Stop being pussies about the loss of Ghost-typing on them, it doesn't doom them to UU it gives them all completely new niches, and have you even seen the defenses on Desukan? They're huge!!!! 58/145/105 is great on any Pokemon and this is a Ghost-type. After using Calm Mind twice this thing is completely unbreakable. It can also use the gimmicky Power Share or Will-O-Wisp to cripple potential physical threats to it.
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Rotom Forms
- Thread starter Ditto
- Start date
No need to be offensive over spilled milk. I think we've already established the change and convinced people to get over it the last few forums pages.
Also, in my opinion Desukan is pretty much irrelevant to the Rotom Formes' niches due to it being a ghost type with almost different aspects to it. Besides Special Attacking, of course. -Different typing and all.-
I didn't like the rotoms losing ghost initially but I don't think they permanently suck just because they don't have it anymore. Ofc, I'd prefer if they kept them, but now they have some new niches (Rotom-H=guaranteed Scizor counter and nice offensive typing, Rotom-W=better Lanturn in pretty much every regard, Rotom-C just seems pretty good at a glance, Rotom-F is a good hail team member, Rotom-S is the exception, it's just lol).
But remember we have a ton of new options, with Desukaan, Burungeru (hi I get taunt), Goruugu and Shandera, not to mention we have oldies like Gengar and even Froslass.
But remember we have a ton of new options, with Desukaan, Burungeru (hi I get taunt), Goruugu and Shandera, not to mention we have oldies like Gengar and even Froslass.
soul_survivor
VGCPL Champion
i thought of it like this. the rotom's lose ghost form but gain a new incredible stab for each form. No one likes taking taking a STAB overheat from a pokemon like rotom. also lets not forget washing machine rotom gets only 1 weakness(grass) correct me if i'm wrong.
How can rotom-H be a better scizor-counter if it doesn't trap him (if you predict him to use neither u-turn or superpower, you've killed him basically)?
Anyway, I really though the rotom formes had overpowered resistances and banned myself from using them because I thought they were too cheap, so I'm really glad that they lost their ghost typing, although I imagine rotom wash to be a real pain in the ass.
Anyway, I really though the rotom formes had overpowered resistances and banned myself from using them because I thought they were too cheap, so I'm really glad that they lost their ghost typing, although I imagine rotom wash to be a real pain in the ass.
Not to mention Rotom-A's Shadow Ball STAB was optional at best. All Rotom-A really needed in the fourth generation was its respective coverage move, Thunderbolt/Discharge, an obligatory Hidden Power, and filler. Shadow Ball was very rarely used because of meh damage output with less Special Attack investment.
Its countering utility against Scizor has lost its shine since the movement of the fifth generation (U-Turn pivot). However, there's more fish in the sea than Scizor. With Rotom-H's defensive spread and some Special Attack investment, it takes very little damage from Scizor's attacks.lumpor said:
Not sure if anyone has brought this up or not, but since each Rotom form is clearly different now (with different weaknesses/resistances and not just a single different move), I believe that they should now be counted separately for usage statistics. After all, it seems clear that Rotom-H and Rotom-W are much better competitively than the other three.
soul_survivor
VGCPL Champion
freeze rotom takes care of the abubdance of dragons. so freeze rotom is also useful.
Fridgetom will probably still see use on Hail teams given that it now has STAB Blizzard although under just about every other circumstance you're better off using H or W. I really can't see any worthwhile use for the other two though, especially for the poor Fan which is even more useless now that it was initially.
I know this doesn't contribute, but I had to.
Rotom Spin with a Balloon and Baton-Passed Magnet Rise.
Not overkill.
Rotom Spin with a Balloon and Baton-Passed Magnet Rise.
Not overkill.
Levitate helps it if it gets hit by that move that changes your type to a water type...yeah. It doesn't function in gravity, sadly.
"
For 5 turns after this move is used, immunity to Ground-type attacks, as well as immunity to Arena Trap, Toxic Spikes, and Spikes as a result of the Flying type, the Levitate ability, or Magnet Rise, is nullified. Further, the use of Bounce, Fly, Hi Jump Kick, Jump Kick, Magnet Rise, and Splash is prevented. If Fly or Bounce is in the process of being charged, the user immediately stops using the move when Gravity is used. During the effect, the evasion of all Pokémon on the field is multiplied by 3/5."
So it's useless, really.
"
For 5 turns after this move is used, immunity to Ground-type attacks, as well as immunity to Arena Trap, Toxic Spikes, and Spikes as a result of the Flying type, the Levitate ability, or Magnet Rise, is nullified. Further, the use of Bounce, Fly, Hi Jump Kick, Jump Kick, Magnet Rise, and Splash is prevented. If Fly or Bounce is in the process of being charged, the user immediately stops using the move when Gravity is used. During the effect, the evasion of all Pokémon on the field is multiplied by 3/5."
So it's useless, really.
Now that you mention it I suppose Mowtom could actually have some practical use in the lower tiers. Especially with Gastrodon getting a buff and the new Water/Ground been thrown into the mix.
Fantom really is just useless though, Air Slash is a pretty poor STAB move in comparison to all the other Rotom (GF could have at least given it Gale) and if that wasn't enough; unlike all the other Rotom Formes it doesn't have a unique typing and pretty much every set it can run is either outclassed by the other Rotom, or by either Zapdos and Voltros.
Fantom really is just useless though, Air Slash is a pretty poor STAB move in comparison to all the other Rotom (GF could have at least given it Gale) and if that wasn't enough; unlike all the other Rotom Formes it doesn't have a unique typing and pretty much every set it can run is either outclassed by the other Rotom, or by either Zapdos and Voltros.
You would be FOUR TIMES IMMUNE to their Ground type attacks. Surely that's the Pokemon equivilent to dividing by zero.
The fan is a inferior scizor counter but maybe it can counter breloom....
Its still inferior to zapdos though. Uu maybe
Its still inferior to zapdos though. Uu maybe
A guy uses waterlog on rotom, then u-turns out to mold breaker rampardos who uses protect and stalls out magnet rise. Rampardos used earthquake. It's super effective!
You're never safe.
Rotom W is absolutely deadly in this metagame. It's incredibly bulky even without any investment in defenses. It takes about 50% from CB max attack Roobushin (and can OHKO back with Specs Hydro Pump) and takes about 35% from Doryuzu's Rock Slide and about 45% from Doryuzu's Return (and once again can OHKO back with Hydro Pump). It has a great typing, especially for a defensive pokemon.
It's got decent speed as well. Although 86 may not seem like much, it is enough to outspeed certain pokemon such as Suicune, Kingdra, Heracross, and Nidoking. If given a Choice Scarf, this decent Speed Stat becomes great. It can outrun Adamant Tyranitar after two Dragon Dances, Gyrados after one, Manaphy, and Starmie. These pokemon are extremely threatening pokemon, but luckily most can be OHKO'd and outsped. If you are going for the Choice Scarf set, Rotom H isn't a bad idea either. It can OHKO Scizor, Jarooda, and Nattorei. You also might want HP Water on a Choice Scarf set to nail Shandera.
Finally, this thing packs a punch, especially with Choice Specs. Not many things can take even resisted attacks from a Specs Rotom. Its STAB has a very good STAB combination, but it becomes even better with HP Ice. Special Attacks are becoming more important with bulk up abusers like Roobushin and Zuruzukin running around. Rotom has the power to take them all out with its super powerful STAB moves, Thunderbolt and Hydro Pump. It can nail walls like Blissey with Trick, rendering them useless.
Overall, Rotom misses its Ghost typing, but it is still just as powerful as it was in Gen IV.
Rotom-W@ Choice Specs
Modest
4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
--Thunderbolt
--Hydro Pump
--HP Ice
--Trick
Rotom-W/Rotom-H@ Choice Scarf
Timid
4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
--Thunderbolt
--Hydro Pump/Overheat
--HP Ice/HP Water
--Trick/Volt Change
It's got decent speed as well. Although 86 may not seem like much, it is enough to outspeed certain pokemon such as Suicune, Kingdra, Heracross, and Nidoking. If given a Choice Scarf, this decent Speed Stat becomes great. It can outrun Adamant Tyranitar after two Dragon Dances, Gyrados after one, Manaphy, and Starmie. These pokemon are extremely threatening pokemon, but luckily most can be OHKO'd and outsped. If you are going for the Choice Scarf set, Rotom H isn't a bad idea either. It can OHKO Scizor, Jarooda, and Nattorei. You also might want HP Water on a Choice Scarf set to nail Shandera.
Finally, this thing packs a punch, especially with Choice Specs. Not many things can take even resisted attacks from a Specs Rotom. Its STAB has a very good STAB combination, but it becomes even better with HP Ice. Special Attacks are becoming more important with bulk up abusers like Roobushin and Zuruzukin running around. Rotom has the power to take them all out with its super powerful STAB moves, Thunderbolt and Hydro Pump. It can nail walls like Blissey with Trick, rendering them useless.
Overall, Rotom misses its Ghost typing, but it is still just as powerful as it was in Gen IV.
Rotom-W@ Choice Specs
Modest
4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
--Thunderbolt
--Hydro Pump
--HP Ice
--Trick
Rotom-W/Rotom-H@ Choice Scarf
Timid
4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
--Thunderbolt
--Hydro Pump/Overheat
--HP Ice/HP Water
--Trick/Volt Change
Overkill is never enough.
All Mold Breaker does is get rid of Levitate.
It's still a Flying Type.
You need to have Kecleon Skill Swap it Color Change and use a non-Flying/Ground damaging move, then stall out Magnet Rise.
That's what Waterlog was for.
We've practically already established that Magnet Rise + Levitate is already overkill, and Rampardos is an irrelevant one-hit man in this case because it's so rare. The "competitive" use of Kecleon and Waterlog in this case is suggesting we're milking the subject >>
Also, ignoring traces of theorymon, how does Rotom-W and Rotom-H really do in a new metagame of >600 Pokemon? Since we have new threats and all, I can't help but think 86 Speed and decent 105 Speed is going to cut it in some cases.
Also, ignoring traces of theorymon, how does Rotom-W and Rotom-H really do in a new metagame of >600 Pokemon? Since we have new threats and all, I can't help but think 86 Speed and decent 105 Speed is going to cut it in some cases.
I don't know if people realized this but, Rotom Heat has a boltbeam reistance with EQ immunity. That's pretty good typing. the 4x steel immunity also comes in handy.
Only has two weaknesses and you can see them coming. Overheat/Thunderbolt is really good offensively, and the things it can beat are so numerous.
Only has two weaknesses and you can see them coming. Overheat/Thunderbolt is really good offensively, and the things it can beat are so numerous.
I think Rotom-F is the BoltBeam king, though. Resistance and STAB for both (except it doesn't actually get Beam, though Blizzard is close enough).
I even run volt change over thunderbolt and don't feel the loss on my scarftom. I've had only one instance of a ground type switching in on me; it was a Garchomp, and I had to wonder what he was thinking, risking a hidden power [ice] like that. I mean, I hadn't brought him out before, but Rotom-H usually runs HP [ice], right? Plus, if it had been a SpecsTom, he would've been crippled be trick, had I chose to use it, which I usually do. Back on topic: Rotom-H is amazing for patching teambuilding holes. Rotom-W may be a more solid teammate to construct a team from scratch with him in mind, but the sheer efficacy with which Rotom-H counters a few notables (Scizor, Hetran, Magnezone, Jalorda, and Voltolos to a lesser degree) is like a plaster cast to heal my team's broken bones - and then crack the skulls of my opponents.
Rotom-W is more common in my experience. It's tougher to kill for a lot of people. But I rarely construct teams without a strong grass type, and that does just as good of a job in taking down Rotom-W as strong Rock types do in taking down Rotom-H, and a much better job than water types. And with stuff such as technician Breloom and perversity Jalorda, there's all the more reason to pack a threatening grass type.
I am honestly of the belief that once people actually start putting Rotom-H onto more teams, they'll discover that he has about as much use as Rotom-W, exchanging some general usability for great potency in certain uses.
Sorry for the long rambling response. I'm tired.
I agree, ever since Water/Electric landed on someone with better stats than Lanturn a powerful Grass-type has been the staple for any team hoping to cover all the bases. Lanturn was great enough with its typing alone and some defensive investment, but Rotom-W is much, much worse, considering it can actually dent Tinkerbell Celebi (the ones that actually carry an attack that doesn't do 40 base damage against Rotom-W) with Shadow Ball.
Rotom-W is definitely one of the reasons to carry a powerful grass-type, though they got an upgrade in general.
I'm wondering if it would be better suited to an offensive or defensive role, however. Kerudio is arguably better at sweeping with its higher speed, higher SpA, Calm Mind, and a way to get past Blissey. Rotom-W could probably be very effective in carving out a defensive niche, though.
I'm wondering if it would be better suited to an offensive or defensive role, however. Kerudio is arguably better at sweeping with its higher speed, higher SpA, Calm Mind, and a way to get past Blissey. Rotom-W could probably be very effective in carving out a defensive niche, though.