Gen 3 RMT (Trying Offense for a change)

[kd24]

I wanted to try out netbattle again and I did pretty good getting a 15-1 record this morning. The team was just me trying to make an offensive team to combat the defensive teams you find in Adv.

Team:

Aerodactyl (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Rock Slide

This was the best lead I could find but it does its job perfectly. I wanted something that could easily threaten Zapdos out (or OHKO if it stays in), a decent way to beat Salamence, and a lead that could be Tar and Dodrio> Aerodactyl is a Pokemon that simply forces you out because no lead is safe against it. The team revolves somewhat around getting Aerodactyl back in safely at the end of the game, by removing his counters before that time. Double-Edge is a strong attack with Rock Head, and it actually ohkos some stuff like Alakazam that my other attacks would fail to do. Hidden Power Flying is for stuff like Sceptile and Venusaur leads since I want any and all stalling out of the way quickly.

Magneton @ Leftovers
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 72 HP / 184 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt

This thing goes with Aerodactyl like butter goes to bread. Skarmory is probably the most common counter to Aerodactyl so when they switch in, Magneton quickly comes in. Magneton also provides much needed paralysis support so Heracross and Tyranitar can be threats lategame. Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice may be replaced for Thunder and Hidden Power Grass, just for Swampert (who has been giving me problems) and other stuff that is 2hkoed buy Thunder. I could even mix and match and use HP Grass and Thunderbolt. Substitute scouts for Forretress Earthquake as well as to see what their switch in is. Magneton also takes care of bulky waters like Suicune and Swampert who wreck Aerodactyl.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 40 HP / 216 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Surf
- Thunderbolt

This is as close as I come to a Swampert counter -_-. Starmie is a pretty solid attacker for the team, tying in some loose ends as well as opening up sweeps (Losing your dragons and zapdos to starmie will help Heracross sweep everything). Surf is for Tyranitar and Blaziken. Ice Beam is to complete the coverage circle and is pretty helpful for wierd stuff like Breloom who can give me problems if not handled correctly. Recover is for general healing purposes and is a staple on any Starmie set. I went past Rapid Spin for a reason and that is no one on this team cares about Spikes (maybe Swampert) and every Spiker there is will already be subdued at that point. This team is also about Speed (And I mean pace of the battle, not speed of the team).

Heracross (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Brick Break
- Megahorn
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

This is why I love Adv. Heracross can completely rip the game open with 295 Speed and Swords Dance. Heracross also becomes something almost impossible to take down if set up correctly (All his counters should be eliminated at this point). Brick Break, Megahorn, and Rock Slide give pretty much perfect coverage (iirc only the Nido family will resist it) so that leaves me in a pretty good position. Rock Slide is almost uneeded (but it has helped against a Zapdos that somehow survived) and for an unexpected kill).

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Spd / 188 SAtk
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Crunch
- Focus Punch
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt / Fire Blast / Ice Beam

Boah was already on my last team and he seemed to fit well enough. he actually did as he gave me a decent Dugtrio counter (I can switch into anything but Earthquake and even Earthquake can only 2hko at best). Crunch and Thunderbolt is just for helping with Heracross again as well as taking out Skarmory is Magneton took a fall early. However I am considering Fire Blast (Forretress) and Ice Beam (Breloom and Donphan). I definitely need help on that. This also happens to be my Houndoom counter if it lacks HP Grass (Sadly they usually do =/).

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Roar
- Surf

Not exactly an offensive Pokemon but still fits into the team rather well. If Salamence does get a Dragon Dance in, Swampert is always here to help force him back. DDTar and Metagross are also two big problems that are easily taken out by Swampert. Swampert also helps beats Baton Pass chains (Something else has to take the Smeargle Spore though). Ice Beam, Surf, and Earthquake also has amazing coverage so it helps with the attacking aspect.


The team has done well but I really think it lacks something. Any suggestions?

 

[Cerivious]

Aerodactyl (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Rock Slide

This was the best lead I could find but it does its job perfectly. I wanted something that could easily threaten Zapdos out (or OHKO if it stays in), a decent way to beat Salamence, and a lead that could be Tar and Dodrio> Aerodactyl is a Pokemon that simply forces you out because no lead is safe against it. The team revolves somewhat around getting Aerodactyl back in safely at the end of the game, by removing his counters before that time. Double-Edge is a strong attack with Rock Head, and it actually ohkos some stuff like Alakazam that my other attacks would fail to do. Hidden Power Flying is for stuff like Sceptile and Venusaur leads since I want any and all stalling out of the way quickly.

Apart from not understanding how Aerodactyl will beat a Tyranitar lead one on one, this seems fine. On a side note, iirc all of Aerodactyl's attacks will OHKO an Alakazam if it's using the standard spread, including the weakest Earthquake.

Magneton @ Leftovers
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 72 HP / 184 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt

This thing goes with Aerodactyl like butter goes to bread. Skarmory is probably the most common counter to Aerodactyl so when they switch in, Magneton quickly comes in. Magneton also provides much needed paralysis support so Heracross and Tyranitar can be threats lategame. Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice may be replaced for Thunder and Hidden Power Grass, just for Swampert (who has been giving me problems) and other stuff that is 2hkoed buy Thunder. I could even mix and match and use HP Grass and Thunderbolt. Substitute scouts for Forretress Earthquake as well as to see what their switch in is. Magneton also takes care of bulky waters like Suicune and Swampert who wreck Aerodactyl.

I cannot see how this Magneton can hope to beat a Forretress carrying Earthquake. Forretress isn't going to be switching on you, and you 2HKO with Thunderbolt while Earthquake is an OHKO. Also, Skarmory is definitely not the most common switch in to an Aerodactyl as Rock Slide may be as low as a 3HKO on it, and with flinches here and there, Skarmory isn't going to be too happy to keep switching in.

Before I go off topic, HP Ice on Magneton is anything but useful. Things like Salamence aren't going to be switching in on you, rather Blisseys and Regices and when they realise that you lack HP Grass, Swamperts. Thus, I recommend either HP Fire to take care of Forretress (and Scizor if it lacks Reversal) because the purpose of Magneton is to trap Steels to open up the game for something else, and not to sweep by itself.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 40 HP / 216 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Surf
- Thunderbolt

This is as close as I come to a Swampert counter -_-. Starmie is a pretty solid attacker for the team, tying in some loose ends as well as opening up sweeps (Losing your dragons and zapdos to starmie will help Heracross sweep everything). Surf is for Tyranitar and Blaziken. Ice Beam is to complete the coverage circle and is pretty helpful for wierd stuff like Breloom who can give me problems if not handled correctly. Recover is for general healing purposes and is a staple on any Starmie set. I went past Rapid Spin for a reason and that is no one on this team cares about Spikes (maybe Swampert) and every Spiker there is will already be subdued at that point. This team is also about Speed (And I mean pace of the battle, not speed of the team).

I do not like attacking Starmie for one reason. It is going to be met straight up with a special wall like Blissey or Regice. And this version of Starmie, contrary to your believe, will probably not open up holes for Heracross. Dragons will switch out at the mere possibility of Ice Beam, and the Resttalk Zapdos variant that runs amok now can easily beat this. And no, this does not beat Swampert one on one either, with each Earthquake from a minimum attack Swampert doing 50% tp 59% and your Tyranitar's Sandstream canceling Leftovers out, you will probably be praying that it isn't going to crit you instead of killing it.

Instead of this, I would recommend a Zapdos with HP Grass, effectively solving your Swampert problems. Since you are looking into offensiveness, you probably would not want a Resttalk version, although it's recommended for support against Swampert. Alternatively, you can either choose to make it a Thunderwave variant, which would provide more paralysis support for Heracross, or even a Subpassing/Agilipassing one, both of which would be enjoyed by Heracross and Tyranitar.

Heracross (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Brick Break
- Megahorn
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

This is why I love Adv. Heracross can completely rip the game open with 295 Speed and Swords Dance. Heracross also becomes something almost impossible to take down if set up correctly (All his counters should be eliminated at this point). Brick Break, Megahorn, and Rock Slide give pretty much perfect coverage (iirc only the Nido family will resist it) so that leaves me in a pretty good position. Rock Slide is almost uneeded (but it has helped against a Zapdos that somehow survived) and for an unexpected kill).

Seems alright, although if you are going to use Thunderwave on Magneton, change the nature to Adamant as it will be faster anyway.269 to 295 doesn't contain a lot of metagame threats anyway, and Adamant gives it a huge punch in Attack. This goes for double if you decide to use a Thunderwave Zapdos as well.

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Spd / 188 SAtk
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Crunch
- Focus Punch
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt / Fire Blast / Ice Beam

Boah was already on my last team and he seemed to fit well enough. he actually did as he gave me a decent Dugtrio counter (I can switch into anything but Earthquake and even Earthquake can only 2hko at best). Crunch and Thunderbolt is just for helping with Heracross again as well as taking out Skarmory is Magneton took a fall early. However I am considering Fire Blast (Forretress) and Ice Beam (Breloom and Donphan). I definitely need help on that. This also happens to be my Houndoom counter if it lacks HP Grass (Sadly they usually do =/).

I have no idea what you mean by Boah as a Dugtrio counter. I assume you calculated with Jolly Dugtrio, which still does a hefty 80%+ on you and none of your attacks can OHKO save for Ice Beam if you elect to use it.

If you chose to run HP Fire on Magneton which handles Forretress, I would say change this to a Viltar (Sub/RockSlide/FocusPunch/HP Bug or Double Edge or something). This will take care of the physical loophole opened by Magneton/Zapdos as well.

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Roar
- Surf

Not exactly an offensive Pokemon but still fits into the team rather well. If Salamence does get a Dragon Dance in, Swampert is always here to help force him back. DDTar and Metagross are also two big problems that are easily taken out by Swampert. Swampert also helps beats Baton Pass chains (Something else has to take the Smeargle Spore though). Ice Beam, Surf, and Earthquake also has amazing coverage so it helps with the attacking aspect.

Roar is not going to beat a Baton Passing chain, that's what Ingrain is for. I also do not like Roar on Swampert as most of the stat-uppers it's going to be switching on can just be killed easily (DDmence, DDtar, Agiligross, most DDGyaras have Taunt anyway). Instead, I like Protect in that moveslot to scout for CBers, especially CBGross for Explosion.

My personal preference is Hydro Pump over Surf, for the sole reason that you can kill off a Giga Drain Gengar when at full health/close to full health, that is of course when it hits. Another reason is that you can 2HKO Skarmory who might want to set up on you. Although many are put off by the accuracy, 80% isn't to shabby in my opinion, give it a try and see how it works for you.

 

[gorm]

295+ cm recover psychic hp grass celebi kinda beats the whole deal though

 

[Pocket]

Since you have so many Pokemon that are free Dugtrio meals, Ibeam on Boah is a perfect bait to take it down. You miss the Tbolt support to take down Skarmory and Waters, but you got Magneton.

HP Fire is fine on Magneton, although HP Grass prevents it from being totally walled by Swampert. With Swampert fearing HP Grass, you'll have a better chance utilizing T-Wave, which would hit other electric counters, such as Celebi, Blissey, Regice, Snorlax, and Zapdos.

 

[kd24]

I didnt mean Boah was a counter to dugtrio, I just meant that he could fare somewhat well as a revenge killer since unless it Earthquakes it will have to switch or die. And Earthquake wont ohko anyway.

I am putting Ice Beam on Tyranitar now.

I am putting HP Grass on Magneton.

Yeah gorm, I faced a Celebi like that and it really gave me trouble. I have to try and take it out quickly but it does give me a lot of trouble =/

Forretress has not been a problem so far so HP fire on magneton doesnt seem so helpful.

 

[Pocket]

Dugtrio is never countered without having a faster Dugtrio, Porygon2, Trace Gardevoir, or anything else that could trap and kill it. I am just saying that IBeam on Ttar is possibly the most reliable way to stop Dugtrio from decimating your team.

Another thing you may want to try is MoPCross. It provides Heracross with Substitute protection (sub > brick break), and combined with salac activation, Dugtrio may never lay its hands on her. Note that you prolly want Adamant so you can sweep after the salac is activated and also Swarm Nature. Even with Sandstream, once Skarmory is gone Heracross sweeps.

I honestly do not find Starmie all that useful other than a quick revenge kill on CBers, Gengars, and DDTars, and a good player should never have their offense taken down if they have a counter to sponge Starmie's attacks. You already have a much effective revenge killer in the name of Aerodactyl. I would use this slot to deal with some of the problems mentioned in this thread (cerivious also advised this on his post).

Swampert (or water in general), Houndoom, and Celebi gives you trouble. CM Raikou, Gengar, Regice, viltar, CBTar, Heracross and other Fighting Pokemon, Dugtrio, and perhaps even Hard hitting CB Normals (as I’ve seen quite a few in NBattle =x) all seems to give this delicate team trouble.

On the DP Board, there has been a thread about the many practicalities in the OU metagame for utilizing Hariyama, and I think the fighter fits here, too. I am thinking of Thick Fat Hariyama with Rest Talk. This would provide a pokemon to absorb annoying status from Houndoom, Regice, and Gengar, while resisting their signature STAB moves. It resisting Megahorn and Rock Slide makes it a possible switch-in against Heracross and CBTar, as well. However, since Heracross and CBTar still hits it hard even with all 252 HP / 252 Def Impish Hariyama, gearing towards its Sp Def to sponge Gengar and Regice is more important imo.

Here, 435 HP / 240 (max) Def / 206 Sp Def and Impish nature provide Hariyama with enough endurance to absorb 3 TBolts from 394 SAtk Gengar in the Sandstream (30% ~ 36%) and takes less from Focus Punches of 251 Atk Gengar in the same situation. This makes for a great Gengar, Houndoom, and Regice counter. Remaining few EVs went to Speed to go first against Relaxed / Brave / Quiet Swamperts. I am thinking of Cross Chop, Rest, Sleep Talk, Rock Slide

Hariyama survives 2 CB Megahorns (35 ~ 42 %) and 1 Swords Dance-boosted and Swarm-boosted Megahorn (71 ~ 84%), and it also has a great chance of surviving 2 Swords Dance-boosted (but not Swarm-boosted) Megahorns (48 ~ 56 %) w/o Sandstream and 1 CB Focus Punch (89 ~ 100%). So in many cases you can rely on Hariyama to switch into Heracross. Being able to take a hit from a MopCross after all of the bug’s boosts (hopefully 1 SD, 1 Swarm, and 1 Salac), is a great thing, since it has a chance to retaliate with a KO using Rock Slide.

Against a Tyranitar it can survive 2 1-Dragon Dance / 1 CB EQ (42 ~ 49%), 1 boosted D-Edge (50 ~ 59%), 1 CB Focus Punch (63 ~ 74 %), and 2 viltar’s Focus Punches (42 ~ 49%). This is assuming the worst case scenario with Adamant max Atk Ttar. Hariyama therefore makes good enough defenses against Ttar, especially against DDTar, despite being specially oriented.

Hariyama also has the capabilities of surviving Swampert’s moves. EQ is only 27 ~ 31%; Surf is similar range as EQ; Hydro Pump is 34 ~ 40 % however, which 3HKOs under Sandstream. Your Swampert should really have Hydro Pump to not only 2HKO Forretress and Weezing, both pokemon that can ruin this team, but also to hit opposing Swamperts hard.

Hariyama can also scare off CB Normals if it switches in at the same time. You might want to lose 3 pts in Spd (Hari still outruns the standard Swampert spread even without them) and add 3 Pts into Atk to aim for an average OHKO on a Tauros (assuming no Intimidate). Since most CB Normals carry D-Edge, the residual damage may take care of being short of an OHKO, but it never hurts to take precautions. D-Edges from even Slaking won't take down Hariyama, so that's reassuring.

As for your Fighter, CM Celebi, CM Suicune, CM Raikou, Swampert, and Dugtrio problems. A Dugtrio of your own may help this. Since you want to take out Raikou, you want to make Duggy Jolly.
~CM Celebi: Even from Jolly Dugtrio 404 HP / 308 Def Celebi takes 65 ~ 76 % from HP Bug. If Celebi has 70 % of its health or less it’s knocked out.
~CM Raikou: safest way is to sacrifice Aerodactyl / Hariyama / Swampert and to switchly safe into Duggy for the kill.
~Dugtrio: Hopefully yours is faster
~Fighters: Mostly CBed or Rest Talk. They are relatively few to begin with, the only blatantly used one being Heracross. Hopefully you can pressure MoPCross from becoming too powerful before it has its salac + swarm activated so that Hariyama can dispatch it. Otherwise Dugtrio could kill it. Most CBers would also fall down to this.
~Rest Talking Fighters and Suicune and Swampert should hopefully be a MoPCross bait to sweep. Not saying that you should switch your Heracross into one, but I wouldn’t be in a particular hurry to dispatch them. Either way a combination of Magneton and Dugtrio should dispatch one of them.
~Against Roar Suicune, the best you got is your Roar Swampert. A combination of Roar and EQ on switch-ins, and perhaps Magneton throwing TBolt before it downs would put it in a range for Dugtrio to kill.

I suggested lots of revenge killing in the end, but that usually what happens when focusing a lot on setting up your own offense in sacrifice of covering your defenses. However, it does work when you manage your pokemon’s health optimally. Hariyama and Dugtrio should go over Starmie and Tyranitar, since it is apparent that the main players are MoPCross (strongly advise it), Magneton, Aerodactyl, and Swampert. Ultimately setting up a sweep for MoPCross is the key, and Aerodactyl and Magneton are great complementary offense since they dispatch Flying and Steel Pokemon that stops Hera cold. Megahorn and Rock Slide are resisted by Fighting Types, but resistance doesn’t matter when they don’t pack the Defense; Machamp, Hariyama, and Hitmontop aren’t common anyways. With Aerodactyl and Dugtrio revenge killing, it shouldn’t be too hard earning a sweep.

So my bottom line is this: Hariyama for bolstering threats against Ttar, Heracross, Gengar, Houndoom, Regice, and somewhat Swampert; kill most CM threats and Heracross with Dugtrio; have Heracross set up on Swampert or on a sleeping Suicune once it’s sweep-ready. It’s a risky way of winning and it would take a lot of practice, but I think this team could make it happen.