stupid SpDef Golem)

    Without the special attacking options, what are we left with Tauros? We're left with a solid Pokemon (an extremely solid one, I might add!), but not a master of anything. It has the speed, but Cinccino and Swellow does, too. It's moderately bulky, but so is Kangaskhan and Braviary. Without CB, it's kind of weak, but with CB it's easily walled by resistances, and ghosts suck. CB Double-Edge is there if you want all the power in the universe, but it loses its bulk, a big thing over Cinccino.

    I guess it's because the normal-types are all quite similar, but in a lot of situations, I wished I had Cinccino to break substitutes, Swellow / Kangaskhan for priority, or Cinccino for the U-turn, etc. instead. Of course, I also had situations where I needed that Intimidate, reliable damage (as opposed to lucking with Cinccino), lack of SR weakness, etc. It's a situational give-and-take, I suppose.
  25. Dangerous

    Dangerous

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    I'll give Tauros a shot as well.

    Also, can someone explain to me what 'earning a spot in the Hall of Fame' does exactly?

    Alt: acesulfame
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