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CAP 2 Revenankh Playtesting

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by DougJustDoug, Apr 12, 2008.

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  1. Sunday

    Sunday God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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    Although it's already in the analysis, I may aswell mention it here because it's relevant. All Posions, expecially with WoW, and all Grassers with Leech Seed, expecially half posion ones, do very well.
  2. Time Mage

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    In my first battle against a Revenankh, I got ROYALLY owned by it. >_>

    I've adapted Revenankh into one of my first DP teams, one that is really offensive, and it works great. It is a surprisingly good special wall, and after coming into a special attack, it can start bulk upping.

    Also, Shed Skin > Air Lock. 1-turn Rests simply rock, and the protection from statuses is really nice. Plus, it has double the PP of Moonlight.

    So far, a very fun and quite balanced (yet powerful!) pokémon.
  3. tgva8889

    tgva8889

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    Well, I think one of the main cheap parts about Revenankh so far is Shed Skin. I think one turn I basically cast Rest as a Full Restore, which turned out to be ridiculously important. Also, after two bulk ups, I survived Medicham Psycho Cuts. It was a 3HKO.

    In another battle, I crushed one with my Jirachi. I'm not sure whether my build of Jirachi is unique or anything, but it worked pretty well. It was taking rather pitiful damage after a while, and then Psychic and Toxic poison did a number on it. It was the Air Lock version, though, so that might have contributed.
  4. Luck

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    Couple questions

    1.What has been most effective counters for rev so far ?


    2.Whats early opinion on moonlight and ice punch the two most question moves on the poll?


    3.I said in ability the poll Shed skin would be better on it than dry skin, do you think this case now?
  5. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    I've been using Bulk Up/Brick Break/Shadow Sneak/Moonlight for a while with about 181 Speed, no Attack EVs and Air Lock, and I'm gonna switch to Shed Skin/Rest now to see if it fares better. I lack a Sleep absorber and I've found Moonlight's PP and his vulnerability to Toxic a pretty huge problem so far, so I think it'll go better.
  6. Aki

    Aki

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    After a few matches filled with hax it is clear that Revenankh is uncounterable once it has set up a bulk up.

    What happened was i finished setting up TS, then he switched Revenankh in. I switched skarm in, as he bulk up'd. I was going to WW then his Hammer Arm crit on me and proceeded to sweep my team.

    For a start, it has weaknesses to Flying, Ghost and Psychic. 2 Of those attacking types just plain out suck, and the other one, Ghost.

    A standard 252hp/136SpD Carefull Revenankh isn't even OHKO'd by Modest Specsgar's shadowball. Nither is it OHKO'd by NP Modest P-Z's Dark pulse. That's some serious hit-taking. Thing is, it is a counter to all of it's counters. It's got the same effect on the Metagame as chomp: You need to carry a specific counter to it in order to get by it most of the time. Syclant dosen't have that problem; Everything bar CBAnt is totally walled by Bliss (Use softboiled straight up as BB 2ko's at best), and once you find out they've got a CBAnt you switch to *Insert generic physical wall*. I just don't have enough space on my team to fit a sub-par pokemon like Weezing in just to counter Revenankh. Somthing NEEDS to be nerfed, and soon. If it's not 2KO'd by NP-Z's Dark pulse, and P-Z is arguably the best Special attacker this side of NPAzelf's STAB Psychic (Which is taken out by Shadow Sneak). Now back to revenankh-lets look at those base stats:

    90 HP / 105 Attack / 90 Defense / 65 Sp. Attack / 110 Sp. Defense / 65 Speed

    90 hp gives us a max of 384 to work with, which is almost always maxed. 105 attack lets Revenankh attack very well with it's Dual Stabs, hitting everything neutral in the entire metagame except for a Ghost/Normal.
    90 Defence is equal to Swampert, letting Revenankh take a hit or 2 before Bulking up and ShedResting back to full health and sweeping.
    65 SpA is just pitiful.
    105 Special defence is the charmer. Standard special bulkiness is 384/319, making it bulkier than Celebi and the standard Suicune before a CM. That's some serious bulk. Add to the fact that it's a Physical CM Cune with Better recovery, A Plethora of resistances, it's only weaknesses are mostly pathetic attacking types, and it has the potential to get a 100% recovery move with ShedRest.

    We've taking all of this into consideration, but we haven't pieced it together. Yes, those BS are godly. Those stabs are godly. That ability/Rest combo is godly. That bulk up shit is godly.

    Put them all together and we get the manaphy effect, too good for OU, but not good enough for ubers.

    Just a little food for thought.

    EDIT: Just saw this:
    I cannot afford to put in Weezing into my team for the sole purpose of countering Revenankh. We then end up with the chomp effect; which is "Put in a counter or loozzee lol"

    IMO Weezing does a Sub-par job of everything else other than countering revenankh, so he's not getting a place on my team.
  7. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Wrong, TG Focus blast 2KO's blissey even without a LO. However 'ant is much easyer to revenge kill then a twice BU'd Revenankh. and dont say "if you let it set up youre dumb" its very herd to stop it setting up.

    Also Weazing loses to Revenankhs with taunt+BU, however rare they may be.
  8. Time Mage

    Time Mage

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    If Venusaur, for example, is used more because of Revenankh, one of the goals of the project will be fulfilled, by allowing non-standard pokémon to the new OU metagame.

    Also, in your example you lost because you only had one Revenankh counter, and it got criticaled. That's bad luck, not Revenankh being broken. Also, while Weezing might have lost appeal in this generation, it is still a decently good pokémon, who can wall quite well. It obviously can't take Gutsed , Banded Stone Edges, or Garchomp Outrages, but can come in on a good number of other attacks and now can counter Revenankh very well. That's great.
  9. Aki

    Aki

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    Then Taunt + BU Revenankhs arn't counterable then. Also, if TG FB 2KO's bliss, then can't bliss softboiled spam until miss hax/drained?

    In short, Revenankh needs to be nerfed because there is no solid counter and it is unstoppable once it has got 1 BU off.
  10. Luck

    Luck

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    They are solid counters but people wanted ice punch on it when it didn't need it and gave it to much range to counter stuff.Take off ice punch a lot more counters and pokes are viable grass,flying and ground.
  11. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    Weezing becomes faster after Revenankh uses Hammer Arm and can easily stall it with Haze from there.

    Luck, by far the most sets only use a Fighting and a Ghost move for attacking.
  12. Tsukikage

    Tsukikage

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    I've played 5 battles yesterday with Revenankh, and in all 5 cases, the first person to get Revenankh out won (except for one extremely odd case that I'll get to in a second). Once Revenankh is out it seems you must either switch to a counter or take a risk in keeping whatever is in out hoping to uotpredict. I've found that atleast 75% of the time Revenankh's first turn is Bulk Up because it can either take whatever attack your attacking with or it is expecting a switch. So after one turn, it is already at +1 Atk and +1 Def and unless you got lucky with a crit or they brought it out on the wrong mon, you have done less than 50% back in which case the next turn it has three options. Rest/Moonlight the damage off, attack you, or if you switched take a chance and Bulk Up again. I do not carry a Weezing on my team nor has anyone I've faced so far, but that could change eventually. The only effective counter to Revenankh I've had so far was My Revenankh coming in on a once Bulk Up'd Revenankh. Mine had 4 Spd EVs, so it outsped my opponent's and mine had Shadow Punch while my opponent's had Sneak. The only reason I won that matchup was because I also had a few Atk EVs and I was using a stronger attack.

    To sum up: As of now Revenankh's only counters are BL at best. I know that we are trying to get more Pokes into OU via our project, but a Poke thats only counters need to be brought up a tier or two is the definition of broken, and they're not even 100% counters.
  13. Luck

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    I don't doubt that but fear of ice punch gives Rev the time set up by then it is late.
  14. Time Mage

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    Celebi is a pretty good OU counter. As shown in the analysis, even if it switches in a Bulk Up, Shadow Punch won't 2HKO, and it can 2HKO back with Psychic.

    Edit: Oh, and Choice Band Staraptor can OHKO with Brave Bird even after one Bulk Up (I'm pretty sure, but I haven't made the calcs to confirm it, though). And since it's always faster and it isn'affected by Shadow Sneak, it's a good counter.
  15. sbc

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    Metal Sound Zapdos is pretty good counter if you avoid the taunt. Jirachi works well too.
  16. Amelia

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    I've played with Mekkah twice yesterday, both having a Revenankh in our teams, the only difference was that his team was an attacking team, my team was a defensive team. In my opinion, he's really really bulky. I finally found a ghost that can actually fit onto my stall team to block rapid spin, as he possesses instant healing, and a lot of support moves like Knock Off.

    However, just get him Toxic'ed, and he's dead. In fact, i think it's better to switch it onto a one layer Toxic Spike for the normal Poison, that way, your Moonlight will last you longer.

    Shadow Punch scares me. 60BP is just too little.
  17. Nilf

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    After it has got one bulk up in the bag, getting two or three is all to easy, and while Rev is counterable even after one bulk up, two or three + STAB Shadow Sneak makes it pretty unstoppable. Physical attacks won't do much, while special attackers who actually threaten the thing such as gengar can be totally owned by a shadow sneak.
  18. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    The best set is Bulk Up/Rest/Shadow Sneak/Hammer Arm with Shed Skin, quite easily. It's basically Curselax with a bunch of immunities and resistances.
  19. sbc

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    Shadow Sneak is only 40BP, a bulky Cressellia max hp/340 defence only takes 38.2% average after 3 bulk ups, considering that it's SE on it. Basically put, you need 3 bulk-ups just get near 3HKOing it, and it's not even guaranteed.

    Meanwhile Cresselia can CM and blast with psychic.
  20. Luck

    Luck

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    Ok let me clear up what i was trying to say earlier,It has been one day of testing so far so it is way to early for people to pull out their Nerf blasters.I don't know yet if ice punch should come off but i do know it is smallest change that would have the biggest result, so far i have seen Venasuar,Staraptor and Togekiss and couple of other mention and taking off ice punch would turn these guys from soft counters to hard counters in the true definition of the word.

    Also i am a big believer that correct counters in the game make the game balance I call it the "Alazakam rule" a pokemon can look godly on paper but once their is a big fat pink pokemon and small black dark type laughing at you are basically useless.We are in the process of making fire/grass balance type poke and so far grass bulk types have been very effective in fighting of Rev.Also with bug, ice, fight, ghost, fire, grass basically out of the way that leaves poison, electric, dark ;left back from the i get ignored from nintendo/ gamefreak group.What does that mean in one of the next two cap polls we should get a type tailor made for beating Rev say like a Poison/Psychic or a Dark/Psychic type or something else but you catch my point.We might not have to do anything.

    I think i have said this before one the most beautiful things about the cap poll project is that if a pokemon is broken unlike Nintendo we can add another pokemon right after as the counter for it.I also believe that coolest part of the poll process is coming up soon we are going to move from what type isn't in the game and move on to the true reason of the polls what game needs and instead starting polls with types we start some like this

    What role do you want the new poke to fill

    1.Rapid spinner or some sort of stealth rock remover
    2.Garchomp counter or other difficult stop poke counter
    3.Exotic baton passer
    4.Mean look trapper
    5.Alternative pseudo hazer
    6.Weather changer
    7.Other(explain)

    And then pick what type and stats would best suit the job.Wow this turn into long post than intend.
  21. Deck Knight

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    Weezing @ Black Sludge
    ~ Shadow Ball
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Will-O-Wisp
    ~ Pain Split

    Surely this Weezing fails against both Revenanhk and Gyarados XP. Seriously, I know 85 SA isn't huge, but come on dude, just because you hate Weezing for some stupid reason and clearly haven't taken 5 seconds to look at his movepool doesn't mean we should all be saddled by your ignorance.

    Weezing shuts physical threats down, especially Ground types. They get burned and then die off.

    Now I did some testing on Shadow Ball vs. 384/308 HP/SDef Revenank, and against my Subpunch variant no SA Weezing only hits 20-24%, but there's no reason you couldn't pump its SA a little. Weezing could also haze away Rev's Bulk-Ups, leaving it useless Shed Skin or otherwise. Taunt doesn't work well with Hammer Arm. If you've Bulked Up and used Hammer Arm once, Weezing can easily come in and Haze you. Unless you've boosted speed some, 48 Speed EV's on Weezing outspeeds Revenankh.

    Also I would like to say that Taunt Gliscor is a Revenankh counter unless Rev has Ice Punch. Power Whip has too meh accuracy and Gliscor can AA in the meantime. Scizor packing AA also shows Revenankh the door.
  22. chronostrike

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    I'd like to echo the scizor thing. Revenankh doesn't have much to harm it, so it can SD up and attack or AA if it has it.
  23. Rhykune

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    Wow, Revenankh is a beast... I have swept teams in literally half my battles so far with it. Way way better than Syclant IMO, even though I didn't think it would be.
  24. Nilf

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    Cresselia isn't really a Revenankh counter. Mine runs a max def sleep talk set, and I changed Charge Beam to Psychic. While Revenankh finds it hard to dent Cress, Cress can do pittance back with Psychic, and Rev can easily just bulk up and bulk up, moonlighting off damage. CMCress and sets with Charge beam may fare better, but I can't afford to lose the Ice Beam in the last slot, and Cress helps by absorbing any status for me. Of course, CM sets etc probably just end up in Stall War....
  25. tgva8889

    tgva8889

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    My Toxic Stall Jirachi was able to beat Air Lock Revenankh. Basically stall for a little while, then Psychic for about 40% and take Revenankh down to about 10% or so. After that, he's either screwed over by Toxic, or screwed over by whatever he tries to bring Revenankh into next.

    I think that unless you have a Shed Skin Revenankh (which all should be, frankly, it's so much better than No Sandstorm/Hail), Toxic or Toxic Spikes Layer 2 functions as a counter to the usual Revenankh set.

    I'm curious to see what happens when Revenankh hits another Revenankh with Shadow Punch or Shadow Sneak while holding a Choice Band...

    The Bulk Up set is completely ridiculous against those who are unprepared.
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