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Research Week - Buneary, Lickitung, Snivy, and Venonat

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by Elevator Music, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    Welcome to research week! This concept has been used before last generation to help explore the options of Pokemon that could be viable but haven't been fully tested for some reason or anything. Al_Alchemist will be running a few of these to try and promote discussion in this forum and innovation in the metagame (I will help too, but I'm just posting because he had to go). In the past, these threads have typically focused on one Pokemon for a week, however we will be focusing on multiple Pokemon at once to try to generate more discussion and keep the thread from stagnating too early. For the next week, this thread will serve as a discussion for the merits of specific Pokemon in Little Cup. Some ground rules:

    - Limit discussion to the Pokemon listed in the OP. If you feel another Pokemon should be explored, please talk to myself and Al_Alchemist about it, and we will consider putting it in a future Research Week.
    - This thread is meant to encourage discussion. If you feel that one of the Pokemon has no merit in the current metagame, just make sure your post contains more than disapproval.
    - Please test a Pokemon before you post about it. We are trying to encourage posting, we also want to boost ladder activity as well.

    We will be focusing on the following Pokemon this week:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Focus on the following:

    - Figure out what moves are viable for these Pokemon.
    - Find potentially good teammates for these Pokemon.
    - Figure out what kind of teams these Pokemon perform well on.
    - Figure out what kind of support these Pokemon may need to be productive.
  2. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    Lickitung works great with Slowbro, who can handle physical fighting types. He's extremely bulky with eviolite, making it a good candidate for a RestTalk set (deals with Hypnosis Gastly as well)
  3. pimpgangster

    pimpgangster

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    I faced a Leaf Storm Glare Snivy that got lucky and stopped my Scraggy and Drillbur sweeps cold. Also Klutz Buneary with Scarf is nice with Switcheroo
  4. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    Buneary's attack and speed are surprisingly good. 16 attack and 19 speed with base 102 stab is definitely usable. It can drain punch/jump kick, has all 3 elemental punches, circle throw for predicting switches, and shadow ball to 2hko gastly. Incredible support movepool too, not limited to switcheroo (with klutz!), encore (with 19 speed!!!), and baton pass (mostly subs and agility, but encore + sub passing off 19 speed is definitely fun). Entrainment (makes the foe's ability match yours) + klutz works as a pseudo knock off.

    Slowpoke unfortunately walls it, but outside that it really doesn't have any counters. Meinfoo hates flame orb trickeroo (burns it AND takes away its eviolite), making buneary a very solid lure.

    I'll post more later
  5. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    Something that is as versatile as buneary can't have a surefire counter, but there are almost always one, two or more pokes on your team that can deal with it once you know the set. I don't think Entrainment is worth the moveslot though, as they gain their normal ability back once they switch out.
  6. Mushrooms

    Mushrooms

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    Venonat could be a good Agility Passer since it has Compoundeyes and Sleep Powder to abuse. Venonat can also utilize an effective double-powder strategy as well with Sleep Powder and Stun Spore. Compoundeyes helps here, too, by boosting the moves' accuracy up to 97,5%. Strong physical attackers lacking speed, such as Cranidos and Cubone, are good candidates for recipients.

    Buneary is very versatile. As mentioned earlier, he has many options to choose from both the offensive and the supportive side.

    Snivy is somewhat of an oddball. Mediocre stats all around, except for his speed. This would fit better on a more offensive pokemon. However, Snivy sports the niche of being the only pokemon with Taunt and Dual Screens, which can be very helpful. Frail sweepers, such as Clamperl and Gastly, can easily take advantage of this.

    Although sun teams being almost non-existent anymore, Lickitung can still perfom very well with a ResTalk set as mentioned before.
  7. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Snivy is a pretty solid dual screener, seeing as the standard Chinchou set no longer runs Ice Beam and Hidden Power Fire fails to 2HKO. I've seen it quite a bit on ladder, and it's pretty annoying. However, it usually fails to do much damage. It'll be a lot better when Contrary gets released, as Leaf Storm will let it do obscene amounts of damage. Rise of Sap Sipper Deerling anyone?
  8. polop

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    Lickitung doesn't have to run rest talk, in fact i found it to be a decent cleric since it gets wish and heal bell. Restoring 14 points of an allies hp which is very helpful for "insert pokemon with 19 hp for Life Orb recoil" and it can still be a pretty decent tank that can take hits with its base 90/75/75 defenses. Sadly it cant use wish or heal bell with cloud nine so it has to use the lesser own tempo.

    Snivy does lack reliable recovery outside of leech seed (which isnt very reliable) and rest, but if it does go for rest it can take a defensive route to utilize the fact it gets coil or cm, but in my experience, the coil one has often been set up on by dd scraggy. The calm mind variant suprises people and it isn't too physically frail to not deserve a mention.

    EDIT: According to seven deadly sins wish + heal bell is illegal PO is wrong

    EDIT:
    Show Hide
    <&SevenDeadlySins> heal bell is illegal with wish
    <polop> it is but lickitung can use own tempo then over cloud nine
    <polop> its legal
    <polop> both are event
    <&SevenDeadlySins> wish is nypc and heal bell is xd iirc
    <&SevenDeadlySins> but idk
    <polop> i thought it was 4th gen move tutor
    <&SevenDeadlySins> http://www.serebii.net/events/dex/108.shtml
    <&SevenDeadlySins> it is but it doesnt get it via the platinum tutor
    <polop> odd then PO considers the 2 together to be legal
    <&SevenDeadlySins> po is wrong
    <polop> sadly


    EDIT2: never mind its legal
  9. Diana

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    From the experience I've had with Snivy in the past, it really is a solid dual screener. It works really well with things that resist Fire such as Nasty Plot Houndour. I figure that a Flying resist would probably work better now, though I'll have to test a bit more on that end when I'm not half asleep.
  10. Mr.L

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    Venonat is good as it resists Fighting (4x?), has near 100% Double powder, and Disable/Giga Drain to round out the set.

    Snivy, what everyone else said xD Glare/Dual Screens let it take on a Support role, and when Contrary is released, it'll be an amazing scarf sweeper.

    Lickitung...need i say more?

    I don't know what to say about Buneary. I used her in NFE, but that's the only experience i have with Buneary/Lopunny.
  11. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
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    Now there's been a lot of talk about how Lickitung is a defensive beast but what about the fact that it has both the movepool and the stats to be an excellent wallbreaker? 55 Attack and 60 Special Attack are really nothing to laugh at, and it has Swords Dance, STAB Return as well as Power Whip to take care of Chinchou, Staryu, and Frillish and Fire Punch to annihilate Ferroseed. In all honesty the only thing really holding offensive Lickitung back are really strong Fighting-types, and if you can get those out of the way Lickitung can have an absolute field day.
  12. Elevator Music

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    I've been testing out a few things, but the best set I've found all day has been the following:

    [​IMG]
    Venonat @ Eviolite
    Ability: Tinted Lens
    EVs: 36 HP / 116 Def / 116 SpA / 156 SpD / 76 Spe
    Bold Nature
    - Substitute
    - Disable
    - Morning Sun
    - Signal Beam

    This works really well with entry hazard support, particularly Stealth Rock, although Toxic Spikes are pretty nice too. Substitute+Disable can force lots of switches, while Morning Sun recovery is nice when you get free turns. Signal Beam is a pretty nice move, mono Bug-type attacks are generally pretty crappy, but Tinted Lens helps to alleviate that. Bug Buzz would be better, but I guess the confusion chance is pretty nifty...
  13. Blue_Star

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    It's funny because I built a baton chain that included Buneary and Venonat, but they worked in a weird manner.

    I used venonat like this:
    Venonat (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Compoundeyes
    EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Agility
    - Sleep Powder
    - Baton Pass
    - Bug Bite

    This set rocks, it can survive any attack thanks to focus sash (barring Dwebble's Rock Blast), use a 97% accurate Sleep Powder, use Agillity and start off a baton chain with +2 speed frequently. And Bunneary worked like this:
    Buneary (F) @ Eviolite Trait: Run Away
    EVs: 156 HP / 84 Def / 236 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Encore
    - Agility
    - Baton Pass


    Ok, it's used mainly because Gastly is so common. It can easily switch on a Shadow Ball, use Encore, then get free agillitys, or just kill off gastly with Shadow Ball. Works extremely well when you pass to something like a 4 attacks moxie scraggy.
  14. Al_Alchemist

    Al_Alchemist Physics and Math \O/
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    @Blue_Star: Wouldn't Limber be the better ability on Buneary, since Run Away is useless? It's already been released from Dreamworld it seems.

    I've recently been using a SD Lickitung + AgilityPass Venonat combo to mild success.

    [​IMG]

    Lickitung (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Cloud Nine
    EVs: 116 HP / 236 Atk / 116 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Swords Dance
    - Return
    - Hammer Arm
    - Zen Headbutt

    After a Swords Dance it can OHKO Eviolite Staryu with Return, OHKO Scraggy with Hammer Arm, OHKO Bulky Mienfoo with ZHB + SR, 2HKO Slowpoke with Return. After an Agility is Baton Passed to it, it sits at 22 Speed which is to outspeed 14 Speed CS Pokemon and it definitely has the bulk to withstand two or three blows. It has 27 HP and 14 Defenses (before Eviolite) which is the same defenses as a Standard Wynaut, meaning it can survive crazy crap like a Scraggy HJK (before a Dragon Dance though :P).

    I have no illusions that this would be sweeping most teams, however, it does usually take out 2 or 3 Pokemon per game, considering how easy it is to set-up and hard it is to stop without sacrificing something.

    [​IMG]
    Venonat (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Compoundeyes
    EVs: 196 HP / 36 Def / 36 SpA / 236 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Agility
    - Baton Pass
    - Signal Beam

    Pretty much the same as Blue_Star's Venonat, but I prefer the confusion chance and the ability to hit Slowpoke harder, rather than stealing the now rare Oran Berry (only Wynaut and Gastly are common Pokemon that sometimes use it). But Venonat is already well known for it's ability to Sleep Powder + Baton Pass. The HP EVs make it survive 3 Rock Blast multi-hits from a Max Attack Jolly Dwebble on average.

    It's amazing how much Compoundeyes Sleep Powder misses though D:

    I also like to pair Venonat with Wynaut, just because it can usually take out 2 Pokemon a game that way with a speedy Destiny Bond.

    Thanks for posting the thread EM :)
  15. Darkamber8828

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    Agilipass+Hammer Arm? Really? I'd just drop Cloud Nine for Own Tempo and Hammer Arm for Fire Punch. I actually tried Venonat+Lickitung, but with Power Whip>ZHB, and I think yours is better ._.

    I also used Substitute over Signal Beam/Bug Bite, because I was never attacking with them, and Substitute is handy for blocking status (from morons) and passing.

    I actually played against a LO Tinted AgilityNat, and it wasn't horrible. Sleep Powder on a slowmon, Agility Up and go to town with Sludge Bomb/Psychic. I don't remember if I won, but I do remember it was really annoying. Handy 4x Fighting resist.
  16. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
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    derp, I didn't know that limber was released, but it's better
  17. Al_Alchemist

    Al_Alchemist Physics and Math \O/
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    @Darkamber8828: I prefer being able to OHKO Scraggy over Ferroseed, but yeah Hammer Arm probably isn't the best option for outright sweeping. Still gets 16 Speed after a Hammer Arm though. Cloud Nine is pretty nifty for making Snover miss with Blizzard though :P

    Venonat should probably shy away from going completely offensive, however, since it only has 14 SpA when maxed out so you probably wouldn't OHKO anything that isn't weak to Poison/Psychic with an Eviolite.
  18. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    No wonder I've been seeing so many damn Venonat...

    I never realized how bleeding effective it was. Sleep is REALLY hard for some teams to deal with (mine).
  19. Saijo

    Saijo

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    [​IMG]
    Snivy (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 236 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Leaf Blade
    - Frustration
    - Substitute/Taunt


    i will try test this tomorrow. Sword Dancer basic, Leaf Blade+Substitute+Overglow is amazing. Spe is a 17 and Atk is a 14 which can be good. Taunt is filler like Frustation. I think it's cool, but the lack of physical move condemns =/


    What do you think?
  20. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Doesn't Treecko do it better?
  21. Saijo

    Saijo

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    yeah it's true. Sorry for this, but i never tried treecklo and wanted to see some option for Snivy =/

    Snivy has its bad to be almost required to use Magnemite
  22. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    I am currently in love with Buneary. This thing is so good. Why do people even use Aipom?
  23. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    I think you mean Meowth who has a stronger Fake Out.

    EDIT: but in all seriousness Buneary can be quite a problem if they play her correctly and I really want to try these mons out now.
  24. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    No, I mean Aipom. Aipom is sometimes used as a Fake Out lead, but it has exactly the same Attack and Speed stats. It only has a higher Defense stat.

    Meowth outclasses in the stronger Fake Out and access to Bite to threaten Ghost types (Shadow Ball is stupid). However, SwitcherooScarf has saved me so much today it's ridiculous.
  25. Diana

    Diana This isn't even my final form
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    Switcheroo+Flame Orb can permanently screw up Scraggy, because even if Shed Skin kicks in the burn just comes right back. Buneary is definitely a success. So is Venonat, actually.

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