1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

CAP Revision Revisions - Syclant discussion

Discussion in 'CAP Policy Review' started by Umbreon Dan, Dec 1, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Plus

    Plus freedom of the son
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Professor of B101

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,485
    I don't get your logic on this, as Walrein with Super Fang is much more viable than Syclant with Super Fang who 2hkos/ohkos most of what it needs to anyways lol, whereas Walrein would use Super Fang more efficiently because it fails to land those heavy hits unlike Syclant who already does.

    I actually think the contrary here -- Syclant will not be broken with Super Fang, and I really just view it is a minor niche/flavor move here. Reason being, in theory a 2HKO sounds like your balls have dropped. But with a glass cannon like Syclant, you are aiming to go for an OHKO instead. What will you Super Fang that wouldn't get hit harder by any of Syclant's moves? Additionally, what will Syclant Super Fang that can't hit it back, and why would Super Fang be the preferred choice of a move as opposed to Tail Glow if you had such an opportunity? Moreover, what is the value of a 2HKO on a pokemon when there are good chances that your opponent will kill you if you don't kill it first?

    In brief, the reason I did not vote Super Fang was because I didn't want to overload Syclant with some unnecessary bullshit. I guess I am one to blame for this assumption because I did not post any explanation in my vote, but If you gave something like Salamence Super Fang, I doubt it would use it over its regular moves which 2hko the majority of the OU metagame already, and even OHKO.
  2. Naxte

    Naxte

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,320
    In addition, Super Fang does nothing for 2HKOs, as it takes 50% of the opponent's current health, and not their total, so it's impossible for it to 2HKO a full-health opponent. You can use Super Fang and then another move to take off the other 50%, but if you can already do 50% or greater to the opponent with your other moves, then Super Fang is irrelevant, as you would have already been able to 2HKO it anyway. And if you don't have another move that can do 50%, then a 2HKO by using Super Fang is impossible, as you won't be able to KO the opponent by using SF twice (you'd just get them to about 25%), or by using SF+another move (depending on just how much damage the other move would do, you might come close, but you wouldn't actually be able to do so). Edit: I suppose by assuming SR damage on the opponent, this might not necessarily be true, and Syclant would be able to 2HKO some things it wouldn't normally be able to, but that also depends on just how weak to SR the opponent is, if they were holding Leftovers or not, etc, so it would still only come out to actually work that way in specific situations, which still probably wouldn't matter, as Syclant wants to be OHKO Pokemon more than anything, as it's just not bulky.

    Super Fang is only good for using it twice to get the opponent down to around 25% and then using another move to take care of that last chunk, for an effective 3HKO that Syclant would otherwise be unable to get at all or just barely miss pulling off. Thing is, Syclant is a fail sweeper as Plus said, and does not want to be doing 3HKOs as a result--if it tries to do so, it will most likely die, as it just doesn't have that kind of longevity.

    Beyond that, there's the concept of Syclant using it's speed to switch in, Super Fang, then go out again to try to open huge holes in teams. Thing is though, doesn't work in practice because Syclant is frail and most likely won't be able to survive the counter-attack, as Plus mentioned, and is able to get the KOs it needs anyway. If being able to do that was really broken, we'd be seeing Super Fang Crobat everywhere doing just that. But we aren't, because while it might sound nice in theorymon, it doesn't work in practice.

    Due to this, I really don't have much of a problem with Super Fang.
  3. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,202
    The verdict is in; the result of the poll was:
    Code:
    Focus Blast     19
    Grass Knot      17
    Megahorn        17
    Spikes          15
    Vacuum Wave     15
    Focus Punch     13
    Earthquake      12
    Leaf Blade      12
    Stone Edge      12
    Psychic         11
    ------------------- cutoff
    Super Fang      6
    There were 20 voters (one did not vote); every move except Super Fang will be implemented on Syclant.

    Our new and improved Syclant:
    [​IMG]
    70 / 115 / 70 / 115 / 65 / 120
    with the following added as tutor moves:
    ...and that concludes this thread. I'd appreciate if I could get a super mod to lock this, thanks.
  4. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight October Surprise
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,575
    Ninjapost:

    Wouldn't it just be easier to make Leaf Blade, Spikes, and Megahorn heart scale moves (or at least LB, Megahorn and Spikes could be tossed on in Level-up somewhere), since every other move is a TM or Tutor to begin with?
  5. tennisace

    tennisace
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,949
    In addition to those moves, Syclant will also get the HGSS tutor moves that were linked to in a previous post. I'll leave this open for a little while longer so people can comment.
  6. Plus

    Plus freedom of the son
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Professor of B101

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,485
    Ud, it seems that dragonites voted. Are you going to change the results, if any? I'm not sure if Psychic still made the cut.
  7. tennisace

    tennisace
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,949
    Psychic still got 11/21, which is still more than 50% (52% to be exact). Dnites vote doesn't affect the totals at all. And with that, I'm locking this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)