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Research Week - Arceus

Discussion in 'Ubers' started by Theorymon, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    That would be nice, yeah. I mean, some guy I was battling today tried to Frenzy Plant my Steel Farceus, and then complained I was using Ubers. :naughty:
  2. ZapdosBlitz

    ZapdosBlitz

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    I have discussed this set with some people on #stark and is planning to test this set for a while

    Spinblocker Arceus

    Arceus @Spooky Plate
    Ability :Multitype
    EV:100 on everything but attack
    Nature :Timid
    -Judgment
    -Flamethrower/Fire Blast
    -Recover
    -/Earthquake/Refresh

    Arceus have several advantages over the Giratina and Giratina-o in term of spinblocking,the most notable one being Recover,with Recover,Arceus doesn't have to worry to switch on Forretress Payback as it can recover all the damage taken.It also lack the dragon typing and higher speed which mean it can revenge the likes of Rayquaza better.Giratina-o does have it's own niche in levitate and secondary STAB,though.

    Judgment is a strong STAB to hit Giratina/-o Mewtwo and Lati@s and it also hit Rayquaza hard.Fire Blast hit Forry,the most common spinblocker seen in uber,and it also make ghost Arceus a good SDLuke counter as it is faster and immune to Extremespeed.Recover is a given.The last slot is mainly a filler.Earthquake can be used to hit Heatran and dent Dialga and Tyranitar.Refresh can help Arceus get rid of status,most notably poison

    EDIT:I put Flamethrower beside Fire Blast due to the abundance of Pressure ability in ubers,accuracy,and it KO's both Forry and Luke anyway
  3. calze6

    calze6

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    Hey zapdos. Nice set. Arceus has a lot of advantages over giratina-o due to better stats and movepool. However, I'd go ice beam on the last spot for dragon coverage.
  4. ZapdosBlitz

    ZapdosBlitz

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    what about Shadow Ball over Dark Pulse?not only you get unresisted coverage but the spdef drop chance can be useful to hit Wobbuffet on the switch and on CMWars.
  5. ZetoTarken

    ZetoTarken

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    For purposes of ubers Dark/Fighting is also unresisted coverage(Fighting+ Poison Flying or Bug are the only things that resist that combo and those are basically non-existent in ubers or easily muscled over) so the 20% Flinch is chosen over 10% SpDef Drop.
  6. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    The occasional Heracross (Who's actually quite good in Ubers) resists Dark/Fighting.
  7. ZetoTarken

    ZetoTarken

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    True, but Judgement does more damage after STAB+Fist Plate boost than a neutral Shadow Ball on a 1x resist.
    Shadow Ball, no boosts to ScarfCross
    301 Atk vs 226 Def & 301 HP (80 Base Power): 77 - 91 (25.58% - 30.23%)
    Judgement, no boosts to ScarfCross(Listed as 120 power from Fist Plate Boost)
    301 Atk vs 226 Def & 301 HP (120 Base Power): 86 - 102 (28.57% - 33.89%)
    So even though Shadow Ball will out damage Dark Pulse on things that resist Dark and Fighting, Judgement will out damage Shadow Ball.
  8. Hugendugen

    Hugendugen Noam Chompsky.
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    Considering the fact that you are Timid and running 0-8 attack, wouldn't Earth Power be a better choice than Earthquake? I haven't run the calcs but I suggest that you at least add Earth Power as another option on that set. I understand if you want to hit Blissey harder, but EQ from that Arceus does pretty insignificant damage even to Blissey.
  9. Private Piplup

    Private Piplup

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    Seeing as how PO doesn't change Arceus' type until after hazards damage, I think that Ice Arceus may not be too bad. Judgement+Thunder is pretty good coverage, although Heatran and Ho-oh in sun may give you trouble. I think Zap Plate is better though, as Timid Electric Arceus really only fears CB-Garchomp, as it outspeeds and KO's Groudon with a +1 Ice beam (assuming you get a CM on the switch).
  10. Theorymon

    Theorymon You have a fever. I prescribe more dead angels.
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    This was actually fixed in a recent update if I recall.
  11. Farewell

    Farewell

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    Does anyone else see the potential in Roceus?
  12. tripe

    tripe

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    Without Sandstorm, the whole niche in Rock arceus is gone. Unless you carry your own Tyranitar, there's a likely chance that it'll be sunny or rainy. Rain is a huge bane on this Arceus, especially since Kyogre can come in and start calm minding, forcing you out. Enemy Groudon can easily come and start earthquaking, or even worse set up rock polish/swords dance. This set seems seems to only hit Ho-oh hard really.
  13. Great Sage

    Great Sage

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    Water Arceus with Swords Dance / Waterfall / Dragon Claw / Substitute is quite effective if you have Kyogre in your team. Rain-boosted Waterfall is obviously your main attack, while Dragon Claw hits Pokemon that both resist Waterfall and are weak to Dragon Claw, like Palkia and Latias. I have generally found Substitute to be the most useful filler move, because it lets Arceus set up on defensive Pokemon like Blissey and Forretress without worrying about Toxic or Explosion. You can also try Recover and Extremespeed over Substitute if you want. There are two major problems to this set: Groudon and fast special attackers. Groudon's sun completely neuters this set's effectiveness, so it might be desirable to run a Wobbuffet or bait Dialga to murder it. It's really unfortunate that Farceus can't outrun Latias and Latios, which can maul it with Grass Knot or Thunder; Palkia is problematic regardless, as is Kyogre with Thunder (hint: Waterfall does more to Kyogre than Dragon Claw).
  14. deluge

    deluge

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    Not sure how well this would work because I haven't been playing but I'm putting it out there since no one else mentioned it:

    Modest Arceus@Choice Specs
    ~Judgement
    ~Overheat
    ~Dracometeor
    ~Trick/Earth power

    Being saddled with Normal type Judgement as his most reliable attack isn't ideal but Arceus has an enviable supporting cast of moves to back it up.
    Though Normal lacks SE coverage Judgement still OHKOs some less bulky targets at +1 and 2HKOs others such as Groudon.
    Overheat covers Steel types who would resist your STAB attack.
    Dracometeor is for the tier's most common ghost but allows Heatran to resist your entire set.
    Usual switch-ins to Extremekiller (eg. Lugia) won't like being Tricked Specs and it should also be useful to cripple Blissey.

    The obvious obstacles are bulky Ghost Arceus, Heatran, and to some extent Kyogre (Dialga can be 2HKOd by Dracometeor).
    Obviously, Trick could be sacrificed for a coverage move but then it's harder to cripple walls.

    The 100 EV Cap really screws with some of its power though.
    The 152 lost EVs costs Judgement an OHKO on Taunt/CM Mewtwo (with SR), for example.
    Sun-boosted Overheat would OHKO Groudon as well, if SpA EVs could be maxed and there would be guaranteed 2HKOs, with Judgement, against most Kyogre variants.
  15. Theorymon

    Theorymon You have a fever. I prescribe more dead angels.
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    Sadly, due to Multitype, Arceus can't actually use Trick despite knowing it. It just always fails when used.
  16. Alan

    Alan

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    just wanted to say about spin blocker arceus, a set of:

    Arceus @ Spooky Plate
    evs: no speed
    brave nature
    -substitute
    -shadow claw
    -recover
    -cosmic power / toxic / brick break

    also works. shadow claw makes sure wobb cant fuck you up with counter or mirror coat (with judgement and shadow ball it can) sub blocks status. recover heals. last moveslot is filler. cosmic power makes your subs unbreakable, barring crits. toxic can hurt stuff like groudon/kyogre who may/may not try to set up on you. brick break keeps blissey from walling you.
  17. deluge

    deluge

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    Oh wow, I thought it only failed if you were holding a plate (kind of like Giratina's orb).
    That's unfortunate and reduces the utility of any choiced set a whole lot.
  18. ZetoTarken

    ZetoTarken

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    Nope, Multitype prevents trick period. If you're holding an elemental plate then Multitype prevents Knock Off, Thief, or Covet from taking your item.
  19. thenovice

    thenovice

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    Yeah, I'm testing Electric Arceus right now, and it's pretty good.

    Arceus @Zap Plate
    Ability :Multitype
    EV:100 on everything but attack
    Nature :Timid
    -Thunder
    -Ice Beam
    -Recover
    -Calm Mind

    Using Kyogre with this Arceus is a must bacause of Thunder. STAB Thunder and Ice Beam give near perfect coverage in Ubers (bar Shedinja, and the rare Magnezone/ton), and Arceus can use them alongside CM to sweep a team. The awesome power of Thunder after a CM (most of the time, 2-3 CM) is quite impressive, hitting Ubers not resist Electric for at least 70% with the exception of Blissey, Deoxys-D (52.3% - 61.5%) and Mew (55.7% - 65.6%), however those two cant hit back hard enough to win against Arceus. +1 Ice beam hits pokemon that resist Electric, such as Giratina (2HKO after SR + 1 layer of Spikes) or Latias. The 30% par chance of Thunder is also useful when I have to face sth like Latias switching into a Thunder.

    Due to the lack of weaknesses the Electric type provide, Electric Arceus is extremely hard to take down without STAB Ground attacks, and the only 2 Ground Pokemon in Ubers are Groudon and Garchomp (not counting Ground Arceus, as I havent seen one). The standard RP Groudon is destroyed by +1 Ice Beam after SR and 1 layers of Spikes (I use Forrestress to setup SR and Spikes), so the main problem for this Arceus is Jolly Garchomp. Garchomp can OHKO Arceus with Banded EQ after SR (otherwise, if I can manage to pull off a Recover, Garchomp has a chance to fail to OHKO me). Toxic Blissey is also a problem, as it can easily stall Arceus to death. Right now I'm using CM+Refresh Latias to combat those 2, but I feel that there are better solutions. On theory, A well played CM Latias can also beat Arceus in a CM war if Latias is not paralyzed, so I also have some methods to check CM Latias (I haven't had any problem with latias so far).

    So my way of ultilizing Electric Arceus right now: Kyogre for the 100% acc Thunder, SR + Spikes for the ensurance of many OHKO and 2HKO, and a way to handle Jolly Garchomp, Toxic Blissey and CM Latias. This Arceus has been working greatly so far (or maybe because of the quality of Ubers players on PO?... )

    P/s: I find that paralyzed Arceus is not always a bad thing, sure it is outsped by Groudon, but now It can actually win against Blissey (unless I am unlucky enough)

    Also, some players think that It is Normal Arceus, and try to hit it with Fighting moves, which gives me some more CMs xD
  20. ZetoTarken

    ZetoTarken

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    Use Judgement so you aren't beaten by Ho-oh in the sun.
  21. thenovice

    thenovice

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    That's why I use Kyogre. Judment is significantly weaker (it misses the OHKO on Ho-oh, assuming no SR) and doesn't have that 30% chance of paralysis which is important in some cases. Furthermore, Ho-oh is slower and cannot OHKO Arceus back with even LO Sacred Fire in the sun (66.7% - 79.1%).
  22. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    And if you miss (Which is very likely), you just gave Ho-oh a free Sub.
  23. thenovice

    thenovice

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    I don't see any point in talking about how Ho-oh can kill Arceus, and we are talking about the old power vs accuracy issue (which is imo Thunder is better). Arceus needs the power of Thunder to OHKO many threats after SR such as Palkia, Scizor, or even Mewtwo. Furthermore, keeping Rain on the field is not that hard, and Ho-oh is also stroke by SR every time it switches in, all in all I don't think Judgement is more useful than Thunder just for Ho-oh. I think the problem is very clear here, it's the same reason why people don't use Thunderbolt over Thunder in Uber.
  24. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    Its also the exact same set posted on the first page by Ibo, just with Thunder swapped for Judgement. (The Electric-type CM one)
  25. Mye

    Mye

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    Hmmm...theoretically, couldn't an insect plate work too on arceus? Maybe get a setup like 'thunder, judgement, ice beam/blizzard, solar beam/recover?

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