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Gen 3 [RMT] the adv ou team

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Sapientia, May 7, 2013.

  1. Sapientia

    Sapientia quiero ser tu heroe
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    Since I'm not even close to a good battler anymore and everyone knows this team anyways I decided to post it. Actually this is the only proper team I ever built, so I kinda like it. I am aware of the fact that DracoMalfoy built a very similar team (actually the first version of this team had the same 6 pokemons).


    Team at a glance:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]




    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 176 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 76 SDef
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Pursuit
    - Rock Slide
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Flamethrower

    Made this team pretty unique when I built and won me a lot of games. Was always a lot of fun to kill the enemys Pert and Forry in the first few turns. The main reason why I used it, was to get rid of Gar, since Forry can't really touch it.
    The EVs are pretty obvious, HP and Def to survive Duggys Earthquake, SDef because I need to get rid of Gengar.

    Nowadays this is pretty standard, which sucks because it doesnt surprise anyone anymore. But I have to admit that I liked the fact, that I came back from inactivity and my Tyranitarset was super popular :toast:


    [​IMG]
    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Hidden Power [Flying]
    - Spikes
    - Counter
    - Rapid Spin

    I was working on this set quite a while and this is the final - and hopefully best - solution. I need HP[Fly] to cover the Heracross weak this team has, because Gengar alone can work, but is a risk. Counter is necessary to cover Gyarados, who can set up on Swampert and is a major threat.
    I also thought about Reflect on Jirachi to cover Gyarados, because Duggy can be a problem too, but Counterforry is the better solution.
    There is not much to say about the EVs, since they are pretty much a no brainer. Relaxed Nature to be slower then other Forrys and Spin after them / lay Spikes after their Spin.


    [​IMG]
    Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 240 HP / 136 Def / 76 SAtk / 16 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Sleep Talk
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Beam
    - Rest

    I had Blissey in this Slot when I built the team first, but prefered Swampert because Forry doesn't cover DD Mence and Tar properly. RestTalk because boosters usually come late and you don't want a hurt Swampert then.
    EVs should be quite obvious again, I mean everyone knows Swampert and there is nothing special about this one. Special Attack to onehit Salamence, -Atk because I want to be faster then Bliss and do not really need the Atk.


    [​IMG]
    Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 SAtk / 128 SDef / 80 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Haze
    - Ice Punch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hypnosis

    Gengar is also pretty standard - except Haze. I took Haze, because defensive boosters like Snorlax, Suicune and now also Blissey can become a problem. The lack of a physical hard hitter - and Leech Seed on Celebi - make it easy for CurseLax to set up on this team. Same thing for Suicune. Of course Jirachi can beat both of them, but it is not as reliable as I want it, so Haze is a good plan b.
    Defensive EVs, because I want it to survive Suicune's Surf and be able to switch in it, if necessary.


    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 96 SAtk / 48 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Recover
    - Calm Mind

    Celebi with HP[Ice] and 270 Speed to bait and kill annoying Salamences and Flygons. Also quite nice against Zapdos, Claydol and sometimes even Skarmory.
    The rest of it is pretty obvious and a standard CM Celebi. I need it against Watertanks and Zapdos, and also as a Winning Option.


    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 48 HP / 180 Def / 248 SAtk / 32 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Wish
    - Calm Mind

    Wish is important for this team as I want Forry and Gengar to stay alive.
    With the offensive Split and BoltBeam (more or less) it is my "Sweeper" to end the game for me.
    Since Celebi is everywhere and I don't have Dugtrio I prefer Ice Punch over Psychic, even though this weakens me against Swampert.


    All in all it is a quite solid team, that has some minor weaknesses, which is ok as you can still handle all of them.
  2. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    this team is really cool, it's refreshing to see innovative stuff like haze gengar and hp ice celebi for a change. obviously you've been using it for a long time so there's not a ton to say about weaknesses or whatever, but have you thought about squeezing in baton pass somewhere on celebi? i know from experience that cm-boosted gengar/tyranitar is really scary for a lot of teams to deal with, and if celebi's not in a favorable scenario but still has a couple boosts under its belt, this can prevent them from going to waste. sort of wondering how you deal with hp fire metagross + ddtar aside from perfect prediction, since it seems like unless you can get a counter off with forretress, once pert's gone ddtar kinda wrecks you. especially once they see your forry can't touch them, they'll likely set up to +6 and ohko you and then it's gg. other than that, not much to say - again, nice team, glad you shared it with us.
  3. Sapientia

    Sapientia quiero ser tu heroe
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    CM on celebi could be worth a try and a reason to play this one again. I should try it.

    The problem with ddtar ist true and thats why i used resttalk on pert, because I my may not have a dead or sleeping pert. And I don't really have an other solution for this
  4. JimBob

    JimBob

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    with surprise HPIce are you sure you don't want to run 300 Speed on Celebi to outspeed Adamant CB Flygon/Salamence?
  5. HUARGH

    HUARGH

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    I feel like I should apologize in advance because I dislike this team a lot, in fact I think it is awful. Your first post kind of implies that it has some historical value ('everyone knows this team anyway' 'my ttar set').

    Let me start off by saying that I like all of your pokemon and use them often, nearly (if not all) all of my serious teams have Tyranitar and Gengar. I tend to prefer Skarmory + a rapid spinner (or no spinner at all, using mostly flying/levitating pokemon) rather than having my spinner also be the spiker which pretty much shoehorns you into Forretress, as Cloyster is too easily worn down by things such as sandstorm (which you use yourself starting from turn 1 with Tyranitar). Nonetheless I think Forretress is an excellent pokemon that should be on nearly all teams. I could go on, but the point is: it's not your pokemon that bothers me, but it is rather the combination of them that kind of irks me.

    Let us start off with the combination of Jirachi, Celebi and Tyranitar. What you immediately notice is that all of these pokemon are weak to Dugtrio. Jirachi has 48 HP EVs which put his HP at a seemingly random 353. After a damage calc (because the seemingly random EVs intrigued me) I found out that you want it to survive a Dugtrio EQ 100% of the time at full health, as this is exactly what this spread accomplished and thus I assume that's the logic behind the EVs. Speed EVs are pretty standard, 244 to outspeed jolly TTar and strange stuff such as Breloom and Ludicolo who cap out at 239. If any of these three pokemon are even slightly weakened or you get outpredicted, Dugtrio can come in and win the game.

    To add to your pain, Magneton can trap both Jirachi and Forretress. Your Jirachi doesn't have that much HP and no special defense but nonetheless, thunderbolt is a 3HKO on Jirachi provided it doesn't calm mind, which you probably will be doing as you have no immediate way of hurting Magneton and you're going to lose if you simply try to trade blows unless you hax him (which of course is always a possibility with serene grace). Magneton can have any two moves besides its hidden power and thunderbolt, I have seen endure (with salac), substitute, resttalk, screech, metal sound, reflect and thunder wave off the top of my head. You will straight up lose against metal sound Magneton, screech can soften you up, thunder wave will hurt you as well. They don't even need to go all the way, a simply thunder wave into a switch to Swampert will do the trick as well, forcing you to retreat paralyzed.

    Your Celebi is almost offending me: 270 speed, but you specifically state you want to outspeed Salamence. Most CB Salamences will have 299 speed and even bulky ones or DD ones will typically run anywhere from 264 to 270, 264 giving them 398 speed after 1 DD allowing them to outrun everything in OU not called protect Yanma and Electrode whereas 270 outruns Adamant Heracross. If you are going to leave your Celebi in against Salamence, it should at the VERY LEAST have 271 speed, but much rather 300. Flygon carries HP Bug quite often, too, and typically has 299 speed. Your team is full of pokemon that can make great use of calm mind (bar Forretress), but your Celebi doesn't have baton pass - something that bugs me as well.

    Tyranitar is fine, it's just another viable way to play Tyranitar, but no earthquake (or strong STAB; rock slide will still do respectable damage but you did not invest in attack whatsoever) just begs for hp grass Raikou to come in early and 6-0 your team. You have no Dugtrio or Aerodactyl that can revengekill Raikou once it gets in unscathed and then you better have your lube ready. Let us say that Raikou comes in on either Gengar or Forretress - that's game, you immediately lose and get 6-0'd. Gengar cannot break 0hp/0sdef Raikou's substitute and Raikou is faster (Raikou would even be faster than a 252+ Gengar, so subbing is always a safe option). At this point you do not know whether it has HP ice or HP grass, but it matters little: even if you immediately switch out to Celebi, Raikou will beat your Celebi in a CM war thanks to having a sub, more sp.attk yet exactly the same sdef and more speed. HP Ice will spell a 100% loss while you can *theoretically* still win against HP Grass, but it's going to be extremely unlikely. HP Ice Raikou is dealt with pretty well by your Swampert and resttalk means Swampert is probably going to stick around, but if something would happen to it (could be an unsuspected will-o-wisp, a weird HP grass, an unsuspected explosion, ...,) you are done for.

    Next on the list is your weakness to spikes: 5 of your pokemon are hurt by spikes. If Forretress gets Magneton'd or something gets a sub up on it, you are dead. Pursuit Tyranitar is an amazing way to deal with spinblockers if not the best way, but the rare Sub/Focus Punch Gengar can come in on Forretress, set up a sub and OHKO TTar. Sub Skarmory - especially SDef variants, which I have found to be more common than Def ones - have fun as well.

    Next is status: you have no cleric and only Celebi to deal with status. Although you have 4 pokemon who can switch into a toxic, you have only Celebi who can switch into a WoW and zero pokemon who can switch into Breloom's/Smeargle's spore.

    - T-wave Blissey walls your entire team, you have no good way of disposing of her.
    - Dugtrio has a field day, can eliminate many of your pokemon and he IS going to kill Celebi eventually.
    - HP Grass Raikou 6-0's you and puts you in a tough position because you don't know his hidden power, if you guess wrong you lose the game and if you guess correctly he just has to swap out (or start a CM war with Celebi which he will most likely win)
    - You have very low offensive power but rely on non-rest, clericless Forretress to spin
    - This appears to be a stall team but it will lose against nearly every other Tyranitar/Forretress stall team due to 1. heavy reliance on Forretress, 2. being Dugtrio weak 3. having no proper end game pokemon (Jirachi isn't 'proper') such as Aerodactyl
    - You have no way of inflicting status except for Hypnosis on Gengar
    - Body slam/Shadow ball Snorlax can do what he wants, although sand is generally a pretty good way of weakening Snorlax he is eventually going to paralyze it up. Wish Jirachi does well against sball Snorlax but eventually you're going to eat a paralyze on Jirachi while he is going to eat nothing on Snorlax (assuming Snorlax has rest, which is not a weird assumption).
    - No phazing to take advantage of spikes


    + I love pursuit TTar, it is amazing
    + Counter on Forretress is really smart
    + I wouldn't worry about Heracross, CB variations get worn down by sandstorm and you don't have anything except for hypnosis to trigger his guts boost and sleep talk cannot select fpunch, your Forretress is 252/252+ Def so it doesn't mind taking the occasional fpunch either, especially if they are not CB'd/gutsed
    + Haze Gengar is really cool, but the stuff it is supposed to haze can still hit him even at +0 (Suicune/sball Snorlax). Still, it's nice.

    Suggestions
    I don't know how much you care or if you are even planning on making changes, but RMT rules oblige me to back up my criticism with suggestions

    1. If you are going to so heavily rely on rapid spin you will need more support for your Forretress or at the very least give it earthquake so it can nab a surprise K.O. on Magneton at the cost of losing a free turn if the opponent doesn't have Magneton (or doesn't swap in Magneton). You could also swap out Forretress for Claydol and use Skarmory as a spiker, you could replace Celebi for Skarmory (additionally this would give you 2 levitaters in trade for 2 groundedmons and lessen your weakness to Dugtrio). Skarmory can also threaten Heracross more than HP Fly Forretress, although it is worse at taking fpunches.
    2. You need Aerodactyl or Dugtrio, your current win condition is quite poor.
    3. In the event of keeping Celebi, please remove psychic for baton pass. This would make you more vulnerable to Gengar and Heracross, however. You could change HP Ice to Psychic but keep the 300 speed (270 is not an option, it is simply too low) so you can BP to Swampert if Salamence shows up. You could also ditch recover, but recover is a great move so I'm torn.
    4. Instead of Jirachi I would go with Zapdos, a specially defensive if you are not adding baton pass on Celebi and a more defensive one if you aren't. You could also go balls deep and 252/252 sp.attk, it's more of a preference. If you do this you will need to rely on Tyranitar to stop sball Snorlax however, which isn't that great. You also lose wish
  6. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    The version of this team that I ran used Specially Defensive Zapdos with Roar to take advantage of the Spikes stacking. Running Zapdos also makes Suicune less of a bother.

    I also had Psong on Celebi to avoid losing to stupid crap like last-poke CM Bliss.

    You should probably run EQ on Forr to check for Magnetons. No Spikes = no win for this team, so being able to dissuade Mag switch-ins is important.

    Crunch on Ttar > HP Grass imo. Grass might get surprise kills on Pert, which is cool, but it gets worn down by Spikes anyway. Crunch does almost as much damage as a 2x Super-Effective HP Grass anyway, and on top of that it gets Claydol for you and smacks Gengar around even if it stays in to Giga Drain.

    All-in-all, I don't really like this kind of Forretress stall too much, mostly because it loses pretty hard against CM spam teams, which are pretty common atm.
  7. Heist

    Heist
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    given that your tyranitar set is more popular now, you might wanna consider making yourself less weak to it

    the only thing innovative about this team is bold swampert
  8. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Interesting team you have there. I can see why DracoMalfoy ripped your team and called it the "Metagame Changer". Kudos to you.
    I only see a few problems:
    1. You lose to nearly all Pokemon that learn the move Calm Mind. Raikou, offensive Suicune, Calm Mind 3 Attacks Jirachi, Jynx, and a well played Mr.Mime with Hypnosis.
    2. You have three Pokemon weak to Dugtrio but lack a Porygon2 or your own Dugtrio.
    3. Bold Swampert makes you weak to Dragon Dance Tyranitar in the lategame.
    4. You're ironically weak to the set that you popularized: Mixed Tyranitar
    5. 100% of Calm Mind teams will beat you.

    These are all minor problems. Congrats on making such a good, creative team.
  9. Fakes

    Fakes
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    Guys that team is old....
  10. Sapientia

    Sapientia quiero ser tu heroe
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    Yes, I am aware of the Dugtrio weakness and of course some other flaws.
    But this team is quite old and metagame changes. So back then Dugtrio was the "only" problem, because the other things were not that popular.

    But maybe I'll give it a facelift, we will see
  11. meteor64

    meteor64

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    I'm not going to poke at everything everyone else has mentioned, but one thing bugs me- What is gengar hazing on that doesn't utterly destroy it? Heracross? It just seems utterly pointless.
  12. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    it says snorlax, suicune, and blissey...but snorlax sball is a 2hko regardless of boosts, suicune's surf 3hkos even if you haze it (and switching in safely is an issue), and what the hell is gengar going to do to cm bliss once it hazes? hypnosis? in fact that's one of the biggest flaws with this team, once ttar is gone from dugtrio or whatever then cm bliss can come in and start boosting up for a sweep, the flamethrower/hp grass variant 6-0s from there on out unless cele/rachi get hilariously lucky with crits.
  13. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
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    Yes, that team needs Bliss > something.
    The team also has a massive dug weak, and DM version is very dug weak as well though
  14. Sapientia

    Sapientia quiero ser tu heroe
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    I know, but as I said this is old and noone ever played CM Bliss when I built it.

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