Gen 1 RMT: Trying my hand at RBY

[Dormin]

Well, after much time spent in D/P and ADV, I felt it was time to visit my roots and try the RBY metagame. If you can believe it, I'm going to use this for Netbattle and ingame so I can dust off my old Stadium cartridge. I must say it is nice not to have to post ev's, items, and natures. Well, here is my vision--probably going to need some work.

NOTE: Most of these pokes and their sets are going to look pretty standard, which I am comfortable with at the moment, as I'm new to this metagame. Changes in Bold.

(Retro sprites FTW!!)

Exeggutor
-Stun Spore
-Explosion
-Sleep Powder
-Psychic

Considering Tangela over him just to be cool. Pretty standard starter Exeggutor back to standard Double-powder+Explosion. Awesome.

Starmie
-Thunder Wave
-Recover
-Blizzard
-Thunderbolt

I've heard Starmie is a force to be reckoned with, and I believed. Back to T-wave over surf like I had had originally. Still a great sweeper with Boltbeam.

Tauros
-Body Slam
-Hyper Beam
-Blizzard
-Earthquake

General sweeper, can bring him in at various points during the game because I have Charizard as my late-game sweeper. From what I've seen, every serious RBY team has a Tauros :/

Rhydon
-Body Slam
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Substitute

Rhydon to replace Golem--though the debate over "Rhydon vs Golem" will be an eternal struggle, Rhydon's power is greatly needed on the team. Between Rhydon, Tauros, and Eggy explosion cover Chansey pretty well, as Pocket pointed out. Plus, while Sub will only block damage online, I believe it blocks status in Stadium as well.

Alakazam
-Psychic
-Thunder Wave
-Recover
-Seismic Toss

Standard Alakazam, with Seismic Toss replacing Reflect. Lets him do something to opposing Alakazams and Eggys and not worry about running out of Psychic in the hopes of a Special Drop.

Charizard
-Hyper Beam
-Earthquake
-Swords Dance
-Fire Blast

Ahhhh yes, Charizard. I envision him as my late-game sweeper, seeing as how he does just that with paralysis support. Recently changed back to the standard set again--I'm trying to think of a move over Body Slam (that isn't Hyper Beam) for Stadium. I'll use H-Beam competitively, and probably Submission for Stadium lol. Decided to use him as a lead against other commoners like Jynx and Eggy.

Well, there yah have it. Generally the theme will be to paralyze/incapacitate everything so that Charizard can bring fiery death to the remainder of the team. While "paralyzing the whole team" is the goal of most teams, 5 out of 6 can inflict it (Body Slams, T-wave, Stun Spore), I have Sleep support, and Rhydon+Exeggutor+Charizard take advantage of it extremely well.

Rate/Hate/Whatever please

 

[133tSneasel]

Exegutor: I really like Explosion on Eggy over Mega Drain, but then that limits it too one attack, I think the standard didn't have mega drain, though. you would go Sleep, or Stun/Mega Drain/Psychic/Explosion.

Starmie: Blizzard or Ice Beam, I think Blizzard was the standard to hit Grass types with, other then that it's fine

Everything else looks good, props on using Charizard, I've seen Hyper Beam in place of Body Slam, but that's after everything has been Paralyzed or put to sleep.

 

[Dormin]

Yeah, I think I'll trial Eggy without Explosion, and once I've learned my lesson I'll use it :). I was worried about Starmie w/o Blizzard, so I think I'll replace surf with Blizzard for those grassers. I have considered Hyper Beam on Charizard, seeing as how he comes in late-game and all my other pokes can paralyze for him. I just figured I could bring him in sometime before then to paraslam if need be, but then the surprise is lost. For Stadium I'll go with Body Slam, but I'll switch it to H-Beam for online.

Thanks for the feedback, good to know the team looks alright! I've never used a team w/o Charizard, and he has yet to fail me. Any other advice is appreciated!

 

[Pocket]

For Stadium, Charizard could use Fire Spin instead of Hyper Beam; whittle down the opponent's HP until they are in SDed EQ or STAB Fire Blast KO range. A Body Slam from Charizard is puny. If you don't like Fire Spin, go Slash instead for a better hit-and-run move.

Exeggutor would want Explosion, since Chansey could really wreck your team by easily switching into Alakazam, Starmie, and Exeggutor and start paralyzing stuff. If you still want Mega Drain, I'd take out Golem for Rhydon, which 2hkos Chansey and takes advantage of paralysis better than Golem.

Alternatively, Starmie could be a deadly sweeper with a STAB Surf / Hydro Pump over T-Wave. Once Chansey is eliminated by Tauros, Rhydon or Golem, Exeggutor, etc, I can guarantee that none of the remaining foes could withstand a combination of Ice, Electricity, and STAB water. Tauros gets 2hkoed by Hydro Pump and Zam is 3hkoed. Alakazam and Exeggutor should be plenty of par support. It all boils down to you wanting an additional T-Wave support or the extra offense.

 

[Dormin]

Yeah, I think I'll replace Sleep Powder with Explosion on Exeggutor, as I still want Mega Drain. I think I will change Charizard's set to Fire Spin, EQ, Slash, and Fire Blast, as I have found that set-up time is hard to come by for Charizard in RBY. Hmmm, the sweeper Starmie looks promising as well--there have been many times when a STAB H20 attack could have come in handy.

As for Rhydon replacing Golem, I agree there as well--Golem just doesn't hit hard enough and I could use a team that takes more advantage of paralysis.

Thanks Pocket, it looks like I'm going to implement all of your suggestions :)

Any more suggestions/reviews of changes are welcomed.

 

[Vineon]

Fire Spin is a disaster of a move in my book. Don't expect to ever sweep anything with it. Theres just nothing saving you from its awful accuracy.

if the intention is to have a wrap sweeper, I can only tolerate agility dragonite

 

[Mekkah]

Normally I would recommend HEAVILY against Fire Spin because it unfreezes Pokemon, but besides Tauros nothing even has a chance to freeze anything, but it's still very awful. Stick to Swords Dance/Body Slam/Earthquake/Fire Blast if anything, the only other alternative being Hyper Beam in my opinion.

 

[GreenPikachu]

fire spin is maybe usable on moltres, if only because its movepool is complete garbage. charizard, however, gets some pretty nice options. don't waste a slot on fire spin please. :(

also, in my opinion (take it for what it's worth), there is not enough status on this team. No sleep moves, 2 auto-paralyzing moves, and 2 30% para moves. Most rby teams have almost double that. i'd really like to see a sleeper somewhere. You're essentially putting your team into a 6-5 whole without a sleeper.

 

[Dormin]

Hmmm, I'm getting a few mixed messages here I guess. With such strong opposition against Fire Spin I'll go back to the set I had before. Also, I had previously had Doublepowder on Exeggutor w/o Explosion, and the standard BoltBeam Starmie with T-wave+Recover. Was that better before? I'll put Sleep Powder over Stun Spore on Exeggutor for now.

I kinda want Surf/Hydro Pump over Blizzard on Starmie--as Pocket previously stated, Hydro Pump 2HKOs Tauros and 3HKOs Alakazam, for what its worth.

Thanks for the rates guys, I still need an opinion on the sets I had here before--I'll put the most of the old stuff up for now.

Revisions made--back to a lot of the sets I had originally :)

 

[GreenPikachu]

well the standard eggy set is double powder/explosion/psychic. if you really WANT mega drain, than the one powder you should keep, imo, is sleep powder, since you have no other sleepers.

also, the standard starmie set is thunderbolt/blizzard/twave/recover. some people like to try surf/hydro pump over blizzard, but then starmie is worthless against eggy, and eggy is more difficult to bring down than alakazam/tauros (typically).

also, i don't see where you were told to use fire spin. pocket suggested it for stadium, but even then it's dumb. body slam is fine. as most others have said though, hyper beam is a good option.

 

[Dormin]

Oh, well, in addition to Pocket's advice for stadium, I've seen a few people recommend Fire Spin on him in other threads. I concur with the general sentiment of crappy accuracy--70% is absolutely worthless in what I consider to be a haxier generation . It has been replaced with Body Slam for early-mid game switches on, say, Jynx/Eggy that have activated Sleep Clause, in the hope I can paralyze the incoming Starmie/whatever. Stadium will probably see the use of Body Slam, but I think Hyper Beam will be awesome competitively--after one Swords Dance he has the most powerful Hyper Beam in the game, and he is arguably the best SDer in RBY, with the fastest speed of all SDancers (minus Scyther, who is lol).

The sarcasm I detect in "WANT" makes me think you suggest dropping Mega Drain on Eggy? I am just uncomfortable having two 1 attack users on one team, and Mega Drain helps for what little recovery it gives I think. Though I would love to hear your opinion on this--from what I have seen browsing the Indigo Plateau history, you are quite an experienced player. Love the sig btw lol

 

[GreenPikachu]

well, if you're worried about having 2 one attack pokemon on a team, change it. but the pokemon to change is alakazam, not eggy. dropping reflect for seismic toss would be much more worth it than dropping a powder for mega drain on eggy. that way, kazam can handle other kazam and eggy more easily, and your own eggy can double powder AND explode.

 

[Pocket]

Sorry, Dormin, I take big risks when it comes to accuracy, and I pay for it half of the times. So Vineon, Mekkah, and green pikachu are right in proclaiming that Fire Spin is a horrible trap move. I focused on the trapping aspects of the move and how that would improve the Charizard's chance of sweeping, but I neglected to mention the great improbability of this happening (although lots of improbable situations has occurred regularly in netbattle). For consistent results, I'd avoid Fire Spin, too. Body Slam appears effective here, since his other option, an unstabbed Slash, doesn't leave a lasting mark as a Body Slam's 30 % par. I have to warn you, though, that Charizard must now adopt hit-and-run more than set-up-and-sweep, because he lacks the power from Hyper Beam.

 

[Dormin]

Thanks for explaining Pocket--I wasn't ignorant of Fire Spin unpredictability, but I recently discovered it's not my play style. You brought up a great point with Body Slam over Hyper Beam on Zard though. I want to keep Charizard as a end sweeper, not for hit and run. Hyper Beam will be used competitively for sure, so I'll probably change that in the first post. For Stadium I've been using Body Slam with lackluster preformance--I might use Submission/Double-edge over it to be cool. Hitting those normals and Water/Ice users for an SDed super effective Submission might help in a pinch

I tossed around the idea of Seismic Toss on Kazam for awhile, and I was afraid of running out of Psychic PP in the first place, so that will probably be changed. DoublePowder seems to be standard on Eggy for a reason, so that will be implemented as well.

Well, hopefully this is starting to look solid-ish. Remaining thoughts/suggestions?

 

[Pocket]

Submission is good for normals, but that is it; Body Slam's better accuracy, power, and paralysis effect makes it a more useful move than Submission against other pokemon. In fact, two of Charizard's STAB Fire Blast would do much more than 1 turn of Swords Dance and a Submission on most normal types (Tauros and Snorlax), barring Chansey.

For Stadium, I'd go with Slash. Stadium is more fast-paced, so Charizard should dish out damage with Slash and Fire Blast, quickly withdraw, and finish the game with SD EQs later on. There aren't much better alternatives over Body Slam other than Slash really; Slash is a 3hko on Chansey, just like Submission, and it hits water much harder, too. All other normal moves like D-Edge and Mega Kick, pales in comparison to Slash's 100% accuracy and critical hits.

 

[Dormin]

Hmmm, very true. I guess I've just been brainwashed into Swords Dance+Slash on the same moveset is a major no no at all times. I agree with Slash for Stadium--my other pokes can paralyze for me and Charizard can come in and make some good hits with slash, prior to wrapping up with SD if need be. Thanks!

EDIT: On second thought, Body Slam is probably a better hit-and-run move on Charizard than Slash. Slash still does relatively mediocre damage coming from a 266 attack, and Starmie will just recover it off every time. Body Slam, on the other hand, gets stronger with an SD and provides a lasting effect in the form of paralysis. I think I'd rather cripple-and-run in this case, so Body Slam it is.

Anyway, thanks for advice Pocket--I'm glad so many good battlers took interest in this rmt :)

Concerns/comments/criticisms/clarifications are still welcome