1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Research Week Mk.III #3

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by Mazz, Mar 18, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
    is a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Welcome, UUers! It's time for a fresh installment of Research Group!

    Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:
    • Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
    • Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
    • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
    • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

    This Week's Research Pokemon:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Slowking | Porygon-Z | Durant​


    How useful are these Pokemon in UU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #genvuu as well!

    The Research Group Challenge:
    In order to participate you must do the following:
    • Post here with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
    • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
    • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!

    The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown UU ladder on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends. If you win, you will receive temporary hops on #genvuu, but you may only claim your prize if you actually participated in the discussion. Winners will also receive a permanent spot in the Underused Hall of Fame!

    I'd like to stress the point that upon signing up, you should also engage in some sort of discussion regarding this week's selection of Pokemon. This project isn't entirely a ladder-only project - it's designed to provoke discussion and creativity in the tier. Also, don't forget to post a ladder ranking next week or count yourself out of week 4.

    Current Participants:
    - PTJon7 (PTJ)
    - ScraftyIsTheBest (Twisted Dimensions)
    - Explorer (Dynamo31)
  2. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    I'm in, using all 3.
    Alt: PTJ
  3. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest lovin'
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,393
    I'm doin' Slowking

    Alt: Mighty Escavalier
  4. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    Initial impressions-

    Durant: Running a Hone Claws set w/ Lum Berry. Its a big threat for sure and sets up with pretty minimal support, especially with a Lum Berry. I'd say it suffers the most from 4 move slot syndrome, if you have dual STABs then it comes down to Superpower or Rock Slide for the final move, both of which hit completely opposite things super effectively.

    Porygon Z: Using a standard Nasty Plot set w/ Life Orb. This thing is powerful even without the Nasty Plot. Adaptability-boosted Tri Attack hits hard, after a NP it can OHKO almost anything that doesn't resist it. I also find PZ has pretty nice natural bulk as well, it can survive decently powerful attacks as long as they aren't super effective (for example a LO Sharpedo Waterfall).

    Slowking: Using a NP set w/ Leftovers. I never realized until now that Slowbro and Slowking are almost complete clones, the only difference is that they have opposite defensive stats (base 110 and base 80). I just decided to try something new and went with a Nasty Plot set. This move is pretty much the only thing Slowking has over Slowbro, but even then NP Slowking isn't good enough to make it better than Slowbro. Since I'm using it on an offensive team I can't really say much about Slowking's defensive capabilities, but it would obviously function best as a regular special wall.

    I've decided to drop Slowking, as I don't find its bringing much to the table.
  5. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    531
    I don't know about you, but I've found Slowking is probably one of the best pivots for offensive teams. Being able to cushion a lot of blows from both sides of the spectrum with a physically defensive spread, and having Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail make for an amazing paralysis shuffler, which is something Slowbro really wishes it had—it also wishes it's tail wasn't being bitten by a Shellder, but that's another subject. While it's true that without offensive investment Slowking's power is lacking, Scald's burn chance and the ability to prevent stuff from setting up on it—with the obvious exceptions of SubRoost Zapdos and SubCM Raikou—more than make up for its lack of offensive presence. It also makes a great pair with SpD Rhyperior, which takes on Electric-types and physical Fire-types for Slowking, while also phazing with Roar/Dragon Tail.

    The spread I was using in my latest team was 248 HP / 12 Atk / 120 Def / 128 SpD Sassy to take on Specially-based MixVictini, the Nidos, and any Kingdra variant while being able to survive two Flare Blitzes from Scarf Darmanitan after SR. I didn't invest more into physical defense because I figured most stuff was checked by other members of my team—also since Mienshao, Darm, and physical Vic all have U-turn, King isn't the best first switch into them unlike Slowbro. I do struggle a little with LO Mienshao, but provided I keep Slowking healthy until lategame I can beat it mano a mano. Oh, the moves used were the standard, Thunder Wave / Scald / Slack Off / Dragon Tail.

    Durant is a completely different subject, since when I built my team I needed a reliable answer to SD Weavile and Flygon. My first thought was obviously Escavalier, but the team I'd constructed already wasn't fast enough, and I needed a Scarfer so I took cim's—weird at first—suggestion of using Scarf Swarm Durant. I have to say that it's pretty cool lategame when stuff is weakened, since it's faster than everything except Scarf Timid Raikou. Spamming Iron Head along with the flinch chance is really nice, too. However, the lack of power is extremely annoying sometimes, since it has base 109 Attack and only 80 bp STAB moves, just too weak. I could use Hustle, but I never recommend inaccurate spamming moves in sweepers, and missing with a revenge killer is one of the worst stuff that can happen.
    Oh, my set was 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe Jolly with Iron Head / X-Scissor / Rock Slide / Superpower.

    I posted all my thoughts from my experience with these Pokemon, but I don't think I'll be joining this research week because I'd have to make a new alt and, frankly, I hate laddering lol.
  6. fatty

    fatty
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    820
    i've been using a hone claws bp durant set and it's been working quite well. durant usually can only be used as a midgame wallbreaker or a lategame sweeper, but hc bp let's it be used throughout a match. you don't have to waste turns by setting up when they still have a durant counter because you can just bp an atk boost to something to keep momentum, which is really cool. i've been using it with scarf heracross and a 3 atk chestorest snorlax. although it doesnt seem to have the best defensive synergy, they work pretty well together. heracross can come in on steels that wall 2 attack durant and sweep with scarf, moxie and an initial +1 in attack AND accuracy, making stone edge / megahorn actual viable sweeping tools, while snorlax comes in on all the pokemon trying to abuse durant's abysmal special defense, easily making good use out of +1 attack.
  7. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    I didn't know Slowking has Dragon Tail, that would definitely be an effective para-shuffler.

    In my opinion standerd Hone Claws Hustle Durant is the best option for it. Swarm Durant lacks the power to reliably sweep, but it could be a decent cleaner considering it outspeeds all other common scarfers. Hustle without Hone Claws is just too risky in my opinion. A Baton Pass set is an interesting idea however, I think I'll try that out soon. The best recipient I can think of would be a Fire type, or atleast something that resist fire.
  8. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    663
    I have a feeling Slowking and Durant would make a nice offensive core together...

    Alt: Dynamo31
    Research Pokemon chosen: Slowking and Durant
    Ladder Ranking: 1169

    Also, are we allowed to ladder with multiple teams with the same research Pokemon on the same alt, or do we need to make a new one?
  9. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
    is a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    For every instalment of Research Week, you must use a new alt. Outside of that, there's no ladder restrictions on alts.

    That aside, time to post your rankings!
  10. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Ranking: 1732 41W -14L (though i ended up playing and winning more with my research team on another account)

    Sets Used:
    Show Hide
    Durant (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Hustle
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - X-Scissor
    - Iron Head
    - Rock Slide
    - Hone Claws

    Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
    Trait: Adaptability
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Tri Attack
    - Dark Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]


    Both of these pokemon are definitely threats in UU. Setting up with both of them could spell doom for the opposing team,
    but setting up in the first place was often a challenge.

    Durant has truly awful special bulk, getting hit around 60% by the average Scald. I decided to go with Lum Berry though for the advantage of being able to set up on bulky Water types (granted Durant was at full health). I'd say that once anything outspeeding Durant is out of the way (which isn't many things besides Scarfers), Durant can funciton extremely well as a set up sweeper. I'd say the biggest drawback to the set however is the lack of move coverage. I believe both STAB attacks are necessary, so then it just comes down to Rock Slide or Superpower.

    Porygon-Z had a generally easier time setting up, as it has a nice HP stat and decent defense stats. Even without a Nasty Plot boosting its special attack Porygon-Z is still packs an incredibly powerful Tri Attack thanks to Adaptability. I feel like I often didn't find the time or felt the need to get up a Nasty Plot with Porygon-Z, even when I did most of the time Porygon-Z was left too weak to sweep many things thanks to Life Orb recoil. Porygon's speed stat also didn't help it out that much, pretty much all the things in the tier that outsped it could revenge kill it.

    I ended up trying out an Agility set as well, and which I found to have pretty comparable effectiveness to Nasty Plot. I do think I'm more inclined to go with Agility over NP in general how ever.

    Overall, I really enjoyed these sets. both of them has distinct strengths and weaknesses, but with some support from the rest of the team both could function excellently as set up sweepers. Porygon-Z atleast will become a common member of my future teams, as I really found use and enjoyment out of it.
  11. Psychotic

    Psychotic There's one life, one love so there can only be one King
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    565
    I shall play.
    Pokemon: Slowking
    Alt: Snowking
  12. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
    is a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    You're late lol.

    The new week is up here.
  13. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    663
    I agree that Porygon-Z is difficult to set up because it is not very bulky and can get revenge killed easily (ScarfCross, for example). So generally I avoid the NP + 3 attacks set, and I do agree that Agility + 3 attacks is better.

    Here is the team I used for the challenge:

    Show Hide

    Durant (M) @ Steel Gem
    Trait: Hustle
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 0 SAtk
    - Hone Claws
    - Iron Head
    - X-Scissor
    - Stone Edge


    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 240 HP / 16 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Bulldoze
    - Water Pulse

    Slowking (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 68 Def / 252 HP / 188 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Fire Blast
    - Blizzard
    - Slack Off


    Houndoom (M) @ Fire Gem
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Fire Blast
    - Pursuit
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Claydol @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Psyshock
    - Earth Power

    Togekiss (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 SDef / 240 HP / 12 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Wish
    - Flamethrower
    - Tailwind
    - Air Slash



    I immediately theorized that Slowking, Durant, and Houndoom would make a great three-part offensive core, but it didn't because Slowking wasn't fast enough and the residual damage piled on it too quickly. For that reason, I regret making this a Hail Team. Durant, however, did very well, using a Hustle + STAB + Steel Gem-boosted Iron Head to surprise very bulky opponents, namely Umbreon and Snorlax. It was probably the MVP of the team, and usually the opponent would not have more than 2 Pokemon that outsped it. In that regard Togekiss's Tailwind was very useful.

    I do not plan on using the Slowking set again on a hail team, even though it was a decent abuser of Blizzard. Still, there are better hail abusers out there.

    Other pros:
    Claydol did great at setting up Stealth Rock.
    Houndoom's Fire Gem-boosted Fire Blast got a lot of nice KOs.
    Abomasnow's coverage was a nice surprise factor.

    Other cons:
    Abomasnow was too slow.
    Togekiss's Fire Blast was too unreliable (it was replaced by Flamethrower); I wish it learned Blizzard.
    Three SR-weak Pokemon.
    Durant's low special defense was a downer.
  14. Mazz

    Mazz Retired
    is a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Sorry this is late. PTJon7 wins this round. Because Scraftyisthebest failed to post their ranking, they will not be permitted to enter Week #5.

    That said, this research week is now closed.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)