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Romance Mafia Postgame

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by vonFiedler, Sep 25, 2010.

  1. vonFiedler

    vonFiedler Is she still looking at the sunset, now long vanished?
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor

    Mar 22, 2010
    This game was founded on two principles, a Mandate that players would pretty much need to win, and the ability to form alliances that would move the Mandate back and forth over the course of the game. The latter was burdened by the fact that the alliance makers accomplished absolutely nothing during N0, though I should have thought of that. The Mandate didn't do its job because it didn't leave Dong Zhuo until the very last day.

    Still, it did not fail to be a very eventful game (it did dip in the middle before kicking into overdrive). Alot will be explained as I dicuss each player and role, but as the host I feel in a postgame it is necessary to ask yourself two things. What did I learn, and what mistake did I make?

    The truth is, there were two of each that I cannot ignore.

    I learned that you can't have an ideal scenario and just expect players to follow it.

    Seeing players backstab allies and fight for the Mandate would have been so cool, but that never happened. So much of the game was balanced around that, that for a while I was really worried how players would like the game when all was said and done. The Mandate was also supposed to prevent a kingmaker scenario, and it didn't even do that. But then there is why my best laid plans were dashed.

    Stick a fork in it, 1v2 is done (or should be).

    It's been said before but I guess we never fucking learn. The mafia will always team up, the village will always brute force them. A wolf won this game because the village was so busy scum hunting it didn't heed my numerous warnings of powerful wolves. It's sad, because to me mafia is the concept of the informed minority against the uninformed majority. But it's only going to be played the same way every time and innovation is really just going to be a bother. This and my above point have led to the decision that my future games will be much more symmetrical, with more natural options for shifting alliances and anything to give even experienced players less idea of what they should be doing. I don't want players to follow a preconceived scenario like this game, I want to facilitate an environment where players create their own scenarios.

    I didn't have enough kills.

    A big dip in momentum mid game was probably the result of one player dying a night, and at its worst night no one died! Then four people got revived, and a high number of mafia meant that the village couldn't win fast either. In my head I figured 2 to 3 kills a night would be good, but I didn't factor in how many kills would be blocked or just fucked up by sheer coincidence. In mafia, players demand blood!

    I made hailflameblast leader of a faction.

    Seriously what the fuck was I thinking.

    Cao Wei
    Contrary to standard mafia logic, it actually seemed very natural to make the big, powerful, oppressive kingdom the village. Shu Han and Eastern Wu were allied against them for most of the time, after all. With only 11 villagers, that'd seem like a huge weakness, but I did take steps to rectify this.

    Cao Cao / wickdaggler
    Mayor +1 and Silencer. Also started the game with Cao Wei's alliance maker.

    wickdaggler made a splash very early by trying to bully the mafia into falling in line, which didn't work and really contributed to the communications breakdown N0. He made a bid for leader, but his role wasn't really suited for it. If Cao Wei got the Mandate, they wouldn't want other factions to know who Cao Cao was. On the plus side, he extracted info on the mafia from hailflameblast and moled the village as a zombie. Even though he won, it's hard to tell what kind of an impact he had on the game.

    Sima Yi / Hydrattler
    Mayor +2, not persuadable. Became Cao Wei's second alliance maker.

    Hydrattler was always suspected by Aura Guardian. I guess it seems like the role is too good to be true, but honestly, a mayor with three votes by itself would be such a liability. But the village needed more votes, so I made him not persuadable. Even after he became alliance maker, he was still under suspicion for some reason, and he didn't communicate much with other factions.

    Li Dian / coolking49

    Rand killed N1, never a good fate. However, oddly he came back and stayed alive for a few nights. Afroninja22 even failed a kill due to his protection. I guess he was a good ally to Aura Guardian once clean.

    Dian Wei / game freak201
    Reverse Martyr

    Tonight on unsolved mysteries, the mysterious death of game freak 201. UPDATE! He was killed by Phantasia while protecting Aura Guardian. Whoops! What sucks more, is he got subbed in that day. Sorry bro.

    UPDATE! Nobody gives a shit about bigfoot.

    Zhang Liao / Phantasia

    Apparently did not trust Aura Guardian at first. Still, he killed Quagsires and zombie wickdaggler. If the lynch had been tied on Day 9, Phantasia would have won the game for the village. Oh well.

    Xiahou Dun / Fangren

    Followed orders and did nothing all game. Wow, Rogue is ass. I even made it so that the rogue only had to target a player in the faction that was killing him (which led to a crucial change in how mafia kills work, I'll explain later). I doubt I will ever use a Rogue again.

    Xu Huang / badalcristiano

    He brought back coolking49, which ended up being a very good move actually. Other than that, didn't have much to do.

    Cai Mao / Yeti

    This guy right here, fucked up several kills I believe. Until the mafia figured out what he was doing, he was one hell of an asset to the village.

    Zhang He / Insomniac.

    Fucked with people, but not as much. Diverted jig's first godkill away from Aura Guardian, then blew up.

    Yu Jin / Fatecrashers
    Priority Changer and third alliance maker

    The kingmaker. Decider of who won and who lost. Mind you, he COULD have just watched, but nooooo, he had to affect the outcome. Which was entirely in jig's favor. As alliance maker he seemed on the ball, but maybe he should have taken a more active village role sooner.

    Xiahou Yuan / Aura Guardian
    I'm not going to lie, alot of his tenure was dumb luck. Announcing he was inspector day 1 yet living until day 8. He killed the mafia inspector then used inspect on people that had to be at least 90% confirmed mafia. In essence, the village lost because Aura Guardian brute forced the mafia leaving the wolves in a perfect position after I warned constantly about the wolf threat. There were other suspicious people he could have inspected that weren't exposed scum. But criticisms aside, he was the village. So he gets best of Cao Wei.

    Eastern Wu
    The kingdom of pirates and greedy scoundrel.
    I gave both mafia five members, mostly for flavor purposes. Hey, I did make efforts to balance the factions out, but refer to Mistake #1. Also, originally Wu killed on odd nights and Shu on even. But when I upgraded the Rogue, I worried that this might be too predictable and gave them a 1/2 and a choice of which night to kill on. But effectively it was just always odd nights. For this faction, I wanted the motif of distrust and deception. Neg mayor, mole, the ability to break alliances. Then throw in hooker and bg just for two very good roles.

    Sun Quan / hailflameblast
    Negative Mayor and first alliance maker

    hailflameblast is just the worst player ever. I mean really. He was exposed simply by Aura Guardian leaning on him. He then revealed almost the entire other mafia. I got rid of a recruit ability to avoid something like that happening. Wu, I am so sorry that I made him your leader. I really am.

    And stop being a sore wuser.

    Zhou Yu / Alchemator
    Alliance Breaker and second alliance maker

    As a more experienced player than hfb, he was supposed to help guide hfb to victory. I didn't want the first alliance maker to be the best player. Well we see how well that went. Alchemator didn't get much of a chance, he defended the undefendable and was lynched for it.

    Sun Ren / King Emerald
    Mole and third alliance maker

    And a hell of a mole role at that, able to fool all three factions. Which is exactly why I gave it to a noobie. But to be fair, he did stay under the radar for a long time and made some smart choices when in command. He was a contender for MVP actually.

    Gan Ning / Thoughts

    Thoughts was one of three mafiosos who subbed in and then didn't play even though active on the site. I messaged them and told them to get their shit together, and only Thoughts actually came back to play. It was shortlived though, his role dying and all. Still, hooker went a long way to put pressure on the village.

    Zhou Tai / Terrador14

    Another guy who subbed in and was inactive, only showing up to godkill himself. And Bodyguard did nothing anyway, but it WOULD have on Night 9. So Terrador14 lost the game for his team.

    Shu Han
    So these guys are my favorite kingdom, and I really wanted them to be something of an underdog team. Whereas Wu's roles are deceptive, Shu is straitlaced and heroic. Except for kidnapper. Yeah.

    Guan Yu / zorbees
    Team wide reverse martyr, bpv, and deadtalk

    So yeah, Shu got one really cool role and I gave it to who I thought was the best player in the game. His abilities never came into play and he didn't even fill an advisory role. Disappointing. I know it may seem hypocritical of me to not allow team deadtalk when a character can, but I do think Guan Yu is balanced. The role is made to die.

    And again with inactive subs, blagh. And I know, if hooker and bg are supposed to make Wu good, how is kidnapper at all balanced along with a role like Guan Yu? Well, originally the plan was that kidnap had a very low priority. And it still does in a way, but this game ended up using a priority system unlike any in mafia. I'll be making a Strategic Int thread to talk about it in more detail. Suffice it to say, in the end kidnap wasn't as nerfed as I had originally intended.

    Zhuge Liang / dogfish44

    My stomach turned when Aura Guardian rand inspected him. I know he didn't have any better leads at the time, but getting rid of an inspector with Dong Zhuo still hidden was just not the right idea. Remember, Dong Zhuo stayed hidden until Day 8. More baffling is why the mafia didn't revive him. Sorry dogfish44 :(

    Zhao Yun / assassinfred

    Could only revive the day after. Could feign alliance change, but mostly they could have just allied with Cao Wei to protect someone. This ability was never used, at least not by assassinfred.

    Liu Bei / polelover44

    He was cool, collected, lived to the end of the game and maybe could have won if things had gone slightly different. Another candidate for MVP. Not much else to say. He just always seemed to know what he was doing.


    Yuan Shao / Quagsires
    Killer, kidnapper, inspector, alliance maker

    The gimmick here was a fourth alliance maker, a wolf that could switch up alliances even more. Of course this never came to pass, and neither did much for Quagsires. An unfortunate randkill sealed his fate even after he had been brought back. He could either kidnap or inspect, but not both, which I thought made for a very balanced wolf. A very good player I feel, but did not reach his potential here.

    Dong Zhuo / -TheLucarioEffect-
    Redirector and holder of the Mandate

    I'm glad you liked this role TLE. I really am. Because the role was made to die. I wasn't gonna give it or its partner to someone who had never played before, but I did give them to the two players I thought most likely to expose themselves somehow (why didn't I give the role to hfb -_-). But if a player did kiss ass with Dong Zhuo power to them, and you did stay hidden for a long time and several players nominated you for MVP. Buuuuuuut;

    <jig> 7 votes on afro
    <jig> 3 votes on HFB
    <TheLucarioEffect> well, glad we caught someone. technically 3 for aura as well
    <jig> in 15 minutes we got 3 votes
    <jig> why is there 3 votes for aura?
    <jig> WHY IS THERE 3 ON AURA?
    <TheLucarioEffect> mandate?
    <jig> ah
    <jig> how do you know it gives exactly 3 votes?

    So yeah...

    Lu Bu / Afroninja22
    Killer Twin

    I never told you this, but if Dong Zhuo would have died, your WC would have changed and you would have been able to kill every night. Yet you were always in more danger than he was.

    Zhang Jue / jigglypuffers42
    Mystic Neutral

    I really didn't want this to come down to "whoever wins", so thankfully it didn't. Even if King Emerald had won, you would be MVP. Though you weren't without mistakes, you kicked a ton of ass and played puppetmaster in the final cycles. Great job.

    The gimmick here was a "wolf" with no kill, but a bunch of silly abilities. Like a modified announcer, which I wanted to make sound like it was actually the host giving tips. But jig was all "fuck that, I'm gonna make bad poetry". The revive recruit was powerful, but it had its limitations. No mafia, so no team spoiling. And the village needn't even discover the recruit, just kill jig and they'd win. What obviously won the game were persuade and ability copy. Ability copy led to some silly shit, like 4 revives.

    Anyway, need to crash. Hope you all had as much fun as I did.
  2. jigglypuffers42


    Oct 16, 2009
    First of all, Alch, my poetry was amazing :P

    Second of all, i agree that i was disappointed near the beginning when the village started mafioso lynching instead of big Dong Jsh-Whoa-Oh hunting

    EDIT: I would like to thank Fatecrashers. On n9, if King Emerald decided not to trust me, then fate could decide who would win. He was a priority changer. He chose me :P

    Towards the beginning of the game, the village was so arrogant/naive. They assumed they could win because they were lynching scum. It took them a lynch on Aura Guardian for them to open their eyes, and by then it was just three of them left.

    The thing you need to know about my role: With no BPV, my greatest fear was getting rand-killed. So i needed to find the mafia. All of them. I couldn't risk getting killed like that. Polelover pointed out the post about "where are there loyalties now" and almost gave away that Wick was evil. He didn't want his teammate, assassinfred, to die.
  3. General Spoon

    General Spoon

    Jun 26, 2010
    What was this Mandate thing and what effects did it exactly have?
  4. -TheLucarioEffect-


    Jul 28, 2010
    i'm not even angry. i'm being so sincere... right now.

    it's an honor just to be nominated, but jig deserved it because he had a lot of odd tools in his arsenal, i was meant to die, and the only one who noticed my extreme fuck up (which, tbh, if anyone else had noticed, might have made this game more intresting) was JIG. that, and i walked into his bullet. like... saw the bullet in slow motion, and intentionally stepped into it.

    gg afro, would have been awesome to see you kill on both nights, but we kind of got owned there at the end.


    and thanks for the spreadsheet AG!

    EDIT: Mandate of Heaven: Given to Dong Zhou initially. allowed for anonymous lynch votes that counted for 3 votes. if whoever held it was killed, the killer would receive it, if the helder was lynched, village would receive it
  5. jigglypuffers42


    Oct 16, 2009
    I've said this already, but I'm really sorry TLE was saying you were an idiot. You made a few mistakes, but that wasn't ground for me to have said that. The entirety of the player list was after you and you lasted until night 8. That deserves MVP.
  6. -TheLucarioEffect-


    Jul 28, 2010
    haha let me make this clear: i'm not even close to upset about the idiot thing. I know i played well for MOST of the game, but instead of being MAD i get GLAD. and the entirety of the player list was SUPPOSED to be after me. they just didn't go for it.

    Also, beginning of the game i thought i might be able to win based on the luck provided. BG killed n1, mafia inspector found n0, village inspector out doing things d1? pretty awesome. Maybe if i had used the mandates anonymous talking function more, i could have stirred things up. but oh well, hindsight

    PS: the whole first line of my post is a joke from Portal the videogame. go gladys
  7. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Sep 24, 2007
    Not gonna lie, in the end game I was desperately scrambling around, looking for a path to a village win, especially after I received alliance maker powers. But alas, it wasn't meant to be. The odds got really stacked against us there. We got too complacent.

    This mafia definitely has taught me a lot, and I expect to put that to good use in whatever mafia game I play next.

    I told everyone how to pronounce Dong Zhuo :P

    And having jig beg me to help her win was kinda funny ^_^ You are welcome
  8. ck49


    Oct 24, 2009
    Once I got spread sheet access, I figured jig was dong too. I told AG to lynch her, but he didn't. WE saw how that turned out. Really cool idea, btw.
    Also, I figured if I didn't post or do anything I might not be noticed by the mafia for a while. Turned out I was right. When I asked AG if it had been announced in the thread (since I didn't see it), he said yes so I was doubtful, but I tried it anyways. It worked until the mafia noticed I was dead, tried to kill AG, and realized I was alive again.
  9. Alchemator

    Alchemator my god if you don't have an iced tea for me when i
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Feb 7, 2009
    Well if Shu Han weren't sucking Big Dong Jsh-Who-Oh's big dong then I wouldn't have died. The village seemed to trust me, so much so that I believed I was third in command after AG and Wick were killed.

    Seriously, what's up with not killing the inspect o__o

    I was actually going to lynch Jigglypuffers42 that day, you were clearly wolf (or something to that effect) since you were paranoid as anything, claimed to a stranger (c'est moi) and weren't on Shu Han according to them.

    tl;dr feckin' hax! xD

    Also Jiggly, The Butterfly was much btter than that poem you did here!
  10. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald The hero pays the price
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jan 8, 2010
    I thought I had it. I really did. Before trusting jigs, I thought of (almost) everything she could do. I was sure she was going to role copy phantaisa to kill afroninja. Then phantasia would be lynched and I would have majority even if jigs persuded me no vote. When it came out, I didn't read afros entire role pm, and missed afro also had killing powers, leaving jigs to copy phantaisa the next night. Well, jigs played the game awesomely, and good game to all.
    Edit: so does hfb suck that much? Got lynched day 1 cause of a horrible fake in console wars and exposed himself here.
  11. Dogfish44

    Dogfish44 ^_^
    is a Forum Moderator

    Jan 1, 2009
    Ha ha ha...

    If I had had the chance (Hate saying had had ^_^;; ) I would have led a lynch on AG on the first day, because we inspected each other iirc. I'd simply swap roles and you'd all be -1 inspector. Unfortunately, I had the endless joy of real life to contend with...

    Thanks for hosting VonFiedler, and I'm impressed that the postgame came out so quickly. GJ.
  12. jigglypuffers42


    Oct 16, 2009
    Alchemator/Persistance, you were right. I failed at being undercover towards the beginning, but i must've gotten better, because look how i turned out :P

    Alchemator, as I said earlier, claiming to you was my fail attempt at trying to get in contact with a mafioso. Quagsires has inspected AG, and knew he was clean, and therefore i did too from the beggingin. You were obviously mafia, and i never trusted you for a minute. I didn't want to get randed, so I thought it was better to try to talk to you, and come off as either
    a) a naive villager or
    b) a wolf
    Because if i was either i would be near the bottom of your kill list. I role copied you to check if you were what you said, and you were an alliance breaker. I told Ag over anonymous chat, but he used fancy IRC things to track me. He figured out i was jig, and then everyone thought i was big Dong-Jsh-Whoa-Oh
  13. zorbees

    zorbees Chwa for no reason!
    is a Forum Moderator

    Dec 29, 2008
    The only reason I didn't use my deadtalking powers was because I thought all hope was lost when almost our whole team was revealed. I certainly don't know much of what happened late game, so I will comment on the balance of the game.

    TBH I thought it was pretty balanced. Village was low on numbers but had a lot of powerful roles. The mafias had a mix of power and numbers. The wolves were balanced because they could potentially be lost in the crossfire of the 2v1 and each had a unique power. I might say that Yuan Shao was slightly underpowered but he could have done things with the alliances to get into the different sides and slip through the cracks.

    And Polelover wasn't as good as you make him out to be. From what I saw, it was his mistakes (revealing most of our team to HFB) that led to HFB being an idiot. Of course I don't know how he played mid/late-game, but the fact that most of our team was revealed probably led to our downfall.
  14. jigglypuffers42


    Oct 16, 2009
    Sorry for excessive posting, but i loved this game (My 2nd one that i did something in).

    The key word here is alliance. Towards the end, like von said, i had to act as a puppetmaster, and, because of the alliance system, i had TLE, Afro, Quagsires, Shu Han, and Eastern Wu all knowing that Wickdaggler was evil. Polelover almost betrayed me by pointing out the line about where are there loyalties now. Even though i wasn't the village leader, i was doing a lot of ordering peopel around and telling them who to target

    EDIT: whoops, already mentioned that part about polelover trying to sway to lynch away from assassinfred
  15. Afroninja22


    May 9, 2009
    It was a good game. The reason I failed to kill Aura Guardian was because I thought TLE was redirecting coolking49 that night but oh well. Well played jig, I thought TLE and I could keep you in check by redirecting you but that didn't work like I had hoped.
  16. polelover44


    Dec 14, 2008
    Agreeing with this, although I don't think I made any other major mistakes (except trusting Jiggly) that led to our downfall. TBH though, hfb randomly guessed all of our members. I'd also like to add that the reason I told hfb that Darkanine was in our mafia is because he thought so. What I did do is play a pretty big role in the death of AG day 7 I think it was?, by convincing him not to lynch me the previous day by pretending to side with him. I in fact confirmed his suspicions about Thoughts. But yeah I wasn't quite that amazing.

    Edit: You said King fooled all three factions, just saying I knew he was Wu ever since hfb revealed his entire team to me lol.
  17. vonFiedler

    vonFiedler Is she still looking at the sunset, now long vanished?
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor

    Mar 22, 2010
    This wasn't his fault actually. Because the alliances failed N0, Shu and Wu were at risk for crossfire the next day. And hfb just happened to ask if he could target three of your members. He was really on a roll actually, albeit a dumb luck roll. Again something alliance maker was supposed to prevent, oh well.
  18. tape

    tape i woke up in a new bugatti

    May 24, 2008
    This was a pretty fun game and I am glad I was able to participate.
  19. Aura Guardian

    Aura Guardian

    Dec 25, 2009
    ok, my somewhat-lacking take on the game:

    Players Alive

    Revived the BG for me, so I was able to survive a bit longer. Thanks. Probably should have given him my spreads after he proved himself, but a certain reviver wolf made me cautious.


    Role was always somewhat suspicious, but not enough to merit any attention other than "please do this" or variants thereof.


    You should try "/hs request vhost.goes.here" before using anonimity again. Just mentioning. Also, great job convincing me you were harmless enough to let live until the end. You're revival powers really fooled me.


    Following the leader is usually better than not, especially with a vig role. Still, I had my hopes up late-game.

    Players Dead
    dogfish44 - Zhuge Liang, Inspector for Shu Han
    Died of old age on Day 1

    I inspected him N0 not at all randomly. I figured that:
    1) He was good, but not the sort to be made mafia (just a gut instinct, here).
    2) He would be a competent leader.
    3) He would make a good proxy leader as well.
    Unfortunately, he was mafia, so I had to go by my back-up plan of leading instead.

    hailflameblast - Sun Quan, Negative Mayor/Leader of Eastern Wu
    Stabbed by Xiahou Dun on Day 2

    I actually trusted him, but apparantly the mafia coordinated their fake claims. I leaned on him a little, and he out and told me not to lynch anyone Day 2 or I'd be overwhelmed D3. After consulting Wickdaggler, I called his bluff.

    Game Freak201 - Dian Wei, Martyr for Cao Wei
    Unsolved murder Night 2

    I had him protecting me before he died. His death was a horrible setback. IIRC, Phantasia told me of a failed kill attempt on the Shu Han Super Martyr/BPV. -_-

    zorbees - Guan Yu, Super Martyr for Shu Han
    Executed by poison arrow on Day 3

    Too risky to let go unchecked after HFB did that accidental sell-out.

    Alchemator - Zhou Yu, Alliance Breaker of Eastern Wu
    Commited suicide on Day 4

    In retrospect, a minor threat. Should have saved him for later.

    assassinfred - Zhao Yun, Resuscitator for Shu Han
    Exorcised on Day 5

    Way to risky to let him live. IIRC, I had him hooked one night before lynching him just to be sure. I'll have to check my spreadsheet - or just make it public knowledge.

    yeti - Cai Mao, Hooker for Cao Wei
    Executed as a result of defection ploy on Night 5

    My right hand, role-wise. Good job!

    BLUEBERRY BITCH - Zhang Fei, Kidnapper for Shu Han
    Killed in battle by Zhang Liao on Day 6

    Ok, this was too powerful to let live, but I probably should have gotten rid of the persuader, first.

    Terrador14 - Zhou Tai, Bodyguard for Eastern Wu
    Suicide by head pounding on Day 6

    Predecessor claimed every-other night BG, went with HFB's claim. Bigger fish to fry, though.

    Insomniac. - Zhang He, Reverse Martyr for Cao Wei
    Spontaneously ripped in twain on Day 6

    This was a massive setback, sort of like Yeti's death. Though not quite as much. But still, good job.

    Quagsires - Yuan Shao, Kidnapper/Inspector/Leader Wolf
    Killed by Zhang Liao during the Battle of Chengdu on Night 6

    In retrospect, I should have tried to get rid of you sooner. Or have heeded your advice via your inspect result and lynched Afroninja22. Also, thanks for helping us (to a minor extent)

    Thoughts - Gan Ning, Hooker for Eastern Wu
    Captured during the Battle of Chengdu on Day 7

    Not claiming at all in the early game is asking to be lynched. It was just a matter of when I didn't have a better target.

    coolking49 - Li Dian, Bodyguard for Cao Wei
    Commited suicide then exploded on Day 7

    Thanks, man. Also one of my back-up leaders. Both deaths were setbacks.

    Hydrattler - Sima Yi, Super Mayor for Cao Wei
    Killed in open city plot on Night 7

    Suspected him because his role was screaming "I could be the mandate" and was, I thought, overpowered. Of course, now that I know what the numbers really were, it seems that he was well-balanced. Even after he became the alliance guy, I figured that the real alliance guy might just not have claimed and that he was the Mandate guy, since he already knew what the alliance maker PM would be.

    Fangren - Xiahou Dun, Rogue for Cao Wei
    Struck down by Lu Bu on Night 7

    Yeah, rogue is a bad role. Still tried to tell him who would be a good target (coordinated with martyr and hooker)

    Aura Guardian - Xiahou Yuan, Inspector for Cao Wei
    Handed himself in to the Emperor on Day 8

    More on me later.

    Afroninja22 - Lu Bu, Wolf ally of Dong Zhuo
    Killed by magic on Night 8

    Ok, you were suspicious since HFB told me you were bad - but he told me you were mafia, so I doubted that. I probably should have dealt with you sooner, though.

    -TheLucarioEffect- - Dong Zhuo, Redirector and Holder of the Mandate
    Killed by a platoon of handmaidens on Night 8

    The only person that moled me without recruit+revive help. You proved yourself early by redirecting Yeti N1, so I figured you were clean enough to ignore other than action requests. Your results were unreliable, though, so I guess I should have suspected something other than bad luck or the mechanics not working like I thought they would. Good game.

    EDIT: thanks for ousting the last unousted mafia for me!

    wickdaggler - Cao Cao, Mayor/Silencer thrall of Zhang Jue.
    Struck down by Zhang Liao on Night 8

    Great co-leader until death, then a good one after revival ... until he "forgot" to send in a PM silencing the guy I figured would get persuaded+godkilled (polelover44 told me of that after I spared him to go after a kidnapper - I'm not sure anyone saw what that post was, originally).

    polelover44 - Liu Bei, Persuader/Leader of Shu Han
    Rebellion put down on Day 9

    Probably should have gotten rid of you sooner. Your persuading was very unreliable.

    King Emerald - Sun Ren, Mole of Eastern Wu
    Starcrossed on Night 9

    You never were truly under the radar. The negative vote was screaming mafia. I just had more dangerous fish to fry, and then I died.


    Other thoughts:

    my mistakes:
    - should have inspected to clean, not find dirt. Next time I'm a leader, I'll do better!
    - should have been really dubious about Jig's revive and loyalty.
    - should have gotten rid of the roles that are great late-game first
    - should have dealt with the wolves, not the mafia

    problems I saw:
    - ok, revive+recruit is rather close to broken. I don't remember, but I don't think it was in the rules that loyalties can change.
    - the loads of revivals. Maybe the copy power not working on those?
    - the numbers. 11v5v5v2v1v1 is asking for a village loss. Factor in the revive+recruit and the mandate: 15 v 5 v 4 & -1 v 2 v 2 v 1. Factor in persuaders. If the mafias and wolves had coordinated from N0 - or only semi-coordinated - then the village could have been overtaked D1. 14 Cao Wei, 4 Shu Han, 4 Eastern Wu, and 3 wolves with a slight increase in kills would have been a bit more balanced. Luckily, the mafia didn't manage until late-game to overthrow, so it worked out this time.


    Also agreeing, 2 mafia, one village is dead or should be.


    EDIT: oh, here are my documents.

    The claims - I mostly left this untouched except for adding claims. It was not well-maintained, but that was not it's purpose.
    My spreadsheet. I played this game fairly close to my chest, bar my back-up leaders. The first page is the most up to date; the third is the most obsolete. I only maintained the parts that were necessary. When everyone who had access died, I locked it and left it as-is. It wasn't updated by my co-leaders much, either. So it has what I knew when I died on it..
  20. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 30, 2009
    I avoided talking over here since I thought there would be no use, but considering AG coming out and all, I think its my turn to speak.

    Arguably, polelover44 was an idiot for revealing who's role was what on his team. I clearly specified who I believed were his teamates, and he put a role to each name. While he was right in hiding the last member, he probably should have said that wickdaggler wasn't his mate, since I had clearly specified to him that I would talk to any one of the people on my list to communicate night actions.

    He mentioned zorbees alright, but then wickdaggler came online and started talking with me, and considering my convo with polelover44, I trusted him and tried to confirm his teammates, which wick successfully managed to do.

    P.S.: AG would have lynched me anyway, and if I had been able to defend myself the day I got lynched, I could have organized a stealth lynch like I was planning to.

    Also, vF: I gathered a fuckton of data and put it all in my sheet, with the only incorrect thing being wickdaggler's alliance and Blueberry's alliance. You read my anon. messages, and you noticed by the replies that we *were* organizing ourselves(the mafias), its just that we weren't able to get an alliance D1 due to them not communicating that they agreed to do so.
  21. vonFiedler

    vonFiedler Is she still looking at the sunset, now long vanished?
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor

    Mar 22, 2010
    Another thing worth mentioning. On day 9, if the lynch had been tied with King Emerald, the village would have checkmated jig. The two villagers who could vote would vote for King Emerald, and maybe could have convinced jig that the person with the mandate was the bigger threat. Due to the rules, both pol and king would have been lynched, the village would get the mandate, and there'd be no lynch the next day. So jig could kill the vigilante or the holder of mandate, but couldn't win either way.
  22. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Sep 24, 2007
    And here was me thinking that a tied vote would be worthless, I'm kicking myself for not reading the rules more carefully. Definitely another lesson I have to take away from this.

    And yeah I don't blame Aura Guardian for not trusting me or giving me spreadsheet access, it is nigh impossible to prove my priority changer role properly.

    Also I'm not sure that any of the three remaining villagers caught on to the true nature of jig's wolf role ie she can role copy a different person every single night.
  23. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald The hero pays the price
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jan 8, 2010
    Haha I was worried they would tie and I was hoping they wouldn't notice. Two things to say to aura: one thoughts was a sub, it was the idiot before him that didn't claim, not him. And I didn't have much choice in claiming neg votes, it was my mole power and I didn't want to contradict it.
  24. jigglypuffers42


    Oct 16, 2009
    How many times in that game (and in the endgame) did I hear the phrase:

    "Bigger fish to fry"

    Seriously, you were overwhelmed with mafioso, and you never bothered to look for dirt. You let me slide with what i gave you, which was a couple sentences about my role. You didn't see me as a friend, as you didn't ask for a role pm or tell me who to target, you didnt' see me as a minion, as in tell me what to do or i get lynched, and you didn't see me as a enemy, as in lynch me. You just kind of ignored a confessed wolf.

    A deadtalking wolf is underestimated. If people weren't being such jerks:

    <Jigglypuffers42> Please give me a contact in your mafia team
    <Dogfish44> Go away. You're annoying me now

    then i could've gotten contacts with the mafia earlier.

    P.S. I honestly think that the scum that survived towards the near end of the game survived not because of their strategy (except for maybe me :P) but because there were "bigger fish to fry".
  25. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald The hero pays the price
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jan 8, 2010
    Jig that's probably right on why I survived. I was worried as heck that I would be the next lynch and I was hoping they would inspect me first to give me some ground. I came up with so many agruments on why I wasn't mafia. But the village never looked at me. Or jig or tle or afroninja. They let quagsire survive forever before killing him.

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