Roserade (Weather Support)

[SOMALIA]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/roserade

[SET]
name: Weather Support
move 1: Rain Dance / Sunny Day
move 2: Leaf Storm / Grass Knot
move 3: Weather Ball / Sludge Bomb
move 4: Sleep Powder
item: Damp Rock / Heat Rock
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Roserade boasts great Special Attack and Speed, allowing it to outpace a large portion of Pokemon and use Rain Dance or Sunny Day before taking a hit. Sleep Powder is a big asset to Roserade's movepool, as it effectively gives Roserade a free turn for setting up and also incapacitates an opposing Pokemon for several turns, allowing fellow sweepers to switch in without risk. The second moveslot is for Roserade's STAB move of choice. Leaf Storm is preferred for its sheer power, but Grass Knot is a viable alternative if Leaf Storm's Special Attack drop is unattractive. Weather Ball greatly benefits Roserade in weather, as it is essentially either a boosted Fire- or Water-type move in sun or rain, respectively. Roserade can use either Rain Dance and Damp Rock, or Sunny Day and Heat Rock; the choice between the two depends on the kind of support that your team requires.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The EV spread is fairly straightforward for an offensive Pokemon such as Roserade. 252 Speed EVs and a Timid nature are necessary on this set as they allow Roserade to outspeed as many threats as possible; considering that Roserade isn't particularly bulky, it is important for it to be fast. 252 Special Attack EVs ensure that Roserade hits as hard as possible with its massive base 125 Special Attack. Energy Ball is an option to consider if Leaf Storm and Grass Knot are unappealing to you.</p>

<p>As it is Roserade's role to set up either Rain Dance or Sunny Day, Pokemon with Swift Swim or Chlorophyll are required for your team to take advantage of the weather it sets up. Heatran makes a great partner as it can come in on Fire-type attacks aimed at Roserade, get a Flash Fire boost, and start to wreak havoc if Sunny Day is up. Faster Taunt users can prevent Roserade from setting up weather or using Sleep Powder, but most of them are fragile and are OHKOed by Leaf Storm. Rapid Spin support is always welcome as Roserade is quite frail, and the removal of entry hazards effectively increases Roserade's lifespan.</p>

 

[eastamazonantidote]

You mention TSpikes and Spikes, but they are not on the set. It looks pretty decent. It seems to me like Rosey would just slow down the weather team, though. In my experience weather hits fast or loses. Roserade comes in and takes her time with everything, putting stuff to sleep, then the weather, and then we can get going. She isn't switching in on much with a defense stat like that, so you have to take a full turn to get her in. I don't have that much experience with weather, though, mostly against it and even then not too much. Why would I use this over sturdier pokes like, say, Bronzong?

 

[DangerMouse]

I think it all depends on the team and what problems you have. Kingdra has a horrible time sweeping if tspikes are down roserade can soak them up bronzong cant. Bronzong has to rely on hypnosis if you want him to sleep stuff sleep powder is more accurate. I agree bronzong's typing and defense is better there is no denying that, plus explosion is great. Roserade is just another option and plays diffrently. Weather Ball a superior SPA and spe also sets the two apart. Spike and Tspikes were mentioned but not in the set because you waste weather turns.

 

[Alchemator]

Looks decent enough, but I haven't tested it.

One thing to note is that you have the item order wrong.

Rain Dance / Sunny Day means you need to have Damp Rock / Heat Rock

You wouldn't go using Heat Rock with Rain Dance now would you :P

 

[Neto-senpai]

For SD teams, Victreebel can run the same moveset and can go with a more defensive EV spread due being faster on the sun.

 

[Reliking]

As a lead, Roserade isn't the best. But it can be a decent mid game replen.

 

[ARandomDude]

Nitpick (under teammates/counters)

- chansey laughs at Roserade’s attacks unless you carry toxic or tspikes

I think you mean Blissey.

 

[Philip7086]

This set seems pretty decent. I'm mostly concerned that you admitted your grammar is poor, though, and you have a few spelling errors and mistakes in this outline. Would you be willing to allow a more experienced writer work with you and write the actual analysis if we approve this set?

 

[IcyMan28]

You mention Spikes and TSpikes in the Additional Comments, but they are not in the set.

Though I don't think they should be included, be sure to mention that Spikes and Sleep Powder are incompatible on the same set, removing one of this set's biggest assets.

 

[RaikouLover]

I would probably list Sleep Powder in AC and go with Rest / Synthesis for slashes. Synthesis is highly usable with Sunny Day and Rest is reliable in any other weather thanks to natural cure. I would also focus alot more on Roserade's special defense statistic as this is a supporting pokemon.

 

[DangerMouse]

sorry havent been on the last day or two:

@ Philip7086: I have no issues with that

@ RaikouLover: I'll try synthesis out tonight i have used rest before and it
works great just not sure of the "sandstorm" factor on synthesis and should a
spread be made to abuse Roserade's SPDef ? I'm not to great with spreads...

@ IcyMan28: yea i thought they deserved a mention in AC ill note that sleep powder and tspikes
is illegal

@ Alchemator: I'll fix that

@ ARandomDude: yea blissy i'll fix that, whoops can you tell I play alotta UU lol

@ Reliking: yea this isn't meant to be a lead it can work thanks to sleep powder but there are better options in that position

 

[Bogmire]

(NOTE: sleep powder and tspikes is an illegal combination)

No it's not. Standard lead Roserade uses that combination all the time. Spikes+Sleep powder, however, IS an illegal combination.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Just a small note: Should Roserade take on a sweeper position of some sort, go with Max Speed and Special Attack to maximize her offenses.
If Roserade's taking on a supporter position, there should be enough Speed EV's required to outspeed a certain threat and distribute sonme EV's between Special Defense, HP, and possibly SpA. Maybe not Special Attack because Roserade can...still hit hard off that unEV'd Special attack, I guess. Not that Weather Ball's that useful anymore.

EDIT: Derp, "Defenses".

 

[DangerMouse]

Just a small note: Should Roserade take on a sweeper position of some sort, fo with Max Speed and Special Attack to maximize her defenses.

If Roserade's taking on a supporter position, there should be enough Speed EV's required to outspeed a certain threat and distribute sonme EV's between Special Defense, HP, and possibly SpA. Maybe not Special Attackl because Roserade can...still hit hard off that unEV'd Special attack, I guess. Not that Weather Ball's that useful anymore.

Yea I'm not great at making defensive ev spreads so i have been using max SPA, Roserades SPA is just so great (Roserades Leafstorm is the strongest Special attack in OU its just resisted by alot).

I did state in AC a bulkier spread should be considered and RaikouLover stated we should possibly consider abusing Roserades high base SPdef so ill mess around and try to make a few spreads tonight, any help is appreciated.

I Put Rest over sleep powder because it works so great with natural cure and it allows Roserade multiple switches, sleep powder is slashed because it's also a great option.

 

[RaikouLover]

just not sure of the "sandstorm" factor on synthesis and should a

Well, since it is a weather changing set, synthesis in sun recovers 2/3 of your HP. And despite what people think, Sandstorm is only in what? 1/4 of matches? Synthesis is usable weather you decide to change the weather or not. And IF Tyranitar or Hippodown have the balls to actually switch into roserade on the turn it uses Sunny Day, Tyranitar will lose its Special Defense boost and say "oh shit" and have to switch out or fire off a piss weak Scarfed attack that you can switch something else into.

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

Wouldn't Hidden power Ice or Ground be welcome somewhere on this set, to assist with the coverage?

 

[panamaxis]

Is it worth considering sludge bomb > weather ball if you use rain dance because a rain dance team doesn't exactly love switching into celebi and shaymin, who both wall this shaymin and if you don't switch you die and/or rain is outstalled. You'd be losing out on steel types really but that's pretty much it and heatran/metagross/jirachi is a lot easier for a rain team to switch into than celebi/shaymin.

Agree/disagree?

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Okay, I have done some short extensive testing for the Rain Dance variant. My experiences and trends:

• A healthy Swampert will ALWAYS switch out this thing in fear of Grass-type STAB and switch to a Grass-move pivot. Don't bother trying to set up in front of a low-health Swampert; he'll go offensive before going down.
• A usual switch-in is Heatran, Scizor, Blissey, and Skarmory. Roserade can take Fire Blast in Rain just usually fine, but Rain Dance Roserade desperately hates Scizor if Sleep Clause is activated. The best it can do is fire off a decently powerful Weather Ball, Sleep it, or switch to a counter for U-Turn.
• Extensively, Blissey's always a turn-off for Roserade, so get a pivot for that. Skarmory obviously can't set up too safely, so he's not a big problem unless it uses Brave Bird (which is rarely ever uses in my experience)
• Tyranitar isn't too big of a problem and switches out frequently like Swampert if it knows Roserade outspeeds it. ScarfTar's harder to deal with, but that brings up the advantages of teammates.
• This thing also hates Kingdra deperately; courtesy of Dragon Dance and Substitute and Swift Swim. Had one sweep me before.
• Toxic Spikes is the best replacement; Stealth Rocks is a more alternate, more widespread hazard, so you can try stalling out Blissey.
• For some reason, Dragonite and Defensive Rotom-A really loves switching into this thing...

 

[DangerMouse]

Sorry havent been able to do alot of testing lately lotta overtime at work... However I have been trying out the defensive spread from the spikes set and it takes SPA hits like a beast I tried to make a spread that can use both Spd and Spa but its been uneffective it has to be one or the other right now im just trying to find the min SPa needed to KO certian pokes so i can dump the rest in spd/hp. 112 is the min spe needed for ttar. Ill try to get some more in this week.

 

[Megan_Fox]

seems like a decent set. i agree with Pana's suggestion of sludge bomb. imo it should get a slash. im leaning towards approving this set but a couple logs from your part would be nice. As Phil mentioned earlier, since you acknowledged your poor grammar, would you be willing to allow someone else to write it / help you write it?

 

[DangerMouse]

Sorry again been working 70+ hours a week lately... I will slash in sludge bomb it does help alot I found HP Water and HP Fire to help out in weather also (sinsce it gets a boost in their respected weather) but i dont think they should be slashed possibly put in AC. If some one wants to help me up with the write up that would be great i have no problem with that al all I will post what i have a lil later this week when i get the chance but i will definatly have something up this week.

 

[Megan_Fox]

I tested it today and it did a pretty good job, the only times when i was unable to get weather up was when i opted to sleep powder first and missed.

Or

Approved (1/3)

 

[Megan_Fox]

well i can tell you for a fact that the set isnt in proper format, fix it to:


[SET]
name: Weather Support
move1: Rain Dance / Sunny Day
move2: Leaf Storm / Grass Knot
move3: Sludge Bomb / Weather Ball
move4: Rest / Synthesis / Toxic Spikes
item: Damp Rock / Heat Rock
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Natural Cure

 

[DangerMouse]

fixed [set] portion

 

[Super Mario Bro]

The EVs should be more defensive oriented, since this is a support and not a sweeper set:

Calm
EVs: 252 HP/40 SpA/216 SpD

This spread takes 43.2% - 51.9% from ScarfTran's Fire Blast in the rain, and 40 SpA EVs guarantee the OHKO on Naive 0/4 Heatran with weather ball after it has switched into SR.

Infernape (without Flare Blitz) has no chance of beating you either, as Roserade takes 48.1% - 57.4% from 64 SpA LO Overheat and 68.5% - 81.5% from Jolly LO Fire Punch.