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Rotom-H (Revamp)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by alexwolf, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    [​IMG]
    Rotom-H

    [Overview]

    <p>Although Rotom-H gained no improvements in BW2, the metagame became more friendly towards it; Thundurus-T and Sheer Force Landorus were introduced, and Rotom-H is a good check to them. In addition, Rotom-H can serve as a roadblock against many Pokemon commonly found on sun teams, such as Ninetales, Venusaur, and Volcarona, further increasing its usefulness as a defensive Pokemon. Rotom-H also has Volt Switch, Thunder Wave, and Will-O-Wisp in its arsenal, which coupled with its eight immunities and resistances, makes it a great pivot and status spreader. Rotom-H can also go on the offensive with a Choice Specs set and sun support, as it has great dual STABs, Volt Switch to keep momentum, and great resistances to work with, temporarily shielding sun teams from otherwise problematic Pokemon such as Sheer Force Landorus.</p>

    <p>However, this is where the temperature cools down for Rotom-H. Its Stealth Rock weakness is its biggest downfall, greatly limiting its viability as a defensive and a hit-and-run Pokemon. The prevalence of rain teams is another thorn in Rotom-H's side, as Water attacks will be flying everywhere and Rotom-H's main STAB move will have its power halved, leaving it unable to properly damage many Pokemon that it checks. Finally, the lack of a reliable recovery move and its mediocre Speed stat makes it much harder to fulfill its defensive and offensive duties.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Volt Switch
    move 2: Overheat
    move 3: Thunder Wave / Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Pain Split
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With this set Rotom-H is able to check many prominent threats such as Scizor, Venusaur, Thundurus-T, and Sheer Force Landorus. It also functions well against sun teams, which struggle to do meaningful damage to it. Volt Switch is the primary move, dealing solid damage and giving the switch advantage, while also mitigating the Special Attack drops caused by Overheat. Overheat is Rotom-H's nuke, and usually OHKOes the Pokemon that Rotom-H checks or walls, such as Venusaur, Scizor, and weakened Landorus. However, being forced out after one use is a letdown, so use it wisely. Thunder Wave cripples most special attackers that Rotom-H checks, and is generally annoying for offensive Pokemon, while Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers that Rotom-H can't touch otherwise such as Garchomp, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon. Pain Split rounds off the set, providing Rotom-H with a way, albeit unreliable, to stay healthy.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs go to HP and Special Defense due to Rotom-H's main role being a check to certain special attackers. Thunderbolt or alternately Thunder (on a rain team) can be used over the status move to have an Electric STAB move that doesn't force you out. Toxic can also be used to screw some of Rotom-H's biggest counters, namely Latias, Gastrodon, and specially defensive Hippowdon. Hidden Power Ice gives Rotom-H important coverage against Ground-types such as Garchomp, Dragonite, Gliscor, and Landorus; it is advised to use 96 SpA EVs with it so that Rotom-H can OHKO Landorus after Stealth Rock. It should also be noted that specially defensive Rotom-H can be used on rain teams, despite having its strongest move halved in power, as it greatly helps against sun teams and checks some problematic threats for rain teams such as Thundurus-T, Jolteon, and Celebi. If used on a rain team, Hidden Power Ice can be used instead of Overheat. However, Overheat is still very useful against Scizor, Forretress, and Ferrothorn; the latter of whom is really important as it is a roadblock for many rain teams.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin support is absolutely vital to Rotom-H's success, as Stealth Rock can allow Pokemon it otherwise checks, such as Venusaur, to muscle past it. Starmie, Tentacruel, and Forretress are all good choices due to good defensive synergy, but Starmie really stands out as the best spinner to pair Rotom-H with, due to its durability and its ability to beat common spinblockers. Rotom-H's counters in OU are the following: Gastrodon, specially defensive Hippowdon, Chansey, and Blissey. Garchomp, Gliscor, and Landorus-T are all decent checks as long as they avoid Hidden Power Ice or Will-O-Wisp. Ferrothorn is a perfect partner, as it resists Rotom-H's weaknesses, walling many Pokemon that trouble Rotom-H, and sets up entry hazards that work fantastically with Rotom-H's Volt Switch. Jirachi is another great partner; it has great defensive synergy with Rotom-H and provides Wish support, allowing Rotom-H to heal more reliably and even forgo Pain Split, freeing up a moveslot. Celebi, Breloom, and Amoonguss can all scare out the majority of Ground-types that can switch into Rotom-H, and then proceed to either put something to sleep, spread paralysis, set up Stealth Rock, set up with a boosting move, or straight up pound the switch-in with powerful attacks.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Overheat
    move 2: Volt Switch
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Trick / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Rotom-H can forgo all its defensive ideals in favor of becoming a powerful lure and wallbreaker. Unfortunately, Rotom-H's selection of moves and middling speed, not to mention its weakness to Stealth Rock, mean that it won't be sweeping anytime soon. Still, this set should not be underestimated, as even Chansey loses around half her health if she dares to switch-in on a sun-boosted Specs Overheat. While this set initially appears to be outclassed by Heatran, the latter lacks a way to maintain momentum and a usable secondary STAB, has problems dealing with bulky Water-types, and is threatened by Dugtrio, all of which are problems Rotom-H circumvents.</p>

    <p>Overheat, when boosted by Choice Specs, STAB, and Sun, is exceedingly powerful, and destroys anything that doesn't resist it (and some things that do) not named Chansey or Blissey. Volt Switch is a useful scouting tool that is also extremely powerful against Water-types. Thanks to Volt Switch and Thunderbolt, bulky Water-types, especially Politoed, must think twice about coming in to absorb Overheat. Thunderbolt is Rotom-H's most reliable STAB move, and the one it should be using when it doesn't want to switch out; Thunderbolt also allows Rotom-H to 2HKO offensive Heatran after Stealth Rock damage. Rotom-H generally doesn't need more coverage than its STABs offer, thanks to Overheat's godly power under sun. Trick is the option in the last slot to cripple Blissey and Chansey. Alternatively, Hidden Power Ice can be used to OHKO Garchomp and Dragonite without Multiscale, and to pressure Latias.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Rotom-H absolutely hates Stealth Rock, especially considering that its main STABs necessitate heavy switching, so Rapid Spin or Magic Bounce support is a must. Xatu stands out as a partner due to its ability to Toxic stall Chansey and Blissey, two Pokemon that are difficult for Rotom-H to deal with, and its ability to form a VoltTurn combo with Rotom-H by using U-turn. Ninetales is also an essential partner, as sun is what makes Overheat so powerful and hard to switch into. If you aren't using a sun team, you are probably better off with another Rotom forme.</p>

    <p>Overheat's extreme power leaves Rotom-H with a few viable options to use in its other slots. Any Hidden Power can be considered, but a neutral sun-boosted Overheat does more damage even a 4x super effective Hidden Power, and Overheat can often do the job, even when resisted. Hidden Power Fighting is useful for Tyranitar, 2HKOing all positively-natured 252 HP / 252 SpD versions but has little use outside of hitting Tyranitar. In the same vein, Hidden Power Ground can be used to deal better with Heatran; Thunderbolt only 2HKOes offensive variants, while Hidden Power Ground 2HKOes even the most specially bulky Heatran and easily OHKOes offensive variants. But again, it has no use outside of that, and you are better off using Dugtrio as a teammate. Hidden Power Grass is a nasty surprise for Gastrodon, but other Water / Ground type Pokémon like Swampert and Quagsire are 2HKOed by sun-boosted Overheat anyway.</p>

    <p>Dugtrio and Terrakion stand out as great partners for Rotom-H. The former traps three Pokemon that give headaches to Rotom-H: Tyranitar, Heatran, and Terrakion. A Rotom-H with Trick can even remove Shed Shell, Choice Scarf, or Shuca Berry from those threats, all items that prevent Dugtrio from effectively trapping them. With Dugtrio removing the aforementioned Pokemon, Rotom-H can freely spam Overheat. On the other hand, Terrakion defeats Chansey and Blissey, and opens holes in the opponent's team that Rotom-H can later take advantage of.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Rotom-H can use Rest + Chesto Berry for a one-time reliable recovery. Hidden Power Ground is an option on the specially defensive set to 2HKO offensive Heatran, but has no other use. Rotom-H can run a Choice Scarf set with the same moves as the Choice Specs set, allowing it to be both fast and powerful under sun, but then Rotom-H loses a ton of its wallbreaking power, and is a mediocre revenge killer due to its Stealth Rock weakness and low Speed. Hidden Power Rock is an option to consider if your team has huge trouble with Volcarona, but Volcarona will more often than not win anyway because of the Special Defense boosts from Quiver Dance and Roost, and Thunder Wave deals with Volcarona much better anyway, provided Rotom-H has a strong physical attacker that can hit Volcarona hard as a teammate. An all-out attacker with Life Orb and Pain Split has some merit, as Rotom-H will still be quite powerful under sun, while being able to switch moves and keep itself somewhat healthy. However, you will find out that due to the hit and run nature of Rotom-H, Stealth Rock damage in addition to Life Orb damage is too much for it to handle. Finally, Rotom-H is the only Fire-type except for Victini that can use the Trick + Flame Orb combination. The cool thing is that unlike Pokemon such as Reuniclus and Sigilyph, Rotom-H can hold the Flame Orb and the opponent cannot see it after the first turn, which means that Rotom-H can easily bluff a Choice set and then Trick it onto unsuspecting counters, namely Blissey, Chansey, and Tyranitar. However, considering that Rotom-H already has Will-O-Wisp which can be used many times, and only takes a moveslot, unlike Trick + Flame Orb, which needs one item slot and one moveslot in addition to being only a one use move, the only real use of this combination is to permanently cripple Chansey and Blissey.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Gastrodon, Chansey, and Blissey are the only surefire counters to Rotom-H, but they must beware of Trick, and in Gastrodon's case Toxic. Tyranitar, Garchomp, Hippowdon, specially defensive Heatran, Landorus-T, and Gliscor all handle the defensive set easily as long as they avoid Will-O-Wisp or Hidden Power Ice, except for Heatran obviously, which completely walls it and can slowly kill it with Toxic. Any Dragon-type in general, or physical attacker with Rock moves, will be able to force Rotom-H out easily, provided they can get in safely on a predicted Fire or Electric move. Such Pokemon include Terrakion, Dragonite, Haxorus, Kyurem-B, Latios, Latias, Landorus-T, and physical Landorus. They must, however, beware of sun-boosted Overheat, which will OHKO most of them after Stealth Rock. Every offensive Pokemon with a strong Water or Rock move, such as Keldeo, Starmie, Landorus-T, and Terrakion, can easily revenge kill Rotom-H. Rain will also hinder Rotom-H's performance a bit, unless if it was designed to play under it, cutting its most powerful move in half, but Politoed cannot switch into Rotom-H at all due to the threat of Volt Switch. Finally, Stealth Rock and a reliable spinblocker such as Sableye or Jellicent can severely limit Rotom-H's utility.</p>


    ***The Specs set was written by Dark Fallen Angel so credit to him.***
  2. Jukain

    Jukain fuck macle
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    kkk i guess i'll tell you a few things.

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - mention that thunder wave is particularly useful for chlorophyll sweepers
    - mention the drawbacks of overheat to a bulky pokemon, it's pretty damn annoying that it isn't powerful after the first time
    - specifically mention the benefits of a slow volt switch, in that it allows things to get in unscathed most of the time, which is pretty dang beneficial
    - you should probably mention its resistances/immunities to grass, fire, electric, ground and flying, a quite unique set of resistances/immunities
    - talk about its selling point over rotom-w, its grass resistance

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - if you're gonna mention hidden powers, mention hp ground for heatran/ninetales
    - mention that starmie lures electric and grass attacks that rotom-h can switch in on
    - probably mention fwg core, particularly amoonguss and tenta i guess
    - most (read: all) dragons are heavily crippled by Thunder Wave, so they really don't do that well
    - mention using it on sun to beat other sun

    lol this sounds so much like commanding and crap. it's just my two cents, take from it what you will.
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Comments in bold.

    EDIT: I just though of something... Would it be a good idea to lower Rotom-H's Speed iv to make him reach 189 Speed, one speed below 0 Speed Heatran, so you can switch into him, then take the hit, and bring something else safely with Volt Switch? There is nothing important between 208 and 189 Speed that you miss on outspeeding anyway. There is RestTalk Gyarados, but nobody would ever bring their defensive Gyarados into Rotom-H. So it seems like a good idea no?
  4. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    There is Min-Speed Dragonite, whether it be MixNite or the annoying Parashuffler set.
  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Only Parashuffler Nite runs min Speed. Him and Tank Dnite, which is a relic anyway. Not only this, but parashuffling Dnite cannot do anything back. You would be able to status it if you were faster, true, but so many pokes can deal with it anyway, so it seems like a non issue.

    So guys what do you think? Is it worth it to get a slow Volt Switch against SpD Heatran, or not?
  6. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

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    Since many of the partners you mentioned for Rotom-H really dislike Heatran, I think it's a good idea. Speaking of partners, you may want to mention Xatu. The most obvious reason is that it blocks SR from going up, but it also forms a VoltTurn core with Rotom, and does great against the pink blobs.
  7. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Things are not looking strong for Specially defensive Rotom-H. I would let it's SR weakness slide if it had reliable recovery, but alas it does not. It's SR weakness severely compromises its ability to check things throughout a match. Rotom-H's ability to check and counter things is directly tied to the life of the spinner it is paired with (which get worn down fast in the first place). I wouldn't reccomend Xatu as a partner. Xatu would compound your weakness to sand teams and screw you over if your opponent runs SR Ttar (both Xatu and Rotom-H get hit by Rocks -.-). Forry is nice to pair up with Rotom-H to provide Tspikes to mess up its usual counters like Bulky Waters, TTar, and Chansey.

    I would explore Rest Talk with Wil-o-Wisp/HP Fire>Overheat. Yes HP Fire just in case you are in for more than 4 turns.
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    I would argue the opposite. The metagame is pretty much favoring Rotom-H's apperance, as he can check more threats than ever. Yeah he is SR weak, but he has semi-reliable recovery, and unlike many defensive mons, can keep momentum, meaning that spinning is very easy to do with a partner such as Starmie. SpD Heatran comes to wall you? Just Volt Switch to Starmie and Rapid Spin on his face.

    RestTalk sucks and shouldn't be considered as an option on a poke that aims to abuse Volt Switch and is SR weak (not that it should considered in other pokes). HP Fire is useless too as Rotom-H is not going to stay in more than 2-3 turns, in which case Overheat is better.

    Also to the guy that said that i don't have many partners that beat Heatran... I have Tentacruel and Starmie, which both handle him good, while also providing spin support, which is almost mandatory when using Rotom-H. If anyone wants to suggest some more i am all ears.
  9. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    Tested this Rotom-H set on a weatherless balanced team I was working with the other day, and I have to say it was extremely underwhelming to use. With how common SR is in this metagame, and how difficult it can be to remove, a rocks-weak Pokemon that's packing Volt Switch as its most used move on the set does not function well at all. I actually expected this set to be pretty good, have to say I'm very disappointed in its performance.
  10. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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  11. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    It's funny Pocket, on my Dark Horse team I have a similar FWG core (but with a Regen core + Rotom-H instead of your hazard-centric core) plus Lando-T. Of course I haven't had half the success you've had, but I certainly felt that Rotom-H did its job well, even though I'd changed its moveset a bit for my personal use...And I don't even have a rapid spinner
  12. asterat

    asterat

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    Not a counter to special landorus or venusaur
  13. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

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    Sorry for being unclear, what I meant was that some partners that you mentioned, specifically Ferrothorn, Amoonguss, and Celebi, don't like switching into Heatran, which si why under speeding it with Volt Switch may be a good option. Of course if you're running rain this is much less of an issue.
  14. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Ok can i have some QC input already? This has been up for ~1 week, and no QC opinions so far, except from Pocket saying it is good and Lavos Spawn saying it is underwhelming. I mean that we all know what SpD Rotom-H does, and even if sometimes it can be underwhelming due to SR weakness, it is viable if only because of Genesect.

    So could i get some extra AC that i might be missing, and approvals/rejections, as there are not much left to be said for this guy, it is pretty simple mon.
  15. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    alexwolf, Rotom-H needs a BW2 revamp. Please include Overview, OO, and Checks & Counters ;d
  16. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I gave Rotom-H a test run on the ladder, it ended up being pretty decent. That SR weakness is unfortunate, and the argument that you can "consistently keep rocks off the field for rotom-h" doesn't fly because it's not a offensive Pokemon that comes out maybe once our twice, it's switching in multiple times to check Genesect. I found that I couldn't rocks off forever, so it wasn't an effective check later in the game... however, it's still worthwhile because its a top notch check to Genesect, and unlike Heatran it doesn't care about Dugtrio (somewhat significant). I don't see the harm in the underspeeding Heatran, since all you need is a Sassy nature and not much else.

    The SpD set gets a pass from me. I'm now going to test the Specs set for Dark Fallen Angel, to see if it's viable.
  17. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    But the set is not posted here. I want to know if my thread could be restored so that alexwolf can pick what I've posted and combine with what he posted here, and then delete my thread again.

    EDIT: Also, I must say that alexwolf's set is also good. In some aspects it was better than my own set. The Specially defensive set has the advantage of being able to survive, while the Specs set is much more powerful, but requires more support overall. I hope that you like the Specs set, however.
  18. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Added Overview and stuff, let's get this ready guys!
  19. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Tested Specially Defensive and its decent. SR is a massive (BAN ME PLEASE) but it was a decent check to sun, as well as still giving me a STAB Volt Switch vs Rain. Good enough for an analysis IMO
  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Btw here is the Specs set: http://pastebin.com/Z4hLkpPJ.

    What should i do with it guys? Copy paste it in this thread, so that the QC team can talk about it?
  21. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    yeah go right ahead
  22. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Added all of it. I put DFA's checks and counters part in a hide tag. Of 'course not both c&c parts will be in the final c&c part, as many of them are rewording the same things, but i wanted to put both, so i can get your opinions. If anyone thinks something is missing from my c&c that DFA mentioned, just tell me and i will include it, while removing it from his, so that we can eventually have one c&c part.

    I also took the initiative and slashed HP Ground in the last 2 slots of the Specs set, as luring and killing Heatran is a godsend for Sun teams.
  23. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    There was a thing that I forgot to mention in the Specs set; another advantage that it has over Heatran is acess to Volt Switch, wich lets him preserve momentum, and Trick, wich makes the pink blobs think twice about switching in, unlike Heatran.

    Heatran packs a higher punch and better defensive tipying along with better bulk. However it is slower, you must predict corretly or risk losing momentum, and it can't deal with the pink blobs as easily. Its secondary STAB is also useless offesively speaking. Rotom-H doesn't have these sort of problem.

    Victini is bulkier and V-Create is more powerful, but Victini is half Psychic. This makes him neutral to U-Turn and vulnerable to Pursuit, especially considering that its V-Create lower its defenses and speed. Because of this, Rotom-H isn't as vulnerable to Tyranitar as Victini; a Choice Band Adamant Tyranitar only deals over 80% to Rotom-H, while even a Tyranitar with no investiment in Atk can OHKO Victini with Pursuit, assuming that it switches and has used V-Create once. Alias, Rotom-H's Overheat is still powerful even after the SpA drop and doesn't make him as prone to revenge killing. It also receives STAB on the Electric-type attack and the scouting move (in Rotom-H's case, Volt Switch).

    Also, I thougth of putting HP Ground and/or Fighting as main options, but I didn't know if they would be accepted outside Additional Comments.
  24. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Here are my thoughts:

    Specially Defensive

    ~ Rotom-H isn't exactly a good counter against Heatran since it cannot do much against it other than paralyzing it.

    ~ I would also not consider Rotom-H a counter but a solid check to Sheer Force Landorus and +2 Thundurus, as their Focus Blasts can 2HKO Rotom-H while Rotom-H fails to OHKO Landorus and 2HKO Thundurus-T with HP Ice. It's a solid counter to Tornadus-T, Genesect, and Venusaur, though.

    ~ Concerning using Rotom-H in Rain, you can mention that Overheat is still useful for a high chance to OHKO Ferrothorn, although it has become less of a pain ever since Keldeo & therians dropped in.

    More importantly Rotom-H can't tank those special threats with SR up. Now LO Thundurus-T & RP Landorus will solidly 2HKO without any boosts. +2 LO Sludge Bomb from Modest Venusaur would also OHKO Rotom-H after SR damage.

    Choice Specs

    ~ I personally prefer HP Ice slashed over HP Ground - Rotom-H can always Volt Switch out of a Heatran switch-in anyways.

    HP Ice is nice to OHKO Dragonite without MultiScale and to pressure defensive Latias more effectively than Overheat, since Roost-stalling would be very difficult. HP Ice is also useful when facing Rain teams, as it hits super-effectively against Thundurus-T.

    The placement of HP Ice and HP Ground is up for debate, of course.

    and Heatran

    's Heatran, TTar & Pink Blobs

    HP Grass is an OHKO on Swampert; better yet, remove mention of Swampert.

    Other Options

    ~ You can mention HP Rock I guess, but mention that Volcarona would more often than not win out anyways. Mention that Thunder Wave is more useful for crippling Volcarona.

    Checks & Counters looks good. Mention that Stealth Rock and a reliable spinblocker like Sableye / Jellicent can severely limit Rotom-H's utility.
  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Thx Pocket added everything! As you correctly stated, Rotom-H doesn't counter some of the pokes i said it does, so i rephrased the sentence and used the word handles instead.

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