Gen 1 RMT: RBY LC UU

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
If ever there was a tier where everyone used the standard team, it's this one. For those who are unfamiliar, RBY LC UU is a micrometa, it has 11 pokemon, 3 of which aren't viable due to terrible movepools (caterpie/weedle/magikarp - caterpie does have some nice typing - if it got like Double Edge it'd legitimately be viable) and another that's outclassed (nidoran-f, by the male version), leaving you with 7 pokemon. The one that's NOT in this team is nidoran-M, so you'll see an interesting team within this interseting micrometa. I'll explain the workings in detail.

The Team:


Importable said:
Ekans (M) @ (No Item)
Level: 5
- Earthquake
- Glare
- Rock Slide
- Mimic

Venonat (M) @ (No Item)
Level: 5
Hardy Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Psychic
- Poison Powder
- Toxic

Cubone (M) @ (No Item)
Level: 5
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Blizzard
- Body Slam

Zubat (M) @ (No Item)
Level: 5
- Double-Edge
- Substitute
- Confuse Ray
- Mimic

Goldeen (M) @ (No Item)
Level: 5
- Surf
- Substitute
- Agility
- Double-Edge

Jigglypuff (M) @ (No Item)
Level: 5
- Blizzard
- Thunder Wave
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt

Ekans (M) @ (No Item)
Level: 5
- Earthquake
- Glare
- Rock Slide
- Mimic

I'm using this as a functioning lead. It is tied fastest pokemon with Zubat and Goldeen. Earthquake and Rock Slide are the best options on this set; rock slide is a nice way to hit lead Zubat and Venonat, whilst Glare puts the rare Goldeen in a bad way. The choice of the last move is pretty; generally there's not much else that you'd need to do with ekans. Mimic is an option to use against the very rarely incapacitated foe which might have an useful move, but with its coverage hitting everything bar goldeen (and magikarp), Cubone (which OHKOs you), and Jigglypuff super effectively, it needn't have anything more than those attacks and the need to spread paralysis. The advantage of using it in a lead spot is that you can hurt venonat early and punish it for trying to get sleep, and possibly KO it should it miss sleep powder. Whilst Cubone has a strong match-up against this set, since it can OHKO, Venonat has a strong match-up versus Cubone making it rarer. Furthermore Rock Slide hits Zubat super effectively, making it risker for zubat to lead. The means of chain switching are functional with zubat, which, in a tier with a strong ground-type attacker and several pokemon weak to it, it can force situations versus the rare Cubone leads that are potentially advantageous. Being able to lure a blizzard with zubat is helpful, for goldeen to come in, but generally zubat's best option is to blanket confuse ray.


Venonat (M) @ (No Item)
Level: 5
Hardy Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Psychic
- Poison Powder
- Toxic

Whilst it's not the tier's only sleeper, Jigglypuff's Sing is much more unreliable, and with venonat available there's no reason not to carry sleep powder. Psychic is pretty mandatory as it hits everything at least neutrally and half the tier super effectively, and is venonat's strongest move versus any opponent. Whilst this set might look bad on the surface, Venonat has very few options. Stun Spore for a double powder approach is viable, but hitting a switch in with psychic is less risky and often more valuable. Given Disable's poor 55 accuracy and substitute's inability to block most forms of status, instead providing filler moves making the rare mimic abuse as poor as possible is the best option. Also, the pokemon in this tier simply aren't bulky enough, and are too powerful, for a reflect+rest set to work, especially with the grand amount of weaknesses.


Cubone (M) @ (No Item)
Level: 5
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Blizzard
- Body Slam

A fantastic pokemon in the tier, nessecary on every team, it is by far the most physically bulky pokemon in the tier, with a powerful STAB earthquake shattering almost everything. Fire Blast to hit Venonat for super effective damage is pertinent once the powder is taken, and the power of its earthquake stops any getting in, apart from when something goes. It's slower but tankier and always puts in work versus any team. Fire Blast also helps with Caterpie which actually has a better match up versus Cubone than a lot of pokemon in the tier would have otherwise. Nevertheless, EQ being paired with Rock Slide or Fire Blast in this tier means that with its poor attacking movepool, it's virtually never able to abuse its rather neat defensive typing, lacking in weakness to water, ice, psychic, and possesing a ground resistance. Body Slam on Cubone is a filler move mostly, but it's Cubone's best option versus a Goldeen switch, as the threat of paralysis is amazing, and oftentimes it might not be any other way for you to win. So unlike some of the filler moves, it's usable. It's probably more useful than Submission, since Jigglypuff is hit very hard by earthquake.


Zubat (M) @ (No Item)
Level: 5
- Double-Edge
- Substitute
- Confuse Ray
- Mimic

The fourth pokemon of this team, it's one dropped by most teams in favour of having Nidoran-M. Zubat does however offer a switch-in to ground type attacks and an evens style chance versus any match up, especially with its tied highest speed of the tier with Ekans and Goldeen. Double Edge hits the whole tier hardest out of anything in its movepool. Substitute and Mimic are powerful options particularly versus Venonat. I prefer running these over Wing Attack since they do similar damage but Double Edge has recoil, whereas Substitute, Confuse Ray, and Mimic all offer alternative methods of achieving a better result with Zubat. It is clearly a more inferior pokemon, but the switches it does have the potential to force (albeit it dislikes Body Slam Cubone as it ruins some of its synergy with goldeen) and the reasonable enough chance it has of causing some disruption, it can be a pokemon of value.


Goldeen (M) @ (No Item)
Level: 5
- Surf
- Substitute
- Agility
- Double-Edge

RBY LC UU's Tauros, Agility allows it to break through any disadvantage through paralysis and offers a better match-up versus Zubat and Ekans (although Glare gets through substitutes so usually attacking is a better option), with STAB Surf allowing it to force out Cubone. Realistically Surf's better accuracy combined with STAB allow it to be better than Blizzard for Goldeen, as Blizzard only hits Zubat harder. A fairly unstoppable little cleaner, this pokemon's a threat you have to keep an eye out for particularly during the later game.


Jigglypuff (M) @ (No Item)
Level: 5
- Blizzard
- Thunder Wave
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt

Finally, a Pokemon eschewed less than Zubat but more than Nidoran-M, we have jigglypuff. It's the only pokemon in the tier to have such an expansive movepool, but with the lowest speed it faces difficult making use of this. The set that it possesses allows it to be a check to Goldeen, Cubone, and all the poison types, and although it has to play a more supportive role in bringing down the opposing team, its coverage is fantastically supported by Thunder Wave. Furthermore it can take a few hits allowing it a better opportunity to spread more paralysis. I feel Sing is too unreliable to run.

So there you have a team viable in the RBY LC UU metagame, with some set variations of my own; other players eschew different pokemon more often, or choose different leads, or choose different sets for Venonat, Jigglypuff, or possibly even Cubone or Zubat. Rates, Hates, luvdiscs and suchlike, enjoy my team and enjoy the tier.
 
Last edited:
I just don't understand the reasoning behind the tiering. It's beyond me that from an OU tier with over 50 Pokemon you can somehow only take 11 to UU, three of which are ass and another one which is basically a clone of another Pokemon. That's just seven different Pokemon. Playing with always the same team just cannot be fun enough. This tier really looks like the UU of NU or something (i think it has a name in the newer gens), UU should contain all Pokemon that aren't used in OU, which according to my notes are all but 15-20. Even if a BL tier actually existed, you'd move there no more than 10-15 Pokemon, leaving UU with at least 20 Pokemon.

Moreover, I think the UU pokemon list was made arbitrarily. For example, I just don't see what makes Goldeen significantly worse than Squirtle, Omanyte, Tentacool, Seel or Psyduck. The Ice move? Is hitting Zubat 50% harder actually that relevant somehow? I could also argue that EQ weakness hinders Tentacool and Omanyte (and water neutrality for the latter), or that a certain low stat hinders whichever. Seems completely random that stuff like Jigglypuff, Cubone, Venonat or Ekans is allwed while Ratatta, Sandshrew, Pidgey, Bulbasaur, Bellsprout, Magnemite, Spearow, Kabuto, Eevee, [insert anythnig here] is not.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
I thought there was /some/ reasoning behind the tiering lol.. it's pretty arbitary, and it's interesting to see how this meta works. Idk maybe we should pplay some RBY LC BL first and see if these mons legitimately are too bad for that tier.. Maybe after the RBY LC UU tour I'm holding we could have an RBY LC BL one to see if these mons legitimately aren't good enough and that basically the tiering is right or if the tiering is wrong.
 
The thing is that the UU and BL tiers aren't made the way you think they are. A Pokemon isn't moved from BL to UU if it's too bad for BL, but rather a Pokemon is moved from UU to BL is it's too good for UU. BL is not a metagame to play (at least as a priority), but a metagame to make UU playable.

It's not just about whether the tiering is "wrong" or "right". I could make a tier with just Caterpie, Weedle and Magikarp and it will be right based on that these three are clearly inferior to the rest. It's also about placing the cut off reasonably. Just like Ubers is very small compared to OU, BL should aslo be smaller than UU. To be honest, considering RBY LC's popularity and player base, BL shouldn't even exist and UU should just be the ~40 pokemon that are not [used enough in] OU.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
actually at the moment RBY LC is probably the most played tier after RBY OU

Either way it seems to me RBY's tiering in general follows different rules to other generations, it's not popular enough/never has really been popular enough I guess (not totally sure) for us to have OU based on usage stats.
 
Rules aside, it makes no sense to have a serious tier with only seven playable pokemon. And because "actually at the moment RBY LC is probably the most played tier after RBY OU" we gotta do things somewhat decently at least. I could give you an UU tier list with caterpie/weedle/magikarp and a random number generator picking up eight more nfe pokemon that is as legit as the one Zilch made years ago in rby2k10.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
fair enough I guess.. maybe we could work on having an improved tier below RBY LC OU by means of working out what the sensible banlist is. Still, the tier, in spite of its senseless production, is kinda fun. Whilst it'll never be anywhere near as skillful as like RBY OU or even RBY LC OU, it's a fun tier and that's sorta all.
 
The thing is that the UU and BL tiers aren't made the way you think they are. A Pokemon isn't moved from BL to UU if it's too bad for BL, but rather a Pokemon is moved from UU to BL is it's too good for UU. BL is not a metagame to play (at least as a priority), but a metagame to make UU playable.

It's not just about whether the tiering is "wrong" or "right". I could make a tier with just Caterpie, Weedle and Magikarp and it will be right based on that these three are clearly inferior to the rest. It's also about placing the cut off reasonably. Just like Ubers is very small compared to OU, BL should aslo be smaller than UU. To be honest, considering RBY LC's popularity and player base, BL shouldn't even exist and UU should just be the ~40 pokemon that are not [used enough in] OU.
You're trying to tell Pie that the tiers weren't made in the "every tier is playable" model, but clearly they were (as are all 2k10 tiers). Stop confusing people by pretending that the tiers were made the way you would want them to be made.

Now, me, I also prefer a distinction between usage and banlist (ie, Persian/Jolteon/Articuno/Victreebel should be BL and UU should be 2k10's BL). That doesn't mean I'm going to pretend that tiers made without that distinction were made with it and rant about how bad they are by a metric they were never supposed to satisfy.
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
I always assumed this tier was a joke. Or at the very least tongue-in-cheek. Am I to take from this thread that it was actually a serious idea?
 
It's a micro-tier, to the point where teambuilding is barely a factor. It makes it kind of fun, though, since battling strategy and luck are the only real factors at that point. Kind of makes an RMT difficult, since any adjustments you make is basically going to be just changing someone else's team to your own :P

Venonat is probably the best mon in the tier and mandatory, thanks to Sleep Powder and the ability to hit everything relevant super effectively (sans Jiggly) with Psychic and Mega Drain. Stun Spore seems much better than PoisonPowder, since speed ties are major factors in this tier and paralysis is your friend. Reflect is also really handy utility. I don't know why you're running PoisonPowder + Toxic over either of those two moves, or why you're not carrying Mega Drain for Goldeen / Cubone.

Cubone is fantastic thanks to STAB EQ; its variety of other coverage moves, strong Def, and immunity to T-Wave / T-bolt makes it quite nice and basically mandatory as well.

Goldeen is also essentially a must, as it shuts down Cubone and most other threats quite nicely. The best check to Goldeen is probably a Goldeen of your own, and there's really no reason not to run it, so it's basically mandatory as well.

Zubat is great for fucking around with Confuse Ray to get some parafusion going. Most importantly, it's the only EQ immunity in the tier. It's also fast and can put in some great work overall; makes for a nice lead or mid-game utility mon. It'd be tough not to recommend this thing on basically every team.

Ekans is also amazing. Glare is fantastic, plus it gets the coveted RS / EQ combo and solid speed. Once again, hard not to use this on every team.

That basically just leaves one "free" spot. Caterpie, Weedle, and Magikarp are all ass. Nidoran-F is not going to be used over Nidoran-M at all. So you've got one actual choice (sans movepools) when it comes to teambuilding: Nidoran-M or Jigglypuff.

Jiggly has a ton of utility moves and coverage. The problem is, it's really weak and slow as shit, so it's not really accomplishing much. T-Wave is the best it has to offer; after that, it can attack and hope for parahax, set up a Reflect, or pray that Sing hits something (assuming Veno failed to sleep something already or they sac'd their sleeping mon). It has access to Psychic and other coverage moves, but it's not sweeping anytime soon. I really don't like Jiggly, tbh.

Nidoran-M, on the other hand, is faster and can actually hurt things. It requires para support, but that's not too hard to come by in this tier (Body Slams, Veno's Stun Spore, Ekans's Glare). If you've para'd what you need to, this thing can at least help clean up in the end or offer some offensive pressure mid-game. Unfortunately, it's pretty frail and weak to EQ and Psychic, meaning it's still not really that great.

The Jiggly vs Nido-M debate is just a matter of which sucks less, but I prefer Nido on that one. It's a bit more all-or-nothing than Jiggly, but it can at least be a threat. Ultimately it comes down to some utility vs offensive pressure, and this metagame lends itself much more nicely to offense. Realistically, either one are what you're probably hoping Veno puts to sleep :P
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Yeah you're kinda unique with your love of zubat more than jigglypuff. I run those moves on venonat to fuck with possible mimic users, whilst I can see the merits of stun spore I guess mega drain is less than half psychic's power, so it hits cubone/goldeen for weaker, and the healing effect is pretty minimal in this tier. In short there's no reason not to spam psychic with it as it hits everything hardest. Sing is defo too dodgy in this tier for jiggly, but I feel with jiggly that it's a threat that once in you have to handle straight away. Twave/Psychic/Tbolt/Blizzard hits the whole meta super effectively bar itself, whilst anything other than cubone hates twave (although venonat wins 1vs1 if sleep's not yet been taken). I feel that Nido-M certainly's got a lot of flaws, I mean you can run it if you feel another pokemon is bad in the tier, but generally it's run due to okay speed, power, and coverage. I feel Zubat is a poorer choice but I personally like it. Double Edge is your strongest move versus the whole tier unless you mimic a psychic (wing attack is just as strong vs nat, but without the recoil. So I guess there could be use for it). The bat really doesn't have anything else mandatory, but it works in a way similar to gengar/zapdos in OU, i.e. gimmicky chain switching, in this case versus cubone, with your earthquake immunity and goldeen's ice resistance (but an EQ will dent it pretty badly, and a crit EQ OHKOs), whilst also having options in confuse ray, subsitute, mimic, etc. to use to get luck to go your way etc. but I feel that there's a lot of reason not to run it, although it's surely better to let take sleep than ekans.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
I like your random smiley a lot. But yeah you've got a choice of about 3 pokemon which could be dropped. And in this case he's right to call them mandatory, it can literally be guarantee'd that if you lack them your team is worse. We're not used to mandatory being used so correctly xD
 
And in this case he's right to call them mandatory, it can literally be guarantee'd that if you lack them your team is worse. We're not used to mandatory being used so correctly xD
There are cases in other tiers. Snorlax in GSC OU, Mewtwo/Mew in RBY Ubers, Lugia/Mew in GSC Ubers. There's a case for Exeggutor counting in RBY OU, as well.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Eh no in RBY OU the only mon I actually feel I can never go without is Snorlax (Tauros rarely u wanna use dnite, eggy on a really aggressive team victreebell can work, chansey can be dropped if you have stuff like chansey, slowbro, other psychics, but lax I don't think there's ever a reason not to use it or a mon that could replace it that does a similar job (tanking a couple of neutral hits, hitting powerful back, having a wide movepool that occasionally allows it to lure threats or play differently, and selfdestructing)
 
Eh no in RBY OU the only mon I actually feel I can never go without is Snorlax (Tauros rarely u wanna use dnite, eggy on a really aggressive team victreebell can work, chansey can be dropped if you have stuff like chansey, slowbro, other psychics, but lax I don't think there's ever a reason not to use it or a mon that could replace it that does a similar job (tanking a couple of neutral hits, hitting powerful back, having a wide movepool that occasionally allows it to lure threats or play differently, and selfdestructing)
Snorlax is absurdly good and basically unique (Clefable's the only thing that comes close), but there are a few teams where you don't have room for it.

"Chansey can be dropped if you have Chansey" - lol. That aside, I think you may be misinterpreting Chansey's role if you think Slowbro can fill its shoes. The main reason Chansey's a staple is that it walls BoltBeam safely (Zam and Rest Jynx have much smaller margins of error). It's not really for Zam (though it certainly does help); it's for Thunderbolt Starmie and (especially) Thunderbolt Lapras, neither of which Slowbro can switch into.

EDIT: On-topic, why isn't Ekans running Wrap?
 
Last edited:

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
wrap is banned

real men switch victreebell into tbolt lapras.
seriously though I have an aggressive enough team where taking starmie out enough by even paralysing it is big enough that I can afford losing a tobybro to it, and it has victreebell, so needs neither chansey nor eggy
 
wrap is banned

real men switch victreebell into tbolt lapras.
seriously though I have an aggressive enough team where taking starmie out enough by even paralysing it is big enough that I can afford losing a tobybro to it, and it has victreebell, so needs neither chansey nor eggy
If Wrap's banned, why's Dratini an LC Uber?
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
it's not lc uber in 2k10 tier, and we don't have another wrap-permitted lc tiering system going beneath lc ou.

wow I responded to that really late lol; oh well it's relevant, so necrobump lgi
 

froggy25

Bye RNGmon
is a Researcher Alumnus
I didn't read the whole thread, but aren't these eleven ones NU and not UU ?
Code:
010 Caterpie
013 Weedle
023 Ekans
029 Nidoran♀
032 Nidoran♂
039 Jigglypuff
041 Zubat
048 Venonat
104 Cubone
118 Goldeen
129 Magikarp
With Pidgey being close to being the 12th from the very few LC games I played, Quick Attack saves it in the upper tier though. (Sky Attack would hurt these 11 Pokémon I guess :P )
Not that it's bad but I prefer Eevee and Rattata to use Quick Attack.

Or are you using something like OU / BL / UU instead of OU / UU / NU ? =P
 

froggy25

Bye RNGmon
is a Researcher Alumnus
This tier list looks good but there are too many Pokémon in the BL tier to not just make them UU and the UU NU imo
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
I dunno.
If you can drum up enough of a rby lc playerbase to sensibly determine rby lc tiering that'd be wonderful, but since i can't I've decided not to fuk with it
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top