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Returning to Our Roots NOC Mafia - GAME OVER: The Mafia Wins

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by Walrein, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    What ._.
    Firstly, thanks DLE for the definiton of IIoA. Orcinus, I'd appreciate it if you used regular terms that people understand since we're not walking mafia encyclopedias.

    Anyways, my posts in the beginning were more regarding the beginning stages of the lynch or clarifying the mayor strategy since NWO apparently didn't see how it worked. I tend to be conservative/paranoid, so I really didn't like randlynching. After that, I had pretty much nothing to say. Also, how is attempting to clarify things scummy?
  2. Spiffy

    Spiffy

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    It's not attempting to clarify things that is scummy, it is the fact that you haven't given us any information that we couldn't have figured out ourselves. For instance:
    This is probably the most useless post in the entire thread. You have given us none of your opinions, besides wanting to lynch Metal Bagon once or twice, (which was the general consensus at that time) and posts like the one I quoted that aren't even necessary. A post like that seems like your struggling to contribute anything and want to seem active so people don't view you as suspicious. Please give us your thoughts on who his scummy.
  3. Paperblade

    Paperblade

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    Vote count just because, I'm pretty sure this is accurate:

    TL (2): AG, NWO
    Nesp (2): Spiffy, Orc
    Maxim (1): Flamestrike
    Njig (1): TL

    I'd also kind of like TL to explain himself a bit more but assuming NWO is in fact a mayor he currently has most of the votes, but I would also like pokemaniac to talk more, so for now lynch pokemaniac
  4. Empoof

    Empoof

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    I'd like to express this as well. I'm glad you've made a post since then but I'd like to hear more on your thoughts on what's happened so far (KoK lynch voters, Njiggly, IIoAs and anything you've noticed so far). While there have been a lot of people promoting discussion and trying to help the town, you are currently our only "cleared" townie (other than opinions about the KoK lynch) while any one of us could still be mafia.

    I'll read over EP's and nEsp's posts when i get the chance, busy morning.
    And not to take any focus away from the topics at hand, but i still see Metal Bagon as semi scummy for his defensive actions. I consider it beneficial for town to have lots of discussions at once, correct me if I'm wrong and I'll try to focus it down more.
  5. Ditto

    Ditto /me huggles
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    I personally am going to see that zorbees' defense for NWO was his way of trying to turn us away from a known villy without revealing he was inspector. Plus the lack of a mayor counterclaim helps.

    Currently I think TL is our scummiest player. Not even noobtown would adequately explain his last minute lynch vote. However, I think we need to press harder on those who are inactive before we finalize a lynch.

    Gonna go with lynch pokemaniac as well. He posted about 2 sentences when I last pressed him, one of which seemed to be "I think Ditto is clean, so please change your lynch vote" to me.
  6. Mithril

    Mithril
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    Alright, in terms of the two announcers, I think it is safe to say that the remaining announcer is villager, albeit a villager with a fairly useless role.

    I do feel that TL's last second vote on NJ was a very strange move, but I'm not entirely sure that he is mafia. I feel that he may just be a newer player to NOC and not really know what he is supposed to do.

    Personally, I still feel that pokemaniac is one of our best targets. Every single thing he has posted is nothing more than repeating other people's ideas in order to sound like he is contributing. It just seems very scummy to me. I would like to hear him actually give some thoughts on the game, so I am going to lynch pokemaniac.

    However, nEsp, EP, and NJ should also contribute more useful thought to the game.

    And aura, in terms of my last second lynch, I honestly wasn't entirely sure when deadline was. I got on, saw a lynch I agreed with, got on, and voted. Admittedly the timing made it sound a little off.
  7. nEsp

    nEsp

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    You guys don't need to have a lynch vote on me, I was about to post something now anyhow. I've been busy IRL with a lot of things happening, but I'll hopefully be able to be more contributing from now and on. Btw, I'm surprised you didn't put me on your list OD.

    I don't know what I shall post though. I could try to get you guys off me, but if I did that, we wouldn't get as much discussion going as if some of you guys try to crack me, pointing out all the faults I've probably done through this game. Sure, it's no good trying to lynch a villager, but if you guys argue against me, people will have more data to analyse, and we're thus more likely to catch a scum for this days lynch as well.

    But I cannot have you guys argue against me without me defending myself a bit. You accuse me of IIoA, so I'll try to give a satisfactory explanation.
    First, I give school a higher priority then this game, and thus with a recent and very time-consuming assignment, I did barely have enough time to keep myself up to date with the posts in the thread, much less analyse and contribute myself.
    Second, no matter how much I lurk the Smogon forums or read up on mafia tactics on other sites, I still lack the experience to draw many important conclusions myself. And when I figure something out, there are usually someone to post the same things as I was to post, and I find it quite redundant to post a copy of someone else's post.

    However, I doubt that you want me to defend myself, and instead deliver you an analysis or two.

    TL seems very insistent on lynching NJiggly. I find it unlikely that both are mafia, due to the fact that they both seem inexperienced, and thus would probably not be daring enough to try and pull off such a play that could very easily backfire. Due to a rather suspicious behaviour of both of them, I believe at least one of them to be mafia.

    NJiggly made a very suspicious post early on, and later backed it up with a post saying that it was unpolished. The interesting thing here, is that his (her? I hate not knowing what to call ppl...) defense is rather weak, and that the posts doesn't seem like they've been read through even once. A mafia would probably read through a post at least once, to make sure that they don't seem like scum. After all, they have to conceal their true motives by making their actions look villager-ish. I realise that this is all very vague, but with a lack of posts, there isn't that much to go on. Furthermore, on second thought, the lack of posts may be explained with the fact that VT isn't a role that exiting.

    TL, on the other hand, tried to push a lynch on a mayor without any counterclaims, seemed to be eager to run for cover when zorbees complains about his attack on NWO, insisted on that he is "noob town" and finally tried to lynch NJIggly twice without providing any reasoning other than that NJiggly hasn't made a lot of posts (a lot of other users haven't done that either, unfortunately. If you feel like you haven't contributed enough, please remedy that! You know who you are...). I exclude the "NJiggly doesn't want to look scummy" part as I believe we all are able to understand why both a town and a mafia wouldn't want to look scummy, i.e. be lynched.

    Thus, I believe NJiggly to be town, and TL to be mafia. Feel free to argue against the above, I appreciate when there's a discussion going on, as long as it has a point in it left.

    I'm not trusting anyone claiming to be a power role. If MB was village, then why didn't mafia kill him? Due to MB not dying, we are left with a smaller number of possible scenarios:

    1. There might be two kills in this game, and the BG managed to block one of them. I have a general detest against assuming things, but if there was a wolf in this game, with a NK, and either the mafia or the wolf knew that zorbees was inspector, this seem like a possible outcome. However, this requires the mafia or the wolf to be able to inspect roles. (Yes, now would be a lovely time for the mafia/wolf to step up and claim inspect.) If this true, however, they must have had quite the luck with the inspect, and not to mention, what are the possibilities of that the other killer also target someone who is protected?
    2. Mafia knew that zorbees was inspector.
    This is basically the same as above, bar with only one NK. But the only way the mafia could know it was through a random inspect N0. Albeit unlikely, I still find this to be a possibility.
    3. Mafia chose to spare MB in hope of us lynching him.
    If they didn't knew that zorbees was the inspect, they played quite a risky game, because they didn't knew if MB was inspect or not, and the inspect is the most vital role to the village, especially in NOC.
    4. MB is mafia.
    Explains why mafia didn't kill MB. I doubt I need to justify why this is a possibility.

    Out of the above, I find number 2 and 4 most probable, but I'm inexperienced, tell me (and everyone else) what you think here!

    But to be honest, I don't think that any of the above is anything new. As I read through the thread now while writing this, you guys seem to have said everything to be said already.

    Oh, and I wouldn't be surprised if I contradicted myself at least once in the above, or lost my track somewhere. I tend to do that when writing late at night. Now, please tear the above apart, give opinions and argue against! I'd love to get more involved in the discussion!.
  8. TalkingLion

    TalkingLion

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    Ok, if you guys still think that I'm scum then I have an idea for you. Someone said earlier that me and NJ cant both be mafia, so I suggest that you lynch one of us today, and if the person you lynch turns out mafia, then the other cant be mafia. I think this would be the best way as there is no way to prove my role as a villager as I don't have any role(I believe this is called "Miller" or "Townsfolk".) But I think that before we do that we need to get NJ to talk to determine who is more scummy. Any objections to this?
    EDIT: It wasn't just his lack of posts, it was the fact that he made a suspicious post early on and his next post was saying how he was trying not to sound scummy.
  9. Paperblade

    Paperblade

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    nEsp, I don't follow your logic on Metal Bagon. Why would the mafia kill him when most people think he's scummy?

    also it's possible that zorbees just got namekilled, as he's a pretty good player
  10. Spiffy

    Spiffy

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    EVERYONE STOP CLAIMING. IT ONLY HURTS US IN THE END; AND LETS THE MAFIA KNOW WHO THEY SHOULD AND SHOULDN'T KILL. Claiming VT just narrows down more who has a power role and who doesn't, no one else even give HINT of what your role could be unless you are close to being lynched.
  11. pokémaniac 212

    pokémaniac 212

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    First an explanation, I've been busy with uni work the last couple of days, so haven't been able to get on much, which is why I've been relatively quiet, and I'll tell you now that I won't be on again tonight since I've got an essay due in tomorrow morning. As for my posts basically repeating, I'll accept thats true, but thats because I agree with whats been said, I'm not going to make up stuff I don't believe in so that I don't appear to be echoing. As for my last post-pressure post, the most useful thing I could see to do at that stage was to give a summary of my opinions on the most-prominent players, and I agree with the rest that ditto seems town, I wasn't trying to pressure you into removing the lynch.

    Not sure what I can contribute apart from a few more thoughts on people.

    Talking Lion: I agree with the others (inb4 agreeing too much) that Talking Lion's vote on NJiggly was suspicious given the consensus at the time on lynching KoK, but its possible that he hadn't realised how soon deadline was and therefore was trying to prompt discussion or that he simply felt more strongly about NJ than KoK and decided to go with that, although neither of those seems particularly likely to me, I just thought it worth mentioning.

    NJ: To be honest, although I haven't got the time to re-read right now, to me he seems more like a noob-town than a mafian, although that could be an intentional ploy.

    The IIoA pair: As I said I haven't got time to re-read, but if all they have posted so far falls foul of that then its suspicious to say the least, although it could just as easily indicate noob town to be honest.

    NWO: As I've previously said given the lack of a counter-claim I'd say that he's our safest bet for town, so he's the one we should probably look to for a leader.

    Inactives: Could be busy at the moment like myself, could be mafia trying to hide, although given the amount of pressure being put on inactives I doubt the latter is the case, or if it was I doubt they'll carry on with it.

    Other: I stand by opinions posted previously, with the addition of Spiffy to my pro-town list.
  12. Spiffy

    Spiffy

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    Unvote
    Vote Maxim
    Is this really how it's going to be again? Maxim's been online since Flamestrike's vote for him (I believe) and if he's going to ignore it he is mafia or he should be subbed out.
  13. Empoof

    Empoof

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    I understand the logic that both TL and NJiggly can't be mafia, but this doesn't mean they can't both be town. While they both seem suspicious (I'm considering TL's claim suspicious because damn we didn't even have like 3 votes on him and it's not pro-town to claim like that), if one flips town it doesn't make the other mafia.

    While i understand everyone seems to be busy, We've talked a lot about NJiggly vs. TL over the past few days with little recognition from NJiggly...
    I'm siding with Paperblade that mafia wouldn't lynch MB since we consider him skummy and they have other nightkills they could use on him later.

    Townies need to start looking as to how they can better the village rather than worrying if they're going to get lynched or not. TL, imo you should have explained why you voted in the manner you did in great detail, explaining (even if it's a reiteration) why you chose NJ > Kok, and continued skumhunting/helping the town. Yeah, noone likes getting lynched or focused on, but your objective it to have TOWN win. If you happen to get NK'd/lynched, at least know that you helped push us to our goal.

    Sorry if that post was chaotic, irl stuff going on.

    EDIT: Didn't see that Maxim had been online. Lynch Maxim, and yes you're correct he's been on since flamestrike's vote.
  14. Paperblade

    Paperblade

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    When were people claiming other than the mayor thing with NWO, which happened D1? nEsp said he was a villager but I assumed he meant "I'm town" not "I'm vanilla"

    Also lynch maxim since pokemaniac talked
  15. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    My thoughts:

    Metal Bagon: I think Metal Bagon is either scum or wolf. His constant bandwagoning makes it seem that he is trying to get somebody killed and fast, and his defense has basically just been threatening to reveal a power role. I think it is very likely that Metal Bagon could be a wolf, which would explain why he is trying to get everyone killed. With this next quote of his, I can't tell if he's trying to be funny and failing, or trying to kiss-up to not get lynched.

    Spiffy: I think Spiffy is almost certainly town. He has been keeping a level head all game long and tried convincing everyone to not make rash plays. He has also generated a lot of discussion and pointed out many important details.

    Orcinus Duo: I think Ornicus Duo is likely town. He hasn't cleared all suspicion yet, but he is, after all, the one that started up the kok lynch, and didn't waver. There was no evidence at the time suggesting that kok was mafia, and the fact that Ornicus Duo voted against him is good indication that he is not mafia. However, there is still the possibility that he is a wolf, as he was pretty adamant about lynching mayor (me).

    Aura Guardian: I think Aura Guardian is almost certainly town. He has been promoting a lot of discussion, and has been persistent in trying to find lynch targets. He was also quick to point out that TalkingLion was likely mafia, and it makes little sense for him to try and get two mafia buddies lynched in consecutive days.

    pokemaniac 212: Seems to me that he is likely scum. He has done nothing so far but drone out exactly what everyone else has been saying, and trying to divert attention away from himself. Lets see if he can come up with a defense for himself.

    TalkingLion: I am 90% sure TalkingLion is mafia. In addition to his attempt to deflect the lynch on kok, he is also trying to fly under the rader. I mean look at this part of one of his posts. (it was the same post where he wanted to lynch Nightmare Jigglypuff) This screams to me that he is trying to divert attention away from him. For now, I'm going to stick to lynching TalkingLion until he can address the below quote and give a better defense for himself than "NJ seemed like the most scummy player to me"

    Nightmare jigglypuff: I disagree that only one of TalkingLion and Nightmare Jigglypuff can be mafia. If TalkingLion is mafia and gets lynched, then obviously, less suspicion would fall on NJ because it makes no sense for a mafia to lynch another mafia this early in the game. This would allow NJ to last very deep into the game. Just because TL turns out to be mafia does not clear NJ.
  16. Spiffy

    Spiffy

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    @Paperblade:
    No use trying to hide it...
    Again I will emphasize the importance of keeping all village roles (and lack thereof) a secret.
  17. Orcinus Duo

    Orcinus Duo

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    Claiming: Bulletproof Investigator with one shot vig.

    I kid.

    I sorta cringed at NWOs suggestion that I may be scum because I tried to lynch him at one point. You know how scummy your play was? Also for future reference, if you claim that early without any pressure ever again, I will kill you.

    Btw where's Engineer? -.-

    Whoa did TL just claim miller?
  18. TalkingLion

    TalkingLion

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    To address the quote: Yes, I admit I was trying to divert attention to myself as I did not want the village to lynch a villager on day 1, which could end up being bad as the mafia could gain more control with less villagers. Also this is only my second mafia game with my first involving me getting lynched day 1 so I don't have much experience with this.
    Also: NJ still hasn't posted in the thread which I think is making him seem more and more fishy. Not only is he being inactive, but he's avoiding us and acting fishy as well.
  19. Maxim

    Maxim

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    Man, I can't figure out this NOC game...

    Anyways, I think NJ is fishy, because he's generally been avoid us and the thread (the only reason I haven't really been posting is because I don't want to put my foot in my mouth by accident...)
  20. Spiffy

    Spiffy

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    Oh ok you're off the hook.

    ...
    ...
    ...

    Just kidding.

    If that's the reason why you don't post here, are you saying that you have something to hide?

    Maxim please answer these questions:
    -Do you think it is beneficial for the village to have one of its members be scared to post because you're afraid that you'll "put your foot in your mouth by accident"?
    -Do you realize that if you were active in discussion we might be able to focus on finding mafia instead of trying so hard to get you to be active?
    -Who do you think are the top three players most likely to be mafia alive right now?
  21. Orcinus Duo

    Orcinus Duo

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    Nice questions spiffy.

    Again, anybody who doesn't think TL is scum please take the floor. Spiffy, as I've said before, while njiggs post only makes sense for scum if empoof was also scum, TLs play benefits scum much more. So why are you more willing to believe njiggs scum than TL?

    I found EPs post fairly concerning to me but another story, another day.

    TL: why did you think it was constructive to town for you to try and change lynch target last minute, knowing that if we passed DQ without a decision town would nolynch?
  22. Maxim

    Maxim

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    Okay, sorry about not posting so much, have just been occupied lately is all.

    -Do you think it is beneficial for the village to have one of its members be scared to post because you're afraid that you'll "put your foot in your mouth by accident?

    True, I suppose I need to be more active.

    -Do you realize that if you were active in discussion we might be able to focus on finding mafia instead of trying so hard to get you to be active?

    Of course I do.

    -Who do you think are the top three players most likely to be mafia alive right now?

    Eh well, I can't really say for certain who the mafia are, haven't been checking the thread much. Any guess I could put out right now would be uninformed.

    If I need to guess, I'd say:
    NJiggly---He hasn't been responding to the threat of lynching, which means he's either inactive or mafia
    Metal Bagon---Really eager to jump on any bandwagon that comes up. Pretty easy mafia.
    Talking Lion---From what I hear he tried to change his vote at the last minute, probably trying to stealth lynch.

    So...yeah, for the moment Lynch Nightmare Jigglypuff
  23. Paperblade

    Paperblade

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    ... Oh.

    /facepalm
  24. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    Ouch. NWO was confused; I explained it to him. Sure, it's fairly obvious for you, but it might not for other people.

    Again, I didn't post because I didn't really have an opinion. If I'm going to get called out for not posting, and then get called out again for posting something "useless" because I don't have an opinion, it's kind of a catch-22, isn't it?

    If you're going to force me to vote for someone, though, I guess lynch TalkingLion? His D1 vote change was quite suspicious and no villager would see a need to change his vote.
  25. Orcinus Duo

    Orcinus Duo

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    You didnt have an opinion. So after 11 pages, you still don't have a read on anybody?

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