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Riolu - OU Copycat 'Sweeper'

Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by Ubiquitous, May 24, 2011.

  1. Ubiquitous

    Ubiquitous

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    RIOLU - THE COPYCAT SWEEPER

    [​IMG]

    Some people may be thinking: 'Why the hell has some idiot gone and done some thread on Riolu in OU?"

    If you are in this bracket, I urge you to watch this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KId0j4g5KE

    Have you watched? If you haven't, WHY NOT??? Go watch it.

    If you have watched it, you're probably intrigued. You probably know that people have been using Lv1 Aron on Sandstorm teams to abuse Sturdy+Endeavor to relative success, as if your team lacks something that can stop it (i.e something that doesn't take damage from sandstorm), you're basically screwed. However, Riolu is more obscure. The tactic it uses is known as 'speed shuffling', which involves phazing moves bypassing their negative priority, and abusing this to rack up residual damage from Stealth Rock and if possible, Spikes. There are various ways of performing 'speed shuffling' - the most common one is with a fast Sleep Talker. However, some people have based whole teams round speed shuffling, having one pokemon to use Stealth Rock, then smacking on a Pokemon like Skarmory that pack only moves like Roar and Whirlwind, and the rest of the team is based up of assist users, normally choice scarfed unless it's Liepard, who also has Prankster. This way, the Assist user goes first, generates a phazing move, and forces out the opponent, racking up residual damage. They then have a dedicated finisher pokemon who cleans up the last pokemon (who cannot be phazed out), normally with just one move. Riolu, however, has developed a new form of Speed shuffling, involving a phazing move and a priority Copycat.

    SET: Speed Shuffler

    Riolu

    -Roar
    -Circle Throw
    -Copycat
    -filler
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252Atk/252Spe
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Prankster

    So, what makes it work? Well, Riolu obtained the new ability Prankster from the Dream World. In case you didn't know, this ability increases the priority of non-attacking moves by one stage. The idea is to set up Stealth Rock, and if possible, Spikes (although Spikes are not necessary), while keeping them off your side of the field to preserve Riolu's Focus Sash. Then send in Riolu when one of your team members faints, survive the hit with the sash, and use a phazing move (roar if the opponent has a Ghost type on his team). This will drag out the next Pokemon. Then, Riolu can spam a priority Copycat to copy HIS OWN MOVE and bypass the negative priority of his phazing move. This allows Riolu to speed shuffle and rack up hazard damage. Copycat has 20PP, 32 with PP max. 32 turns of shuffling the opponent's team and hazard damage! Hell yeah. Riolu will cause more ragequits than any other pokemon (hopefully... imagine their face when they realise they're being owned by a Riolu, of all Pokemon... :-D)


    In case you're sceptical of Copycat, a) Watch that goddamn video, and b) Here's the description from Psypoke:
    Because your phazing move has negative priority, you will always go last, barring trick room (which still can't stop the strategy because the user will be forced out before it can move, meaning the phazing move will still be the last move used). This means that when Riolu uses his priority Copycat, barring faster priority moves, he will copy the his phazing move. This cycle continues...


    So what stops Riolu sweeping?

    Unfortunately, many things, which means if you want your Riolu to sweep, you'll have to provide the necessary team support.

    1) LACK OF ENTRY HAZARDS ON THE OPPONENT'S SIDE. Yeah, if there's no Stealth Rock up, you aren't doing any damage when you phaze the opponent. That sucks. YOU MUST HAVE AT LEAST STEALTH ROCK UP.

    2) ENTRY HAZARDS ON YOUR SIDE. This will break Riolu's focus sash and as a result ruin the strategy. To counter this you could use a Magic Bounce user or a Rapid Spinner to keep off hazards.

    3) FASTER PRIORITY USERS. This means any Pokemon packing ExtremeSpeed, as well as priority users who invest fully in Speed with over 60 base, which outspeeds Riolu. With team preview, MAKE SURE YOU NOTE ANY POTENTIAL PRIORITY USERS. Then proceed to eliminate them accordingly.

    4) SANDSTORM OR HAIL. Unfortunately Riolu does not share the steel typing that its evolution Lucario has; this means that Sandstorm will negate its Focus Sash at worst, or reduce its 'sweep' to 16 turns at best. To stop this, you could put Drought Ninetales or Drizzle Politoed on the team, or run Sunny Day/Rain Dance on one or more of your pokemon.


    So yeah. You can now see that with the appropriate team support Riolu can actually be threatening in OU. Gimmicky, sure, but also effective. Also, I take no credit for the set - I DID NOT INVENT IT. Whoever did is a genius.
  2. Khift

    Khift

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    I am not very familiar with the tournament scene and other legality questions, but isn't Riolu currently unavailable from the Dream World and therefore not legal to be used with it's DW ability in competitive at the moment?

    I know I've never seen a Riolu in the DW and Serebii doesn't have it listed on their DW area, so unless there's been an event I don't know of it's probably currently unattainable.
  3. Fiddy

    Fiddy

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    I have seen this before but I personally think it is too gimicky. However, just like a lot of gimicky things, if pulled off it will do some heavy damage.

    The problem is all of the things that are stoping riolu are very popular.

    Opponents using rapid spin? Popular with starmie, donphan, excadrill, hitmontop and more

    Opponents have Priority? Popular espicially since dragonite got a boost, mach punch got a boost and really good fighting types

    Opponents having atleast one layer of any entry hazards? Very popular

    And tyranitar is the second most popular pokemon in the game. Sandstorm is very popular, and that's not even including hippowdon and abomasnow.

    Just way too gimicky IMO.
  4. Troggy

    Troggy

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    The opponent in the video you linked is really bad, but I suppose this is a fun gimmicky set to try once in a while.
  5. Randy

    Randy

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    does riolu lose prankster upon evolving into lucario?
  6. Ubiquitous

    Ubiquitous

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    And yes, Lucario has Justified instead of Prankster.
  7. PokéMontage

    PokéMontage

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    Yes. If Lucario had Prankster, why would Riolu even be brought up lol

    Anyway, I agree that this is pretty gimmicky, but it's evil and hilarious if you manage to pull it off. Priority Roar = wtf.
  8. Nubagator

    Nubagator

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    Saul's Riolu set is a monster to stop without sand, or priorety, and it will be amazing when it is released, however this will never receive a ban because it doesn't work on PO. the PO mechanics are different on this than in the actual game on this.
  9. Fiddy

    Fiddy

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    ^
    I understand what you are saying but what I think is that it sounds great on paper, but it is much easier said then done. You can say pack a spinner to eliminate entry hazards but what if your spinner dies? Starmie and donphan don't last forever. And magic bounce users are countered by the very thing that riolu hates: tyranitar.

    Basically what you are saying is this:
    -pack a spinner
    -pack dugtrio
    -pack ninetales or politoad
    -pack someone to counter all of the priority users in the game minus scizor and conkeldurr
    -pack rioulu
    -pack someone to set hazards
    -if you can fit it, pack a spin blocker

    If just ONE of those pokemon go down without doing their job the rest of the team is useless. And if the opponent goes on the offensive and you only set up SR and POSSIBLY one layer of spikes, copycat may not be enough to sweep.

    Not to mention whimsicott and magic bounce would enjoy picking apart this team.

    But again, if you do manage to pull it off, it is pretty much GG and pure evil. This could definitely work against a new player but an experienced one I think not. But thank you for posting this. I completely forgot about it and I think I will try it against some of my noob friends just to piss them off :)
  10. moogleking

    moogleking

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    Things to add to the list of problems-
    IF YOU USE ROAR-
    Magic Bounce Pokemon; Espeon and Xatu. A good Pursuiter can take these out.
    Soundproof Pokemon; Electrode and Exploud. Never gonna happen.

    IF YOU USE CIRCLE THROW-
    Ghosts; Plenty of these. Pack a Pursuit user.
    Iron Barbs/ Rough Skin/ Rough Helmet; Ferrothorn is the only one of these who is common and he's weak to Circle Throw. It'll deal ~25% so prepare accordingly.

    THINGS THAT STOP EITHER-
    Suction Cups Pokemon; Cradily and Octillery. Cradily is weak against Overhead Throw; and max damage will deal ~27%, so you only need to deal ~50% damage with SR/ Spikes. Roar is buggered though. Octillery tend to run Sniper anyway.
    Ingrain; No priority users of the move, so not a threat.
  11. Phadunk

    Phadunk

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    Priority Roar.. lol.. honestly dont know how i would stop it.
  12. the interwebs

    the interwebs

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    circle throw is NOT a good idea on this thing

    the damage it deals is nice, but it has only 90% accuracy, which could kill the entire strategy.
  13. Ubiquitous

    Ubiquitous

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    Woah woah woah! I never said anything of the sort. Some of these roles can be fulfilled by the same Pokemon, ya know? For example, Forretress can serve as a spinner and lay hazards at the same time, and you don't HAVE to pack dugtrio or a droughtales/drizzletoad, they're just suggestions to help. Dugtrio is helpful but not necessary, and tornadus/thundrus could just as easily be used to set up priority rain while luring in T-tar and eliminating it with Hammer Arm. By putting multiple roles on each pokemon, you can have a backup plan; no team revolving around one strategy should be without one. I see where you're coming from, though.
  14. Phadunk

    Phadunk

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    Little shits like this make you reevaluate your team.. lol. wtf.
  15. Lbuh

    Lbuh

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    I'm pretty sure Circle Throw cannot be copied by CopyCat.

    Priority Roar can still be very effective though.
  16. Abacus

    Abacus

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    eh, people got a little excited about this when it was discovered, but it's so vulnerable to so many things...

    Rapid spin is a threat to it, because they can spin before you get the chain going. Also, magic guard users make it so that a clean sweep will never happen.

    It's also a make or break strategy. If it works, then it works wonderfully. If it doesn't, then you pretty much lose (you're at least playing 6-5). Most battlers aren't okay with such a high risk strategy.

    Also, the youtube community is infinitely amusing. They LOVE "originality" and ignore that the opponents in these videos tend to be awful.
  17. Ewil

    Ewil

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    I love this originally Move set, but like someone says, he have a lot of hole in this strategy and the rest of the team must handle that perfectly. Riolu is fragile enough and he die easy.

    Who can be a good teammate for he ?
    Based on the weakness in the first post, we must have a spinner, a setupper, a ghost and something to switch that resist all the priority and kill the user/s
  18. NDenizen

    NDenizen

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    I've always enjoyed this gimmick, ever since I was caught out by it. It has a nice surprise element, and Copycat Prankster can always be useful. As a lead, it can copy hazards and shuffle the opponents team around, and later on with enough hazards set down, it can really cause havoc. It fares fairly nicely against most threats.

    The problem is, Riolu is frail even with Eviolite, and maxing out defenses means your Circle Throw lacks attack power it might appreciate, and even then you can't take a ton of hits or recover. Circle Throws less-than-ideal accuracy can be a huge pain, too.

    One of the better sets i've used is this:

    Riolu @ Eviolite / Wide Lens / Chesto Berry
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Circle Throw
    - Copycat
    - Iron Defense / Bulk Up
    - Roar / Rest

    The core of the idea is to boost up against Physical attackers and non-threats (prankster helps with this nicely), then when you're ready, keep using regular Circle Throw, saving the Copycatted version for Special attackers or other things that might ruin the fun. Team Preview helps this nicely, giving you the opportunity to focus on certain counters to Riolu - you don't need to take all its threats out, as one can be left for Priority CT.
    Iron Defense is best for getting bulky quick, but if you appreciate Attack, Bulk Up is there.
    Roar is in case you want to be able to deal with Ghosts.
    Eviolite naturally gives you the defense, and is a nice default.
    Wide Lens boosts Circle Throw to 99% percent, avoiding annoying misses, or you can opt for a priority ChestoRest to alleviate a lack of recovery. Without eviolite, Iron Defense will boost defenses to 392, so you don't utterly need it.

    Priority Copycat is nice, but I feel something like a bulky Dragonite with Dragon Tail and Roost will make better use of Offensive Shuffling.
  19. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    I tried this strategy a couple of months ago and it doesn't work on Pokemon Online, Copycat tries to copy itself on the second go and it fails. :(

    Since then I've tried making an assist-phazing team and yeah pretty much the same common problems arise: Magic Bounce, Magic Guard, Extremespeed, Sand and Regenerator are bitches. Also most good players can set up entry hazards or spin safely at any time in the game and priority taunt is quite common on a lot of good teams.

    edit:
    This is a really good point, there are stuff out there like Sleep Talk Garchomp and Dragon Tail Dragonite that does pretty much the same job more reliably.
  20. breh

    breh
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

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    wouldn't ferrothorn counter this really hard? if it's forced in, it protects. if it's forced out, riolu loses 1/8 of its HP (which is in addition to 1/16 of its HP if you're playing in SS)

    conversely, you can't ever win vs. reuniclus.
  21. GreekSnorlax

    GreekSnorlax

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    Riolu won't lose HP if it's using Roar. Iron Barbs only does damage on contact.
  22. NubKnightZ

    NubKnightZ

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    Though this can't beat Magic Guard users, you can phaze until everything except the Magic Guard user is left. Then pick it off with another Pokemon.
  23. Phi

    Phi

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    I'm too lazy to do the calcs, but I think this might be more effective as an anti-phazing support than some sort of weird suicide sweepers. The only other priority roar is Assist, which basically forces you to dedicate your team to it, while this can be done anytime you're dragged out after a roar or whirlwind. If I remember correctly, phazing moves switch out the next pokemon in your party, so you can put him behind your most likely to be phazed pokemon in your party and have him go to town. The question is if the boost from eviolite lets him survive anything of note that would allow him to start a circle throw cycle or if it's better to just have leftovers to fight various residual damage. Priority whirlwind's a pretty good thing to be able to throw around, especially since it forces out anything that's trying to shuffle your team.
  24. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    With ttar on practically on most teams and the use of ferrothorn and said ttar for hazards this is not going to work reliably. It's cute though.
  25. sax king

    sax king

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    Last time I checked, this didn't work on PO. I posted in the PO thread, but I never got a response. Has this been fixed, and does this work on PO now?

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