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Gen 3 RMT OU

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Cowboy Dan, May 2, 2014.

  1. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2014
    Messages:
    83
    Hello all, for those of you who don't know me, I'm a fairly new, but not completely incompetent ADV OU Player, I've been on PO for about a year now, and just recently joined showdown. Anyway, this is the team I am most proud of. It has brought me a lot of success. I have tweaked and tested it for a while now, so some fresh eyes would be nice. The team revolves around a forretress, gengar, pursuit tar core, and focuses on burning and picking off calm mind blissey's counters with gengar and dugtrio, so that it can sweep. It is fairly stallish so does most of it's damage with spikes, however it is still capable of providing offensive pressure in order to really take advantage of those spikes.

    At a Glance:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]

    Tyranitar
    [​IMG]

    Godzilla (Tyranitar) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 184 HP / 220 SAtk / 100 SDef / 4 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Roar
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Flamethrower

    The team leads with Tyranitar. Despite the fact that in the majority of lead match ups, ttar is not favored, i chose to lead with it for a couple reasons. Firstly it gets sand up right off the bat, which helps the team wear down the opposition a lot. Secondly, it allows me to potentially trap an opposing lead gengar, or dent opposing lead skarm, or forre on the first turn. Thirdly it helps against the majority of baton pass leads, and finally, i didn't really have a better lead. I hate leading forretress, just puts you on a back foot right off the bat and gives no way of scouting for magneton, leading gengar leaves me vulnerable to opposing pursuit pokes, milotic while decent as a lead just doesn't threaten anything other than the standard physical sweepers, and risks getting surprised turn 1 by a toxic, and of course i wasn't going to lead with blissey or dugtrio. The set is a pursuit variant and serves a few purposes. It gets rid of gengar the majority of the time which clears the way for forretress to spin, and helps prevent any explosion shenanigans against blissey, or any of the other tricks gengar can pull against a team. It also acts as a way to wear down swampert as well as spikers such as skarmory, forretress and cloyster who if given the chance to spike up can prove problematic, finally, it gets up sand which is important for this team as it helps wear down the opposition, and scores me some guaranteed KOs i wouldn't otherwise have. The move set is a little different. I chose flamethrower over fire blast for two reasons, first it prevents jirachi and celebi from pp stalling and avoiding my attacks while they set up calm minds, this allows me to kill them with dugtrio more easily. secondly, it prevents me from losing the surprise kill on forretress thanks to an unfortunate miss. The only place where the power loss really matters is against skarmory, who doesn't appreciate taking the flamethrowers anyway. Crunch really helps me take out opposing gengar, the majority of the time they stay in and just die, and if they do switch out, they won't stay in the next time for sure after seeing crunch, giving me the ability to pursuit them. Crunch also acts as a nice strong spammable STAB attack, and hits a lot harder than many expect. It does a nice chunk to swampert, which in conjunction with spikes wears it down quick. Roar is mainly for shadowball curselax, it can't really do much to ttar, and with roar, sand and spikes, i can usually wear it down to death before it has a chance to set up, or be last poke. Outside of this, tyranitar makes a pretty decent phazer due to the abundance of water types wanting to switch in on it, which get worn down by spikes. Finally it helps against opposing baton pass teams. The EVs allow me to survive jolly dugtrio earthquakes, as well as starmie's hydro pumps, allowing me to KO back with crunch (most of the time). 4 speed creeps against other tar, mix gross, and neutral natured pert. The rest is thrown into special attack to maximize damage output. In the event that it is put to sleep by hypnosis gar, I still have blissey as a decent answer to gengar, and with sleep clause activated, hypnosis gar has a more difficult time wearing blissey down with spikes.

    Gengar
    [​IMG]
    Poltergeist (Gengar) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 32 SAtk / 56 SDef / 80 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt

    The gengar set functions as this team's spin blocker and late game cleaner. For those who are not in touch with the ADV metagame, while it may seem counter intuitive, a bulky set is preferable on gengar if you are using it as a spin blocker. The ability to sponge a few attacks while attempting to block rapid spins is much more useful than the extra power. As gengar does not have special STAB it is not going to be breaking through its walls with sheer power, rather through its excellent support move pool and coverage, and a bulky set takes advantage of this to a greater degree, being able to stick around longer to get off a few more will-o-wisps. The things gengar hits hard such as salamence, gyarados and flygon among others are hit hard regardless of investment, meanwhile the things that wall gengar such as blissey and snorlax won't be taking much either way. The power loss is also offset by the spikes. The main difference between this set and the average bulky gar set is that it drops a fair bit of speed in favor of greater bulk. The EVs still allow it to outspeed neutral base 100s with a small speed creep which is more than enough for this set. the main things that outspeed it are things that either threaten it either way, such as offensive celebi, or already outspeed such as in the case of raikou and starmie. Everything this gengar really needs to outspeed is below 303 speed, with the exception of the rare jolly flygon and salamence, as well as some +1 dd tar which i have dugtrio for anyway. Note however that with this spread, this gengar does not match up well against opposing gengar. The defense evs allow it to survive +1 HP flying from mence in sand. They are also useful for taking other random attacks, for example when burned, snorlax's shadow ball does only around 35%. The special attack evs allow it to always kill 116HP mence in sandstream. It will always kill 4HP mence without the help of sand. Finally the rest is thrown in to special defense to allow it to take a stab psychic in sand from a special attack stat of 262 (claydol's max). This helps with taking random special attacks such as cloyster surfs, and makes it so even modest blissey's ice beam does a maximum of 34%. This means you don't usually have to be afraid of getting in a taunt to prevent a softboiled, as even if they do out predict you it's not a huge deal, as a side note though if they have a dragon dance salamence, it is often a good idea to keep gengar at full health, as gengar's ability to counter dd mence at full health can often be a huge asset if milotic is weak, especially considering how often people will stay in to HP fly against a full health gengar when they are at +1. The move set is designed to not only help my calm mind bliss, but also to really take advantage of spikes. Thunderbolt and Icepunch are obvious coverage moves, and taunt + will-o-wisp are extremely helpful. Will-o-wisp burns physical attackers that can stop my blissey's sweep, such as metagross, snorlax and tyranitar. this coupled with taunt helps wear down opposing blissey and snorlax, as they cannot recover their health with softboiled, Burning a curselax also forces it to rest, and with the addition of taunt and spikes it will usually rest the first chance it gets instead of cursing up, meaning i will have the opportunity come in on a predicted rest with dugtrio and 3hko. Not to mention that EQ lax and blissey lacking in offensive moves other than seismic toss are completely blanked by this gar set.


    Forretress
    [​IMG]
    UFO (Forretress) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Hidden Power [Bug]
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Explosion

    Forretress rounds out the core, providing the spikes and rapid spin that make it so deadly. It of course requires pursuit tar as it cannot spin past gengar. It also has good synergy with gengar, as the only spinners that gengar cannot block, starmie and claydol, are beat one on one by this particular forretress set. Hidden power bug is mainly for starmie, claydol and celebi. Rapid spin and spikes are the reason to use forretress, and are fairly self explanatory. finally explosion prevents forretress from being set up fodder, and can pull me out of a hole against something like snorlax or suicune. It also couples well with dugtrio, as if explosion fails to KO, i can always follow up with dugtrio to finish the job. The EVs allow me to always 2hko 252HP, 0Def starmie. HP is maximized with the rest thrown in to special defense so that forretress can take a few surfs from starmie, while simultaneously being able to set up spikes on bulky waters, regice and porygon2 more easily. Note that the IVs are as follows 31/31/31/31/30/14. This is the lowest speed 70 base power HP bug spread that still allows me to out speed snorlax. This gives me an edge against opposing forretress, while allowing me to explode before lax curses up or fire blasts.

    Dugtrio
    [​IMG]
    Mole Men (Dugtrio) (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 32 HP / 204 Atk / 20 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Hidden Power [Bug]
    - Aerial Ace

    Dugtrio really covers up a lot of holes in the team. It traps and kills magneton who gives forretress issues, opposing pursuit users such as tyranitar and houndoom who give gengar issues, celebi, metagross, breloom, heracross, blaziken, the list goes on. It can even come in on a predicted rest from snorlax or regice, and 3hko them while they sleep. It also gives more breathing room against a number of offensive threats including dragon dance tyranitar and raikou, among other offensive CM pokes such as jirachi and celebi. The set is fairly standard, max speed for opposing dugtrio, raikou, and +1 tyranitar, special defense and HP investment to always survive raikou hidden powers, with the rest in attack to maximize damage output. While the special defense evs may seem unnecessary when i have blissey, they are helpful as a crit thunderbolt at +6 in a calm mind war against raikou will lose me the game if i don't have dugtrio, also if raikou has any special defense investment, and I am unlucky with damage rolls, raikou can pp stall me because icebeam is not guaranteed to break its sub. Going in to a calm mind war is a risk i am not willing to take, so I would rather just have a guaranteed kill with dugtrio, whether it subs up/hidden powers on the switch or not. the evs also allow me to survive HP grass from enemy pursuit tar which is useful. The move set is self explanatory.

    Milotic
    [​IMG]

    Leviathan (Milotic) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Marvel Scale
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    After quite a bit of testing, pondering and debating, I have finally decided to replace swampert with milotic. There are 2 main disadvantages to milotic, the first is the lack of the rock resist. This leaves my team more vulnerable to ttar and aero, who can now spam rock slide pretty freely. ttar is somewhat manageable with dugtrio, but aero can be a nuisance at times. i can usually get a nice 50% chunk out of it with pursuit tar, but that ttar is often spread pretty thin, and aero doesn't exactly have a reason to use double edge or hp fly against my team. The other disadvantage is that it gives me one poke that can't hit starmie hard, giving it a chance to spin against milo. This is fairly minor though since everything else can. The advantages though i have finally decided, outweight these disadvantages. The first and most obvious advantage, is that it allows me not to be completely dead to a number of pokemon i was dead to before, these include, defensive roar cune, cm flamethrower hp grass blissey, random mixed attackers that use fire grass coverage. It also gives me a good switch in for opposing swampert. I've never had issues with it before, but i never really had a safe switch for it either. The other advantages are the greater difficulty of wearing it down due to recover, and the inability to surprise it. Milotic doesn't really fear anything, it's not like you can take 70% out of it with a surprise hp grass, and if you do hit it hard, it can always sneak in a recover later. The moveset is pretty standard, with toxic to help against cm blissey, force roar cune to rest, and just provide more passive damage. The EVs are to speed creep against opposing physical attackers that like to reside in the 200 speed range, like dd tar and metagross, with the rest maximizing physical defense.

    Blissey
    [​IMG]
    The Blob (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 248 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Soft-Boiled
    - Calm Mind

    Ironically, Blissey has kind of taken over as this team's primary win condition. Once I have burned physical attackers, and picked off a few threats with dugtrio, there isn't really much that can stop the pink blob from rolling through a team. Calm mind Blissey like many tanks is the kind of sweeper that although not immediately threatening, is capable of sticking around much longer than many of its counters can, and thanks to natural cure and softboiled, it is extremly resilient, even more so than curselax and cune. It just keeps coming back. This is useful because unlike dragon dance tyranitar for example, blissey doesn't have too much to worry about in the early game, and can still act as a good check to the pokemon it is meant to check. I can wall their special attackers all game, and still have more than enough left in the tank to sweep late game, which not many pokemon can pull off. Outside of sweeping, blissey is also my primary check to the majority of calm mind offense, as well as specially based defensive pokemon such as suicune, milotic, and zapdos. The move set is fairly standard for calm mind bliss, i opted for bolt beam as gyarados can be an issue for this team otherwise. 4HP gives me an even HP stat to maximize softboiled recovery. 4 Speed gives me an advantage against opposing bliss should i need to get off a softboiled at low health. Max defense allows me to always survive CB brick break from salamence, and the rest is thrown into special attack to maximize damage output. The modest nature allows blissey to hit a lot harder than people would think, and gives me a much better chance of KOing opposing dugtrio as well as breaking raikou subs should it come to that.

    Threats to keep in mind
    This team runs into issues with last poke curselax and roar cune. Blissey is my usual check to suicune, however with roar it can simply phaze me out as i try to match it's boosts. It also means that before I've scouted the cune set i have to be careful not to let it set up too much against my blissey. Shadow ball lax can be difficult especially as a last poke, roar on ttar helps a lot, although paralysis can be annoying, although it does prevent ttar from being put to sleep. While my team may lack good answers to these pokemon, they do find it difficult to set up, as spikes + sand is constantly wearing them down, and the only recovery they have is rest, so I can easily beat them as long as i don't give them the chance to set up or be last poke. Aerodactyl can be a problem, it can just spam rock slide and an untimely flinch can often be quite problematic. Another issue is a recent team archetype that uses multiple subsalac users to overwhelm opponents. Still, between dugtrio, and sand they are manageable, however I have to predict well or they will constantly wear down my walls, and blissey is a very easy switch for them. A few niche threats such as Hariyama and Ludicolo can be quite difficult. Finally, if blissey somehow goes down during the course of the match I am usually in a serious hole, as it really is the glue that holds the team together and i don't have any pokemon that can just win games on their own, except occasionally gengar, but usually it's kept in check pretty well by a good team. Any advice would be appreciated thank you.

    Importable:

    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  2. kill yourself

    kill yourself .|~Fashionista~|.
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    you definitely want protect on swampert over either roar or toxic, you could even run restalk. it definitely needs some sort of recovery though.

    offensive cm roar cunes arent too hard to beat if you get up spikes early since you can batter away at them with blisseys tbolts and they dont set up too easily, but the bulky ones just flat out 6-0. id try making dugtrio adamant to 3hko (you switch in as its forced to rest), and its not like you struggle against cm raikou anyway so the speed loss isnt a big deal.

    team is mostly standard other than that so it should do well.
    Jaiho likes this.
  3. dadoux

    dadoux

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    Mar 17, 2012
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    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  4. Isa

    Isa

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Messages:
    247
    252 SpA Raikou Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 48 SpD Dugtrio: 176-208 (83.4 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Raikou Hidden Power Grass vs. 32 HP / 16 SpD Dugtrio: 184-218 (84 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Same amount of EVs, but optimized to give you that tiny extra physical bulk.

    I also prefer to run just enough speed to beat 252+ Raikou,

    I don't know anything noteworthy about ADV and the speed might be eeh, but you could use that EV change.

    other than that looks solid. one day we'll play again
  5. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Duggy feels a little out of place on a stall like this imo. I mean yeah, it helps to keep Forry's nose clean vs Magnetons, but you could do that with EQ too. Yeah, you don't have room for both HP Bug and Explosion if you do that, but at the same time, Duggy is the most logical place to put a Celebi or Zapper to help defend against those defensive CM Roar Cunes.

    You might find Crunch on Ttar extra handy for actually punishing Gengars who stay in to Giga/WoW/whatever. Also might catch those annoying spinners, Claydol and Starmie, that might think Ttar is safe to stay in on. Also it still hits Pert pretty hard. Only thing you really need HP Grass for is other Ttars (and maybe catching Duggys), and even then, replacing Rock Slide probably makes a bit more sense, especially as you'll likely end up burned vs. Gengars a lot of the time anyway.
  6. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2014
    Messages:
    83
    Ok after a few days of testing, these are the changes I've decided to implement:

    1. I've taken BKC's suggestion of putting protect over toxic on swampert. This has been extremely helpful in avoiding explosions, and gaining health, while I do miss toxic for dealing with opposing swampert, the overall utility of protect has provided more benefits than detriments.
    2. I've decided to use Isa's Dugtrio EVs, i mean why not.
    3. I've put crunch over HP grass on tyranitar as jorgen suggested. I do miss being able to stay in on pert and dent it beyond recognition with HP grass, but Crunch does quite a bit on switches, which in conjunction with spikes wears pert down quick. I kept rock slide mainly just for regice and zapdos, seeing as ttar is really the only poke on my team that can actually hit them hard right off the bat.

    I decided not to go with these suggestions:

    1. Adamant dugtrio: even though on paper I deal with raikou well, my only real answer to it is blissey. Once they figure out im a CM blissey, I've found raikou is likely to stay in and try to CM up with me. This is a problem because while i am favored to win the calm mind war, if I do in fact win, I've killed his raikou (yay) but now I have to switch out from whatever strong physical attacker he brings in, meaning my boosts are useless, and I've wasted a bunch of Ice beams. Considering Raikou is often paired with other offensive cm pokes, those ice beams may be useful later. On the other hand if he crits me, I lose on the spot. Yeah i can come in on a predicted tbolt or double switch and survive the hidden power, but that is my only option, if he calm minds im dead, if he subs im dead, and if he hidden powers im dead, even if it's a revenge kill, that can only happen when he has no boosts, and no sub. Sure adamant dugtrio helps against defensive roar cune, but using it just so that maybe with prediction i can kill one set of one particular pokemon that gives me problems isn't worth it, especially when I can easily wear cune down with residual damage (it's not that hard even with rest). The extra speed also helps with a couple other pokemon who are less rare than many think, such as tauros, alakazam and jolly dd tar (who was actually a lot more common than I expected) as well as weakened starmie.

    2. HP fire forretress: starmie is much harder for me to deal with than enemy forretress. Blissey is a great starmie answer, but it's no spinblocker.

    3. Non max speed jolly dugtrio. This is mainly just for desperate situations with opposing dugtrio and alakazam. Even if i don't end up in one of those situations (which I have at least once or twice) that doesn't mean my opponent won't, and I don't like just giving him that chance on a silver platter. The extra power loss doesn't really matter too much anyway, only against blissey.

    4. Celebi over dugtrio. Dugtrio has been surprisingly handy on this team, and i have good switch ins to most dugtrio followups, so the tempo loss doesn't matter too much. While celebi was awesome, and helped against curselax and roar cune, it left me pretty much dead to opposing pursuit tar, blaziken, and heracross. I put fire punch on gar to help against hera, as well as magneton and metagross who I was much more weak to without dugtrio, but it didn't solve the other two problems, and made my gar not as useful at wearing down blissey and lax, giving me really long matches where I had to leech seed stall them, and hope they die before they pp stall me. Ironically, someone using the original incarnation of this team had a huge advantage against me without dugtrio. Also a part of me didn't want an exact replica of the draco malfoy team :p

    Anyway, thank you so much for the suggestions, Im sorry that I was not able to include all of them, however I hope this reply helps people better understand the team and how to play with it.

    Edit: upon further inspection, the dugtrio EVs given by Isa don't take into account HP bug dropping the spD evs by one, so I've just taken another 4 from attack and put them into spDef. (adding one into HP still doesn't allow guaranteed survival)
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
  7. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
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    Dugtrio + CMBliss + Gengar + Spikes is a very good combination, because Dugtrio can remove Gengar and CMBliss biggest counters, and with predicion, Dugtrio can also trap the Magnezone before it can trap the Spiker.
    Now, looking at the team:
    You don't really need Rock Slide in this set. It will do very little damage to Blissey and Snorlax, and you could use better things like Toxic (always useful, especially since this set attracts a lot of bulky waters), Roar (it helps vs things like curselax until it's last mon, and it gives you an another phazer, or IB if you miss the ability to threaten Zapdos, and it also OHKOes Flygon).
    You could also give it some more SpDef EVs to be able to take Starmie surf better and hit it hard with a Crunch.
    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 184 HP / 252 SAtk / 72 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Crunch
    - Flamethrower
    - Pursuit
    - Toxic/Roar/Ice Beam/HP Grass

    The HP evs let it always survive a jolly dugtrio EQ, while max sp atk is needed to hit as hard as possible. It will OHKO with sand most Starmies with crunch, unless they are very bulky (max HP has a 25% chance to be OHKOed).
    It's crunches can also beat last mon curselax with some sp def drops (they will happen)


    Gengar is key in this team, and Taunt WoW is a good set, but you might prefer using a more offensive set (even if you keep taunt WoW).
    Also you could consider using Explosion > Taunt or even Ice Punch to surprise Lax and Bliss, 2 of the best CMBliss counters.
    Maybe something like this:

    [​IMG]
    Ghost Realm (Gengar) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 120 HP / 160 Atk / 116 Def / 16 SAtk / 24 SDef / 72 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Taunt / Explosion
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Ice Punch / Explosion
    - Thunderbolt

    A set that is still pretty bulky, and surprises with a Boom late game. It could also help vs bulky CMCune (t-bolt + boom + dug).

    Or you could use a faster Hypnosis set, that works very well with dug:

    [​IMG]
    Avalon (Gengar) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 96 HP / 96 Def / 140 SAtk / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Hypnosis
    - Ice Punch
    - Thunderbolt

    The HP and Def EVs let it always survive a +1 HP Flying from Gyarados, while the speed EVs let it outspeed +nature base 100s.


    You could consider HP Fire > HP Bug. You already beat Claydol with t-tar, and between Gengar + Tyranitar + Dugtrio you shouldnt have many problems with Starmie.
    Toxic is also an option instead of Explosion


    Nothing to say. Maybe the most important mon of the team. Be careful when using it, losing it too early might be very bad. Also vs P2 teams, you have to think what mon do you want to trap (or maybe surprise P2 with a boom).
    It's also good revenge killing Starmies.


    If you miss Toxic, you could always use Toxic + Roar (especially if you use Roar t-tar)


    Nothing to say, just be careful with CMers with roar!




    Overall it is a solid team. Some things that could give it problems:
    1. P2 teams are a pain, because you rely on Dugtrio a lot to RK things like Raikou Offensive Jirachi, etc.
    2. Offensive CMers with roar (aka Suicune and Raikou, especially if Dug has been removed by P2) are a huge threat. Explosion Gengar could help vs them, as well as Toxic Swampert (in Suicune case). Explosion Forry can also work as an emergency. You have the advantage of having sand, so they won't have lefties recovery. CM Rest Raikou + P2 is also a huge problem, and it will easily PP stall bliss.
    3. Bulky roar cune and curselax can be problematic, especially if last mon, although you have ways to beat them.
    4. Sub Charizard with Focus Punch and HP Grass could be problematic


    And some variations you could try:
    a) Using physical t-tar (CB or DD taunt) and Taunt Skarm > Forry, and HPump + Protect Swampert. You lose your spinner, but the team is now more offensive, and Dug is the only mon that does not hit Skarm/Forry hard. The idea is the same: Spikes + Gengar + CMBliss + Dugtrio, but now physical t-tar can force Bliss out, so with Spikes + Sand you can slowly weaken Blissey not allowing it to heal (Gengar can sleep, Skarm can taunt, T-tar can hit it hard, etc) until Dug can trap kill it, so Gengar is a bigger danger (especially the Hypno + 3 attacks set)

    b) Using Milotic or Suicune > Swampert. You could have more problems vs Aero, but Milotic helps vs things like CM Roar Suicune, Charizard, etc, while still beating Metagross, Salamence, etc
    Aerodactyl Legend likes this.
  8. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan

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    Feb 14, 2014
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    83
    Hey thanks for the very detailed rate :) I just have a couple questions so I can test and use these to their fullest potential. First I just want to know what the EVs on the explosion gar set you gave me accomplish specifically, like am i still able to stay in on +1 mence, or are the defense evs for something else? and same with the rest of the ev spread, just so I know what I can stay in on and whatnot. Also for the HP fire forretress set, what ev spread do you suggest on it? That's all, thanks again!
  9. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
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    Oh, I made a little mistake with the set.
    It is
    Ghost Realm (Gengar) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 124 HP / 160 Atk / 116 Def / 12 SAtk / 24 SDef / 72 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Taunt / Explosion
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Ice Punch / Explosion
    - Thunderbolt

    Yes, it always survives a +1 HP Flying from mence.
    Idr what the sp atk and sp def evs were for though

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