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RU Analyses Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'BW RU Analyses' started by Oglemi, Oct 7, 2011.

  1. Oglemi

    Oglemi berlin,,, pls
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    This thread is for any analyses that have already passed QC or are on site.

    I've noticed in the other tiers that people have been commenting on threads that have already reached the DONE stage asking the OP to add a set or questioning the ones that are already there. This thread is to remedy this problem by allowing people to voice their concerns here, and then the QC team can look into the suggestion.

    So, in other words, Do NOT post in a thread that is already past the QC stage asking for a set to be added or for a different EV spread to be the main one. Voice that concern here. Failure to do so may result in an infraction and a deletion of the post made. However, you are free to make suggestions about the slashing and the ordering of the sets in thread, and of course anything concerning the write-up including adding a counter, teammates, or including something in OO.

    It should also be noted that making piddly "This analysis is awesome" posts should be avoided as they only necro old threads and clutter the sub-forum (however if the write-up is truly exceptional I obviously don't care if you congratulate and praise the writer, just avoid necroing long-dead threads).

    Also, this thread will be for discussing analyses of Pokemon once they are on site.
  2. HuntSaboteur

    HuntSaboteur

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    admitted honko's done the entei analysis, he told me to post any other move sets here...

    Choice Eruption
    Entei @ Choice Scarf/Choice Specs
    Nature: Modest/Timid
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
    -Eruption
    -Hidden Power Grass
    -Fire Blast
    -Stone Edge

    This moveset is intended to be used as a "kamikaze lead", being sent out first and using Eruption straight away. Choice Scarf is preferred but Choice Specs can also be run along with Timid. Fire Blast is there for any late game appearances it may have to make, HP Grass the omnipresent coverage move, and Stone Edge the other coverage move. While using Stone Edge with a negative nature for Attack is a bad idea, it still does heavy damage to Flying-types due to Entei's 115 base Attack. The only rel advantage to Entei over Typhlosion for this purpose is surprise: Typhlosion is statistically far better for this role but everybody expects it, whereas Eruption on Entei is not something often seen.

    CM Stone Edge @ Leftovers/Life Orb
    Nature: Jolly/Timid
    EVs: 64 Atk/192 SpA/252 Spd
    -Calm Mind
    -Fire Blast
    -Stone Edge
    -Hidden Power Grass

    This set is intended for Dream World use, but can also be used with normal Entei. Due to the rise in grass and bug types in RU, there are some Pokemon that cannot counter Entei. It is that spike that lets Entei switch in on things and use Calm Mind. At this point, Calm Mind combines with Entei's natural physical attacking prowess to form a deadly mixed attacking set. Stone Edge handles the ever-increasing numbers of Flying-types and HP Grass is always a staple on any non-Flare Blitz Entei set. The EVs are there to promote Special attack while not completely neglecting Physical.
  3. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    You know, i had an idea for zwelious, a scarf set.
    [SET]
    name: Scarf Zwelious
    move1: Outrage
    move2: Crunch
    move3: Fire fang
    move4: Dragon tail
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Hustle
    Nature: jolly
    evs: 4hp / 252atk / 252spe

    now you may be thinking, what makes this different from the band set? Well, jolly and with a scarf it reaches 354 speed, enough to outspeed base 111's This gives it a whole new range of pokemon it can beat that it couldnt before and allows it to act as a revenge killer as well. Now you may be thinking, its not adamant, it wont hit hard enough! wrong, Jolly zwelious actually has a very high chance to 2hko standard mandibuzz even without Stealth rock, Jolly zwelious's crunch does 75-90% to slowking and it 2hkoes physically defensive ferroseed with fire fang. even with the lack of defensive evs it can still switch into resisted attacks and start spamming outrage. I havent played with it much, but from what i have seen it is relativelt successful. Imo at least this deserves OO.

    Edit: just saw it is now in OO I guess it is still QC's desicion on whether its viable though.

    Oh about gurdurr's evs, Gurdurr with eviolite actually takes hits better than conkeldurr with the same ev spread for example sceptile's giga drain

    120/136 conkeldurr 33.07% - 38.85%
    120/ 136 Gurdurr w/ eviolite 29.03% - 34.31%

    so i suggest that gurdurr's ev spread gets changed to standard conk's ev spread, if conk can live through OU with that spread where attacks are more powerful, so can gurdurr and gurdurr definatley needs the power more.
  4. lars

    lars

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    Ok, I suppose my comments on the electivire analysis should go here. I'll edit this later to include all my comments, but if anyone has comments on a mixed, pure wall breaker set with

    @life orb, rash (naive?) 252 atk, 252 sp. atk
    (Standard mix moves)

    With these evs, Vire can ohko almost every wall in ru, and get the important 2hko on munchlax and he doesn't need the speed because he outruns all the walls anyway.
    (I can move calcs here, but they are currently in the electivire analysis thread.)

    I'm wondering if people think the ohkos are worthy of the ev spread change, and maybe they can be optimized further.

    From my other post
    further statements after using the above set... It never failed me against the walls, easily breaking the common walls not named claydol. However, it does take up a team spot and often there are better cores that can break these walls and also do a much better job of sweeping. My offensive core of Primeape, Typhlosion, and Honchkrow can do everything that Electivire did on my team and more so... I suppose that's the reason people don't use him
  5. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Sceptile needs an LO Swords Dance set. I realize it has an Unburden SD set, and the two play differently enough and run different items, moves, and EV spreads. It also does a lot more damage than Unburden SD can. In my opinion, these things put together warrant a set.

    I propose the Unburden SD set be renamed "Unburden Sweeper" and the LO SD set get the moniker of "Swords Dance", which the Unburden SD set currently has.

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move1: Swords Dance
    move2: Leaf Blade
    move3: Rock Slide
    move4: Brick Break / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    Ability: Overgrow
    Nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    Or something.

    Perks/points for LO SD over Unburden SD:

    - More power.
    - Rock Slide actually hits Moltres and Fire-types instead of making you rely on Flight Gem or SD Acrobatics.
    - Doesn't actually need a Swords Dance to hurt things.
    - More of an all-purpose sweeper whereas the Unburden SD set is restricted to being a late-game cleaner.
    - Doesn't need the opposing team on its last legs to finish it off.
    - Can actually switch without neutering itself if it needs to (if the Unburden set switches, it looses its speed boost).
    - Base 120 Speed is still great for RU. Hell, even with Adamant it's faster than the majority of the unboosted metagame.
    - Doesn't need to use Acrobatics to become fast (the other one is easily outsped by stuff that's faster than Base 100).
    - One turn of setup as opposed to two (counting Unburden activation from Acrobatics) (less opportunity for revenge kills/opposing setup).
    - Much harder to wall.
    - Overgrow boost can kick in due to Damage/Recoil and make Sceptile even stronger.

    Cons/points against LO SD compared to Unburden SD:
    - Slower than Unburden SD after Acrobatics gets off.
    - Not as useful against opposing Fighting-types or Grass-types.
    - Easier to revenge kill than Unburden SD after Acrobatics.
    - LO Recoil does hurt after a while.
  6. Komodo

    Komodo I have a custom title?
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    Don't you think a paragraph explaining different item choices in AC is better than writing a whole new set? And slashing a Jolly nature next to Adamant as well. Writing a whole new set is pretty pointless, they both utilize Swords Dance, the only difference is what item it uses, and what effect the ability has. I'm sure Rock Slide can be slashed with Brick Break too.
  7. EonADS

    EonADS

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    ^ Three problems with that. One, the amount of extrapolation you'd have to do would be at least another paragraph. Two, there would be tons of slashits (Brick Break/EQ, Acrobatics/Brick Break, Adamant/Jolly, Unburden/Overgrow, not to mention the seperate EV spread in AC) which Oglemi would have a fit over (you know how much he hates slashits), not to mention that if Rock Slide should go anywhere it would be over Acrobatics (the second centerpiece of the Unburden set). Three, the two sets play differently and fill different roles. As I said, the LO SD set is more flexible and can work as a sweeper, a late-game cleaner, or just a decent attacker (without an SD set up), and the Unburden SD set is really only good as a cleaner.

    To me, it seems more functional just to write up a second set. If you feel that time constraints are in your way (or whatever), then I can do it.
  8. Komodo

    Komodo I have a custom title?
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    Alright then, would you have a problem if I were to rename the current set to 'Unburden', and make a new Swords Dance set with Overgrow? I have no time problems, I can do this in the matter of an hour.
  9. Oglemi

    Oglemi berlin,,, pls
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    Yeah if the two play significantly different, then a separate set would be highly recommended rather than trying to shove too much stuff on one set.
  10. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent ium and me <3
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    Regarding the Honchkrow analysis, I believe that Taunt should be mentioned in the AC of the first set (Moxie SubRooster). Substitute, coupled with a SR weakness, not to mention BB and LO recoil, means Honchkrow will be losing HP faster than it can regain it. Taunt means that the opponent will be forced to attack, thus aiding Sucker Punch. It's also more useful to nail things like SubSplit Rotom on the switch with Taunt, since you can then KO with Sucker Punch instead of gambling that Rotom will Sub or Thunderbolt. Even if it's not mentioned in the AC, an OO mention would be good, since it's not mentioned anywhere in the analysis, if I read it correctly.
  11. RUisSerperior

    RUisSerperior

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    Hi all, cant really seem to find the right place to post this, but there is an error in the SubCharge magneton set: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/magneton
    It suggests 96 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe for the EV investment
    However, that totals to 524 EVs invested, which is obviously not legally allowed.
    I Figured it should be noted and fixed.
  12. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    In accordance with the above the HP EVs have been dropped to 80 as the speed outspeeds something important. This is fixed (although prolly not cached quite yet).
  13. Cynthia

    Cynthia

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    Shouldn't Cross Chop be mentioned somewhere on Hariyama's analysis? For sets that don't want to run Close Combat (Bulk Up for instance) it just says to run Force Palm for the paralysis, but the difference in base power between Cross Chop and Force Palm is quite large. Cross Chop's accuracy is a little shaky, but it's no worse than Stone Edge.
  14. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    With the tier shifts, a number of things are becoming outdated. One thing I thought of right off the bat is Life Orb Hitmonchan. ThunderPunch should be its primary coverage move now, as both Gligar and Claydol are gone. ThunderPunch hits Slowking and Qwilfish hard while killing Moltres on the switch and retaining coverage on other Flying-types such as Mandibuzz and Aerodactyl. Tangrowth beats Hitmonchan with Ice Punch anyway, so it's hardly worth justifying using Ice Punch over ThunderPunch anymore. The set should probably look like this now.

    move 1: Close Combat / Drain Punch (I personally prefer Drain Punch since it helps longevity as a spinner)
    move 2: Mach Punch (not as important as it used to be but still pretty useful)
    move 3: ThunderPunch
    move 4: Rapid Spin / Ice Punch (Lilligant and Sceptile will both fall to Drain Punch + Mach Punch)

    I guess we need a new spread, too. And remove the several mentions of like all four Pokemon that left. I'm starting to wonder if Hitmonchan should just get a full update.

    Another small thing, I'm thinking HP Ice on Choice Manectric should be moved to AC.
  15. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    I think that Scald should be used instead of Waterfall in Poliwrath's RestTalk set. Scald lets Poliwrath get past things that it should be able to wall, such as Klinklang. The burn chance is also very helpful for facing Pokemon such as Qwilfish, Dusknoir, and Spiritomb or just getting residual damage on common switch-ins like Tangrowth and Mandibuzz. The burn rate really helps this set succeed. Note: Poliwrath's nature should be Relaxed when using Scald.

    Calcs (open)

    Waterfall vs. 132/0 Klinklang 22.78% - 27.55%
    Waterfall vs. 52/0 Aggron 31.29% - 37.41%
    Scald vs. 132/0 Klinklang 25.51% - 29.93%
    Scald vs. 52/0 Aggron 65.98% - 78.23%

    Scald has a 100% chance to break Klinklang's Substitute, so getting a min damage Waterfall can let Klinklang set up. It also lets Poliwrath 2HKO Aggron, which is helpful.

    Waterfall vs. 0/0 Entei 46.9% - 55.52%
    Waterfall vs. 0/0 Typhlosion 62.62% - 74.74%
    Scald vs. 0/0 Entei 44.2% - 52.29%
    Scald vs. 0/0 Typhlosion 50.5% - 59.25%

    As you can see, the damage between Scald and Waterfall is not much different. Poliwrath should be able to handle Fire-types easily, and both moves have a chance to 2HKO them.
  16. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    I believe that Shift Gear Klinklang's spread should be changed to 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spe Adamant. This is only a very small difference from the on-site spread, which outspeeds uninvested Cryogonal at +0. However, the new spread does that, while also outspeeding Scarf Manectric at +2. The loss in bulk is unnoticeable, but the extra Speed is greatly appreciated. The rest of the anaylsis is relevant, so I don't think it needs an update other than that.
  17. superbadd

    superbadd

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    Is it possible to add a mixed set to the absol analysis?
  18. Omicron

    Omicron
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    The mixed set is pretty terrible and forces you to sacrifice a coverage move. You already hit Ferroseed hard enough with Superpower anyway. In addition, all analysis writing is on hold until July 8 due to BW2's recent release. Once analyses are allowed to be posted, feelfreeto post your set, but it will likely not be approved without some substantial evidence, as it was relegated to the OO for a reason.
  19. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    tbh im going to have to vouch for mixed Absol here, ever since trop invented that set as an NU joke a few months ago, it has actually found a solid niche in the NU metagame, after spectating a few battles of the same Absol set being used in RU (sucker punch, Night Slash, Superpower, Fire Blast btw.) It was very effective at luring in things that usually check Absol such as steelix and tangrowth, hitting either of those on the switch can be gamechanging, especially because a lot of people rely on these pokemon to wall promient physical threats, opening up that huge hole often means doom for your opponent. Not to mention, Mixed Absol does break down the common Tangrowth+Slowking+OTR cofagrigus down pretty easily.

    I do not feel that it should have a different set for mixed attacking, instead, we should slash fire blast on the all out attacker set, and put a naughty nature as an option.

    opinions?
  20. superbadd

    superbadd

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    The set should most likely stay separate for a couple reasons. I was thinking of replacing thunderbolt w/superpower or night slash. As T-bolt allows it to one shot qwilfish(who normally checks absol) and 2HKO gator with little investment. I was also thinking the set could be called mixed wall breaker b/c that's what it does best. The main purpose of the set is to lure in it's usual counters and destroy them.

    A set like:
    Sucker punch
    Fire Blast
    T-bolt/super power
    Night Slash

    252 atk 200 spe 52 spa w/life orb or something like that. Tweaking the speed evs in some form and adding the rest in spa would be best.
  21. Explorer

    Explorer

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    You say Fighting and Grass-types counter it, so you could put in Aerial Ace as an additional coverage move. I would also make Earthquake the 1st slash because it gets QuakeSlide.
  22. EonX

    EonX The One and Only
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    Ok, after using Lanturn's Tank set a lot since Moltres got Hurricane from BW2, I've found that it needs a much more specially defensive spread to fully counter LO Moltres. The current on-site spread gets 2HKOed by HP Grass an alarming 58.98% of the time after SR. For the supposed "best counter to Moltres", this is generally not good as a Lanturn switch-in to Moltres can usually be seen a mile away.

    The EV spread I have found that always avoids the 2HKO from Timid LO Moltres's HP Grass after SR is 192 HP / 108 Def / 208 SDef with a Calm nature. With this special bulk, Lanturn can truly switch into LO Moltres with impunity as it will avoid the 2HKO from the strongest move Moltres has on it. Lanturn can also take special attacker better in general while the Defense EVs give Lanturn a cushion against physical attacks. Although it loses a lot of physical bulk, Slowking is generally better fit for the mixed wall thing thanks to its set of resistances (having good resists to both physical and special attacks) while Lanturn's resists are much better served for taking special attacks, especially from Moltres. I feel the RestTalk set should also adopt this EV spread as both the Tank and RestTalk sets are typically used for defensive /support purposes.

    LO Moltres HP Grass vs. 192 HP / 208 SDef CalmLanturn 39.17% - 46.46% (3HKO)

    As for Uxie, a spread for the Support set blarajan brought up in the RU Teambuilding thread lets Uxie take on Nidoqueen with more security than the on-site spread does. The current on-site spread gets 2HKOed by LO Modest Nidoqueen's Sludge Wave 58.98% (wow, that's a common theme in this post, lol) of the time. With an EV spread of 252 HP / 80 Def / 40 SDef / 136 Spd and a Calm nature, Uxie outspeeds Adamant Kabutops, is never 2HKOed by Modest LO Nidoqueen's Sludge Wave, and takes special attacks better in general than the current on-site spread. Since the tier has seemingly shifted to more powerful special attackers than physical attackers, Uxie's EV spread should reflect this while still not neglecting its ability to take on most Fighting types in the tier.

    LO Nidoqueen Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 40 SDef Calm Uxie 39.26% - 46.61%

    Hope I explained everything thoroughly.
  23. IstheCakeReallyaLie

    IstheCakeReallyaLie

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    Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but Sawk's RU analysis can be accessed via URL, but not using a link on the actual page. Is there a reason for this?

    Pic of what's happening. (open)
    [​IMG]
  24. DittoCrow

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    That's because Sawk's analysis was deleted, as it was deemed unviable in RU. However, the analysis that was written does not get deleted, and that's why you can still access it.
  25. IstheCakeReallyaLie

    IstheCakeReallyaLie

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    Ah, thanks. Why didn't it get fully deleted, though?

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