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Riolu [QC 0/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by BKC, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. BKC

    BKC
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    [​IMG]
    [08:03] <%ginganinja> do ya reckon we need to give Riolu an OU analysis
    [08:03] * +Pocket bitchslaps ginganinja


    [Overview]
    - takes "speed shuffling" to a whole new level with prankster
    - prankster + copycat is very useful for revenge killing
    - rendered useless by priority attacks, magic bounce mons, and protect
    - sandstorm/hail also render its focus sash useless so it loses some effectiveness since it cannot use it to take a hit and get the first roar off
    - needs tons of support and is incredibly frail, but very deadly under the right circumstances

    [SET]
    name: Prankster [subject to change]
    move 1: Copycat
    move 2: Roar
    move 3: Hi Jump Kick / Drain Punch
    move 4: Rain Dance / Sunny Day / Substitute / Protect / Magnet Rise
    item: Eviolite
    nature: Impish
    ability: Prankster
    evs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 128 SpD / 52 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    - the only mon in the game with a priority phazing move
    - is capable of revenge killing certain mons after a teammate has been KO'd by copycatting their move back at them [ie salamence outrage]
    - can sweep or severely weaken entire teams simply by spamming prankster copycat roar with multiple entry hazards on the field
    - naive nature and 4 spatk evs in case it has to copycat a special attack [ie thunder vs starmie]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    - needs entry hazards to work; deoxys-d is ideal since it has fast sr and spikes
    - enjoys wobbuffet support since it can encore moves like substitute which gives riolu a free switch-in to get its roar --> copycat thing going
    - can out-priority slower mons such as scizor or breloom but gets its copycat + roar strat disrupted by >240 spe prio mons [dragonite, mamoswine, anything with fake out], so skarm is a good partner since it can beat them and set up spikes
    - enjoys having a teammate that can clean up the remains of battered teams, scizor/breloom have priority and scarf moxiemence can use its high speed to finish the game

    [checks and counters]
    - xatu/espeon, because magic bounce
    - priority from mons faster than 240 spe
    - fake out from anything [but only mienshao uses it and hes rare as is]
    - protect
    - reuniclus doesnt take hazard damage due to magic guard

    [other options]
    - nothing, really
  2. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    You're missing OO and C&C parts smh noobkc teehee

    Also Drain Punch is pretty cool on that, as it gives you recovery which can be pretty great. Eviolite is also a good item if you don't want to risk the Sash~ Fake Out also destroys that nigga.
  3. BKC

    BKC
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    Added OO, even though there's nothing to really put there.

    I initially tested with Eviolite but Riolu is so frail it's not worth it.

    Added mention of Fake Out and slashed Drain Punch in with HJK.
  4. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
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    do we really have to give this an analysis... i mean SO FUCKING ANNOYING.

    i suppose since its viable we do and i was wondering why it had no analysis tbfh

    c&c should have taunt, prankster taunt, magic coat, and other priority definitely

    also mention hail.

    and mention that offensive teams in general put lots of pressure on it so as to not give it much time to do what it wants and for deo-d to set up hazards and that magic guard + spikes immune and sr resistant mons are a pain in its ass

    oh yeah set name really needs to be annoying little bitch
  5. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Deer Lord
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    Name it Every Turn I'm Shufflin'

    Once you add Checks & Counters, mention that Espeon and Xatu completely cockblock it.
  6. Masterclass

    Masterclass

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    actually i suck ass. because i misplayed the set.
  7. giggity69

    giggity69

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    Eviolite is definitely worth it. It doesn't save him from too many offensive mons attacks, but things like defensive rotom's hydro pump, Toxic Gliscor's EQ, and +1 Sub CM Latias's dragon pulse are kept way out of OHKO range and you arent left with 1HP to die by SS or hail. Usually by the time you have enough hazards down to make decent use of riolu, your opponent has rocks or something, too, so relying on focus sash, even if you pack a spinner, isn't reliable at all.

    Eviolite>sash in pretty much every way.
  8. BKC

    BKC
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    I used Riolu on a Deo-D rain team with Tentacruel for practically guaranteed spins and to get rid of sand/hail; Sash actually came in handy almost every game against offensive teams, since without it Riolu wouldn't be able to live a hit and get his Roar off. I'll slash Eviolite in but I think Sash should definitely be the first option.

    I'll slash Taunt in the last moveslot and mention Reuniclus.

    Still looking for a good set name.

    edit: already mentioned Wobb as a teammate and I'll slash in Leftovers as the item
  9. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    With Wobbuffet support you can Encore many non attacking moves to bring Riolu in safely. If a status move is used, obviously use Safeguard too. Leftovers surely deserves an AC mention, if not a slash on the main set, as it lets Riolu bypass damage from weather, which is major.
  10. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
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    "The Lowest BST in OU"

    Protect in OO? Allows you to scout and hit with priority at 1 HP.
  11. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    If its main option is a Focus Sash, its going to want Rapid Spin support from something like Starmie or Donphan or whatever so then something like Lucario (the irony) isn't going to completely ignore that item.

    Should be Magic Guard.
  12. BKC

    BKC
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    added protect and fixed the magic bounce/guard thing
  13. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Needs a big huge gigantic mention of Tornadus-T. I remember a game that I won against a Riolu because it simply could not kill Tornadus-T due to Regenerator, and the rest of the guy's team was Torn-T weak, so it killed the rest of my team and then immediately died once it ran out of Copycat PP.

    If you run Riolu, DO NOT make the rest of your team weak to Regenerator mons, or you will lose. That's all.
  14. giggity69

    giggity69

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    Just call it priority shuffler, that is what it does, anyway
  15. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
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    yes but it needs a good name i mean its SO annoying.
  16. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Oh wow OU Riolu is actually a thing.

    I'm honestly okay with Every Turn I'm Shufflin' and other creative names for that matter. Don't take it too far though.

    Also, wtf is up the mass slashitis on that set? Even though I haven't tested it out yet, I'd condense it so the set looks like this:

    [SET]
    name: Prankster (or whatever)
    move 1: Copycat
    move 2: Roar
    move 3: Hi Jump Kick / Drain Punch
    move 4: Substitute / Taunt / Protect
    item: Focus Sash / Leftovers
    nature: Naive
    ability: Prankster
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    The weather moves are relegated to the AC because half the time Riolu should be paired up with some weather control (i.e. Politoed or Ninetales or a Rain/Sunny Day Pokemon) in order to get rid of hail and sandstorm. Riolu under no circumstance should be used as a weather control Pokemon itself. Using a weather moves also wastes a potential turn and enables a free hit on it. I also removed Eviolite because what's the point of that if Riolu's dying to most hits anyway?

    The last moveslot will be the most troublesome one. Theoretically Substitute might be the best choice, since some may attempt to use status on Riolu. A Substitute also offers a free life against attacks, should they be unavoidable. Taunt is pretty cool because it's a priority Taunt, and Protect's Protect.

    You may also want to explain why Circle Throw is a bad alternative to Roar on this set (because I, and perhaps many others, can and will actually took the time to wonder and research about it). Low PP (edit fuck me it's Copycat's PP), 90% accuracy, and vulnerability against Ghosts and Rough Skin/Iron Thorn Pokemon don't make it much appealing. (edit double penetration time it doesn't work with Copycat at all.)

    Other Options should include Iron Defense and Agility, since realistically Riolu isn't boosting very often. These moves, however, help it bypass or take priority easier in some way, but meeh.
  17. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
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    I suppose I'll throw in my support for Every Turn I'm Shufflin'
  18. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I'm afraid I'm probably not going to approve this unless I've underestimated Riolu's use outside of a prankster roar sweep (it's quite hard to judge how effective copycat is for revenge killing without using Riolu extensively). Not only does Riolu require a significant degree of support (hazards, spinning, winning the weather war against sand/hail, setup opportunities) but also has a really large number of counters. Riolu should be compared with the many powerful setup sweepers in OU, and does not compare well. It's countered by anything with ExtremeSpeed, Protect, Fake Out or Magic Coat, for starters, which is a lot of pokemon: Dragonite, Lucario, Tentacruel, Gliscor, and some Politoed, ferrothorn, jirachi, heatran, deoxys-d, vaporeon, chansey and blissey. It gets beaten by any faster priority users, including Jolly Mach Punch Breloom, Mamoswine (prediction required to avoid HJK), Toxicroak, and some Dugtrio. It dies due to sandstorm or hail, meaning that Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow can all prevent a sweep. Magic Bounce stops it, meaning that Espeon and Xatu can hard counter Riolu. To be honest, I have to disagree with SDS about mentioning Tornadus-T - pokemon that don't die to riolu are the least of your problems; the problem is the enormous list of pokemon that stop it right in its tracks, even with all that support. If you want to go into pokemon that don't die though, there are loads more! Anything with Magic Guard or Regenerator will at best remain at the same level of health if not recovering. Other Pokemon with natural hazard resistance can be similarly problematic.

    Overall, it's unlikely that you would face a team without a riolu counter. Bearing in mind that most of the counters will stop riolu even at a low level of health, it really should not be difficult to maintain one of them to keep Riolu at bay. I think the effectiveness of riolu is being overestimated, just because of that feeling of hopelessness that it creates when it sweeps. It draws out its victory to make it all the more memorable. But ultimately, I just don't think it ought to sweep enough to be worth it.

    edit: the reason that you don't use circle throw is that it doesn't work lol. Its pp doesn't matter either. Probably ought to mention it anyway. I'd agree that substitute is the best option in the last slot though, as it's the best defense against protect, provided that you have enough health left, and can potentially give you a free setup in the face of a status move or innacurate move. Taunt and Protect are, frankly, terrible. Don't see what on earth they're for.
  19. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    Copycat can't even grab Circle Throw iirc. I wanted it in my LC Riolu.
  20. giggity69

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    Riolu definitely has counters, but if you arent pairing it with gotholite or something else to trap stuff then you are doing it wrong, anyway. The easy to kill magic bounce users and the only 2 common fake out users I can think of (infernape and meinshou, I am sure there are others) are all taken out handily by scarf or specs goth. Actually, specs goth kills gliscor and defensive toed, and can trick the blobs and heatran - there go the protect users. High jump kick already threatens chansey, Blissey, and heatran, so you can bait a protect and just roar. Obviously you wouldn't want to just run in a HJK against any of them because you will miss and die, but you can just roar instead of copycat when you KNOW they will protect to break the chain, then either start it back up with copycat, or HJK/Dpunch to lay on some damage. This is a lot more effective when you have eviolite to bring attacks like SpD heatrans lava plume down to the 40% range in neutral weather so you can take an attack and HKJ or re-roar. Without eviolite, attacks like toeds scald in the rain start to kill you, when you really shouldn't be fearing attacks coming from the defensive protect-users so you can set up on them.

    Main point: Use gotholite, understand protect doesn't necessarily counter you.
  21. Lavos Spawn

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    Definitely approving this once you list Protect as the primary option for the 4th moveslot. Since Riolu is beaten by so few things, it makes sense to try to cut down on what it can actually lose to. Fake Out is one of the few options listed, and, well, Protect blocks it.

    Another bright idea I had, Magic Bounce users kick this set's ass, so why not try Crunch as the 4th option? Lets you make some more use of those Attack EVs, and hey look:

    252 Atk Riolu Crunch vs 252 HP/200 Def Xatu (+Def) : 33.53% - 39.52%

    It's a potential 2HKO on Xatu after Stealth Rocks! And there's more...

    252 Atk Riolu Crunch vs 252 HP/0 Def Espeon: 52.69% - 62.28%

    A flat-out 2HKO on standard Espeon! Oh, the power! Seriously, though, Crunch is not a bad idea at all and should be taken completely seriously. It even lets you finish off Reuniclus if it's at low health so it doesn't set up TR and last-Poke-sweep you.
  22. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    But Fake Out still screws you over even if you have protect...
  23. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    I reckon Toxic is a good option for the last slot. Like SDS said, this set becomes useless if you have a team that's relatively weak to something like Tornadus-T. Well, after you're done shuffling everything, you can cripple that last mon by throwing Toxic on it. It's not exactly specific, either, you can always priority Toxic something in a clutch.
  24. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    QC Rejected 1/3

    Yeah this thing is bad. I gave it a try, and a team consisting mostly of trappers, spikers and spinners was winning more without riolu's help than with it. As I've said, too many things stop Riolu, and far too much support is required.
  25. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    jc104, I've seen this do work - it's certainly a viable set in OU

    BKC, add Crunch, Iron Defense, Toxic, and Agility in OO. Also drop Sunny Day / Rain Dance down to AC, as AccidentalGreed, suggested.

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