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Gen 1 RMT: The best generation

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Smurf., Dec 20, 2009.

  1. Smurf.

    Smurf.
    is a Past SPL Winner

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    The simple premise of this team is to manouvre the opponent in a manner that allows me to control the tempo of the game. This allows me to neutralize threats before inflicting high speed paralysis, ultimately ending in a deadly blitz. The tempo can change rapidly, from high speed status, to semi-stall, to hyper offense in a mere moments notice. Any feedback is most welcome. :)


    ALAKAZAM
    [​IMG]

    · Psychic
    · Thunder Wave
    · Recover
    · Kinesis

    Alakazam is the perfect way to begin the match, instantly shifting momentum in my favour, Thunder wave nullifies any threat that Gengars, or other Alakazams pose. With the low accuracy of sleep moves, kinesis compounds matters by lowering it even further to around 50%. Alakazam can take sleep, being a pseudo-Chansey and having access to recover. This also means the rest of my team can freely continue without the fear of sleep. It spreads paralysis like an epidemic, and a paralysed team is effectively and dead team. Kinesis is useful in a last stand situation.

    ZAPDOS
    [​IMG]

    · Drill Peck
    · Thunderbolt
    · Thunder Wave
    · Toxic

    Zapdos picks up right where Alakazam left off, finishing Exeggutor and Jynx. Its stats make it the ultimate mixed sweeper; however, it also provides another fast paralysis. Breaks stall by increasingly potent poison and super effective STAB to bulky waters. Serves as a lure for Golem/Rhydon, and returns late game to clean up shop. It is unrivalled in its versatility and potency.

    VENUSAUR
    [​IMG]

    · Sleep Powder
    · Swords Dance
    · Razor Leaf
    · Body Slam

    Once Venusaur comes in, it will most likely sleep the incoming counter, forcing yet another switch during which it Swords Dances. Razor Leaf OHKOs Starmie thanks to increased critical hit rate. Venusaur is a force to be reckoned with, especially if Gengar is incapacitated, dealing excellent damage to the majority of standards. Body slam also helps to induce more paralysis. Forms one part of the team’s grass/water defensive core.

    LAPRAS
    [​IMG]

    · Blizzard
    · Thunderbolt
    · Confuse Ray
    · Mimic

    Mimic Lapras is the epitome of Semi-stall in Generation I. With the standardization of ‘TobyBro’, this set often proves to be deadly, especially if it steals Amnesia or Thunder Wave. Amnesia, coupled with her massive HP and Special, can turn her into a boosting tank, while potentially completely incapacitating Slowbro with parafusion. Stealing the likes of T-Wave or Recover off Starmie / Alakazam can spell the beginning of the end, making her incredibly hard to take down. She also provides a perfect counter for Rhydon and Exeggutor, staples on many teams.

    DRAGONITE
    [​IMG]

    · Blizzard
    · Hyper beam
    · Agility
    · Wrap

    If there was ever a set to make you want to run your head through with a keyboard, this is it. Come in at the opportune moment and boost Dragonite’s speed on the switch. Proceed to Wrap, utterly incapacitating any foe. Repeat at your leisure, as your opponent has a meltdown yelling “F*CK MY LIFE!”. Once the opponent is into the kill range, Hyper beam puts them out of their misery, without the drawback of a recharge. Blizzard is for Normal resisters such as Golem and Rhydon.

    GENGAR
    [​IMG]

    · Hypnosis
    · Explosion
    · Thunderbolt
    · Mega Drain

    Gengar is a major threat. Period. With things paralysed left and right, it unleashes havoc late in the game. Physical threats such as Tauros and Snorlax can be put to sleep and then be torn apart between Zam-Gar. Mega drain deals with any Rhydon/Golem still alive. Also provides immunity to explosion and hyper beam, while exploding itself if necessary.
  2. Aether Nexus

    Aether Nexus

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    Nice team. I can see you put a lot of effort into it. Well thought-out information as well; you don't see that too much with RBY RMT posts. Anyways! Unlike the newer generations with more options, with RBY teams, there really is not much to rate; just nitpicks here and there.

    The thing that first caught my eye is: why Toxic on Zapdos? Who are you possibly going to "Stall" with Toxic poisoning? I would rather go with Agility, Rest or even Mimic (which is rare as I hate taking my chances with Mimic) on Zapdos. I usually run Rest on Zapdos, but it can be dangerous. Agility is the superior choice as it's a good way to bypass the Speed effect when Paralyzed. But Zapdos is not much of a sweeper in RBY, thanks to Golem and Rhydon blocking it.

    Also, now that I mention Golem and Rhydon, in order for Gengar to OHKO both of them with Mega Drain, you're going to have Golem down to 239 (CH = OHKO, non-CH = 2HKO) and Rhydon down to 263 (CH = OHKO, non-CH = 2HKO). Never switch Gengar into a fully health Golem or Rhydon, because STAB + SE EQ OHKO's Gengar. IMO, I don't put Mega Drain on Gengar anymore, I just use Psychic. STAB Psychic still 2HKO's both of them, but they have to a bit lower in HP than stated above, by about 30/40 health points. My Gengar never really needs the additional HP, it always just ends up exploding in the end. As for the Water-types, Thunderbolt does more damage to the likes of Starmie, Lapras, and Slowbro (without Amnesia boosts) than Mega Drain ever will. I would rather go for the lucky KO or the PAR status rather some HP.

    As for weaknesses to your team, you are pretty weak to Starmie. 4 out of 6 Pokemon on your team get O/2HKO'd. Alakazam and Gengar are your best shots to keep it at bay, but what you really lack is someone to absorb status. I'd say Alakazam, Zapdos or Venusaur are good PAR absorbers but Zap and Venu aren't going to like switching into Starmie. If you play it right, you can bring those two in on Starmie, eat the T-wave, switch on the predicted Blizzard and switch to something like Lapras or Alakazam (but there is also the fear of being Frozen). Tauros can also majorly affect your team. Lapras can come in on it, or Zapdos. Zapdos is probably your best option, as you can scare it away with it thinking you have Thunder Wave.

    As for Dragonite and Gengar, clearly you want them PAR free. Gengar is a bigger concern as it can't remove the effect of the PAR Speed drop through boosting it's Speed with a move like Agility, but Dragonite can. You can make Dragonite your PAR absorber, then Agility up on the switch (if that Pokemon fears Dragonite, that is) and then proceed to Wrap whatever comes in (hoping it's not a Gengar to thwart Dragonites "combo").

    Well, anyways, that's all the information I have for now. Good luck with the team and it's future success.

    ~ Aether Nexus
  3. Altmer

    Altmer rid this world of human waste
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    you don't need this if you have venu/or vice versa. throw chansey in here so starmie doesn't give you headaches. your team is basically wall-less :(

    also whatcha gonna do about tauros
  4. Smurf.

    Smurf.
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    Cheers for the rate, I appreciate the in depth consideration. :)

    1) Zapdos: It was a real toss up between toxic and agility and light screen. I didnt realize Agility negates the paralysis speed drop. It would certainly help me take out the Starmie threat you mentioned one on one.

    2) Golem/Rhydon: These can be moderately annoying, but are almost certainly lured in by Zapdos, which allows venusaur to set up not only sleep on its biggest counter, but also SD. Given the water/grass core of the team, they are rarely an issue.

    3) Despite the appearance of a Starmie weakness, in actual fact, i rarely have trouble with it. Often it is paralyzed and set up on by Venusaur. If Lapras can mimic recover or amnesia, Starmie will never win one on one. Worse case scenario, I use Agility Dragonite to Wrap it. A statused Tauros is about as useful as wet underpants, and in 95% of cases, it is either paralyzed by alakazam or slept by gengar. Its then only a formality to take it out. If anything, i would say Snorlax is a bigger threat, especially if hypnosis misses or Venusaur is dead. Coming full circle, that is why toxic won a slot on Zapdos.
  5. Altmer

    Altmer rid this world of human waste
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    Point is, why would you poison something when you can para it? If you poison anything it can't be paralysed anymore. Hence Toxic is pointless. Agility lets you survive a para and rape things. I'd prefer that.

    I tend to keep Zapdos out of battle until I get rid of these two.

    Nobody is keeping their Tauros in against something that can sleep it. Problem is, Zam is going to take the para for you. The reason you should have agility on Zapdos and Dragonite is because those two can agility it away. Zam as an opener is susceptible to anything status-y (and trust me, Zam is going to lure a Chansey in for some epic para back). Open with Venusaur, sleep the Zam or Chansey that comes in, and fuckshitup from there. Even Eggy (which is often an opener and a HUGE problem for your Alakazam as opener, since Eggy doesn't mind the para and your Zam does jack shit to it, while Eggy just sleep powders your Zam back to hell). I'd prefer Venusaur as an opener since it can set up on Eggy: it's faster and no way Eggy will stay in to absorb the sleep, or even if he does, you still have a free turn to SD (or if you expect zam you can just body slam for para)
  6. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Toxic is actually good for supporting agility wrapping dragonite - it greatly increases its damage output, and its faster than everything after an agility anyway.
  7. Altmer

    Altmer rid this world of human waste
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    But then you don't need Thunder Wave. You could still drop Twave for something more useful then.

    i forgot about toxic + wrap :(
  8. Borat

    Borat

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    -Zam +Chansey.
  9. Aether Nexus

    Aether Nexus

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    I don't think Wrap + Toxic works. I know I've read an article somewhere stating that when you use a binding move (e.g: Clamp, Wrap, Fire Spin, etc) it negates the effect of Poison or a Burn in RBY, or something like that.

    Your Zapdos-luring-in-Golem-and-Rhydon-to-bring-in-Venusaur-and-setup-then-sweep strategy seems solid but without a decent portion of your opponents Pokemon Paralyzed, then Venusaur will faint sooner or later. The scenario: Zapdos switches into an EQ (let's just say), and then you use Toxic on the incoming switched Pokemon, but let's say Golem or Rhydon switches in; it gets Poisoned. You switch out to Venusaur to eat the STAB Rock Slide. Golems STAB Rock Slide does: Non-Crit: 116 (4HKO); CH: 225 (2HKO); Reflect: 59 (7HKO). Rhydons STAB Rock Slide does: Non-Crit: 131 (3HKO); CH: 253 (2HKO); Reflect: 67 (6HKO).

    Golem seems like more of a threat, as it can use Explosion on you dealing 244 damage without a CH, KO'ing Venusaur after STAB Rock Slide switch-in damage; so your Venusaur would really have no time to set up. There are 3 things you can do once you switch in Venusaur against Golem/Rhydon: Sleep Powder it or whatever switches in, then Swords Dance up & sweep (recommended), STAB + x4 SE Razor Leaf it clearly OHKO'ing it, or Swords Dance up while it switches out thinking you're going to Razor Leaf/Sleep it or if the player predicts right or is gutsy, can use Explosion on you and KO you, ending any possible Venu sweep (not recommended).

    ~ Aether Nexus
  10. Smurf.

    Smurf.
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    Yep what you say regarding Golem's explosion is very true, but this would be more detrimental to his or herself. With the premier physical wall and electric counter gone, Zapdos then has free reign to spread paralysis or sweep on both special and physical fronts. Venusaur doesnt mind taking a rock slide, and as CH are determined by speed difference, i dont think theres a likelihood of that occuring (Venusaur has decent speed). It always sleeps on the switch, giving it two great benefits: 1) incapacitating its greatest counter, most likely a starmie or gengar, 2) buying another turn to set up SD and sweep
  11. Smurf.

    Smurf.
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    Toxic and Wrap work beautifully in conjunction with each other, overcoming wrap's pitiful damage output. This breaks stall unbelievably well, chansey and slowbro eat your heart out.


    No chance of that. Alakazam is simply indispensible to this team for obvious reasons. If anything, Gengar is the one position which is open to competition. I've trialled numerous others in that role, but i like Gengar as an understudy to Alakazam, in case it is paralyzed.
  12. Borat

    Borat

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    You're very mistaken.
  13. Altmer

    Altmer rid this world of human waste
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    Yeah if I'd thunk Chansey in it'd be over Gar - or even Saur :( because you need a normal resist.
  14. Smurf.

    Smurf.
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    Maybe i can bypass Gar but still have a normal resist. Ok, its a bit gimmicky but chansey can run a set of:

    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Softboiled
    ~ Counter
    ~ Thunder Wave

    Take the hit and dish out a surprise KO, then softboiled back hp. I dont believe either Snorlax or Tauros can clean OHKO chansey?
  15. Borat

    Borat

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    Tauros rarely stays in on Chansey unless it can get the clean OHKO. Just an FYI.

    And EQ goes through counter.
  16. Noimus

    Noimus

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    I just want to say one thing, remove WRAP from Dragonite. In game Wrap I think is USELESS. Sure it does damage every turn but its not worth having it in game. Thats just my opinion
  17. Aether Nexus

    Aether Nexus

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    His team isn't based for in-game, it's for competitive matches. Agility/Wrap Dragonite is the only way it can be used in RBY due to Ice-type attacks flying around in matches.

    It needs to "stall" somehow in order to get some Pokemon to KO range to obviously finish them off with one powerful blow with it's amazing 500 base stat total (with only Mew being the other 500 BST Pokemon in RBY).
    Snorlax vs. Chansey:

    Body Slam (STAB): Non-Critical Hit: 318 - Critical Hit: 618 - Reflect: 160
    Earthquake: Non-Critical Hit: 249 - Critical Hit: 484 - Reflect: 125
    Hyper Beam (STAB): Non-Critical Hit: 559 - Critical Hit: 1,089 - Reflect: 218
    SelfDestruct (STAB): Non-Critical Hit: 967 - Critical Hit: 1,886 - Reflect: 485

    Tauros vs. Chansey:

    Body Slam (STAB): Non-Critical Hit: 298 - Critical Hit: 579 - Reflect: 150
    Earthquake: Non-Critical Hit: 233 - Critical Hit: 454 - Reflect: 117
    Hyper Beam (STAB): Non-Critical Hit: 524 - Critical Hit: 1,021 - Reflect: 263

    Once Chansey is at 192 HP (or lower), it's pretty much finished as it can't use Softboiled to gain life (assuming that Chansey is at max HP [703] and has lost 511 Health Points; or basically put, once Chansey loses 511 HP, it's done).

    ~ Aether Nexus
  18. SubSmokeX

    SubSmokeX

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    If Toxic poison didn't go away when you switched out it'd be great. I'd go with Light Screen on Zapdos. Body Slam would probably be better on Lapras rather than taking your chances with Mimic.

    Agility Dragonite is so annoying man :D but I guess that's the point.
  19. Smurf.

    Smurf.
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    Yeah i wish it worked the same as in game, where it allows you to see the target's moveset and select the move to copy.
  20. Borat

    Borat

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    192.
  21. Aether Nexus

    Aether Nexus

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    Yeah, just edited that. Thanks for pointing it out.

    ~ Aether Nexus
  22. Megan_Fox

    Megan_Fox

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    Nice team, never seen a rby RMT before. Since i didnt play competitively back then, i cant really suggest anything but wouldnt you be better off replacing wrap for something for better coverage?
  23. Aether Nexus

    Aether Nexus

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    That's your mistake right there. There really is no point in you making a post if you don't know what you're posting about. In this case, you absolutely know nothing about the RBY metagame, and you pretty much pointed that out. RBY Dragonite needs Wrap in order for it to survive. I wont repeat what I basically said in my previous post above yours, but yes, that is why Draggy needs Wrap in RBY.

    If you're not using a Wrapper set for it in RBY, then it's going to have to be a very late-game sweeper when you have to make sure the right moves it learns can knock out your opponents Pokemon or else Draggy is put on ice, literally. Plus, Dragonite's 500 BST is the only good thing about in RBY, as it gets no good STAB moves, Ice-type moves are everywhere in RBY OU, and there are much better coverage Pokemon than it. But still, Dragonite is fun to use and Wrap/Agility Dragonite is the only set I ever see on it/use. Basically put, Smurf's Dragonite should stay the way it is lol.

    ~ Aether Nexus
  24. Borat

    Borat

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    I'm a pretty high on the hierarchy of dicks, and I must say: wow, you're a dick. That was totally unnecessary, unless he purposely attacked you or something.

    True as it may be, there's certainly another way of getting your point across.
  25. SubSmokeX

    SubSmokeX

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    ^ Chansey sucks :D

    Anyways I think Aether is right, cause in the real world people aren't so polite all the time.

    I dunno why people make a big deal about Dragonite double ice weakness. Even if it only had a normal ice weakness you wouldn't let it take an ice beam or whatever. You wouldn't let Zapdos thunderbolt your Starmie would ya?

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