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Gen 2 [RMT] animal testing

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Lavos Spawn, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    yo, made a gsc team on a whim and tested it out for about 50 battles. it did alright but i've got some serious concerns about its ability to break through the stuff i'm aiming for. seems to get in real trouble with boom teams etc., opponent can create a favorable matchup and then capitalize on it. anyways i'll let you all take a quick look, tell me what you think.

    [​IMG]
    Cloyster (M) @ Leftovers *** exogenesis
    - Spikes
    - Toxic
    - Surf
    - Explosion

    lead #1, i alternate with zapdos a bit. gets spikes up and keeps them up, or at least that's the idea. i opted for icy wind + explosion over something like spin + toxic because this is the best way to kill starmie, plus the team's not supposed to drag out the game so toxic doesn't really fit w/it all. boom has saved me a ton of times too, it's great utility for when i'm in a tight spot. surf 2hkos ttar and 3hkos forry, that's the only reason i use it.

    edit: changed icy wind out for toxic, see post #17 for rationale.

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos @ Leftovers *** hummingbird
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Thunder

    lead #2 and growth receiver #1. i switch it up a lot. standard zap is my way to avoid getting shit on by grounds too much plus it's in the business of knocking off water types like vap and cune. hp ice over water or grass because it hits eggy who's a real bitch to the team, and idc about quagsire. thunder is better than tbolt, and besides the whole idea of the team is to pass boosts from espy to zappy so i can get a sweep going on. spikes + thunder at +1 means if i can hit both thunders i get a 2hko on lax which is freakin awesome. especially if they lack raikou they're in big trouble once i pass to this thing. moving on.

    [​IMG]
    Espeon (M) @ Leftovers *** inspire
    - Growth
    - Baton Pass
    - Morning Sun
    - Psychic

    star of the team and gets shit done. growth is really great and when i pass a couple boosts to zapdos it's often over. i don't even have to pass a lot of the time, psychic is really strong by itself and at +1 i think i 3hko every phazer in the ou tier not named roar ttar. not bad at all. i did some testing and let me tell you morning sun is so much better than sub, gives espy the staying power it needs to set up against a ton more stuff than sub lets you dodge. besides i'm passing my boosts so i shrug off toxic pretty easily. leech seed's annoying but idc enough about it to change to sub.

    [​IMG]
    Machamp (M) @ Leftovers *** concert crush
    - Curse
    - Cross Chop
    - Rock Slide
    - Hidden Power [Bug]

    the champion. this is the slot i'm both most and least sure about. i really needed something to manhandle ttar so i went with the first bulky ass man that came to mind. not really sure about my current set though. i know curse is fine but i'm wondering if a resttalk variant would be more appropriate. at the same time, i want to keep what i have, especially hp bug which donks unwary eggys that think they can switch in because i would never hp ghost into lax. p sure thiago's fallen for that six or seven times now, but i digress. if anyones got suggestions for replacements here i'd appreciate it.

    [​IMG]
    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers *** cynical
    - Rest
    - Curse
    - Body Slam
    - Lovely Kiss

    lax is kind of a must, he's my catch all special wall and i love him for it. i run eq so my team isn't completely swept by gengar but i'm not sure if i should go for curse or belly drum as my setup move, or maybe no setup at all and run sleep talk...ah the possibilities are endless with lax, and thats the conundrum that i'm running into. so yeah alternate ideas are curse>drum and slptalk>drum, gimme some feedback.

    edit: alright as a result of all the info i've been getting i changed belly drum to curse. gonna see how this works out. also changed return to bslam because spreading para looks cool for this team, couple slow mons could really use it.

    edit: changed earthquake out for lovely kiss, see post #17 for rationale.

    [​IMG]
    Steelix (M) @ Leftovers *** aftermath
    - Curse
    - Earthquake
    - Roar
    - Body Slam

    last member was kind of a no brainer, i needed an electric immunity so random zapdos crit on lax wouldn't totally screw me plus i had to have a solid phazer to rely on if things got dicey. curselix was the perfect pokemon for the job. only real interesting thing here is that i opted for rock slide over explosion because i feel that cloyster's utility boom is better than steelix's and that if i'm going to be using this to check zapdos i need a better way to scare it out than just explosion.

    edit: changed rock slide out for body slam, see post #17 for rationale.

    yea so mind helping me out a little? suggestions critiques etc. thanks, everything's appreciated
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Glad that you're dabbling in one of the most underappreciated metagame of all time, lavos. I'm not a fan of your standard DrumLax set, though. Your team already lacks quite a bit of defense, and running a DrumLax only exacerbates this problem. I think a mixed CurseLax set is more appropriate here to give you not just the offensive boost, but some more defensive backing.

    I am thinking Curse - Double-Edge - Rest - Thunder / Fire Blast. Thunder and Fire Blast both fry Skarmory, but Thunder also catches Cloyster off-guard and great for that paralysis chance versus Miltank / Umbreon / Gengar. Fire Blast certainly helps more against Steelix, though.
  3. Royal Flush

    Royal Flush in brazil rain
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    Looks good but kinda weak to Marowak. Cloy takes around 45% to unboosted EQ so when the opponent realizes he's your only real switch to wak, you'll be in a very bad position, especially if he's using good support (cleric, para spread). I'd try Eggy to keep the offensive mindset, but I don't know what I'd replace really.


    And I'd honestly WANT to face Gengar, he's your best bet to grab a switch to Espeon, so maybe Lovely Kiss on Lax? Curse Fire move is also a pretty good set against those boom teams if you are so afraid of them, its a personal favorite of mine.
  4. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    yeah pocket like it says in the description i've really been considering switching up the lax set to something else because like you said the lack of defense kinda sucks. i'll definitely be dropping belly drum but i think thunder's kind of a bad idea simply because i'm so marowak weak and i don't want to give it yet another move it can switch into. i kinda wanted to keep eq and just make it a curselax because gengar's so obnoxious, but i'll test out fire blast and tell you what i think.

    hey royal flush, spot on about the marowak weakness, i know i'm weak to it and it hurts. that said, i accepted that in teambuilding because i knew i'd rather be weak to wak than stuff like curse ttar, because even if i'm weak to it i can potentially play around wak, whereas if i'm swept by cursetar, well, i'm swept. there's nothing i can do about it. if i were to add eggy it'd be in place of espeon which kinda screws up the pass thing but w/e. but then once the opp catches onto eggy they can just hp bug or hp flying predicting the switch when i've got lix out or something and then it's mind games, just like it was before, so i'll probably stick with espy. marowak weakness is kinda unaviodable for this type of team but i'm confident i can beat it if i play well enough.
  5. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Funny that you manage to keep dunking Thiago with HP Bug Machamp because one of his favorite plays is to HP Bug with Marowak to nail Eggy himself.

    Morning sun is best on Espy, no doubt. The longevity is too nice to give up.

    Cloyster + Machamp synergy is pretty cool. Just know that, even with Icy Wind, Cloy isn't keeping Spikes on Starmie without help from a Spinblocker or Pursuit user. Starmie can just spam Rapid Spin, and since Rapid Spin has twice the PP of Spikes, there's nothing you can really do with Cloy to get Spikes past it. Generally, on a team like this, you just accept the lack of Spikes and just revel in the lack of Starmie to deal with. Another thing of note is that Cloyster can also get Raikous out of the way for you, and thanks to Icy Wind you don't even necessarily have to catch it on the switch.

    I don't really like Drumlax on this team. It's hard enough to get to work on a stall team with spin and Heal Bell support. On a team like this where Lax needs to perform defensively, it's never really going to get Drum off. In fact, I'd be willing to bet Snorlax spends most of its time asleep on this team since you have no really reliable way to set up. Curse is easy to use and forces people to play it passively to let it get Lefties recovery. However, given your desire to get Espeon to work, I might also try to use Snorlax to nail Roar Tyranitar with either LK or even Toxic. As it stands, EQ deters Ttar switch-ins. And Gengar isn't a big problem for this team at all, like RF said it's a great matchup for Espeon. Misdreavus might be a pain if you decide to run monolax, although Steelix should keep you reasonably safe.

    Rock Slide on Steelix is all right, honestly Steelix isn't very good at choosing specifically what it gets to Explode on, but having Explosion does give it an avenue for general utility as opposed to Rock Slide gearing it for the endgame sweep. What I mean by this is the following: Steelix can easily sweep the very common endgame combos of Snorlax + Raikou + Skarmory and Snorlax + Zapdos if it has Rock Slide. However, Snorlax can easily pack Fire Blast, and less commonly, the Electrics can always have a SE HP Water to nail you with. In this case, your RS Steelix fails to shine. Explosion at least allows you to save face in this situation and get at least 1 kill out of Steelix. In addition, while Steelix generally doesn't die easily, with your inability to Spin away Spikes, it can be worn down to the point where defending against even HP Ice Zapdos is a struggle. Explosion can at least take it out in this case, whereas RS only really forces Zapdos out if you have the time to boost (it fails to 3HKO unless Steelix is at +1). Really, it's all about what you want Steelix to do. If you can't see yourself ever sacrificing what it does for you defensively, might as well RS so Fliers don't totally cockblock you. However, if you find Steelix eroding more easily than you'd like and you would appreciate the ability to take something down with it, Explosion is excellent.

    I honestly don't think the Marowak weakness is all that big a deal. I mean you're weaker than most given your 2 slower mons and only 1 solid switch-in, but Marowak is hard as hell to get in, and all it takes is one solid predict on your part to make it useless. Marowak can't afford to take ANY hits on the switch. Vap is much scarier imo.

    EDIT: Good god I wrote too much. That huge paragraph on Steelix's fourth in particular is just excessive.
  6. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    yeah you did write too much but i appreciate every word of it. i'm gonna test out boom on steelix because of the fkn huge paragraph jorgen wrote, but i'm definitely changing snorlax to a curse variant right now and dropping belly drum. i might give lk/toxic a try but i've always hated lovely kiss and toxic seems kinda underwhelming in gsc (this is coming from a mainly bw player though). also god i hate vap but thankfully it's not that common and zapdos sticks around for a long time to deal with it. plus i can boom with clam if things look grim
  7. Borat

    Borat

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    Growthpass espeon has huge unrealized potential, but I've never gotten it to really work at the highest level because espeon just offers almost NOTHING defensively (granted, it's a good stop to gengar). And it simply needs to avoid getting statused.

    If anything, shoot for vap over machamp for stuff. But I like machamp in that slot anyway because of cloyster. Just abuse baton pass for free switches to it if facing ttar.

    Use LK snorlax.

    Not a fan of RS steelix, but it could work. If anything, I'd try body slam.

    But yeah, like jorgen said, the marowak problem really isn't bad at all. Marowak has always been a pokemon you play around instead of specifically countering.
  8. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    hey borat. surprisingly, espeon offers me more defensive prowess than it might seem at first glance. i can wall stuff like tbolt zapdos, starmie, and gengar all day, while setting up growths to pass, plus espy works as a pretty great pivot for me too. switch in on something that i don't care about, growth on the switch, pass or attack. works like a charm. not gonna argue espy's defense sucks but its sdef allows me at least some capability to stall with it.

    as far as vaporeon goes, i actually used to have it on the team over machamp, but i found it was slightly too frail for my liking and compounded the cloyster issues i was having. i also dislike mono-attacking anything - too easy to wall/phaze. like you said, i can abuse espeon's passing ability for free switches to machamp and get cross chops off on the opponent's team, which is nice because a lot of teams don't have a solid answer to champ.

    can you provide a little more explanation on the lk lax thing? i've never really liked it myself but i could see how it would fit on the team. however, the gengar semi-weakness is troubling.

    rock slide steelix has actually been pretty great for me because it knocks unwary zapdos for a good chunk and provides as last poke sweeper in desperate situations. boom sucks as i already explained, but i could try out body slam and see how it fits. it still hits zapdos and stuff but then i feel that in a last poke situation with skarm on the other end that now i'm screwed.

    marowak continues to be a minor issue, and most teams with marowak aren't prepared for espyjump anyways so i don't care much about it. also i'm good at predicting when it's coming in so i can switch to clam and scare it out easily.

    thanks for the rate
  9. jaQ

    jaQ

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    Interesting team. I don't have much experience with growth passing so I can't offer any advice there, but I can maybe help with threat coverage.

    Like others have pointed out, marowak can be dangerous. I won't get into that anymore, but someone else that could have a field day with your team is charizard. Since the core of your team appears to be lax, lix, zap, espeon, I feel you could drop cloy or machamp for something with a more defensive upside if you find yourself in tight spots too often.

    I don't know how much you love spikes, but considering that this team is either going to sweep fast or get swept fast, it can be left out. if you dumped cloy for starmie you would lose spikes as well as boom, which can get rid of raikou/starmie in a pinch -- opening up your machamp/zapdos. On the upside of this, you gain charizard cover and Marowak will have a tougher time getting through you. You will gain spikes coverage if you choose rapid spin, or reflect which can help espeon set up. I guess light screen is worth a mention since you mentioned having special defense issues. Also, t wave can slow raikou down, but it'd take a miracle for zap to get through him with 1 growth so meh I'd go reflect and rapid spin. The more I think about it the more I realize how important it is to keep cloy to try to boom raikou.

    Fortunately, machamp is replaceable and I would seriously recommend dropping him for starmie. Starmie even handles tyranitar quite well as long as you don't switch it into a crunch. Since this team is high risk you'll have to have good prediction anyway. Its pretty rare to see a tyranitar with crunch and another special move, so lix + starmie should work well.

    Edit: where do you battle? its been yrs since I had a good gsc match and nb is pretty dead, can only get the odd challenge cup.
  10. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Starmie doesn't fit on this team at all, and dropping Cloy for Starmie will make problems with Marowak even worse.

    "Pokemon Online", dude. Google it.
  11. jaQ

    jaQ

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    was too lazy to backspace everything, but I meant keep cloy - dump machamp.

    How can starmie 'not fit' on this team? It's the type of pokemon that fits pretty much anywhere. You really think machamp is a better fit? please elaborate.

    P.S. thanks I'll look that up now.
  12. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Starmie's main reason for existing is Rapid Spin support. As an attacker, it's better at forcing certain Pokemon to switch out than it is at actually breaking walls, and it's also prime Snorlax bait. Thus, it tends to slow down an offensive team like this more than it can really help it.
  13. Mr.E

    Mr.E im the best
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    I dunno how appealing the BP Growth angle is on Espeon. I guess most of the time it would be met with Roar rather than Crunch/Pursuit anyway but T-Tar's the biggest threat that Espeon flat-out cannot attempt to power through with a buff Psychic and your only options for passing a meaningful boost are... two pokemon weak to Rock Slide. If Snorlax comes in you're probably better off not blowing a turn passing the boost. I guess there's Eggy, Forretress, shitty Umbreon... not like there's much else for Espeon to carry anyway. *shrug* Hidden Power, woopee.

    Boring ol' standard Curselax isn't really needed here, you're not reliant on it as a special wall. Steelix holds up pretty well and Espeon is bulky enough to shrug off hits with Morning Sun and threaten boosting to dangerous levels. Maybe it's still the right option for your Snorlax but there are others out there. I'd suggest making room for Lovely Kiss since this team otherwise lacks a sleep move, probably over EQ because Gengar's such a non-threat to this team anyway but it's your call. It does get T-Tar still, I suppose, so there's still some merit to it. Selfdestruct is usable too in various capacities.

    Speaking of Steelix, while it has reasonable longevity it does ultimately lose to Zapdos. Rock Slide is a probable 3HKO even at +1, if Zapdos comes into a Curse, otherwise Zapdos wins a straight-up duel. And RS only "beats" Skarmory insofar as the opponent has nothing left to threaten Steelix out offensively, like a Water-type. If you hate Explosion that much, there's still Body Slam. Maybe you can get cutesy with Swagger but I don't think that works with Curse/Roar since it leaves you unable to hit Zapdos after confusing it. I guess it potentially prevents a Rest while switching to something else, or not taking a hit at any rate.

    Toxic is trash, don't use that! ... Posting here is as good as battling, right? :justin2:
  14. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
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    Icy wind Cloy doesnt seem to fit very well there. Clamp, Toxic, IB or even HP electric seem better options (Icy windy is useful when you have a pursuiter like t-tar or houndoom)

    About lax, there are better options in your teams than curselax with eq. I would recommend you a Curse + Body Slam/Return + Fire Blast + LK/rest, or a 3 attacks + SD. You already have espeon and steelix for gengar.
  15. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Idk, even if you have answers to Gengar and Misdreavus, it's still really nice to be able to hit them with Snorlax. I honestly never feel truly comfortable running a mono-lax unless I'm using a PursuitTar. The lack of a sleeper otherwise makes LK pretty attractive, though, and putting one of Skarm/Steelix/Ttar to sleep makes life much much easier for Espy.

    Also MrE, Espy can always dry pass to Champ to mess with Ttar. The ability of Cloy to bait and boom on Starmie means that Champ is pretty much always able to cause huge problems for a team after it gets in on Ttar. In this case, while I'm not personally a huge fan of it on CurseChamp, Fire Blast over Hidden Power maintains Egg coverage while helping it get past Skarms easier, and Skarms are more than likely to be on a team with Starmie. Not being able to OHKO Egg at +1 and being unable to beat non-Psychic Starmie switch-ins are kind of a drag, though.

    I believe Icy Wind works on this team, although I agree, it's not necessarily helping keep Spikes without a Pursuit user. It makes sure that Starmie too slow to set up Reflect before Cloy goes bomb, and might even put Starmie in a catch-22 if it decides to attack Cloy instead of spamming Rapid Spin. Icy Wind is also nice for Rapid Spin Cloyster switch-ins, as it makes the opposing Cloyster slower so you don't have to worry about Speed ties when trying to prevent the spin with boom. Being able to slow down Electrics for your booms so you don't have to be a baller and predict their switch-ins is nice, too.

    HOWEVER, it's also worth noting that if Cloyster can catch Starmie with Toxic, Machamp actually 2HKOs Starmie with unboosted Hidden Power (it does 42-49% to Starmie, which after being amplified by Poison damage becomes 54-61%, which supercedes the 53% 2HKO threshold). If Machamp catches poisoned Starmie with HP Bug on the switch, it can tank a single Psychic to KO Starmie at that point, or Starmie can try to Recover stall, which Machamp ultimately beats with a single crit. This way, you might be able to beat Starmie and keep your Spikes, too.
  16. Borat

    Borat

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    I don't see this snorlax sweeping often, so I think that's a semi-irrelevant point. Granted, curselax is curselax and is forever threatening against everything. Sleep is too good to pass up.
  17. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    okay read everything, tested everything, and came up with what i expect will be the final (or near final) version of this team.

    i dropped icy wind on cloyster in favor of toxic. while icy wind is nice and eases prediction on electrics and starmie, i've found that it also makes prediction a lot easier on my opponents. if they switch raikou into an icy wind, there's basically no way i can explode on it because they will be expecting boom 100% of the time after icy wind hits. i can sometimes manage to spike as they switch out but having the balls to pull the trigger is something i often lack, especially against people like jorgen who get inside my head real easy...toxic on the other hand is invaluable, if i can get starmie or the opposing cloyster poisoned i'm at a huge advantage and like jorgen said i can 2hko starmie with machamp which is a massive deal for this team.

    i also switched earthquake out in favor of lovely kiss on snorlax. as borat's been saying this whole time (and as i have been steadily ignoring), sleep in gsc is invaluable, especially when it's sleep on my opponent's main curselax check. and i never really found myself using earthquake, except on ttar (which i handle reasonably well) and gengar (espy shuts it down 100%). thought about return over body slam again, but ended up deciding that the para chance outweighs the value of extra power most of the time.

    finally, i swapped rock slide on steelix out in favor of body slam. i'm still not a fan of explosion on steelix, since in my opinion it's made to be a long-lasting wall and such walls shouldn't hamper their walling capabilities by taking boom over some other move. i also started to realize that rock slide was doing less and less every game, and in some games it would serve 0 purpose at all. since it was mainly just so i could hit zapdos, body slam felt like a natural alternative, and again, spreading paralysis is awesome. i've found that the team is now becoming less offense and more focused on spreading paralysis and keeping spikes up to annoy the opponent into making mistakes, upon which i capitalize by setting up lax/espy/champ and going for a sweep. it's turned out to be more effective than i could have imagined. not bad for my first gsc team.

    thanks to everyone who posted for all your help. special thanks to jorgen, who gave me the most input; mr.e, who was scared to fight me so he posted instead; and borat, who doesn't respond to vms but didn't have to be asked to help me out here. if anyone else has suggestions, feel free
  18. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    I'd go Double-Edge on Lax instead of Body Slam. The power differential is really noticeable. DE lets you KO Skarm that get hit with a long sleep from LK, it prevents opposing Curselax from switching into you as you Curse, and it 3HKOes Vaporeon and Zapdos without needing a Curse boost. Technically Return gets you enough power to do all this, too, but DE's extra damage guarantees certain KO thresholds (for example; +2 Return has a chance at 4HKOing Skarm, whereas DE guarantees it). You have Steelix with Bslam to para Skarms if you can't catch them with LK, anyway.
  19. Crystal_

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    seconding what Jorgen said on Double-Edge. Unless Snorlax paralyzing its checks plays a very important part of your strategy I've always found D-E to be the superior choice on pretty much any non-drum snorlax
  20. Lavos Spawn

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    bump

    beat hill in my powc game just now with this team, also won the other two games i used this awesome team with. i am thinking keep body slam, since in that game if i would have had to suffer continual recoil of my snorlax i don't think i could have beaten his raikou which was constantly pressuring lax with big thunder hits. also i am considering running earthquake on machamp over rock slide, i know this leaves me open to zapdos but i feel like it is very nice to be able to beat the one-two combo of psychic starmie and raikou all with one curse on the starmie switch in (assuming star is at low enough health ofc). i dunno what do you guys think? i am hoping to make this one of my standby teams since it is working so well for me and matches my play style.
  21. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    You can keep bslam on lax, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't REALLY matter. Bslam makes it more of a team player, DE helps it get kills it otherwise wouldn't, it's your call really. Frustration is also a recoil-free option if you want better damage to 3HKO Vap/Zapdos/Raikou without a Curse and to actually punish opposing DE Curselaxen, although para in most of those situations is usually better than, if not just as good as, straight damage.

    As for Machamp, I'd strongly recommend keeping slide on it. I know Raikou can be annoying if you have to toss out weaker, 80% accurate CCs at it, but not being able to even touch Zapdos when it shows up is even worse.
  22. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    yeah that's my problem, either way i hate the situation i'm in but i know i need to keep machamp since it's such a team player and strong as hell. probably keeping slide since not touching zap would be huge, since i don't have sleep talk lax i think i need that sort of coverage vs it. but eq is sooooo nice for raikou...oh well gotta make some sacrifices.
  23. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    A lack of EQ is inconvenient. A lack of RS means you're cockblocked. Either way it doesn't hurt to para Kou with a Zapdos Thunder or something before siccing Champ on it, that should make it easier to cope with a lack of EQ.
  24. Mr.E

    Mr.E im the best
    is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Winner

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    I always considered Earthquake on Machamp for Gengar and Nidoking. Rock Slide is weak and inaccurate against Gengar, same with Fire Blast, and well Nidoking laughs at everything else. The fact it hits Raikou without relying on 80% accuracy is a bonus, it still doesn't do quite enough to Starmie even at +1 though and obviously the whole Zapdos thing is a big problem.
  25. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    mr.e still determined not to battle, haha

    i weighed the pros and cons of what you said and i really think rock slide's still the right choice. i mean you're right that eq is way more useful when stuff like gengar and nidoking are around, and it does help a bit vs raikou (not sure where you were going with the starmie thing since hp bug hits harder than eq...) but the lack of coverage against as bit of a threat to my team as zapdos is really troubling. frankly my team handles gengar and nidoking quite nicely, with espeon being basically a hard wall to the former and the latter being allowed to sleep my zapdos (sleep talk) and then get set up on by curselax, so neither of those have ever been an issue. and raikou is raikou, it's annoying and hard to get rid of but not particularly "threatening" per se to my team. zapdos, on the other hand, particularly thunder zapdos, is a huge threat and i'm really thinking that the coverage against it, a big problem for my team, outweighs the coverage against several pokemon that pose little or no threat to me. thus, i'll be sticking with rock slide until further notice.

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