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RMT Sand/Stall

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Magic Boo, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. Magic Boo

    Magic Boo

    Jan 18, 2013
    Hello everybody! I'm new here, and wish you could assess the team that I'm using in order to gain experience to further develop my skills in battles, I've been using a team tent, with a view to making more my style of play very defensive.
    But let's get to it:

    (Hippowdon) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Slack Off
    - Whirlwind
    - Stealth Rock

    Hippowdon wall physically resistant to good physical hits, besides help against physical Tyranitar among others, besides climate change to sand, what helps a lot against teams from rain and sun; leftolvers guarantees a longer life ...

    (Forretress) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Gyro Ball
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin

    Fundamental to the performance of the team, I opted for the special defensive forrestress once before analyzing what the current meta-game with forrestress SDEF come more often in the game in order to put spikes and toxic spikes, use Gyro Ball's a great support against gengar's and terrakion's that may counterar the softly.

    (Jellicent) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Taunt
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp

    By far the best blocker in use today for Spin OU metagame therefore received a point to stay on this team. Taunt + WoW in order to get forrestress and ferrothorn, I chose to use Shadow Ball in order to catch Deoxys-D and other Jellicents, besides all this can be jellicente salvation before Keldeo (as long as it does not have HP electric)

    (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Seismic Toss
    - Protect
    - Toxic

    Despite being very committed to BW2 opted to keep the wall like Blissey team in particular, the use of wish is very useful against equips "volturn"; toxic assists against Latias calminder among others, and seismic toss that ensures constant hit on their counters, basically protect the student pokemons banders opponent besides Guaranteeing you love to hit a turn toxic when possible.

    (Gyarados) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDEF
    Impish Nature (+ Def,-SAtk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Waterfall
    - Dragon Tail

    That kind of summed Gyarados Stealth Rock and Spikes can cause a big headache opponents in rest and sleep you talk of greater life and this added to the wish Blissey causes it to enter often, I chose dragon tail in place of roar although not 100% effective when acuracy generates a damage precious as rotom in pokemon, Latias and Latios among others ...

    (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 244 HP / 32 SAtk / 12 SDEF / 220 Spd
    Calm Nature (+ SDEF,-Atk)
    - Protect
    - Substitute
    - Roar
    - Lava Plume

    Perhaps the biggest surprise of this team, Heatran assures me good support, plus protect leftolvers substitute roar and gives him a good recovery to him, stab lava plume moves with a high chance of burn can haxiar terrakions and Tyranitar that may come into field (when it is not the presence of toxic spikes)

    It's definitely the best team that ever ridden, and I have been performing well with it, but I'm open to suggestions and criticisms that can improve my game, hear from more experienced players will be of much help.
  2. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Jun 11, 2011
    Just a quick rate since I don't like stall, so I'm not the best person to leave a feedback on this, but mixed Venusaur completely screws you regardless of the weather conditions. It can set up on the following members of your team: Jellicent and Forretress regardless, Gyarados and Hippowdon if they choose not to gamble with their phazing move and switch out (probable), and Blissey if the weather is sunny (otherwise it cannot boost fast enough to tank its Tosses with Giga Drain recovery). Heatran is destroyed by Earthquake (37.5% chance to OHKO unboosted with SR, guaranteed OHKO in every other circumstance). The worst thing is that Venusaur outspeeds your entire team WITHOUT SUN UP! and thus doesn't even rely on its partner Ninetales to wreck you, most of the times. Just to make my point clearer (assuming no Sun):

    Calcs (open)
    252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 12 SpD Hippowdon: 343-406 (81.66 - 96.66%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 12 SpD Hippowdon: 510-603 (121.42 - 143.57%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 328-390 (92.65 - 110.16%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 489-577 (138.13 - 162.99%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 257-304 (63.77 - 75.43%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 382-452 (94.78 - 112.15%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 133-157 (33.75 - 39.84%) -- 0.39% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 199-234 (50.5 - 59.39%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    0 Atk Life Orb Venusaur Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 302-359 (78.64 - 93.48%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +1 0 Atk Life Orb Venusaur Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 447-530 (116.4 - 138.02%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    This is assuming the best conditions for you (Venusaur doesn't have a +SpAtk nature, Sun is not up, I just assumed SR which looks reasonable). If Sun is up and Venusaur is Mild or something, it's even worse since Gyarados can't absorb +2 Giga Drains for a lot of time, and Blissey gest beaten outright.

    There's an easy fix for this, and it's using Thunder Wave instead of Toxic on Blissey. This ensures even 252+ Speed Venusaur in Sunlight is outsped by your Heatran, and roasted without many problems. Even if it's not a definitive solution, I think it's the easier way (and the way that less affects your team overall) to at least have an answer to the most common Sun threat out there, so it should definitely be implemented.

    Hope it was useful. Good luck.
  3. Jimbon

    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Jan 24, 2012
    Hi there,

    Cool team you got here, although there are some things that look very threatening to your team. Like ganj4lF stated, Venusaur is very threatening to your team, so is Sun in general. Sun teams carrying Dugtrio remove Heatran leaving you prone to Fire attacks. I'd argue that Gyarados is probably the weakest link on this team, it further enhances your weakness to stuff like Rotom-W as sets with Pain Split can give Blissey a headache. I think you'd be better off trying out something like Sub Dragon Dance Dragonite over your current Gyarados. It gives you a little more insurance against Venusaur / Volcarona, while you really don't miss out on the extra defense Gyarados brings. Hippowdon + Forretress still beat stuff like Terrakion, Scizor, Mamoswine, which Gyarados helped you against. Not to mention ResTalk isn't the most reliable strategy on a Pokemon with a Stealth Rock weakness. If you feel like this exposes your Mamoswine weakness slightly, you might want to run a little more defense on Forretress, or try Scald on Jellicent somewhere; it's more down to personal preference.

    If you don't think this is the greatest change and you want to keep Gyarados, then you should go ahead and make your EV spread 248 HP / 252 Spe / 8 Spe -- this gives you an extra switch-in to Stealth Rock which may be useful in times where you cannot spin with Forretress. Additionally if you want to keep Gyarados, you may require a little more reliability in spinning hazards if you want to keep switching in. As a result, I'd consider trying out Chansey over Blissey with the same moveset, but try Heal Bell > Protect. I'm well aware of the benefits Blissey has over Chansey, but I think for your team specifically you'd get better use out of Chansey. The little extra bulk means that if you play smartly, you won't need Protect to use Wish successfully, as you're taking considerably less damage from most moves. This means you can use Wish much more freely, which is important for Forretress who will needed to be healed after continually switching in against Dragons. Just something to consider, I think Chansey overall will make your team's defensive core slightly stronger, as Chansey can actually take some physical hits.

    Also regarding some of your Pokemon's movesets, I think you could change them. I'd strongly suggest dropping Toxic Spikes on Forretress for another move, probably either Volt Switch or Toxic. Volt Switch allows you to escape from Magnezone switches, while Toxic allows you to hit stuff like Latias as you switch in, which I'd argue Toxic is much more consistent than Toxic Spikes, especially given that few of the most common Pokemon are actually affected by Toxic Spikes. Echoing ganj4lF, I'd also strongly advise the use of Thunder Wave on Chansey / Blissey for the reasons he listed.

    Good luck!

    dragonite (open)
    Dragonite @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 232 HP / 100 SDef / 176 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Dragon Dance
    - Dragon Claw

    This is the EV spread I use for Sub DD Dragonite, but you can play around with the EVs a little. 232 HP EVs gives 381, meaning you can make 4 equal Substitutes and survive on 1 HP. 180 Speed with Jolly allows you to outspeed Breloom, but you can mess around with the Speed and the Nature if you want to outspeed what you think is necessary. The rest goes into Special Defense to take less from Scald / Volt Switch / random Hidden Power which may assist you when trying to set up.
  4. nmitchell890


    Jan 12, 2013
    Oh so I'm not the only user of SandStall :) anyway, onto the rate

    Agreeing with Jimbon, Gyarados is the weakest link of the team. I know how useful Intimidate is (very) but honestly, Gyarados overlaps with Jellicent and therefore increases your weakness to electric. And I have never managed to get Forretress to work for me, purely because it does jack shit to spinblockers. Finally, all decent stall teams have one offensive pokemon to act as a revenge killer and a general 'oh shit' button.

    So, the fixes. Firstly, Skarmory does everything Forretress does (or tries to do) better, except Rapid Spin which I'm going to come onto in a minute. Skarmory also provides phazing support and a useful immunity to ground, along with a decent Breloom check which your team currently lacks (Gyarados doesn't take Bullet Seed too well) and packs reliable recovery.
    With Forretress gone, you need a spinner. My suggestion is Sandslash. Sandslash is very similar to Excadrill except its weaker and it lacks a weakness to Mach Punch. As can be expected, Sandslash is very threatening to all spinblockers except Sableye at +2 after taking damage from hazards and sandstorm. Sandslash also checks Terrakion, outspeeding even Choice Scarf variants in sand and smashing with Earthquake. This allows Sandslash to be a very potent spinner, a revenge killer and your 'oh shit' button.
    A final change would be to swap Toxic to Thunder Wave or even Seismic Toss to Flamethrower on Blissey to deal with Venusaur and cripple faster sweepers (Thunder Wave) or give Ferrothorn/Forretress the middle finger (Flamethrower).

    Good luck :)
  5. Magic Boo

    Magic Boo

    Jan 18, 2013
    I would like to thank all tips were really very good, really helped my way of playing Thunder Wave really was more efficient than toxic. Forres in exchange for Skarmory, and Sandslash instead of Gyarados really helped me a lot, I was impressed with the efficiency of smoothness =)
    Thank you.

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