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Project Research Week: SM PU Edition - Week 3 (Abomasnow, Combusken)

Discussion in 'PU' started by iRebel, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. ChrystalFalchion

    ChrystalFalchion
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    RW CF
    Testing both
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  2. InfernoMonferno

    InfernoMonferno

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  3. iRebel

    iRebel

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    The deadline will always be a week from when it started.
    Has Tattoos likes this.
  4. MRcoolGUY886

    MRcoolGUY886

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    RW McG
    Mesprit
  5. iRebel

    iRebel

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    just to bump this thread again you guys can post your thoughts on these mons. the week ends on thursday
  6. Has Tattoos

    Has Tattoos

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    Oct 9, 2015
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    if MRcoolGUY886 could stop passing me by like 5 points that'd be great.
    MRcoolGUY886 likes this.
  7. Has Tattoos

    Has Tattoos

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2015
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    I chose to build with mesprit this week. I tried a couple different things and came up with something pretty standard, but it worked well so who cares.

    The first set I wanted to try was a choice specs future sight set, the idea being to use future sight and then switch into a bulky breaker like choice banded mudsdale and force the opponent to choose if they wanted to resist the choice specs future sight or the choice banded earthquake/heavy slam.

    Mesprit @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Future Sight
    - Psychic
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Shadow Ball

    Psychic for immediate STAB damage, gleam for dark types like skunk and absol, shadow ball for other psychics. I feel like there's potential in this idea, but in practice it didn't work well so I scrapped it.

    The team I had success with was built around bulky calm mind mesprit and scarf jynx, the idea being to use mesprit to break psychic resists so that jynx can sweep.

    The team:
    https://pokepast.es/09f54a1e0627c9ec

    Guzzlord is a bulky dark resist that takes advantage of passive pokemon, I found myself primarily using guzzlord as a breaker on this team. Charizard with dragon dance and firium-z as a late game sweeper, skuntank to defog, and piloswine as another bulky pivot. I like this team alot, because it has multiple pokemon with sweeping potential. Calm mind mesprit has a field day against more passive teams and against more offensive teams I can choose either Charizard or Jynx to sweep with and play recklessly with the other.

    Due to the more offensive nature of this team I rarely swept with mesprit, often I was using it to break walls with calm mind. I could afford to play more recklessly with mesprit, switching it in frequently to force psychic resists to come in and take hazard damage before hitting them with a boosted dazzling gleam or pivoting to guzzlord to fire off a draco meteor. I'm ending research week around number 25 on the ladder with this team.

    I found it really difficult to build around mesprit because it's capable of doing so much. I approach research week hoping to maximize the potential of a particular pokemon by building a team around it, but mesprit acts more like a glue and fills whatever role the team needs. This team has some issues, a weakness to piloswine and swanna and to some extent skuntank, but I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.

    I was underwhelmed by mesprit because I was hoping to have it be the star of the show, but in terms of breaking down psychic resists so jynx could sweep it did a phenomenal job.

    Replays:
    Room tour finals versus Sixes stall team:
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-629536595

    Dark type removed turn 3:
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-629485788

    Mesprit does something:
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-629811262

    Played another research week team, dark type removed and jynx sweeps:
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-629114013
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017 at 2:02 AM
    MRcoolGUY886 likes this.
  8. MRcoolGUY886

    MRcoolGUY886

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
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    I chose mesprit because it's one of my favorite mons from gen 4 and with it just dropping to the tier i already had a multitude of teams built w/ it, just needed to test them out. The team i had the most fun with was this one: https://pokepast.es/eb65cb660a067515

    Set Name: Stop it, Skuntank!
    Mesprit @ Colbur Berry
    Ability: Levitate
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Calm Mind
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Psychic

    I found that max hp max speed with dazzling gleam/HP ground to hit guzzlords and Skunks the best set that lets Mesprit do what it want. Colbur is to live a hit from these nasty dark types in order to get up a CM or hit it with coverage move. Catching dark types on the switch in is so satisfying. I also think that Signal Beam > Dazzling gleam would work too in order to beat opposing Mesprits but I did very little testing w/ that. Other option is Fairy/Bug Z but I already had Z-Me First Pinsir on this team. Leftovers are nice for recovery but imo colbur should be run in the wake of all these nasty skunks and cats.

    Team Members:
    The team also features one of my favorite PU mons Type: Null. RestTalk Type: Null is a scary mon that almost never dies if the opponent isn't running Knock Off/Taunt. Once the opposing team is devoid of ghost types this thing can set up and sweep. W/ base 95s across the board (barring speed) and access to eviolite it's one of the bulkiest mons in the tier. Sp Def evs are weird and don't do anything specific but give me peace of mind that I can probably live special hits from something somewhere and it'll save me from losing.

    Skuntank was put on to pursuit trap ghosts that give Type: Null and Mesprit trouble and defog. Nasty freakin skunk is everywhere and is probably the best mon in the tier right now.
    Weezing paired nicely with Skuntank and handled fighting types for Null. Max HP max Sp Def cuz i'm a rebel.

    I like using aggron so i put it on for rocks and doing some heavy slamming shenanigans.

    Z-Me First Pinsir resists fighting and then does some meme-y shit where if it's faster and the opponent uses an attacking move it uses the z move version of that move. So I especially like using it on Crustles to OHKO them and get +2 speed and +1 attack and then watch them click x.

    overall impressions of Mesprit....
    It's a great mon. base 105s across the board w/ 80 hp and 80 speed and its movepool make it quite versatile. It can set rocks, it can CM and sweep, it can be a bulky choice specs user, it can be a fast (ish) specs user, it can be a scarf user, there's so many things it can do. I'm kinda sad I didn't test more sets but I kinda hit gold w/ this first team (at the time i'm writing this i made it to 26th on the PU ladder w/ this team at 1376 points). It was fun playing a game of "who's winning" w/ Has Tattoos.
    replays:
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-628936119
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-628938248
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-628942651
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-628943991
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-628948118
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-628950383
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-628957107
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-628963474
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-629105699
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-629104692
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-630516426
    Has Tattoos likes this.
  9. Has Tattoos

    Has Tattoos

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2015
    Messages:
    38
    WE TIED CALL IT A DAY
    LOL we both did pretty well though. And nearly identical mesprit sets, which is interesting
  10. MRcoolGUY886

    MRcoolGUY886

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
    Messages:
    15
    I also tried this set:
    Mesprit @ Colbur Berry
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Psychic
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - U-turn

    Still max hp max speed colbur but more support role w/ rocks and U-turn because I built the team around Band Aggron.
    https://pokepast.es/a72c8143b0fa30dd

    Didn't have quite as much success w/ this team because Eel is kinda bad. Probably would switch it for scarf Evire.

    Band aggron because i wanted to click Head Smash.
    Mesprit to set rocks while resisting fighting.
    Skuntank because Skuntank.
    Z-Articuno because I refuse to believe the mods when they say Articuno is bad. Also it's super bulky and hard switches into almost every fighting type (without rock coverage) and ohkos/ deals a ton of damage w/ modest z hurricane or sets up an agility and can sweep teams that are unprepared for offensive articuno.
    Poliwrath to both resist rock and soak water type attacks for aggron while also providing some more priority and utility in burn chance from scald.
    Eel because another levitate mon and u-turn user to help get in Aggron safely. I think if my other team hadn't done so well I would've played with this team more and changed it a bit but that Type: Null team might be one of the greatest teams I've ever built. (and now it's on the forums :'( unfort.)

    EDIT: forgot replays
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-630305225
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-630037094
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017 at 2:55 AM
  11. iRebel

    iRebel

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2015
    Messages:
    215
    So, ChrystalFalchion wins this week as RW Tats, and RW McG used their alts they used for the previous week. Sorry if this wasn't stressed enough, but you must use fresh alts every week. Congratulations to Chrystal Falchion for winning (technically by default)!

    Thoughts
    While I didn't get any Alolan Dugtrio posts, even though I think it's a really underrated Pokemon in the metagame, I thought it was very solid with some of it's sets. The sets which I used where Life Orb 3 Attacks with Memento and Sub Toxic. 3 Attacks Alolan Dugtrio could break for teams with it's EdgeQuake coverage while also supporting a different sweeper such as Charizard or SD Zangoose with Memento. While it wasn't super powerful I believe it's speed tier is what makes it good being able to outpace a lot of the unscarfed meta which allowed to reliably set up Mementos. Sub Toxic was very nice because no types that are immune to Toxic switch into Dugtrio besides Weezing which is why Sub can come in handy. Substitute essentially means you wall Weezing unless it's a Flamethrower variant which aren't as common with Klinklang being banned. It's typing also came in handy with Key resists to Normal, Flying, and Rock, as well as being immune to Electric. Sub Toxic in general is just able to take advantage of bulkier teams and dismantle their cores. Mesprit is a tried and true Pokemon, but with it's wide movepool there seems to still be room for innovation. Has Tattoos used which Specs with Future Sight which definitely seemed like a cool idea since it could force switches often and also break resists. Calm Mind coupled with HP Ground and a Colbur berry seemed like a great idea to lure in Skuntanks to either weaken or kill it. Now onto what everyone is really waiting for!


    WEEK 3
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Abomasnow and Combusken have been chosen as the Week 3 Pokemon. Good Luck to all of those who participate!
    (more posts tell your friends!)
    E: Forgot that the ladder reset sorry guys! MRcoolGUY886 is the winner since he had a higher GXE than tats
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017 at 7:14 PM
  12. MRcoolGUY886

    MRcoolGUY886

    Joined:
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    Also for this next week I'll be using RW McG2
    And I'll take Abomasnow
  13. Has Tattoos

    Has Tattoos

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2015
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    RW Tats2
    Blaziken

    Edit: Combusken. That was some wishful thinking
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017 at 12:33 AM
  14. SergioRules

    SergioRules

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
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    91
    RW Sergio2
    Chicken is probably what I'll use most I might use both just to get a feel
  15. TJ

    TJ :thinking:
    is a Tiering Contributor

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  16. ChrystalFalchion

    ChrystalFalchion
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Ill take Abomasnow. Alt RW2 Blade

    Sorry I forgot to make a follow up post. Dugtrio-A is a surprisingly effective revenge killer / late game cleaner. I ran 2 sets - one with Life Orb and one with Darkinium Z and Memento. Both were pretty good but I had better results with the Life Orb one - it's quite weak without it.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017 at 3:22 AM
    MRcoolGUY886 and iRebel like this.
  17. Insert Old Meme

    Insert Old Meme

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  18. Rwby

    Rwby

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    Hey!

    I wont be laddering because I don't hate myself that much, however I did want to give a brief summary of how I think these mons are in this meta n_n

    [​IMG]
    Now, I really like Combusken as a mon, I think it's unique in its access to Speed Boost and a nice move pool to boot; however, in the current meta I don't think it's nearly as good as it was last gen, in NU or PU. Losing access to Baton Pass hurt its viability quite a lot in my opinion, as it no longer has the option to both pass speed and pivot out of undesirable situations, which was what it was best at when Baton Pass wasn't banned. Along with the Seventh Generation also came the several threats the crushed how good Combusken was in NU after the ban, in Mesprit, Lanturn and Weezing; along with things like Granbull and Qwilfish dropping from ORAS RU. This wouldn't be so bad if not for the fact that all of these, barring Granbull, are common, splashable mons in the current meta. Combusken also falls short in the power department, having things like Magmortar (which has better coverage and faster speed turn 1), Charizard (which is one of the best Fire types in PU) and Pyroar (which has an almost unresisted STAB combo) to fill the role of a special attack better than it; then you its more unique Physical set which would be a lot better if not for the fact that it only really has access to one strong STAB move in Flare Blitz, and having to do with Low Kick as its STAB Fighting option. All in all, I don't feel like Combusken is very good, but it's certainly a fun mon to mess around with on some archetypes like SpikeStack and Webs.

    [​IMG]
    This mon on the other-hand is actually really good at the moment. Basically unresisted STAB and the ability to run a mixed set really carves out Abomasnow as a good breaker and threatens balance teams. It currently has multiple good sets including Choice Scarf, Mixed Attacker and the less common SD Physical Set, all of which fulfil a role or niche when used. However, not everything is good for Aboma. In a meta full of strong of strong fire types and hazards, Aboma is forced out a lot and takes residual damage all the time due to it, especially from both SR and Tspikes, which really hurts its usability unless you have good hazard support throughout the game. Overall though I think Aboma is rather underappreciated currently and more people need to use it.
  19. ChrystalFalchion

    ChrystalFalchion
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
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    Haven't tried Combusken yet, but Abomasnow is proving useful. The mixed Life Orb set is by far the best IMO: Swords Dance is done better by Shiftry while Pokemon weak to all hazards don't make for good Scarf users. If you must go Choice, use Specs - Blizzard, Giga Drain, Focus Blast and Hidden Power Fire.

    Haven't got that high on the ladder yet, as its full of stupid troll teams that keep catching me out. They also haven't realised that badly poisoning something with Synchronize is really stupid, if the user isn't immune to Poison.

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