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Research Week - Arceus

Discussion in 'Ubers' started by Theorymon, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. ZetoTarken

    ZetoTarken

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    229
    1) Ho-oh teams have spinners so its unlikely you can keep SR up
    2) You're a CMset and 2 of the pokes you listed are special attackers... you can CM in their faces. Scizor and Palkia(Outrage) can't do more than 50% to you. The only thing you have to worry about for those three is Mewtwo exploding in your face then something revenge killing you but Thunder wouldn't save you anyway there because Mewtwo outspeeds.
    3) People don't use Thunderbolt over Thunder because the main target of Thunder is Kyogre. Well Kyogre, Manaphy, and Steels in the rain. But point is Thunder is primarily used to hit Kyogres
    Primary users of Thunder are:
    Kyogre
    Mewtwo
    Palkia
    Lati@s
    Dialga
    Giratina-O
    All of them carry it to hit Kyogre and Manaphy for SE damage since they're the only pokes weak to it.
  2. -Lux-

    -Lux-

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    Messages:
    395
    ive tried this out has won alot of battles :)

    Arceus @ leftovers

    Adamant

    EVs: 100 hp / 100 atk / 100 def / 100 sp def / 100 speed
    Moves: Waterfall/Dragonclaw - extreme speed - recover - swords dance
  3. Fuhret

    Fuhret

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    46
    Iceus@ Icicle Plate
    Bold
    100 HP/100 Def/100 SpA/100 Sp.Def/100 Speed
    0 Atk IVs
    ~Judgement
    ~Recover
    ~Substitute
    ~Calm Mind

    I don't know if it's the low quality of PO, but this sets works great. Ice gets great coverage, Subtitute blocks paralysis, and it gets good bulk. May switch to Calm to help deal with Kyogre, who most of the time becomes set-up bait late-game, or if he has already been damaged.
  4. afterburn

    afterburn rattled
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    681
    Arceus @ Fist plate
    nature: timid
    -Calm Mind
    -Recover
    -Judgment
    -Dark Pulse
    ---
    This set posted by Theorymon works quite well with the combination of Tickle Wobuffet and Pursuit Scizor. Simply because it gets rid of two of its main problems, CM Latias and Blissey. With those two removed, it can basically rampage through the remains of the opponent's team. Using Tickle Wobbuffet and Pursuit Scizor is easier in PO, because the players are.. well... less experienced..
  5. cartercr

    cartercr

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    220
    Special Tank
    Arceus @ Steel Plate
    EV's: the 8 goes to Atk
    Modest

    - Judgement/Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover

    As everyone know, Steel Types are very effective at walling in Ubers, the perdominance of Outrage gives Arceus a great chance to switch in and then effectively destroy the opponent. Steel typing also grants an immunity to poison which can prove effective if it comes down to a stall with Blissey.

    The Judgement or Calm Mind call comes down to if you want a STAB move or not. As we all know, BoltBeam is not resisted, and can effectively sweep through the Uber eviorment. If you opt Judgement out, you give up a super-effective hit against Ice or Rock types, but since neither dominate the metagame, Judgement is up for consideration. In CM's deffense, switching in on the opposing Outrage user only plays into your hand as it helps build up your SpA and SpD. Recover is listed last because It truly is only there to help survive longer.
  6. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,696
    I've used this set and it's a great counter to Lati@s. A +1 Dragon Pulse won't do much and you can just set up with them and force them out once you have enough boosts. Steel is resisted by a lot, but at +6 it will easily OHKO things that resist it. It's a much better counter to things like Lati@s, Shaymin-S, and Darkrai (provided it's slept something already) than Scizor.
  7. Gates

    Gates

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
    Messages:
    66
    So I didn't know whether to post this in the Uber Lead thread or not, but I know I can definitely post it here.

    Lead Arceus:

    Arceus @ Life Orb
    EVs: 100 HP / 100 Atk / 52 Def / 56 Spd / 100 SAtk / 100 SDef
    Hasty/Naive
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Brick Break

    So I was browsing Arceus' moveset and I noticed he had all the same moves as Lead Rayquaza and wondered if a comparable set could be made. This is my attempt at an Arceus anti-lead and it is EXTREMELY rough right now.

    The EVs are pretty obvious...Arceus can't have more than 100 in any stat. A +Spe nature seems pointless but the reason why it is used is to beat out other Arceus. Higher speed means that he will never lose a priority battle with other Arceus and the current spread means that he will also outspeed lead Rayquaza as well as non-scarfed +nature max speed base 90s and neutral nature max speed base 100s.

    There are obviously lots of attacking options on this set. I chose this specific build because I feel it deals with the broadest range of Uber leads. Other possibilities like Earthquake, Shadow Claw, Punishment, etc. can be run on it.

    You're probably wondering why you would choose lead Arceus over lead Rayquaza, and honestly there aren't many good reasons to do so. The main reasons are the added bulk and speed, but what you sacrifice to get it is a good deal of power. STAB Extremespeed is generally more useful than STAB Draco Meteor due to the fact that it's physical and priority, but other than that Arceus loses the brute force that Rayquaza has. I guess if you could make a distinction between the two, you could say that Rayquaza is for heavy offensive teams whereas Arceus is for bulky offensive teams (although there is very little difference).

    The moveset is the exact same as lead Rayquaza and it's been working solidly so far. There are a ton of other options though.

    Item choice is also a concern and in Arceus' case this means choosing between attack power and typing. I'll just go over the notable types briefly:

    Dragon
    Pros: Boosts Draco Meteor, resistance to fire, water, thunder.
    Cons: One of the most common types in Ubers, everyone will be perpared for it.

    Fire
    Pros: Boosts Fire Blast, immune to burn, resistant to ice and steel.
    Cons: Weak to the most common pokemon in Ubers, Kyogre.

    Fighting
    Pros: Boosts Brick Break, resistant to dark, psychic is a non-weakness since few psychic types in Ubers actually use psychic attacks.
    Cons: Brick Break is ineffective against many things in Ubers.

    Dark
    Pros: Immune to psychic, boosts power of Punishment if you choose to run it.
    Cons: Weak to fighting and bug.

    Ghost
    Pros: Immune to fighting and normal, boosts power of Shadow Claw/Force if you choose to run it.
    Cons: Common weaknesses.

    Ground
    Pros: Immune to Thunder Wave, boosts Earthquake if you choose to run it.
    Cons: Doesn't boost anything, common weaknesses.

    Flying
    Pros: Immune to ground.
    Cons: Doesn't boost anything, common weaknesses.

    Steel
    Pros: Immune to poison, lots of resistances.
    Cons: Doesn't boost anything, common weaknesses.

    Poison
    Pros: Immune to Toxic, absorbs Toxic Spikes, resists fighting which is commonly used against Arceus.
    Cons: Doesn't boost anything, weak to ground.

    I'm experimenting with the types, but for now Life Orb actually seems like the best item. Focus Sash is an option but Arceus is so bulky that there's nothing that can really OHKO it. Lum/Chesto Berry isn't very necessary due to Extremespeed hurting Darkrai a lot.

    A quick rundown against other Ubers leads:

    Deoxys-S - Double Extremespeed actually does not go all the way but Draco Meteor and Extremespeed do. They still set up rocks though unless they Taunt like idiots.

    Deoxys and Deoxys-A - Double Extremespeed all the way across the sky.

    Kyogre - This needs to be approached with care. Generally I Extremespeed first to reduce the power of Water Spout, a commonly used move on LeadOgres. If I see that it's choiced (at least if I think it is) after it uses its first move, I can switch to something that resists it.

    Dialga - Double Brick Break usually gets there.

    Darkrai - Extremespeed then react to what they do. If they Dark Void me I have Arceus take the sleep and switch to something else. If they try to Trick me it won't work so I just predict a switch and use Draco Meteor.

    Groudon - Draco Meteor, then Extremespeed. It depends on the spread, so this doesn't always work but in general it's a good strategy.

    Forretress - They almost always switch out so I just use Draco Meteor. If they don't, Fire Blast will still OHKO even with -2 SpA.

    Rayquaza - See what I said earlier about the EVs.

    Mew - Depends on the specific build but generally Draco Meteor into Extremespeed works.

    Tyranitar - Brick Break will take care of him.

    Mewtwo - Generally I switch out since they can hit really hard with Aura Sphere. I Extremespeed first though to check for recoil or lefties.

    Shaymin-S - Fire Blast. Flinchax can be stupid though. Extremespeed 2HKOs if you don't wanna deal with all that nonsense.

    Giratina-O - Draco Meteor. Immunity to G-O's priority move is another good point about running a normal type Arceus.

    Wobbuffet - I roll over and die. Wynaut is slightly less of a brutal raping.

    Magikarp - I tell those French hippies to go back to drinking wine and eating cheese.
    jk, j'adore les francais, n'est pas homo

    Thoughts?
  8. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
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    2,696
    STAB Extremespeed is definitely Arceus's biggest niche as a lead so you should just go with LO. LO Extremespeed (as well as Silk Scarf Extremespeed) will always 2HKO min/min Darkrai, while any other Arceus won't. Adamant Lum Berry Arceus will have a good chance to 2HKO Darkrai with Extremespeed while also being able to take Dark Void.

    The only reason I can think to use a non-STAB'd Draco Meteor is to hit Palkia with it, so you should either run 96 Spe EVs with Hasty/Naive to always outrun it or go with 100 Spe EVs to outrun everything that just barely outruns Palkia, like some Garchomp and Latias. Arceus has plenty of support options that could work well on a lead like Thunder Wave, Will-O-Wisp, and Gravity, so you should look into those as well. IMO, having Arceus completely copy Rayquaza is just a waste of its more useful moves.
  9. ak_Archangel

    ak_Archangel

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    116
    my arceus.

    Arceus-Dark plate
    nature-Timid
    Judement
    recover
    wilo-wisp
    draco meteor

    He can take down pretty much lugia,mewtwo with judgment,harm other arecues with wilo wisp and hurt anything else with draco meteor
  10. Gates

    Gates

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
    Messages:
    66
    I hadn't thought of Silk Scarf, but it seems like boosting more than 1 move would be better anyway.

    This is another option, but at the same time I don't really want to lower it's SpA that much. Of course, the more damage calcs I do the more appealing Adamant/Lonely Extremespeed looks.

    Adamant Lum is also not able to 2HKO Darkrai with 2 Extremespeeds, but it can 2HKO with Brick Break and Extremespeed.

    The thing about Palkia and Garchomp is that even though I have a higher base speed than both of them, most of the time they run Choice Scarf anyway, so there's not really any point in investing a ton of speed EVs to try and beat them. Latias doesn't run Choice Scarf but always runs Timid with around 200 speed EVs, meaning I can't really outspeed her either.

    Still, I see where you're coming from and I'll reevaluate Draco Meteor's place in this set.

    I wanted more of an attacking lead, not a supporting lead. You certainly could make him a supporting lead though, since he has the moves you mentioned plus dual screen, Trick Room, Toxic, Stealth Rock, Safeguard, and Magic Coat. My lead is just an attacking variation.

    And Gravity really sucks imo, but I won't get into that here.

    I can't really argue with this. This is mostly a work in progress. I'm still looking for more useful moves to use on him. And with your suggestions of Lum Berry and Thunder Wave it kinda seems like you're trying to turn him into Lead Dialga lol. But regardless, I see your point.
  11. Dragrath

    Dragrath

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    31
    Question what could I do with this arceus?
    Adamant
    atk 323
    def 247
    sak 244
    sdf 252
    spd 272
    seems kind weak and I don't know if the event will fail if it looses any of the original moves (Spatial Rend Roar of Time Judgment Shadow Force) yes I already used the vitamins...
  12. waterwarrior

    waterwarrior

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,552
    This may seem fairly strange, but if I had the right nature of my TRU Arceus (I will include a set for a regular Arceus too) I think it would work very well:
    Arceus
    Item: Dread Plate
    Evs: 100 hp/ 100 atk/ 10 def/ 100 sp. atk/ 100 sp. def/ 100 speed
    Nature: Hasty
    Extremespeed
    Spacial Rend if TRU/ Dragon Pulse if not
    Fire Blast/Flamethrower
    Judgement

    Since there are only a few physical sweepers in Ubers, having only 252 defense isn't too terrible as long as you have something to take the physical sweepers down just in case. Extremespeed is for faster threats who threaten to KO you, Spacial Rend/Dragon Pulse is for the multitude of Dragons ruling the Ubers tier, Fire Blast/Flamethrower is for pesky Steels, and of course its the age-old power vs. accuracy problem. Judgement is for the Psychics that also rule the Ubers tier.

    Best partners for this set is a Groudon and a Kyogre/either Giratina, Groudon to take the physical attacks and Kyogre/Giratina to take the Aura Spheres from Mewtwo, Mew, some Palkias, etc.
  13. mudkipmaster

    mudkipmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    750
    Hmmmm, Lead Arceus!

    Arceus-Dread Plate
    Jolly
    Evs:Ugh...
    Moves:
    Judgement
    Tailwind
    Thunder Wave
    Will-o-Wisp
  14. Ninnel22

    Ninnel22

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