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Reusing the Overused

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Battler3797, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. Battler3797

    Battler3797

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Hey fellow smogon users. Its been quite some time since ive been on competitive battling but im starting to get back into it. The last i was serious in competitive battling was when garchomp and excadrill were allowed and so naturally those two formed the offensive core in my team. However, that team no longer fits all the rules and such now so i started with the same basic idea in this team. I wanted to cover as many type immunities that i could get while still having a solid and synergetic team.


    Changes in RED


    Team building process
    Show Hide
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I started out with these two guys. These two were in my original old team and have great synergy with one another. They also give immunity to fire, poison, normal, water, and fighting types with many more resistances as well. They also complete 2/3 of the beloved F-W-G core that most teams like to have.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Originally i had this slot belonging to ferrothorn for that brutal defensive core in my team that would always be tough to beat. However, i opted for a different route because as good as ferrothorn is and as good as that core is defensively it requires the rest of the team to be able to deal massive damage because that core won't deal much damage alone. With sawsbuck it is an entirely different core. Sawsbuck has the interesting sap sipper ability. This enables for him to have immunity to grass type attacks as well. Plus with his typing he is immune to ghost type attacks as well. Bringing my immunities up to six so far.



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I then added honchcrow to the team. With his typing he adds psychic, and ground type immunities to the team as well. With his ability super luck and the move Night Slash he also has a decent damage output with high critical hit chances compared to normal.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I then looked at my team and saw i was lacking someone who can really take physical hits and so i took this guy in for that purpose. Skarmory adds no immunities that i didnt have already, however he added a ton of bulkiness and defence to the team as well as multiple resistances. This also enabled me to get some spikes set up on the opponent as well.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    My final guy was a tough guy to chose. there is always the option to add weather to the team to add that minor damage to some guys each turn however, with rain becoming more popular and my team not really going to use the rain i decided not to try and make my team a huge weather battle team cause its really just a hassle for that and i decided on Krookodile. He adds a nice electric immunity as well as providing some sweeping posibilities.



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After awhile Honchcrow wasn't really working with the team. He just wasn't providing what i wanted and so i switched to Thundurus-T. Sorry about the sprite they didnt have a T-form of him so i used this. Thundurus-T has stats where his speed takes a minor toll to up his special attack up a bit compared to his normal form. I decided that his large special attack base would benefit my team greatly and he provides the same ground immunity however he swaps a psychic immunity for an electric immunity. Still having the same number of immunities so far.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Skarmory was doing the stalling job decently but he wasn't doing what i wanted. I needed someone who can take a hit and stall but do some good damage when they are needed to. Skarmory wasn't doing that so i changed him to the common poison-heal gliscor. Gliscor has some great survivability and can last really long in a battle with poison heal and roost. He still keeps good typing and is very similar to skarmory.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Gliscor just wasn't working out because it like skarmory could stall well but it couldn't really deal the damage when it was needed too. SO i racked through my brain on a guy i knew who was bulky and could deal damage. My first thought was another wall but then i started thinking about how it could counter rain teams as well and that lead me to dragonite. It has great bulkiness with multi-scale and with a roost + dragon dance set it can more then deal the damage when it needs too.



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I stuck with Krookodile for a long time but after awhile i realized he was just too fragile and wasn't working the role as well as he could for my team. I then switched him to hydreigon here who still has that psychic immunity, as well as another ground immunity. With the same immunities as Krookodile but having less weaknesses and more bulkiness he was the obvious choice. These guys together have great synergy together and are my current team.







    Team Type Spread
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The only problem this spreadsheet has is that i also have an electric immunity. My team ends up having 10 total immunities. Any that they aren't immune too they have moves to cover themselves.






    The Actual Team
    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Earth Power
    - Flamethrower
    - Roost



    This is the set my current Hydreigon is running. This set allows him to cover his team mates well. Plus with the current setup his main weaknesses are ice, fighting, bug, and dragon. with this set the only one he cant cover is fighting who is covered by Thundurus-T, Dragonite, and Jellicent. He is here to make up 1/2 of the special attack force of the team or at least 1/2 of the main special attack force. He gets great type coverage with his attacks and handles most guys really well. However, in all honesty i dont like earth power on him. It just doesn't get much use that are better then other moves so i am open to suggestions for that. He also covers heatran's ground weakness, and jellicent's ghost weakness with ease to support those team mates.



    [​IMG]
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Roar
    - Lava Plume






    This is my defensive heatran set. It is ment to get up stealth rocks on the opponent and then toxic stall them as long as possible. I also have a unique E.V. spread on him. Most people go for the flat out special wall however i think that i catch most people off guard when they find that he can take their physical attacks just as well. He is my mixed wall and can stall a lot of guys very well. He works great with everybody else on the team. He can literally cover atleast one weakness of every other person on the team and is able to take the hit and support his team mates like he needs too.





    [​IMG]
    Jellicent (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Scald
    - Will-o-Wisp
    - Taunt





    This would be my defensive jellicent set that works great with every other team mate much like heatran. He can cover atleast one weaknesss of every other team mate as well and has superb survivability. I also went for the interesting toxic + scald combination for a reason. We all know that there are very very many steel types out ther who can cause problems. Scizor specifically. Any smart person would switch their scizor out against heatran however, not many do against jellicent. He resists all of scizors moves and with scald can completely cripple the scizor and other steel types until they are useless. His great synergy with the rest of the team is invaluable as well as heatran.





    [​IMG]
    Rotom-C @ Choice Scarf
    Levitate
    Modest
    EVs: 8 HP / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
    -Volt Switch
    -Hidden Power Ice
    -Leaf Storm
    -Trick



    After the suggestion of a revenge killer on the team i started experimenting. I wanted someone who could get great type coverage, had above 105 base attack/ special attack, and had some actual speed to start out with a bit. The main problem my team was having problems with were latios which can be handled by hidden power ice. Also i had problems with stupid walls like blissey and usch if jellicent couldn't outspeed them to use taunt. So that is where trick comes in useful. It can come in and either get the revenge kill or completely screw up an opponents pokemon.







    [​IMG]
    Thundurus-T (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Grass Knot


    This guy is awesome. He does take a speed cut in this form but he also gets a special attack boost. HE still has an amazing 330 speed with this set and can outspeed and crush many opponents. He is the 2nd half of the main special attackers. He also gets great coverage with his moves and works well with many of his teammates covering their weaknesses with his move variety. He has a tough 389 special attack without any boosts. With that speed and special attack he is a very tough opponent to overcome.

    [​IMG]


    Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Roost
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Punch


    The final member of my team. Dragonite is the other half of the physical attackers in my team. He also provides the team with immense bulkiness. His ability allows him to out match other dragons, ice types, etc. With that bulkiness and the attack matched with dragon dance for extra speed and attack he becomes an immensely tough opponent to defeat. He alone is a tough guy to defeat and when you add his team mates in to cover him and his weaknesses when needed you got this guy as one tough guy to defeat. With only two attack moves he still gets a great variety of coverage losing out only to steel types who have a second fire type namely heatran. Other then that there aren't a lot of guys who can outmatch him unless he is already slightly injured and they have a scarf.




    Quick-Import
    Show Hide
    Hydreigon (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Earth Power
    - Flamethrower
    - Roost


    Thundurus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Grass Knot


    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Roar
    - Lava Plume


    Jellicent (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Scald
    - Will-o-Wisp
    - Taunt


    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sandstream
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Super Power
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit


    Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Roost
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Punch
    [​IMG]


    Unfortunately I am not too big on threatlists however, im sure through testing or just looking at the team you can tell for sure what really hurts this team. Open to all advice and thank you in advanced
  2. Nate Dog

    Nate Dog

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    I like your team but I think mamoswine might give you a whole bunch of trouble, STAB priority ice takes out half your team and he also carries superpower pretty often and that takes out two more. Then your left with just Jelly.
  3. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,745
    Hi

    This is a nice team however, there are a couple of things that I think could be changed that would make it vastly superior to its current state. Your team is not very fast, in fact, it's painfully slow. That leaves you open to very dangerous threats like Terrakion, who right now can beat your entire team. Jellicent is the only one that isn't OHKOed after Stealth Rock, but then, it won't OHKO back either, so you have to hope for a Scald burn which isn't exactly great. Opposing Thundurus-T could also be problematic, especially the NP set, as it outspeeds your whole team (bar your own Thundurus-T of course) and can seriously damage them. Another thing that could really hurt you is Starmie. It can 2HKO your whole team with the Life Orb set, and since you can't outspeed it, you're looking for trouble. It can reliably beat at least one member of your team, and it's in the worst case, as it could end up sweeping you completely. I really think that this problem comes from the fact you don't run enough speed, and adding a faster member to your team could be a very good addition. Swapping your Sawsbuck for a Choice Scarf Tyranitar could be an excellent idea, as it can easily Revenge Kill all of these threats since it outspeeds everything up to base 115s, which include some of the most dangerous threats to your team while also giving you a way to fiight opposing weather. Sawsbuck is kinda slow and frail for OU, and while the surprise value could win you games, I think it can be a dead weight in many battles. Tyranitar also gives you a tool against stuff like Latios which put a lot of pressure on your only Steel resist, Heatran. If you're worried about Dragonite's Multiscale, since you have Roost and Leftovers you should be alright.

    Opposing Stall teams could be a little tricky to deal with as you have no reliable way to break walls, and they can set up entry hazards all day long and that could really end up screwing you up. Your current Jellicent moveset could be changed to something that works much better against these kind of teams, and at the moment it doesn't do much. Replacing Protect with Taunt and Toxic with Will-O-Wisp helps it in most situations as it gives it the ability to beat stuff like Blissey and it cripples Physical attackers used by Offensive teams. You also need a bit more Speed to make it work better.

    I don't think Hydreigon needs all that coverage, since it can definetly run something more useful than Surf in its fourth moveslot. Surf is a bit redundant with Dragon Pulse and Earth Power as Earth Power + Flamethrower lets you beat every Steel types in OU and Dragon Pulse kills the rest. Roost is definetly more useful on that slot, as it abuses Hydreigon's great bulk and doesn't put its lifespan on a timer since you have Life Orb. I suggest you keep Earth Power because if you drop it stuff like Jirachi in rain become annoying. It's also much better at killing Heatran, opening the way for Dragonite.

    Finally Roar on Heatran over Protect could be a good option, since it lets you phaze stuff like Dragon Dance Dragonite locked into Outrage, or Quiver Dance Volcarona so they have to hurt themselves on Stealth Rock if they want to come back on the field, making it easier to deal with them. Protect is great but, both have their usefulness.

    Here are the sets you should use:
    Tyranitar and Jellicent (open)

    [​IMG]@ Choice Scarf
    Sand Stream
    Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    -Stone Edge
    -Crunch
    -Pursuit
    -Superpower

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Water Absorb
    Bold
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
    -Scald
    -Recover
    -Taunt
    -Will-O-Wisp


    Good luck!
  4. Battler3797

    Battler3797

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    I like your idea of a revenge killer but after some testing tyranitar just wasn't getting done what i wanted it too. So i switched it back to a F-W-G core but i made sure it was still a revenge killer who could do some damage as well. It also can handle things like latios and such still too.
  5. Scarf Wynaut

    Scarf Wynaut

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1
    If Jellicent faints, anything with a strong
    Fighting and Rock / Ice move will destroy this team.
    Examples are Mamoswine, Terrakion, Lucario,
    Conkeldurr, Mienshao, Breloom and even DD Gyarados. I
    suggest you replace Thundurus-T with Skarmory. It has
    okay synergy with your defensive core, and it lays down
    Spikes with Heatran's Rocks, making better use of
    it's Roar. It also walls all of the above aside from
    special Lucario.

    Rotom-W looks to be the better scarfed appliance
    on your team. It doesn't share an Ice weakness, and
    it's STAB hits big threats like Infernape harder.

    Jellicent having both Scald and Will-O-Wisp is a waste
    of a moveslot. Might I suggest using Surf or Ice Beam to
    replace Scald?
  6. Battler3797

    Battler3797

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    No offense but out of the huge list of guys you said will destroy this team most if not all can easily be handled by other guys. I mean terrakion is easy revenge kill for rotom, lucario is outsped and handled by thundurus, so is gyarados, mamoswine really isn't as big of a threat as it appears. Even though a stab super effective priority move hurts people forget that with the stab and super effective on most of the guys on my team its only a 120 base power normal effective attack hitting me. and mienshao and conkeldurr are handled by dragonite because of multiscale which is seriously underrated. Now if all of these threats were all on the same team that would cause problems but honestly the most you see is 1-3 of these guys max on a team and the team has enough overall support in each other to handle it. I really don't mean any offense so if anyone takes in i apologize in advanced but this team looks really broken just typed up but if its tested in actual battles and used it works a lot better then it looks. Yes those threats can be a problem on certain team mates but all of those threats can be taken care of. Though it may be just how i use this team. And jellicent very rarely faints without causing the opponent's team to be SEVERELY hindered. Normally he is one of the first guys to faint but when he does i am usually in a 4 vs 3 or 5 vs 3 situation with the advantage and a couple of their pokemon burned and at half health. I don't mean any offense but this team is a lot better then it looks or atleast from how i personally have used it, its a lot better then its receiving credit for.



    Now that my little rant is done about the jellicent dying and my team getting crushed by avergae pokemon that this team is prepared to handle il move on to the second two parts of the comment.


    Rotom-W Running two water types like that just seems like a waste of a slot. Rotom-C is just as bulky and adds better type coverage for a revenge killer or messes their team up. Plus most Ice types won't speed him unless they have priority Lets say there comes a situation of mamoswine vs Rotom-C


    An Adamant Natured 252 Attack mamoswine attacks with ice shard. IF it has all these conditions and it has a choice band equipped it will deal a minimum of 204, an average of 222 and a maximum of 242. With that realization and calculator brings me to change Rotom-C's E.V.s to 252 Spa, 248 Spe, and 8 HP. This gives Rotom-C 243 hp which Guarantees that no matter what set mamoswine is running it can not OHKO Rotom and it will lose out to Leaf Storm. That is the only priority user with high enough attack to do so. Meaning that none of the other threats will be able to stop him as well.



    As for the second comment i will be replacing scald with surf.




    However, i worked on it some more after writing this comment and will give you that my team struggles really badly with hail teams, and more importantly kyurem and such. so i am open to suggestions on replacements however i personally do not like the rotom-W set as i have used him before and he just isn't the one to be there with the teams synergy. Im open to other suggestions though.

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