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Research Week Mk. II #2 - I Remember [the Old Times]

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Trinitrotoluene, Feb 3, 2013.

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  1. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene +Dread Arceus: the edgier the name, the higher the crit rate
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,216
    Previous Research Week(s): Out Here (Week 1)

    Research Week - OU Edition!
    Hosted by Trinitrotoluene and Novaray!
    [​IMG]__[​IMG]__[​IMG]__
    Duration:
    February 3 - February 17

    Research Week looks to investigate Pokemon that have potential in OU, be it in stats, movepool, or supporting their team, to serve as an innovative choice in today's metagame. These are Pokemon that, for the most part, remain relatively untested. Novaray and I have selected 3 Pokemon we feel, with help from everyone else, could see the rise of new and powerful sets, or the fulfillment of a particular niche. Perhaps the title is a bit of a misnomer; in fact, this installment (and likely future ones) of Research Week will continue as long as the discussion does, and that's where you all come in.

    If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning, such as damage calculations! Posting replays showcasing the Pokemon you selected is especially encouraged.
    • Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize!
    • Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymoning. At the end of the week, however, we want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in OU, and what sets are effective on them.
    • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
    • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon we choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. We want discussion to stay on topic about the 3 Pokemon we are researching. Feel free to VM / PM yours truly or Novaray these suggestions, but don't expect the next research week to have all the Pokemon you suggested, or any of them.

    So, the 3 Pokemon we will be looking at this research week are Heracross, Crobat, and Roserade!

    .[​IMG].[​IMG].[​IMG].
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Here are some questions to think about as this Research Week progresses:
    1. How useful are these Pokemon in OU?
    2. What sets can they run effectively?
    3. What gives them trouble?
    4. What advantages do they have over other Pokemon?
    5. What niche can this Pokemon fill in teams?
    6. Are they worth the team slot on your team or is it outclassed?

    Discuss; the discussion that come out of this will surely be illuminating! Don't forget, you're not just limited to this topic to discuss these Pokemon. The #pokemon IRC channel is a perfectly suitable place to discuss them as well. At the end of the discussion period, hope we can reach a general consensus on how good these Pokemon really are, and that we might find some interesting discoveries.

    Alright, now that that's out of the way we can get to the fun part of this. First up, Research Week will now have a duration of roughly two weeks. The reason for this is as follows:
    The Research Week Challenge:
    • Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team
    • Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Surpassing a Glicko2 rating of 2050 with a deviation of 75 on the ladder with your registered alt will grant you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Platinum Class. Breaking past a Glicko2 rating of 2000 with a deviation of 75 on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing a Glicko2 rating of 1950 with a deviation of 75 will secure you a Silver Class spot while a Glicko2 rating of 1900 with a deviation of 75 will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak and an importable of your team in order to achieve this.
    • Users will be expected to post their experiences with the Pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encountered while trying to make the said Pokemon work.
    • If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.
    In order to participate in the challenge, simply post what Pokemon you're trying and your fresh new alt (yes, this is mandatory). Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

    It has been noticed that the last few Research Weeks have been basically reduced to ladder runs. This completely defeats the purpose of Research Week where the idea is NOT TO see if a person can get a high ladder rating with an underused Pokemon but to subjectively assess as a community, whether that particular Pokemon is viable in the tier and discover its potential in the tier. In order to remedy this, an archive is going to be created, highlighting great posts.

    Participants
    User and Alt List (open)
    Format will go like this: username - alt - ladder standing
    • Lavos Spawn - some trap for ya - N/A
      • Research Subject(s): Roserade
    • Arcticblast - Researchblast - N/A
      • Research Subject(s): Crobat
    • Alexander. - Priceless - N/A
      • Research Subject(s): Roserade
    • username - alt - ladder standing
      • Research Subject(s):
    • username - alt - ladder standing
      • Research Subject(s):
    • username - alt - ladder standing
      • Research Subject(s):
    • username - alt - ladder standing
      • Research Subject(s):
    • username - alt - ladder standing
      • Research Subject(s):
    • username - alt - ladder standing
      • Research Subject(s):
    • username - alt - ladder standing
      • Research Subject(s):
    • username - alt - ladder standing
      • Research Subject(s):
    • username - alt - ladder standing
      • Research Subject(s):
    • username - alt - ladder standing
      • Research Subject(s):
    • username - alt - ladder standing
      • Research Subject(s):
    Hall of Fame
    Research Week Hall of Fame (open)
    Platinum Class: 2050+ and top 10
    Currently none​
    Gold Class: 2000-2049 and top 25
    Currently none!​
    Silver Class: 1950-1999 and top 50
    Currently none!​
    Bronze Class: 1900-1949 and top 100
    Currrently none!​
    Compendium of Great Posts
    Archives and Stuff (open)
    Currently nothing!​

    A proper sign-up sheet should look something like this:

    [BOX]Username: Trinitrotoluene
    Alt: I Remember
    Ladder Standing: N/A
    Research Subject(s): Crobat[/BOX]
    Copypasta for the lazy:

    HTML:
    [B]Username:[/B]
    [B]Alt:[/B]
    [B]Ladder Standing:[/B]
    [B]Research Subject(s):[/B]
    Remember to update your original post with ladder progress and comment about your experiences! With that done, we look forward to see what you have to say!

    np: deadmau5 feat. Kaskade - I Remember
    [youtube]zK1mLIeXwsQ[/youtube]
  2. Meru

    Meru
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

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    My team is currently #1 on the ladder and I run Roserade. She provides a fantastic check to a lot of rain things and her sleep incapacitation is priceless.
  3. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
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    Username: Lavos Spawn
    Alt: some trap for ya
    Ladder Standing: n/a
    Research Subject(s): Roserade
  4. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner

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    Wow, this thread is pretty much begging me to post... but I can't think much right now.

    I've recently been using Crobat as a stallbreaker on my stall team (team in signature), and I've found it's kind of like an offensive version of Sableye. They both take nothing from Fighting (252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 88-104 (28.29 - 33.44%) -- possible 4HKO [never use 0 HP Crobat]). They both get a blazingly fast Taunt and recovery move. Crobat has more resistances, while Sableye has more immunities. Crobat, unlike Sableye, is immune to Poison status entirely, and (in most cases) immune to Spikes as well - the SR weakness is annoying though. Crobat also has a hint of an offensive presence - with 80 Attack EVs, it is guaranteed to OHKO standard Keldeo after one Spikes switchin with Brave Bird, which is still a nice revenge killing tool in a pinch (managed to whittle down Latios but you can't quite kill it? Crobat's on the job! 80 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 156-184 (51.65 - 60.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Its Speed also lets it outspeed Alakazam (the only benchmark you REALLY need to hit, everything between there and max+ either beats it or is lol Scarf Politoed).

    Opinions on Roserade later.

    Username: Arcticblast
    Alt: Researchblast
    Ladder Standing: n/a
    Research Subject(s): Crobat
  5. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    559
    Hum cool pokemon this time !

    As for heracross and roselia i have something to say, but for crobat im not experienced enough to say if its legit or not.
    Heracross has more than enough to work in a team without being a complete setup fodder or an useless mon during the majority of the battles, but its niche its limited in my opinion to its scarf set. Its typing its not bad, giving it one of the coolest stab to use in combination with moxie, Close combat, which is one the main reason i would use it. In fact, heracross in combination with an another fighting pokemon can clean in lategame once all the fight resistors has been weakened enough by the other fighting. Other than the scarf set, i dont see many other reason to use it, and while its speed its not the best its still usable to outspeed many pokemon with less than base 100 speed. Its movepool its great also, Close combat and Megahorn doest provide a nice coverage but in combination with stone edge and night slash it hits a large part of the metagame. it has some check that stops it no matter what, mainly gliscor and landorus-t, but also skarmory, tentacruel or forretress does a good job. Once it locks into a move however, its quite easier to handle.
    What distinguish Heracross from Terrakion is its ability mainly, different stab that hits harder psichic types, and why not Pursuit, that lets heracross trapkill Lati@s. Heracross is also a great check for any fighting pokemon not named Keldeo, something that terrakion cant do.

    Roserade may seems outclassed by Venusaur and Amoonguss, but they just work differently. Obviously if you have roserade under sun, maybe you are doing it wrong. Venu does a completely different job than roserade, being an offensive sweeper, so i wont even talk about it, but amoonguss its worth some words. To start, i would like to say that Roserade have spikes and toxic spikes, and this alone should be enough to use roserade instead of amonguss, but thats not about it. Roserade also have better offensive stats overall, with a great speed that lets it run an hidden power of some sort effectively (like, it outspeed and ko scizor with hp ice and does the same with dragonite and hp ice) and a better special attack that lets it hit things hard. I remember of amoongus doing barely 35% to sp def rotom-w with giga drain, and with a burn and sand i lost to it. The fact that roserade can also cure its status with natural cure should not be underestimated, especially if used in defensive teams. it also have heal bell if you really want to use a cleric, but im not sure if it works or not.
    Obviously, it has some weak points against amoongus, mainly the better bulk amongus have and regenerator that lets it switch more easily to things.
    Im not saying roserade its that good, because it isnt, depending on the hidden power it runs a pletora of things can setup on it, its defense its not the best and once it takes an hit you will probably never have chance to use rest, but still it has its niche in defensive teams. I always think about roserade as one of the ultimate stall teams pokemon, since it has many things that lets it shine in this playstile, unfortunately, stall team itself is not the best playstile to use right know so it just doesnt fit in many teams. However, i think its worht a try ^^
  6. Alexander.

    Alexander.

    Joined:
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    Username: Alexander
    Alt: Speed Jil
    Ladder Standing: n/a
    Research Subject(s): Heracross
  7. Xelx

    Xelx
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
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    Username: Robert
    Alt: dedo1
    Ladder Standing: N/A
    Research Subject(s): Roserade
  8. Drako

    Drako

    Joined:
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    Username: Drako
    Alt: voice like treason
    Ladder Standing: N/A
    Research Subject(s): Heracross
  9. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
    is a Pokemon Researcher

    Joined:
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    Username: Katakiri
    Alt: Crossed
    Ladder Standing: N/A
    Research Subject(s): Heracross
  10. Livio

    Livio
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
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    Username: Uomo Solo
    Alt: Nobody is safe
    Ladder Standing: N/A
    Research Subject(s): Roserade/ Heracross
  11. Alexander.

    Alexander.

    Joined:
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    I'm using Heracross and it's a really good pokemon. I actually use it on a Deoxys-D offense and it fits very well in my team because it's a good Choice Scarf user and it's a good Pursuit user too. Close Combat and Megahorn allow me to revenge-kill stuff like Breloom, Lucario and so on and Stone Edge is also good to revenge-kill threats like Dragonite and Thundurus-T. I also noted that Pursuit is really good to support the other sweeper of the team, for example, it allows to trap-kill the Latwins and then Rock Polish Landorus can sweep more easily. Pursuit can kill weakened Jellicent too and support then Sword Dance Lucario and Sword Dance Scizor for example. As last thing, it has a useful resistance to fighting moves so it can be used as a check of Terrakion, Breloom and the other fighting-types, expect for Keldeo which can destroy Heracross with water moves easily.

    In short, Heracross works in hyper offense teams and it can support the other sweeper of the team pretty well.
  12. namehtmas

    namehtmas i have seen a sheepish wonder
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

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    Username: namehtmas
    Alt:
    1979
    Ladder Standing: N/A
    Research Subject(s): Crobat
  13. Milos

    Milos

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    Username: Milos
    Alt: researcherLOS
    Ladder Standing: n/a
    Research Subject(s): Roserade
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