RSE BL List

[FlareBlitz]

Hi there! ADV UU is a part of UUPL, and after playing it and finding it legitimately fun, I think it would be a good idea to make the BL list less bad.

Now, I'm sure you have a few questions for me:

1) Why is the current BL list so bad?

While I do not have extensive experience with Adv UU, I can sincerely say that Jumpluff almost certainly does not break the metagame in half. While some of the BL Pokemon are definitely valid (like Moltres) there are plenty of others like Jumpluff who would only add diversity to the tier. The BL list consists of 50 Pokemon, which is extremely excessive.

2) How do you propose to fix it?

This is the fun part! There are a few ways we could go about determining a better BL list, and this is ideally where I'd like the discussion to focus around. I can think of one possible option: Use UUPL as a sort of testing ground - we will drop most of BL down (within the confines of the tournament) and post our impressions of the metagame and how the new arrivals fare, which would then inform our decision to ban (or not ban) certain Pokemon. We will also have other multi-generation UU tournaments, and data from these will refine the list further.

There are other options for how to approach this, and I am certainly open to them. I just wanted to get this thread up and running so that we have justification to go play a fun new metagame in UUPL.

 

[kd24]

i think the issue with pluff was the fast sleep powder? regardless, i am not a fan of changing a tier so drastically mid uupl, but on the other hand, i think bl and uu do need a review and revamp, similar to how dpp did it.

and yet on the other hand, i have to ask "is adv uu being played enough that this is a priority?". at the end of the day, i guess its up to the adv uu players if they wouldnt mind this shift happening, although current adv uu has been this way for so long im sure a few players signed up with the intention to play it as such in mind.

 

[PK Gaming]

I'm fine with dropping all of the BL Pokemon into UU and using common sense to form the initial BL list. I know that ADV UU is a dead tier, but it really bothers me that the BL tier is filled with Pokemon who were placed in due to arbitrary reasons, and it just isn't accurate.

Even RBY and GSC recently had their lower tiers sorted out! I think we owe it to ourselves to make every tier accurate, even if they aren't being played.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

I think it could be a fun project, and could make for a much more enjoyable ADV UU (kind of like fixing the theory banlist for DP UU ended up doing)

I'm usually not huge on messing with dead metagames, but I think maybe if we kept two banlists (ADV UU Classic and New ADV UU), there'd be no reason to try it out just to see what we end up with. The only issue of course would be drumming up enough activity to actually create an optimal banlist. It's a process that could last a while and would need a large amount of players to do. I'm not sure of anyway to do that. Maybe run some sort of tourney? An irc channel? I have no clue.

 

[Style_Dota]

I think if you gave a solid incentive for participating, you could get an active enough userbase to help get this project going (maybe having it count as like two suspect votes for TC badge or something).

 

[danilo]

I really don't think that we should be touching an old tier that is perfectly balanced and excellent the way it is. I really can't see any BL Pokemon being dropped that won't cause problems, except maybe Jumpluff, but I still have my doubts about that. Dropping BLs to diversify an already very diverse tier is unnecessary. And I don't think many ADV UU players would enjoy having all of their teams ruined in UUPL to account for likely broken BL to UU drops. There are no benefits to dropping certain BLs to UU, except for maybe it will be fun. Keep the great metagame the same.

 

[gene]

the uu metagame was pretty well-balanced, this makes about as much sense as suddenly changing rby hyper beam mechanics.

there was a time when people played uu/bl in summer freedom and pokerealm tournaments, and those games were always centralized around the 1 or 2 bl pokemon that were allowed on the team. i think the vast majority of people who played both pure uu and uu/bl would agree that uu was more varied and interesting.

 

[Pocket]

I think there are quite a few obvious ones that can be dropped into UU without causing uber centralization:

Arcanine - ok this may be pushing it, but I believe there are enough fire resists in uu
Armaldo - slow
Chansey - No eviolite, why not?
Hariyama - quite a good mon, but it's speed put its down; not to mention there are plenty of fighting-resists to handle it.
Jumpluff - it's a piece of shit
Registeel - non-op utility mon
Ursaring - hits hard, but slow & squishable

 

[gene]

actually arcanine and ursaring were probably the most centralizing of all the bls back then.

 

[danilo]

User Dekzeh says:

I think doing this in the middle of the UUPL would be terrible. Giving us a completely unstable metagame with probably multiple broken things to play in a 'serious' tournament? Nah. I also disagree heavily with just theorymon unbanning some of the Pokes and not all. It would be just commiting the same mistake that originated this current BL list

The best way to do this would be after the UUPL is done, drop all of the BL's and do a proper test, cause in the end some of the poke's will balance each other. The obvious downside here is that current ADV UU is a very fun and balanced tier that will get lost with that change, but for the sake of consitency such a change must be done. Also its questionable wheter there is enough of a player base to do such a test, but I do believe this is the only way to go about this issue.

he smells