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Research Week #9 - Lampent, Simipour, Eelektross, Beheeyem

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by DTC, May 6, 2012.

  1. DTC

    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnus

    May 8, 2011
    NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Week aids in helping explore the tier, and is especially effective right now as NU is relatively balanced. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU.

    Some rules:
    -Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize!
    -Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them.
    -Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
    -Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 4 Pokemon we are "researching". Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect the next research week to have all the Pokemon you suggested, or any of them.

    Anyways, the 4 Pokemon we will be looking into for this Research Week are:

    [​IMG] With so few Ghost-type pokemon being available in the tier, it's surprising to see such a viable pokemon fall to the wayside. Its Fire-typing truly distinguishes it from rivals such as Misdreavus and Drifblim, and Lampent can good use of it in a number of different ways. Its STAB Fire Blast is surprisingly powerful even without investment, and allows Lampent to take on Grass- and Bug-types with ease, while also 2HKOing Cryogonal. Access to the near-exclusive Flash Fire ability also allows it to deal with attackers such as Magmortar and Emboar effortlessly, while its support movepool contains gems such as Trick Room and Memento, as well as the more common Will-O-Wisp, Pain Split and Destiny Bond.

    [​IMG] Arguably the most useful of the Simi-trio, Simipour makes a fine offensive pokemon that is unfortunately forever cast in the shadows of Samurott and Gorebyss. Like most offensive Water-type pokemon, it has access to powerful STAB in Hydro Pump and the excellent Ice Beam, but Simipour can also make good use of Grass Knot, Focus Blast, and even physical moves such as Rock Slide and Crunch for niche targets. Furthermore, with base 101 Speed, it outspeeds a significant proportion of the tier even with a Modest nature, letting it revenge-kill opponents such as Sawk and Magmortar much more effectively than its competition. While it doesn't have Shell Smash, it has the next best thing in Nasty Plot, and it makes good use of the move by forcing opponents out with its high initial offensive presence.

    [​IMG] With excellent mixed attacking stats, respectable bulk and a great no-weaknesses typing, Eelektross makes a superb tank that can use a wide variety of techniques to KO its opposition. On the one hand, its access to special coverage moves such as Flamethrower, Grass Knot and Acid Spray, as well as a powerful STAB Volt Switch, makes it a great special attacker that can hit almost any opponent hard, and use Volt Switch to seize momentum from anything it can't. On the other hand, it can use Coil to become a dangerous physical booster, sweeping through opponents with powerful STAB Wild Charges or shuffling them into hazards repeatedly with Dragon Tail. Eelektross' unpredictability can also make it hard for opponents to deal with it, as checks for the special attacker are often defeated by the Coil set and vice versa.

    [​IMG] While not as bulky as Musharna or as diverse as Gardevoir, Beheeyem has a number of offensive options that help distinguish it from its rivals, making it a tightly-focused but powerful sweeper in capable hands. As one of the only pokemon in the tier with access to both Trick Room and Nasty Plot, Beheeyem finds plenty of opportunities to sweep offensive teams that rely on outspeeding it to deal with it. This is further augmented by its astounding base 125 Special Attack, its terrible base 45 Speed, and its decent bulk and defensive typing. If Trick Room isn't compatible with your team line-up, it can use Recover to heal off residual Life Orb and entry hazard damage, or Thunder Wave to paralyse opponents as they switch in, to get the jump on them the following turn.

    (cheers to erisia for the descriptions!)

    The Research Week Challenge:

    • Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team
    • Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 1400 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1325 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1250 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team.
    • Users will be expected to post their experiences with the pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encoutered while trying to make the said pokemon work.
    • If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.

    In order to participate in the challenge, simply post here with a brand new alt. Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

    Don't forget you're not just limited to this topic to discuss these Pokemon, I encourage you to talk about them on the #neverused irc chat as well! At the end of the week I hope we can reach a general consensus on how good these Pokemon really are, and maybe we might find some interesting discoveries.

    One person will get chosen as the Research Week Champion for this week. This will be decided by me; the person who ladders the most and contributes to the research week discussion the most will get temporary Half Op status on #neverused and they will potentially get a few other perks! Good luck all!

    Research Week Hall of Fame (open)

    Gold Class: 1400+

    Silver Class: 1325-1399

    Bronze Class: 1250-1324

    I promise I'll keep this hof actually updated lol

    Also, please add some more substance to your post other than "alt: x, using x". Feel free to theorymon a bit about the 'mons.
  2. erisia

    erisia former global moderator™
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Nov 29, 2011
    I'd compete this time, but I can't seem to connect to the server from university at the moment, and with exams and other pre-occupations, I don't really have the time to ladder any more.

    However, I'd like to say that Lampent and Eelektross should be particularly interesting to evaluate this research week. People seem to be adamant that Lampent is crap, but it has the undeniable ability to beat all Magmortar that lack Earthquake, can provide Trick Room support, and can hit stuff surprisingly hard with its STAB attacks. Meanwhile, I am determined for Eelektross to find a valuable niche within the tier. I think Volt Switch / Flamethrower / Grass Knot / Thunder Wave has a lot of potential, but the conventional Acid Spray and Coil sets will probably also be pretty good. SubCoil Eelektross was a beast when I used it.

    I was really struggling to find a reason to use Beheeyem, however. I'd much rather use Musharna in pretty much any situation due to its far superior bulk and lower Speed, but I suppose Trick Room + Nasty Plot is pretty cool, or at least I gather from the combo's popularity in RU.
  3. Raseri

    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 4, 2007
    alt: xraseri
    using Eelektross or Lampent

    Eel looks like the best mon this week by far, he's already fairly common in the metagame but is never really explored. His only bad stats is speed, and a set that focuses on his bulk and great movepool might be possible. Eel has jsut the right stats to run a wide variety of sets which is what makes him so unpredictable. I get surprised by the coil set every time.
  4. Psychotic

    Psychotic Banned deucer.

    Oct 2, 2010
    Alt: PsychoTest
    I will probably try all of them, I'm just beginning to get into NU after getting bored of UU.

    Beginning with Trick Room, using Beheem and Dbond Trick Room Lampent with a Focus Sash.
  5. TROP

    TROP ur a faget
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Apr 6, 2011
    Simipour sounds like the best for what I like so using him. Sounds like a weaker but faster Samurott with great coverage so I expect him to be good as I really enjoy using Special Samurott, probably not NP though as it is not unexpected enough for me so trying something else like a possible mixed set to remove Cryogonal easier or a sub+3 attacks.

    Lampent and Beeheyem together seem interesting too as they have decent synergy and in Lampent case Memento is so good to get another guy for having fun while Trick Room is up and allow it to come in unscratched.

    Because Simipour looks easier for now starting with him, switching to Lampent and Beeheyem once I can evaluate simipour properly.

    Alt:Trop RW(can't think of something else) ;_;.
  6. FLCL

    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Mar 14, 2010
    Alt: Simipour

    Using Simipour!?

    I've never actually used Simipour in NU before, but from what I've gathered it's pretty much outclassed by Samurott, Ludicolo, and especially Gorebyss as a Water/Ice/Grass coverage sweeper. It is extremely prone to revenge killing from both Scarfers and priority due to it's horrible bulk. Gorebyss and Ludicolo has enough bulk to survive most priority attacks and Samurott has Aqua Jet. The one saving grace Simipour has is its initial speed, which allows it to beat a large amount of foes without having to set up first. However, it must compete with Floatzel in that department. I still believe that Simipour is worth a try, especially since Jynx is no longer here, but don't expect me to be running the standard Nasty Plot set if you see me on the ladder!
  7. Upside


    Apr 5, 2009
    Used Simipour and Lampent a little bit. Simipour was actually decent. I'm running a SubPlot set with Hydropump and Ice Beam. Not the greatest coverage, but SubPlot gets to set up fairly often and it's pretty fun to roll. With his mono-water typing, Simipour can take a surprising amount of damage. Not that he's going to be tanking anything, but the Subs seem to be able to withstand hits from the majority of tanks, nix obvious stuff like Tangela.

    Lampent is a little meh. I've been running a Trick Room set with Memento to support a bulky team. Honestly, it lacks any kind of power. Its typing allows it to come in and set up Trick Room fairly often but it can't do much outside of that. I'll probably replace Memento with Calm Mind to see if I can coax a bit more power out of the set. Additionally, with all the switches he can force, a specs set might be viable. Lots of powerful pokes like to take advantage of a choice-locked fire move though, so it'd have to be on a specific team with something like Alomoola (Or whatever that fish thing is.) Base 95 SpAtk is very underwhelming so far, even with a power STAB move in Fire Blast. I honestly thought Lampent was going to be a lot stronger.

    Alt is UpsideVII btw
  8. Graceclaw


    Apr 24, 2011
    Using Lampent and Simipour, alt: Whistler

    I've toyed with Simipour, but since I'm a scarf-crazy person almost never used him.....gunna try a sub+3 attacks and see how that works.

    For now gunna try a Specs Lampent with a cool idea I thought up that probably won't work but here's hoping :) Hopefully I can make up for his atrocious speed and make use of a cool move he has ^^

    Might play around with an Acid Spray Eel later, but I've never really been able to make an Eelektross work very well. Maybe because I tried to use it when I was much more inexperienced.

    Trick Room's not really my style, so Beyeheem really doesn't appeal too much to me- maybe if I get good enough at spreading para with this team I'll throw him on so he can obliterate some stuff.
  9. breh

    breh 強いだね

    Feb 6, 2010
    going to try BEM under the alt BEM (if that alt isn't used yet; I'll edit this in later)

    EDIT: Oobeemu is the name
  10. nyttyn

    nyttyn Nueeeeeeeeeeeeen!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributor

    Sep 8, 2010
    Alt: Phoenix Trite
    Using: Semipour

    Looks like a interesting alternative to Gorebyss. It has coverage, outspeeds basically everything that isn't scarfed, and has a respectable base SpAtk, making a 3 attacks + nasty plot set looking like a pretty good pokemon.
  11. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken underdog of the year
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Oct 7, 2011
    going to play with simipour, looks fun. interesting fact: flying gem acrobatics ohkoes both 252 hp ludicolo and defensive cryogonal after SR

    no idea what the alt will be yet
  12. nyttyn

    nyttyn Nueeeeeeeeeeeeen!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributor

    Sep 8, 2010
    Would this be before or after atk EVs?

    Because if it's before holy shit
  13. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken underdog of the year
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Oct 7, 2011
    4 Atk Flying Gem Simipour's Acrobatics (neutral nature) vs

    252/0 Ludicolo: 312-368 (85.71 - 101.09%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    0/0 Ludicolo: 314-370 (103.97 - 122.51%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252/0 Cryogonal: 283-334 (82.26 - 97.09%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    0/0 Cryogonal: 287-338 (102.13 - 120.28%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  14. NuclearMedicineT


    Apr 21, 2012
    Gonna use Beheeyem for sure. A CM set with instant recovery looks very attractive on paper. The Trick Room + Nasty Plot set looks pretty cool as well.
    Alt: Beheeyemoth
  15. Django

    Django Started from the bottom...
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Oct 23, 2009
    alt: send me a file.

    Time to re-kindle DTC's love affair with Scarf Simipour, the true champion. In reality though I'll probably just use Eeelektross, its got so much going for it and I'm pretty surprised its here tbh, but I guess it deserves more usage than it currently gets.
  16. Buckles


    Jun 15, 2008
    Alt: Roswell
    Using: Beheeyem, the one true pimp.

    I figure since Trick Plot works so well for Cofagrigus in RU, why not for Beheeyem down here. Might use him with Gurdurr to dispose of Absols and junk. His special attack is as high as Eggy, and we all know how hard that thing hits.
  17. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Sep 13, 2011
    I'm using lampent on my team at the moment, as it fills a nice niche, that of being able to switch in on fire-types very well and having a lovely ghost-typing. Having run some calcs, it basically takes special hits as well as Flareon, meaning it should be able to effectively wall Magmortar, Charizard etc. Alt: shnen the researcher
  18. Full2Half


    Dec 18, 2011
    Imma use some simipour and possibly beheeyem
    Alt: Simidownpour

    A lure set with simipour might be fairly interesting, as ive used one with simisage to great success, maybe hydro pump, waterfall (assuming it learns it), crunch, and low kick with life orb. Beheeyem may also be interesting, i think it may function pretty well as a special tank, but who knows?
  19. AyoGabos


    Jan 30, 2012
    I think with access to Flash Fire that Lampent could find an interesting place on most teams. I would use Lampent if I was participating, yet I am currently working on a Rain Team at the moment so the timing was bad /:
  20. Omicron

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Feb 17, 2010
    Alt: -dayum-
    Mons: prolly all of them lol
  21. 1996ITO


    Jun 21, 2011
    Alt: Boonga Loonga1
    Pokémon I will use: I'll try the four at a fist attempt...
  22. Stop that Dragonite

    Stop that Dragonite

    May 5, 2012
    Alt: Simipourn

    Going to use a Specs Simipour because of his decent speed and great movepool. Never been a fan of Lampent or Beheyeem, but Eelektross is an unpredictable beast.
  23. oSPYD3RMANo


    Apr 7, 2012
    alt: speak2me

    beheeyem just because im going to beheeyem
  24. Straw Hat

    Straw Hat

    Mar 5, 2011
    alt: Straw RW
    using simipour
  25. Buckles


    Jun 15, 2008
    I don't like being up against Eelektross. Facing it is always a mindgame since it hits so hard and has such ludicrous coverage, not to mention it just jumps around with Volt Switch. He's just bulky enough to not be easy to take down with an unboosted move too, so he forces a LOT of switching. Just glad I don't see that many special attacker versions running around.

    As for my choice, Beheeyem, I can say I am pretty impressed with the Nasty Plot Trick Roomer. He's no Cofagrigus, less bulk and worse coverage assures that, but he can tear holes in teams without Absol/Skuntank or Probopass/Bastiodon (who are total setup bait without Toxic). I've been using Shadow Ball as my coverage move to take care of other psychics and Misdreavus, but I've considered T-Bolt for the higher BP and better neutral coverage, not to mention OHKO on Samurott.

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