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Roselia [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Asbestospoison, May 22, 2013.

  1. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

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    I figure this guy needs an analysis by now, he's been in NU since like December or something.

    [​IMG]
    [Overview]

    <p>Roselia is one of few Pokemon in NU with access to Spikes, which she can set up reliably thanks to her Grass-, Water-, and Electric-type resistances and good special bulk with Eviolite. Her typing and relatively high Special Attack also allow her to stop various Pokemon in NU, such as Ludicolo, Alomomola, and Seismitoad. Unfortunately, Roselia's Defense is rather lackluster, even with Eviolite, leaving her vulnerable to common physical attacks, such as Golurk and Scolipede. She also faces competition as a Spiker from Scolipede and Garbodor, with the former having better offensive presence and the latter having better physical bulk to tank Fighting- and Bug-type attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Rest / Synthesis
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Sludge Bomb
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is the best way to use Roselia, taking advantage of her access to Spikes and solid special bulk which allows it to switch in to most special attacks with relative ease. Roselia can also use her immunity to Toxic to grant it free switches and start setting up Spikes. Rest restores all of Roselia's HP, increasing its longevity at the cost of having to switch out so that Natural Cure can wake her up. Synthesis can be used instead, as it lets Roselia stay in longer and continue to set up more layers of Spikes. Giga Drain is Roselia's primary STAB attack, hitting common Pokemon, such as Golem and Samurott, for super effective damage. Sludge Bomb is useful for the many Pokemon that resist Giga Drain, such as Charizard, Tangela, and Serperior, and gives Roselia a way to hit Pokemon with Sap Sipper.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A specially defensive spread is usually Roselia's best option because of her ability to check common special attackers and due to her low physical bulk. Additionally, Armaldo is the only spinner in the tier capable of switching into Roselia without being 2HKOed after SR damage, as Wartortle and Torkoal can be taken down by Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb respectively.</p>

    <p>Since Roselia's physical defense is lacking, she appreciates having a Pokemon to take physical hits for her. Alomomola is one of the best options, as not only can it take physical hits for Roselia, but it also resists the Fire- and Ice-type moves that ruin Roselia's day. Meanwhile, Roselia can take any Electric-type attacks, Grass-type attacks, or Toxics aimed at Alomomola. It should be noted that Alomomola does not beat most Ice-types; it just tanks their hits in order to pivot to another partner. Musharna is another great partner, as it can effectively wall Sawk, one of the bigger threats to Roselia. Bastiodon is also a good choice thanks to its access to Stealth Rock, and it synergizes well with Roselia's typing. As for spinblockers, Misdreavus is one of the best options not only because of its bulk but also because it can burn the physical attackers that threaten Roselia. Finally, Skuntank makes a good partner as it can take care of any Psychic-types that threaten Roselia.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Roselia has a great support movepool with moves such as Aromatherapy, Stun Spore, Cotton Spore, and Toxic. She also has access to Toxic Spikes, which could be used instead of Sludge Bomb on some teams. Extrasensory is also an option to hit Poison-types such as Garbodor and Scolipede harder. Roselia also has access Sleep Powder, but because it's illegal with Spikes, it rarely sees use. As Roselia's typing is more suited to taking physical attacks, one could choose to run an EV spread of 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD with a bold nature to capitalize on this. Keep in mind that Natural Cure is really the only ability you should be using on Roselia, as Poison Point is too unreliable and Leaf Guard is basically an inferior Natural Cure that needs sun up in order to work. Finally, Roselia could also utilize her relatively high Special Attack on an offensive set with Leaf Storm or Giga Drain alongside Sludge Bomb, allowing her to hit opponents hard and get a chance to set up Spikes, but Leaf Storm is illegal with Spikes and Roselia faces competition as an offensive Spiker from Scolipede.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Despite Roselia's impressive bulk with Eviolite, nearly any physical attacker can take her down. Sawk, Golurk, and Scolipede can all at least 2HKO Roselia. On top of that, not even Roselia's special bulk can protect her from the Psychic-, Fire-, and Ice-types throughout NU; Pokemon such as Jynx, Gardevoir, and Charizard all make short work of her with their super effective STAB moves. Steel-types can also switch into Roselia with few problems. Klang is one of the best options as it can simply set up while all Roselia can do is use Spikes or switch out. Poison-types are in the same boat, resisting both of Roselia's STABs and even absorbing any Toxic Spikes Roselia may have set up. Muk, Skuntank, and Golbat are good examples of this, as Muk can OHKO with Ice Punch, while Skuntank can damage Roselia on the way out with Pursuit, taking away about half her health. Golbat, while unable to absorb Toxic Spikes, takes almost nothing from Roselia's attacks and can OHKO it with Brave Bird. Finally, while they may give her a free turn to set up, Knock Off and Trick both remove Roselia's precious Eviolite, rendering Roselia far less useful.</p>

    Skeleton (open)

    [Overview]
    • Hazard setter with great special bulk thanks to eviolite
    • Good support movepool
    • Ability keeps it from being crippled by status
    • Immune to toxic
    • Great spiker/toxic spiker
    • Good SpA
    • Crap physical defenses
    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Synthesis / Rest
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Sludge Bomb
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP/ 8 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Spiker with great special bulk
    • Immune to toxic and absorbs t-spikes
    • Base 100 SpA keeps roselia from being pure set-up bait
    • Spiker in tier with almost no spinners
    • Giga drain increases longevity, thanks to her base 100 SpA
    • Synthesis lets roselia tank hits longer, and thus allows Roselia to continue spiking, while Rest recovers all HP and lets you continue walling longer, but forces roselia to switch out so natural cure will activate.
    • Sludge Bomb is useful as secondary stab, and lets Roselia deal with grass types.
    [Additional Comments]
    • EVs maximize special bulk while letting roselia take physical hits a little better, HP evs are to reduce damage from stuff like stealth rock
    • Can outspeed and 2HKO Wartortle and Torkoal if stealth rock is up, meaning they can't switch in and spin. (Armaldo can be 2HKO'd only if 3 layers of Spikes and SR are up)
    • Faces competition as a spiker from Scoliopede on more offensive teams, but has better bulk and can switch into more
    • Can wall and/or set up on pokemon such as Alomomola, Ampharos, Vileplume, Serperior, Simisage Ludicolo, Gorebyss, special Samurott, Eelektross, Tangela, Weezing, and Zebstrika.
    • Physical Walls are good teammates, since Roselias Def is awful.
    • Alomomola has great type synergy, being able to take physical attacks aimed at roserade, along with Ice and Fire-type moves, while roselia can take electric and grass attacks aimed at Alomomola, and can also switch in on toxic.
    • Bastiodon is another good partner for most of the same reasons, and it can set up stealth rock.
    • Musharna also makes for a good partner, as it walls Sawk, a major threat to Roselia.
    • Spinblockers are great partners, especially on defensive teams, since they keep roselias hazards on the field. Misdreavus is a good spinblocker because it can burn physical attackers that might give roselia trouble. It can also take physical attacks for roselia.
    [Other Options]
    • Good support movepool including Aromatherepy, Toxic, Stun Spore, Cotten Spore
    • Sleep Powder is another great support move, although it's illegal with spikes.
    • Can run a physically defensive spread of 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD with a bold nature to take advantage of roselia's typing
    • Can run somewhat gimmicky Toxic/T-Spikes and Venoshock combo
    • Could run an offensive set thanks to its SpA, but would generally be outclassed by vileplume.
    • Leaf Gaurd is useless compared to Natural Cure
    • Toxic Spikes can be used instead of sludge bomb
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Pretty much any physical attacker
    • Most Psychic and Ice-types can at least 2HKO roselia, despite its special bulk. Jynx in particular can hit it hard with either of it's STABs.
    • Steel-types such as Klang and can come in on roselia and set up. Bastiodon also walls Roselia, but can't do much in return except roar it out.
    • Flying-types such as braviary can usually switch in and either KO Roselia or force it out.
    • Poison-types are resistant to both Roselia's stabs and can absorb T-Spikes. Muk, Skuntank and Golbat in particular are good counters, although golbat can't absorb spikes.
    • Knock Off and trick get rid of eviolite, severely crippling Roselia's walling ability, although be warned they give roselia a turn to set up spikes.
    This is my first analysis be gentle ;-;
  2. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    I'm no NU expert, but may I suggest maybe listing Spinblockers as part of your AC? If Roselia is going to be placing Spikes / Toxic Spikes on the field as its main niche, then having Pokemon that can prevent Rapid Spin users are pretty essential. Even if Roselia can 2HKO them w/ Stealth Rock, it wouldn't kill anyone, would it? I'd suggest Misdreavus; it's bulk can come in handy against physical attackers, and WoW can silence the majority of them, including Sawk and Braviary.

    Also, you list physical walls as partners - are there any examples of them? You should probably elaborate on that as well.
  3. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

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    Can't believe I forgot spinblockers >_< (I did mean to have them though, just forgot.)
    Also, the three pokemon after the "Physical walls are great partners" were what I was referring too, I guess that might not have been clear.
    But yeah, I should definitely add misdreavus.
  4. melvni

    melvni
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    Remember Golbat is airborne, so it can't absorb Toxic Spikes. I think that should be mentioned or another example should be used.
  5. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

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    I fixed it so that it's mentioned. I didn't remove it since Golbat is a pretty good counter IMO (Golbat takes like 13% damage max from Sludge Bomb and can OHKO with Brave Bird in return). I also listed Skuntank, as I had some trouble with one earlier today. Given that Roselia can't even switch out w/out loosing 50% of its health to pursuit, and can't do much to it in return, it seems like a pretty good counter.
  6. Joim

    Joim All promises become a lie, all that's bening corrups in time
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    You should mention Sleep Powder at least in OO, it's one of its best support moves despite being incompatible with Spikes :<
  7. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    The format for the set itself is incorrect. It should look like this:

    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Synthesis / Rest
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Sludge Bomb
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP/ 8 Def / 252 SpD

    The format changes were: making name to evs all lowercase and adding proper spacing to the evs. Take note of this if you ever make another analysis.

    • The other changes I made were moving Synthesis and Rest up a slot to show their importance to the set, removing the Toxic Spikes slash on move 4, and changing the ev spread from 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD to 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD.

    • Instead of being a main slash, Toxic Spikes can go in Additional Comments instead as Sludge Bomb is important for Roselia to be able to counter Ludicolo and Serperior properly. Toxic Spikes are not too hard to contain due to the abundance of Poison-type Pokemon such as Scolipede, Garbodor, and opposing Roselia.

    • The ev spread I gave is better because having 8 Def gives you a slightly bigger Defense boost with Eviolite due to Defense now being an even number. Having 248 HP gives Roselia an odd HP number which slightly reduces damage from things like Stealth Rock, Spikes, and burns.

    • Mention all of the Pokemon Roselia is capable of walling or setting up Spikes on. The list includes: Alomomola, Vileplume, Serperior, Ludicolo, Gorebyss, special Samurott, Eelektross, Tangela, Weezing, Zebstrika and Zebstrika.

    • Mention the advantages of Synthesis vs Rest. How Synthesis allows you to stay in on opposing Pokemon while you heal to get up more Spikes compared to Rest which forces you to switch out, but Rest recovers Roselia's HP to 100%.

    • Add a physically defensive ev spread of 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD Bold in Additional Comments as a decent option to make use out of Roselia's defensive typing which is better suited for taking physical hits.

    • Add Sleep Powder to Other Options as Spikes are the main reason to use Roselia in the first place.

    Do all of this and I'll give you a QC stamp for your troubles.
  8. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

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    Alright, I edited EBeast's stuff in, please tell me if I messed up or forgot something somewhere.
  9. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
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    Just as a nitpick, I would probably change the first bullet point in the overview "Great Special Wall thanks to eviolite" to more appropriate reflect that it's not really a wall as much as it is a bulky hazard setter. It would make for a pretty decent wall if it weren't for its typing which really doesn't help it wall the tier's most prominent special threats (Charizard, Jynx, Rotom formes, general Psychic-types like Gardevoir and Exeggutor, etc). It is good at what it does no doubt, but I don't feel as though you should call it a wall.
  10. The NU Tuber

    The NU Tuber

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    But if that's the case, shouldn't it use a different EV spread rather than a specially defensive one?
  11. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

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    I think what he meant is that I should say it's primarily a spiker with good special bulk, instead of a good special wall with access to spikes, and he didn't mean that I should change the set around. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Treecko37)
  12. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Add what Treecko said about referring to Roselia as a specially defensive hazard setter rather than specially defensive wall. You also have two mention of Zebstrika on your list of mons Rose can set up on, so fix that.

    [Qc]1/3[/qc]
  13. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

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    Edited to what Treecko said and removed the second Zebstrika.
  14. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

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    specify natural cure will cure sleep, not everyone will realize
    add: but it would likely be outclassed by flower brother vileplume or victreebell

    add: most importantly jynx

    add: but give him a free spikes turn

    good job

    [​IMG]
    QC approved 2/3
  15. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

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    Done with the changes, I'll get the write up done as soon as I can.
  16. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

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    Double Posting to say write-up is done. Tell me any errors, or where I screwed up and forgot something or w/e, and I'll fix it.
  17. tennisace

    tennisace Proximity to power deludes some into thinking they wield it.
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    Couple things.

    -Your intro is a bit fluffy (though that last sentence is funny). You should follow the guidelines in the OP of this thread for an example on what intros should be like.

    -Why is there no mention of any offensive Roselia sets? Roselia has perfectly good 100 SpA to deal with, and Leaf Storm / Giga Drain / Sludge Bomb to take advantage of them. It can come in on most Water-types and then force them out, either setting up Spikes / Toxic Spikes or hitting the switch-in hard. Be careful of legality issues though, Roselia can't get Spikes + Leaf Storm on the same set.
  18. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

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    I cut down the intro some, tell me if I accidentally left something out/it's still fluffy/whatever. I also did have a short mention of an offensive set in other options, but it wasn't much besides "Roselia got good SpA, you could use it". I just edited it to expand on that a bit, though.
  19. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    I'd argue that the first sentence isn't very accurate, Roselia wasn't very prominent the last 2 gens (because NU wasn't an official tier at all in gen 4). So I wouldn't focus on that too much.

    I'm still not a fan of this overview, it doesn't tell me much about Roselia's role in the metagame.

    Rose is a SpDef spiker that can also counter Grass and Water types. She is a pretty good mon, you spend a lot of time focusing on her weaknesses and not enough on her strengths.

    Things that I would like to see in the overview:
    Specially defensive spiker
    walls a lot of special attackers well (toad, ludi, serp, don't list all of them though)
    low defense means that physical attacks destroy her

    So you don't need to completely rework it, it just needs some more tweaking. I like the rest of the analysis though!
  20. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

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    Tweaked it a bit, how is it now?
  21. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Check your capitalization on some things; Eviolite, Spikes, and Toxic should be capitalized as well as the word: Electric-types. It's Scolipede, not Scoliopede. Go through the whole analysis and fix any you can catch, there are normal typos in there as well. We want to make this as smooth for GP as possible.

    Since we want this up as fast as possible, I'll rewrite some of the overview for you.

    overview (open)
    Roselia also has access to Spikes, which she can set up easily thanks to her bulk. Her typing gives her resistances to the common Grass-,Water- and electric-types in NU furthering her walling abilities. Combine this with her great base 100 Special Attack, and you have a pokemon able to wall and set up on many common pokemon in the tier such as Ludicolo, Alomomola, Seismitoad, Tangela, Zebstrika, and more.

    Change to:
    Roselia also has access to Spikes, which she can set up reliably thanks to her Grass-, Water-, Electric-type resistances and good special bulk with Eviolite. Her typing and good base 100 Special Attack allow her to stop various Pokemon in NU such as Ludicolo, Alomomola, Seismitoad, Tangela, Zebstrika,and Serperior and retaliate.



    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Base 100 Special Attack is not really impressive, especially when it's uninvested. Change to: Roselia's base 100 Special Attack allows her to deal good damage to switch ins even when uninvested.

    • Don't refer to moveslots in here. Just mention all the moves as they are.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Don't talk about the EV spread in detail, just mention that a specially defensive spread is better on Roselia due to having terrible physical defense and having the ability to beat common special attackers.

    In terms of relevance to the metagame this look fine. However, I think this definitely requires you to read over it again and fix a lot of things such as spelling errors and the way your sentences are structured. I'll look at it once that is done.
  22. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

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    Fixed it (or at least attempted to), how is it now?
  23. Detective Dell

    Detective Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
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    I would like to see some discussion of this set here:

    [​IMG]
    Roselia @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 160 HP / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Spikes
    - Rest / Synthesis

    This was the spread that was posted by user FLCL back in January. It plays a little differently in that it carries a lot of offensive power in comparison to the defensive set while being able to use a combination of its speed, setting up Spikes as well, and still having the bulk to check most of the threats that Specially Defensive Roselia does already. It also takes advantage of Pokemon that like to stay in and attack expecting the defensive set, such as Golurk or Piloswine. The speed EVs also give you enough to outspeed max Golem. Such advantages are the ones that I feel give it a better time of taking advantage of the mostly frail offensive metagame for more offensive teams that appreciate its utility. You can also mention Hidden Power Fire as a filler as it can net an OHKO on Jynx and Scolipede on the switch after Stealth Rock and can deal some respectable damage to Metang.

    I'll wait for QC members to address their opinion to this one though since I'm not sure if they prefer this to be in OO or an actual set.

    Now, onto the actual analysis.

    On the "Set Comments" section, I kind of dislike how you emphasize that this is "probably" Roselia's best set. If this is going to be the first (or only, in this case currently) set displayed on the analysis, then it is generally going to established as the best set. Ideally, there is not much need to make any "best set" reference unless you are actually explaining why that is the case. Aside from that, I think that you should be a little more explicit upon explaining what Sludge Bomb is actually used for an attacking move. It is also used to hit Fire- and Flying-typing Pokemon who resists Giga Drain for respectable damage, not to mention being its strongest STAB move.

    You should probably cut the first sentence introduced on the first paragraph, as it really just displays a bit of fluffiness when you're already explaining the purpose of the spread that it should be running on this set on the following sentence.

    Regarding teammates, when mentioning its Ice resist you should also take into account into Alomomola's inability to reliably beat most offensive Ice-types 1v1 most of the time besides Piloswine, being non-Psyshock Jynx and the occasional Regice and Articuno. On the comment with spinblockers, I don't think it's a need of mentioning why its "typing" is so good per say, since when referencing spinblockers it is obvious that you referring to a Ghost-type.

    I think Extrasensory deserves a mention, as it can be used to deal with Poison-types (besides Skuntank) better who would otherwise attempt to wall/setup on Roselia. It can also work especially well with Toxic Spikes as a means of luring them with Extrasensory so it can set them up afterwards.

    Otherwise, pretty much.
  24. ebeast

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    The set Dell suggested can go in OO. It was actually not the most common set in Round 8 whatsoever, nobody used it once we realized that Leaf Storm was illegal with Spikes and everyone just moved on to the Specially Defensive set. Implement his other stuff too though.

    I'd like the Overview to be reworked. Remove the first and last sentences and in the sentence "Roselia also has access to Spikes..." remove the word also. Add Garbodor as another Pokemon that competes with Roselia and mention how Garbodor has good physical bulk that lets it take on the Fighting- and Bug-type Pokemon that Roselia struggles against.

    The kind of Overview I'm looking for is something along the lines of:

    Roselia has access to Spikes, which she can set up reliably thanks to her Grass-, Water-, Electric-type resistances and good special bulk with Eviolite. Her typing and good base 100 Special Attack allow her to stop various Pokemon in NU such as Ludicolo, Alomomola, Seismitoad, Tangela, Zebstrika,and Serperior and retaliate. Unfortunately, Roselia's Physical Defense is rather lacking even with Eviolite, leaving her vulnerable to common threats such as Primeape, Golurk and Scolipede. She also faces competition as a Spikes user from Scolipede and Garbodor, the former having more offensive presence and the latter having better physical bulk to take on Fighting- and Bug-type Pokemon better.

    Implement pls.
    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  25. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
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    this still being worked it? it just needs ebeast and dell's changes implemented before it's ready for GP, and it'd be nice to get this onsite within two tier changes since it dropped. lol

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