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Gen 4 RMT

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Twisted Kneebar, Jul 8, 2014.

  1. Twisted Kneebar

    Twisted Kneebar

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
    212
    So here is a team I've created about 2 months ago. It keeps me in a comfy top 20 spot when I'm active, and when I'm playing really good or get lucky, I'm around top 15-10. I considered it balanced at first but when I played versus some dude who ran full stall we were talking and he called my team "semi-stall" which is probably the best way to describe my team.

    It started it all off when I was looking at the Gyarados analysis and saw the mono-attacker set. I recalled a time where I struggled mightily against it. I wanted to build a team around it since I figured it could be like a physical version of CroCune. The analysis advised against it and they were right. It is a wall first and a sweeper second. Still, I created one of my more successful teams thanks to it, and I do get off a late game sweep sometimes with it, mostly against full stall. It's an excellent stall breaker. Every team member supports it in some way because originally this was to set up a Gyarados sweep. These days a Gyarados sweep is an after thought and I tend to play by racking up damage, then killing off the weakened pokemon by revenge kill or switching in something. This team has an unintentional FWG core.

    Anyways, lets start.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    I was always a Banded T-Tar type of guy but gave this one a chance. Its purpose was to kill Starmie (And my god, what an excellent job it does), Rotom, and general revenge killing. I love this guy just because of how easily it handles Starmie. 4 SpD EV's because I like to switch him into special attacks.
    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Toxic
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    Wow. This guy surprised me the most. I never used this set before and was far more excited to use Gyarados and Shaymin sets that I hadn't tried before but this one is EASILY the best out of the three. The strategy is for Heatran to switch on to something, force a switch, and set up a sub. Most Heatran switches are bulky waters that abhor Toxic. I tend to kill off bulky waters, opposing Heatran, Dragonite, and Tyranitar with this set.

    This guy is one of the most important members of my team especially since I don't have clear cut answers to Dragon Dance Tyranitar and Dragonite. The Toxic, Stealth Rocks, and Sandstorm has prevented me from being swept by any of them, I can't honestly remember a time I got swept by them versus someone who didn't hax me.
    [​IMG]
    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 96 SpD / 8 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    Ahh, Gyarados. I much prefer it as a defensive pokemon. I built the whole team around this guy. These days it is a mixed wall first. I'll kill off all my guys against stall players, assuming opposing Rotom, Starmie, and Leech Seed Celebi are gone. This guy easily handles mix Flygon and Nite, though to a lesser degree thanks to his resistance to Water and higher power. I like to get off Intimidate to force switches or to cushion the impact for my other team members. Can take hits from both sides of the spectrum. I just found out the other day that not even Sub Split Gengar likes to fight this guy.

    4 EV's are taken from HP and put into Defense to greater increase physical bulk and to switch into SR 5 times. I have a spinner but those rooted in reality know you're not always going to get it off immediately and this guy switches into a lot.
    [​IMG]
    Shaymin @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 SpA / 180 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Seed Flare
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earth Power
    Shaymin is cool. It was my last member to be added. I needed one more member who was synergetic with the rest of my team, handles Gyarados, and could support my team. Celebi fits the bill but has a ton of weaknesses, mainly a nasty Pursuit weakness and has a tougher time versus Blissey because it doesn't have the great fire power that Seed Flare has. Shaymin does not fear Tyranitar in general or Scizor's Pursuit.

    I'm running the classic Leech Seed set but with 3 attacks, for extra insurance versus the Dragonite who would be a potentially huge issue without that extra Ice attack. I don't need Sub because I'm protected against status with Natural Cure and don't care for protection against Seismic Toss. Overall, the few times I use HP Ice, justify me keeping it there.

    This guy mainly switches in versus resisted attacks, Gyarados, Tyranitar, and Blissey. The idea is to Leech Seed something, and switch in my Forry or Gyarados to keep them healthy. It also helps to beat Stat Uppers and keep the damage going. This is EV'ed to outrun non-Scarf Heatran.
    [​IMG]
    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    Good old Blissey. A staple on most of my teams. I'm using the classic D/P EV's. I like the old EV set because even when it is super effective, it doesn't always KO opposing mon's. This gives it that extra punch to KO 4x weak Dragon's in one hit and break though offensive Sub Rotom's, who usually put in a very small investment in HP to let the Sub survive an uninvested Ice Beam / Flamethrower. It's also nice to put heavy damage on the rare Dugtrio.

    IIRC the EV spread gives only a slightly greater Special Bulk than the 252 HP / 252 Def spread but without compromising its attack. This is a special sponge first and foremost, I'll take the slightly weaker defense to better be able to take on Special threats. Plus, Gyarados is often aiding it with the Intimidate drop, artificially boosting its defense.

    Blissey's job is to sponge special attacks and pass Wishes to other Pokemon. Everyone appreciates it but it is mainly for Forry and Gyarados. Ice Beam since Dragonite and Flygon like to switch in. Protect also helps me stall guys out, and scout the constant Choice users that like to switch in to Blissey. Overall, Blissey sees the least action but is important nonetheless.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Payback
    - Explosion
    I remember seeing a lot of great players using this guy. I personally never found him great to use, mostly because it's just not that durable(for me). Without a reliable recovery move, it slowly gets chipped away. Even though it takes physical attacks well 1) It is susceptible to spikes, and is only neutral versus rocks. 2) Its special bulk is awful, god forbid I get hit by a Surf and lose 50% of my health.

    Well with Leech Seed and Wish, I have found a way to keep this guy alive the entire match, making entry hazards much less threatening. I like to Payback instead of Spin the first time, if I can tell I'm facing a stall player. I love this spread because not even bulky Rotom likes to switch in on Payback. It also gives that extra umph with Explosion. I chose Explosion as my final insurance vs set up sweepers or to just go out with a bang if I'm low on health. Forry spins mainly so Gyarados can switch in repeatedly.



    Well, I posted this team because it is good but I think it can use some improvement. My main issue, and this is where I need you guys help, is that I'm missing on the important Rock resist. That is my biggest issue. I've even struggled against a CB Aero. The only reason my lack of a Rock resist isn't THAT bad is because Stone Edge is inaccurate and has low PP. My dilemma is that everyone has their own niche in this team. If I switch out Forry for say, a Hippowdon, I can set up Rocks and resist Rock attacks but I cant spin. If I use Hitmontop, I can spin and resist Rock, but I don't see anywhere else I can put on Rocks.

    My second biggest weakness is a personality flaw, actually. I just go with whatever pops up in my head first, whether battling or posting, I don't usually think things through, which means my rank can go really low out of nowhere but that isn't something that can be improved here.

    I also have an odd HP Electric Tentacruel weakness. I play around it and have only faced it against one guy but man it is an odd weakness.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2014
  2. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
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    1,690
    Your team will have issues beating Tyranitar, especially Band and Dragon Dance variants. You have a ton of set up opportunities for the DDer and nothing to stop it at all, while the Bander will just kill everything on your team. Mixed Dragonite always forces 50/50s when it gets in on something slower so it can potentially kill something on your team that will allow something else to sweep. I think Hippowdon would fit well on your team. It also allows you to use Spikes on Forre which is better because Forre doesn't do much on all the switches it forces anyway. Specially Defensive Hippo over Blissey is not a bad idea. It handles a ton of Special attackers easily while also beating just about every Rock spammer there is. The main problem that switch makes is that you're weaker to Waters, but changing Shaymin to a Specially Defense Celebi can fix this issue and gives your team a nice secondary Fighting resist which you will probably need against Breloom since your Gyarados lacks Roar.

    Try Protect on Forretress over Explosion. It gives Forretress much more longevity which I find better than Explosion's ability to take out annoying things on passive teams like yours. The extra scouting is great against things like Trick Rotom-A, for example.
  3. Twisted Kneebar

    Twisted Kneebar

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
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    I usually find Band variants far scarier than DD variants because the immediate power and bulk. MixNite is a non-issue, Gyarados handles it well and it will damage itself out.

    I will definitely try out the Protect and Sp. Def Hippo suggestions. I'm a bit iffy on a Sp. Def Celebi though. It has a pursuit weakness and weak firepower. I think with 252 HP Shaymin can take water attacks just fine, as can Gyarados.

    I'll try to report back with results whenever I get some matches (which might be never because gen 4 is fucking slooow)

    Edit: K, got a few matches in. The water weakness is fucking serious. I'm hesitant to use a Sp. Def Grass because water types often carry Ice Beam. But I have 3 water weaknesses and a pseudo water weakness in Forry, and his inability to take Surf/Hydro Pump.

    As for Protect on Forry... I certainly miss Explosion but Pokemon is a game of trade offs. If you cover one thing, you're trading it for a new weakness. I missed Explosion earlier but just utilized Protect in great effect and made a dude forfeit.


    Also, I'm considering a Donphan in Forry's place. I've used it before and thanks to its weaknesses and lack of resistances, it feels like his special bulk is even more pathetic than Forry but he'll add a Rock resist without dramatically changing my team. I won't expect much though.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
  4. BKC

    BKC autumn leaves
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion

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    try bulky breloom over shaymin since right now you are brutally 6-0ed by dd/cb tar and lo aerodactyl.

    on a team like this it is a waste to not use (toxic) spikes on forre (who is much better with careful max/max) when you have 2 of the best sr mons, heatran (who is ridiculously out of place with an offensive set on a team like this, make it spdef) and blissey.

    roar > dd on gyara and you have a good set.

    jirachees hippo + spdef cele > bliss + shaymin is also worth trying.
    Jaiho likes this.
  5. george182

    george182

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2009
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    Just use Gyro ball on Forretress over Payback/Explosion to fix the t-tar issue.

    I'm more worried about the huge DD Gyarados weaknesses, which I don't see an immediate fix for.
  6. Twisted Kneebar

    Twisted Kneebar

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
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    The thing is, I've tried Roar on Gyarados but since I'm not running full stall, it doesn't benefit me. It's better to keep DD to beat other people who play full stall.

    I absolutely love the bulky breloom suggestion, though. What moveset and EV spread would you recommend? I'm thinking Leech Seed but the mono attack bothers me.

    I was thinking of adding Rachi but didnt know where to put him, the other day. I have a lot of stuff to test out.

    I have several lines of defense versus Gyarados
    1) Stealth Rock, sandstorm
    2) Gyara loves switching in versus Heatran. I love subbing and Toxic versus them.
    3)Shaymin crushes variants without Ice Fang and Bounce and with Leech Seed, Ice Fang isnt that scary. If I know they're running Bounce, I switch T-Tar and Stone Edge. Ice Fang, I let Forry Payback on them
    4) My own Gyarados Intimidate if they get too many Dances

    I'll usually wear them down with ease. It's powerful pokemon with Rock STAB that I'm afraid of.

    Thanks for the help guys
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
  7. Twisted Kneebar

    Twisted Kneebar

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
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    Peaking at 8 :heart:

    I honestly chalk it to favorable match making, I've gotten higher before when I got dudes who match up well with my team. I'll probably go down later today. Just want to bump for an update on that, and that Breloom is working well with the team.
  8. MoxieInfinite

    MoxieInfinite

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
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    Peaking 8th means nothing. I made top 10 after 11 games. It's easy as shit.

    Assuming PS ladder. PO's is still awful too though.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
  9. Twisted Kneebar

    Twisted Kneebar

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
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    Yeah, in these old dead generations it is easy to rise (also easy to fall)

    My rating shot up after beating 2 top 10 players and a bunch of middle of the pack guys (1250-1299s)

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