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RMT: Entering Competitive

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Ascend, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Ascend

    Ascend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    11
    Hey there. I've just picked up competitive Pokémon, and I'm still a fledgling looking to improve with the help of the Smogon community. I'm aware this team isn't great, so I'm posting here for suggestions and what I should change on my team. Thanks.

    So, this team is a Baton Pass-oriented team centered around a Haxorus sweep. Without further ado... My first team.

    [​IMG]
    Ninjask (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 248 HP / 36 Spe / 224 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def / -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Swords Dance
    - X-scissor

    The Baton Passer of my team, used to help set-up Haxorus for himself. I equipped Ninjask with a Focus Sash to get a first-move Swords Dance off to Baton Pass quickly if it comes to that. I have X-Scissor in case their lead uses Taunt and extra coverage against Psychics.

    [​IMG]
    Haxorus (M) @ Haban Berry
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature (+Atk / -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Brick Break
    - Dragon Claw

    The core of this team that I'm building around. I'm using a Haban Berry for extra defense against Ice Shard and Scarfed Dragons, but I don't feel I need the speed from Choice Scarf because of Ninjask's Baton Passed Speed Boost ability. I also don't use Choice Band because I don't like being locked in to one move. Dragon Dance is there in case something happens to Ninjask or I'm forced to switch out for any reason and I need to set up once more. EQ and Brick Break for extra coverage against Skarmory/other Steel types. The choice between Rivalry and Mold Breaker is still a toss-up for me, as I like the extra damage to males as many people I know don't switch from the default male, but Mold Breaker would prove helpful against someone like Gengar.

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory (F) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 32 SpD
    Impish Nature (+Def / -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird

    The defensive wall on my team, present and ready to switch in the event that they bring in a powerful fighting-type or physical sweeper or to throw in some Spikes around the opening. I'm using a straightforward set on Skarmory, with Whirlwind to knock off any Dragon Danced Dragonites or other setup sweepers, along with Brave Bird to check Fighting types like Mienshao.

    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe / -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Psyshock
    - Recover
    - Dragon Pulse

    I'm not actually sure why she's on my team at the moment, but at the moment she is being used as a special wall, with Leftovers and Recover to ensure she doesn't get KOed easily. Psyshock and Dragon Pulse for STAB and Calm Mind to raise Sp.Def and make her STABs much more powerful to turn into a pseudo-sweeper if necessary.

    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon (F) @ Expert Band
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
    Mild Nature (+SpAtk / -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Superpower
    - Dark Pulse

    The wallbreaker and disruptor of my team, primarily used to check other Dragons, Ghosts and Psychics that may be a problem to Haxorus. Also useful in breaking down any defensive walls brought in to counter Haxorus, bypassing them with its STAB Draco Meteor, with Fire Blast to cover Skarmory and Ferrothorn, and Superpower to make sure Tyranitars don't switch in on it.

    [​IMG]
    Alakazam (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe / -Atk)
    - Psyshock
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power (Ice)

    The special sweeper on my team in case Haxorus gets KOed or their team has another Psychic sweeper and Hydreigon isn't present to check them. Running Life Orb for substantial damage with no drawback thanks to its Magic Guard. Shadow Ball is to check Psychic-type sweepers and other threatening Ghost-types like Gengar. Focus Blast is for coverage against Steel-types, while Hidden Power Ice is useful against Flying-types and powerful Dragons that have set up like Hydreigon or Dragonite.

    -

    Well guys, that was my first ever competitive team. That was a lot to type, especially from my phone. Anyway, please give me suggestions on how to improve my team: who I should take out, what I should change, etc. Any and all constructive feedback is appreciated.

    Thanks!
  2. EmeraldEnchanter

    EmeraldEnchanter

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    34
    I am new to Smogon though I have been battling for a while. If you don't want my advice I understand completely. That being said I think I can help. So take this advice if you want I think it could help.

    I really like your team. It's seems very solid for a first team (a lot more solid than my first team). However I think there are several flaw's and ways that your team could do a lot better. So anyways my rate.
    The first thing I notice is Ninjask. While he is a great baton passer why don't you try a Smeargle? Smeargle has Spore which allows for easier set-up while having access to a great boosting move in Shell Smash. Shell Smash also allows a special attacker such as your hydreigon to take the pass if you feel it would do better. If you don't like the defense drop then you can always use Dragon Dance or Agility. Smeargle also can set-up Stealth Rocks which your team does not have a user of. The other pokemon that seems out of place is your Latias. Since you already have two other dragons as well as a flying type and a defensively weak mon you have a large weakness to a LO Mamoswine. To cover this why not try a Jirachi? They can cover specially, have a great defensive typing, can abuse Serene Grace and pass wishes to heal off damage to any other members.
    A few other things. Haxorus defininitely wants Mold Breaker and should hold a LO. Hydreigon should be scarfed as every good team has a scarfer and you need a good back up if Haxorus dies. Also you claim Hydreigon has a mild nature yet the stat's you show imply modest. Either way you want modest. Skarmory should be holding Leftovers.

    So yeah a list of changes using the following organiation:

    Pokemon @ Item | Ability
    Nature | x / y / z
    - Move 1
    - Move 2
    - Move 3
    - Move 4

    Smeargle @ Focus Sash | Own Tempo
    Jolly | 80 Hp 96 def 80 SpD 252 Spe
    - Spore
    - Shell Smash/Dragon Dance/Agility
    - Stealth Rocks
    - Baton Pass

    Jirachi @ Leftovers | Serene Grace
    Careful | 252 Hp 4 Atk 252 SpD
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam

    Haxorus: Haban Berry --------> Life Orb

    Hydreigon: Expert Belt --------> Choice Scarf
    Mild -------> Modest

    Skamory: Shed Shell --------> Leftovers

    Sorry for making so many changes they are all optional.
  3. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    879
    I do not want to change the entire team so Ill change whats here already(mostly). Let me first give my pokemon switch suggestion. I see that you built this team around Haxorus but your team is already Ice weak. I actually recommend switching Haxorus to Lucario. This is because Lucario has tons of resistances and it helps deal with the Ice weakness. This would be an all out attacking set since you would get boosts from Ninjask. Next your team could really use a scarfer and Hydreigon is a great one. It is fast and can switch out in needed with U-Turn. Hope this helped! I also forgot to mention that I second the switch to Leftovers on Skarmory.

    Lucario@Life Orb
    Adamant Nature
    -Close Combat
    -Extremespeed
    -Bullet Punch
    -Crunch

    Hydreigon@Choice Scarf
    Timid Nature
    -U-Turn
    -Fire Blast
    -Dark Pulse
    -Draco Meteor
  4. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I'll be your light, your match, your burning sun
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,969
    Hi there,

    Welcome to Smogon! Here's some advice for your team:

    Ninjask is definitely dead weight. It only helps Haxorus, and it just barely does so, because Ninjask is fairly easy to penetrate if you have priority. It definitely isn't worth the slot of you're only using it to possibly aid one pokemon that can otherwise set up pretty easily on its own. It is of my opinion that you should change ninjask into something that can handle Ice types with more security, as pokemon like Low Kick Weavile or Mamoswine can really dent your team. I think having a Fighting type would be useful too; especially one that can set up on / shut down defensive walls like Hippowdon that you can't currently handle. I think Swords Dance Breloom is a great pokemon to consider over Ninjask.

    [​IMG]
    Breloom @ Leftovers
    Jolly / 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Mach Punch / Spore / Swords Dance / Bullet Seed


    It might not seem as if Breloom can handle Ice types very well because of its Grass typing, but it actually works very well to check pokemon like Kyu-B, Mamoswine, and Weavile (it can take an Ice Shard from Jolly Mamo or outspeed and KO Adamant Mamo, and if worst comes to worst you can just use Skarmory). Its Grass coverage will be extremely useful when you're tying to break down the common wall- especially bulky water types and ground types. Its Spore can also be extremely useful- shutting down an opponent and then setting up and killing something. It also shuts down some more problematic walls like Skarmory or Chansey, who require multiple hits to kill. It has priority Mach Punch too, which can be used to pull off sweeps or even revenge kill weakened opponents. Loom will be a great poke because of its coverage, Spore, and priority.

    With Loom, however, some problems do arise. Sun becomes an immediate bitch, (not that it wasn't beforehand though) and pokemon like Volcarona or Lati@s become massive problems. I think replacing Latias with Chansey would be a great idea.

    [​IMG]
    Chansey @ Eviolite
    Bold / 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpDef
    Seismic Toss / Softboiled / Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave


    This is another pretty big change, but here is my rationale. First of all, Latias didn't seem to be doing much but add another Bug / Ice / Dragon weakness, and its offensive prowess was compounded over Alakazam and Hydreigon. Second of all, Chansey would form the perfect defensive backbone for your generally frail team. It can easily absorb any specially based attack and heal off the damage or cripple with Thunder Wave. It can also do the same for some physical attacks too. With Chansey on your team, any weaknesses to Lati@s, Sun sweepers, Rain sweepers, and Volcarona will pretty much be eliminated. Chansey's Natural Cure can be very useful, letting it act as your status sponge. Chansey also sets Stealth Rock, which is really needed on this team to add some extra damage against Bug / Fire / Flying types that annoy Breloom. Seismic Toss lets you damage opponents so they can't set up on you, always dealing a solid 100 HP of damage. Thunder Wave lets you cripple Volcarona, Venasaur, and Lati@s / Alakazam. Softboiled lets you recover yourself to continue walling, and SR is to cause some extra residual damage.

    Now for some touch ups. I'd use 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly with Life Orb and Mold Breaker on Haxorus. Max speed is needed to outspeed as many threats as possible, and Life Orb lets you boost the power of your attacks. Mold Breaker is a lot better than Rivalry because Rivalry decreases your power against female opponents- which is not good, since the gender of opponents is decided at random and you don't want to take such a risk. Mold Breaker also lets you hit Lati@s, Bronzong, Rotom-W, and Gengar- which makes it a much preferred ability to have.

    On Hydreigon, I'd use a spread of 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Naive with an Expert Belt. Max Speed lets you outspeed as many threats as possible ofc, and max SpA boosts the power of your Special attacks. The remaining 4 evs should be out into Atk with Naive so that your Superpowers can hit decently hard as well. Expert Belt boosts your moves when they are supper effective (more o ten than not). It also lets you feign choice.

    You should also consider Focus Sash on Alakazam even though Life Orb is a great item too. A sash always lets Alakazam hit twice- which will be very useful as a panic button when handling out of control threats. However, Life Orb is a great item too so I'll leave it up to you.

    Good luck! I hope I helped!
  5. Subject 18

    Subject 18 Forever Childish.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,010
    Welcome to Smogon, Ascend. Good work building a solid team thus far however, you have a major Ice weakness which results in Mamoswine being the top threat to you since it can spam Ice Shards and severely hurt your team. Also I'm not seeing Stealth Rocks which are better than Spikes since Rocks hit everything. Without Rocks Dragonite can freely come in and out and have Multiscale intact. So let's start with the rate.


    First, I would like to suggest trying out Lucario over you current Hydreigon. This is for two reason. First you lack a priority move in which Lucario has in the form of Extreme Speed or Bullet Punch. Secondly this alleviates some of your Ice and Mamoswine weakness. Lucario can also come in, take and Ice and threaten Mamoswine out with a Close Combat. Running Jolly over Adamant is more beneficial since you are able to outspeed Jolly Mamoswine. This also give you the luxury of being able to get up a couple Speed Boosts and Baton Pass to Lucario, get up and SD and sweep.

    Lucario Set
    Show Hide

    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Nature: Jolly
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Extreme Speed
    - Ice Punch


    Lastly a couple minor changes,
    ~ First, Focus Sash is Alakazam is much more beneficial and helpful since you can take a hit and continue to try and sweep. The damage output also isnt that significant so dont fret on that but if you feel like you need the extra power go for it.
    ~ Next, on Skarmory use Stealth Rocks over Spikes since Stealth Rocks will hit everything instead of just grounded pokemon.
    ~ Lastly, I would suggest Leftovers over Focus Sash on Ninjask. Leftovers will give you a little more longevity and give you a couple extra Substitutes.

    Edit: Forgot, use Life Orb over Haban Berry on Haxorus.

    Hope this helped and good luck.

    ~BlackRussian
  6. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    167
    Hey there! Welcome to Smogon~

    Since you're relatively new, I'll try to go pretty in-depth with my explanations. First off, like Electrolyte said, Ninjask really is pretty much useless. Ninjask should only be used on full Baton Pass teams since its teammates are designed to take attacks aimed at it and provide a stronger foundation of defenses. On a team like this with several frail attackers, priority and incoming attacks will not be fun to take. In OU, to build around a certain Pokemon (Haxorus, in your case), it's a good idea to pick some great support Pokemon that work offensively and defensively with your choice. I know you like the Ninjask-Haxorus combination, but it won't work that well in higher level play. Tyranitar, for example, just has to throw out a Rock Slide or Stone Edge and you die to sand after that. Priority, weather, phasing, and super powerful attacks from OU really make Ninjask not worth a slot on a team.

    So, consider this proposal. Replace Ninjask with Magnezone. Magnezone's Magnet Pull traps Steel types and takes them out pretty easily with HP Fire or Thunderbolt, depending on the opposition. You already have 3 Dragon type Pokemon, and since the only type that resists Dragon is Steel, taking them out with Magnezone is a great support option. It also resists both Dragon and Ice itself, which provides great resistances for your 3 Dragon types. I'd personally recommend the Choice Specs set since it grants you a hard hitting special attacker that doesn't worry about other Steels. It also does enough damage to Scizor with Volt Switch to the point where you can just Volt Switch out (and KO it) while not locking yourself into HP Fire. Since you don't really have a way to grab or maintain momentum on this team, powerful Volt Switches will definitely aid you quite a bit. Here's what it should look like:
    Magnezone (open)
    [​IMG] @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 SAtk / 220 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Volt Switch
    - Flash Cannon
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    This EV spread in particular puts you at 210 Speed, which is 2 points faster than Defensive Rotom-W (208). SD Scizor often has 209 Speed to outspeed Rotom-W, so this is a good benchmark to outspeed most Scizor (and Specially Defensive Heatran).

    Next up, I'd like to recommend a chance in Haxorus' set. Haban Berry actually only reduces Dragon-type attacks--not Ice (like you said in the description). You should definitely try out a Life Orb over Haban Berry and then replace Brick Break with Superpower. Haxorus will definitely enjoy the extra power behind its moves. Then, to make Haxorus really shine, replace Dragon Claw with Outrage. The damage difference is just so noticeable and Haxorus' power alone separates him from the other Dragons like Salamence and Dragonite, so abuse it. You have other partners to help Haxorus now, so locking yourself into Outrage isn't a bad thing to do. And lastly, change those wasted EVs into a spread of 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd. This puts you at a pretty comfortable benchmark where you can outspeed everything relevant unboosted (Heatran, most Kyurem-B, most Landorus-T), at +1 (Jolteon and below), and +2 (Timid Venusaur in Sun, Jolly Stoutland in Sand). Here's what it should look like:
    Haxorus (open)
    [​IMG] (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Superpower
    - Earthquake

    Next up, since I suggested the removal of Ninjask, you're missing out on some speed. Since Haxorus is your only physical attacker, you may have quite a bit of trouble with opposing Chansey or other special walls. Alakazam seems like it was just thrown on randomly (I suppose it could work with Ninjask though), so I'd like to suggest using Scarf Salamence over it. Currently, you have a ton of trouble with opposing Volcarona, so a revenge killer, late game sweeper, and 2nd physical Dragon will help greatly. Speaking of Volcarona, you don't have Stealth Rock anywhere on your team, so replace Spikes on Skarmory for it. Without a spinblocker, you'll end up wasting your time setting up Spikes when SR is instantaneous and deals more damage quicker (which is more important for a Drag-Mag team). Anyway, back to Salamence. With Moxie, Salamence can push through your opponent's team late game after you weaken their walls and resists with Haxorus/Latias/Hydreigon. Here's the set:
    Salamence (open)
    [​IMG] (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Blast / Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    The choice between Fire Blast and Stone Edge is yours. Since you have a Magnezone to beat Steel types, Fire Blast is generally an inferior option than just switching to Magnezone on the predicted Steel type. Stone Edge, on the other hand, lets you OHKO Volcarona and other flying types without locking yourself into Outrage. If you do go with Stone Edge, though, change the nature to Jolly.

    And that's all I got! Good luck! I hope I was a least bit helpful.
  7. Ascend

    Ascend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    11
    Wow, thank you for all of the very in-depth responses to my thread. It's much appreciated. Anyway, after taking in all of the suggestions, I've come out with this team:

    [​IMG]
    Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature (+Atk / -SpAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch

    // May be replaced with Swords Dance Breloom as Electrolyte suggested. Thoughts?

    [​IMG]
    Haxorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Superpower
    - Earthquake

    // I realized I have two Life Orbs on my team; one on Lucario and one on Haxorus. If I were to keep both Pokemon, which one would drop the Life Orb and what would it be replaced with?

    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpAtk / -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - U-turn
    - Fire Blast
    - Dark Pulse

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Atk
    Careful Nature (+SpDef / -SpAtk)
    - Wish
    - Iron Head
    - Protect
    - Body Slam

    // Also debating between Jirachi or keeping Latias in as a Special Wall that doubles as a pseudo-sweeper. Thoughts?

    [​IMG]
    Alakazam (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Timid Nature (+Spe / -Atk)
    - Focus Blast
    - Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power (Ice)

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 224 HP / 32 Spe / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def / -SpAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird

    // Again, the same problem I had with Lucario and Haxorus: both Skarmory and Jirachi are holding Leftovers. Which should keep it, and what should the other get?

    Thank you again for the warm welcomes and helping me out!

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