RU core crisis (Round 4)

[Swamp-Rocket]

It is interesting to note that Moltres's Hurricane hax automatically knocks off 10.5% off your guaranteed success rate with your 1-pokemon counter: this means any single pokemon counter using inaccurate moves have to tread very carefully. For example, Swamp-Rocket has a 53.5% (64-10.5) chance of connecting 2 Hydro Pumps in a row and dodging Hurricane hax on the switch; NfskMjmMal in fact has now than a less than 50% (47.6% to be exact) of beating the core if pitted against Moltres first. Hell, even melvni's Cincinno can miss the Rock Blast should it not smack itself, though it's still a respectable 74.5% of success.

I really, really, really do not think that Hurricane confusion is a remote factor in this, because that is the definition of hax. Hurricane has a 30% chance of doing absolutely no damagemeaning that the chances of me actually losing to Moltres is, assuming [Hurricane hits twice in a row, I get confused and hit by confusion/miss Hydro Pump, and/or I miss Hydro Pump twice in a row. The OP says that hax should not play a remote factor in these calculations, so there is honestly no point in saying that confusion causes every core on this page to lose. Hurricane is extremely inaccurate in the first place, so if we get haxed, who is to say that Moltres would get unlucky. Because Hurricane is so dang inaccurate, it only hits twice in a row 51% of the time, meaning that these percentages can be up to twice as high of success. Luck is not a factor at all - we assume normal but not-quite-ridiculous/unreasonable requests to counter it, and I'm sure of that. Basically, Hurricane hits, never confuses, and Hydro Pump hits - that is what I think I am required to do to counter this core, because it works out non-haxily for both of us, and prediction cannot help the foe. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Punchshroom]

This means if your counter does not counter the worst possible scenario, it is not valid.

I always take hax into consideration when making these calcs, and try to minimize these as much as I can (I posted a Metang in the NU Core-crisis to counter Musharna-Gardevoir while avoiding Sp.Def drops with Clear Body). I would've suggested Own Tempo Slowking....if it stood a chance against the core alone.

 

[watashi]

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 212 Atk / 252 SAtk / 44 Spd
Rash Nature
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Ground]

252+ SpA Aerodactyl Hidden Power Ground vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Aggron: 312-368 (100.64 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

212 Atk Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 444-528 (138.31 - 164.48%) -- guaranteed OHKO

this set outspeeds and ohkos both pokemon while surviving any hit with focus sash.

i don't know the ruling about rock slide's accuracy and hurricane confusion hax, but i'm pretty sure by "worst case scenario" silvershadow234 means that the opponent predicts your every move. one way to check if your counter works is to test with a partner and tell them every move you're about to make before every turn to simulate the "worst case scenario".

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

I always take hax into consideration when making these calcs, and try to minimize these as much as I can (I posted a Metang in the NU Core-crisis to counter Musharna-Gardevoir while avoiding Sp.Def drops with Clear Body). I would've suggested Own Tempo Slowking....if it stood a chance against the core alone.

From the OP

You must then explain how your counter(s) will eliminate the core regardless of what happens (bar crits, misses and other hax forms).

Confusion is a hax form.

 

[Punchshroom]

Fair enough I suppose, but if we're going to take into consideration Durant's misses and Hurricane's accuracy, why does it seem you're dismissing Hurricane's ability to f**k everything up? I just acknowledged that Hurricane's confusion has a greater chance of causing hax (so 10.5% is hax and 20%/15%/10% to miss Hydro Pump/Rock Blast/Rock Slide respectively is not?) than Flamethrower's burn hax, which is why I dismissed this occasion of hax. FLCL would probably readily agree that his/her(?) core would succeed 90% of the time due to Rock Slide's accuracy (missing the Aggron switch is okay, it just needs to hit Moltres) alone, but by that extension, shouldn't Hurricane BS play a part in that as well?

P.S. If Hurricane confuses you, it might not need to hit the 2nd one if you hit yourself on the 3rd turn against Aggron. Just saying.

 

[ss234]

Round 4 is up! Here it is:

Samurott @ Life Orb
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk
Rash Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Megahorn

Entei @ Choice Band
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- ExtremeSpeed
- Stone Edge
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Also there is now SR up on both sides.

 

[Molk]

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Seed Bomb
- Leech Seed
- Thunder Wave

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Toxic

Ferroseed is one of the best counters available to mixed Samurott in the tier, resisting Hydro Pump, being almost immune to Hidden Power Grass, and having more than enough bulk to take multiple Life Orb Megahorns and Ice Beams. In return, Ferroseed can either set up a layer of Spikes, making it easier to wear down the core over the course of the match, especially because both Pokemon are grounded, or hit Samurott with Seed Bomb, which scores a guarenteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and one round of Life Orb recoil. Furthermore, Ferroseed can cripple Entei on the switchin with either Thunder Wave or Leech Seed, making switching Entei in on seed quite a bit riskier. Alomomola takes on Entei with ease thanks to its immense physical bulk, access to Regenerator, and resistance to Flare Blitz, not even Hidden Power Grass does too much to Alomomola, and even if it was able to score a 2HKO on the fish, Ferroseed could just switch come in on the choiced Hidden Power grass the next turn and force Entei out, leaving the opponent in a tight situation regardless. Like Ferroseed, Alomomola can deter the Pokemon its not meant to counter from switching in, in this case with Toxic, which just makes passive damage from Iron Barbs, Life Orb, Stealth Rock, and the Spikes Ferroseed can possibly set pile up that much faster. Lastly, Alomomola can heal Ferroseed with her massive Wishes which almost fully heal Ferroseed because of its low hp stat, making it an even more reliable counter to Samurott.

Calcs

4 Atk Life Orb Samurott Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 81-96 (27.73 - 32.87%) -- 16.02% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Ferroseed Seed Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott: 116-138 (35.04 - 41.69%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

4- SpA Entei Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 156-184 (29.21 - 34.45%) -- 14.45% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 123-145 (23.03 - 27.15%) -- possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Alomomola Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 156-186 (42.04 - 50.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[NfskMjmMal]

Uxie @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 HP / 4 Def
Timid Nature
-Trick Room
-Memento
-Psychic
-U-turn

Marowak @ Thick Club
Trait: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Brave Nature
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Fire Punch
-Swords Dance

Uxie is switched in first and can survive any attack. It first sets up the Trick Room, then immediately gets KOd or uses Memento on the next turn (If it switches into Entei, one Flare Blitz is stronger than two Extremespeeds, so Uxie can safely get off a Trick Room). This spread of Uxie outspeeds that Entei by 18. Even if they try switching shenanigans to stall out Trick Room, Uxie's Memento on the next turn will guarantee a minimum of three turns of Trick Room for Marowak (plus there are Rocks up so they can't just switch back and forth forever). Marowak easily outspeeds under a Trick Room and OHKOs both with Earthquake. Marowak can easily survive an Extremespeed from Entei.

Calcs:

Hide

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Uxie: 235-277 (66.38 - 78.24%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Uxie: 196-231 (55.36 - 65.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Life Orb Samurott Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Uxie: 179-213 (50.56 - 60.16%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott: 297-349 (89.72 - 105.43%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 594-698 (160.1 - 188.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Marowak: 121-143 (37.34 - 44.13%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[col49]

When Trick Room is activated, normal Speed priority is reversed for the move's duration. So Pokemon who usually go last will go first. Using Trick Room while the effects are already active will cause the effects to cease. Trick Room has a priority of -7. If a Pokemon with Prankster uses Trick Room, it has a priority of -6. Under Trick Room, move priority of all moves remains the same, so a Scizor using Bullet Punch will always move before a Snorlax using Fire Punch. Any Pokemon with over 1809 Speed will be unaffected by Trick Room.

Unfortunately, Trick Room goes after any given attack, so that core doesn't work =[

 

[NfskMjmMal]

Hah, I always use Trick Room on slow pokes, so I always forget it has negative priority. I was kind of wondering why I had never seen Trick Room used by anyone else before.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Reserving Frillish and Gigalith

Frillish @ Eviolite
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
-Recover
-Night Shade
-Toxic
-Protect

Gigalith @ Liechi Berry
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Stone Edge
-Autonomize
-Substitute
-Protect

If Samurott is in, switch in Frillish. SDef Frillish walls everything Samurott has and can simply spam Recover until Cursed Body activates. From there, simply Toxic anything that switches in / stays in and stall. If Entei switches in, switch in Gigalith. If Samurott stays in, simply spam Night Shade, Protect and Recover.

If Entei is in, switch in Gigalith. Gigalith is only 3HKO'd by Entei's strongest move Stone Edge and can live two hits and set up Autonomize. From there, Liechi Berry should activate (otherwise just sub down to Liechi range) and you can now outspeed and OHKO both Entei and Samurott. If he switches to Samurott, either sub down to Liechi range if you have used Autonomize, or switch to Frillish if you haven't. The Stealth Rocks will take a greater toll on the opponent since Entei is weaker to Stealth Rock than this core is, so no worries about endless switching.

Hide

Calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gigalith: 131-155 (41.98 - 49.67%) -- Guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gigalith: 117-138 (37.62 - 44.37%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

4- SpA Entei Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gigalith: 112-134 (36.01 - 43.08%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei ExtremeSpeed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gigalith: 52-62 (16.72 - 19.93%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock (won't kill even in Liechi range)

252 Atk Gigalith Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 386-456 (104.04 - 122.91%) -- guaranteed OHKO (even without Liechi Berry)

+1 252 Atk Gigalith Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Samurott: 288-339 (87 - 102.41%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (once in Liechi range. Even if it doesn't kill Samurott, Samurott will still die to LO)



252+ SpA Life Orb Samurott Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Frillish: 104-125 (33.12 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Frillish: 66-78 (21.01 - 24.84%) -- possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[ss234]

gigalith is possibly 2HKO'd by entei's stone edg after sr-therefore the core doesn't work as nothing can switch into CB entei stone edge.

 

[Manectrifier]

Qwilfish@Black Sludge
Trait: Intimidate
EV's: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
-Spikes
-Thunder Wave
-Waterfall
-Pain Split

Lapras@Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
Ev's: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 SAtt
Careful Nature
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Rain dance
-Rest


Qwilfish walls Entei completely, while Lapras walls Samurott. Both are at most 3HKO'd, and can cripple or KO their target. Qwilfish is completely safe against Entei, and can threaten it with waterfall or use TW to cripple one of the two. It can even set up spikes to ensure that Samurott faints when taking on Lapras. Pain split is also an option to keep its health up. Lapras does 49-58 % to Samurott, which added with LO recoil, SR and possibly spikes lead Samurott's defeat, although Lapras may faint along with it.

Calcs:
252+ SpA Life Orb Samurott Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Lapras: 146-172 (31.53 - 37.14%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Life Orb Samurott Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Lapras: 135-160 (29.15 - 34.55%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Qwilfish: 96-114 (28.74 - 34.13%) -- 7.93% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Qwilfish: 86-102 (25.74 - 30.53%) -- possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[august]

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Calm nature
252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
-Waterfall
-Wish
-Protect
-Toxic

CB Entei Stone Edge: 37.08% - 43.63%

252 SpAtk Life Orb Samurott (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Grass vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Alomomola (+SpDef) : 41.2% - 48.69%
Entry hazards damage: 66
After entry hazards: 286 - 326 (53.56% - 61.05%)

Since Mola has 534 HP, it can switch into Rott, take 326 damage max, recover 33-34 HP from Leftovers, putting it at 241 minimum. Then it can Protect, putting it at 274, out of the max damage range from Samurott.

Protect Toxic Stalling kills them both. Waterfall will beat Entei too when the user doesn't feel like risking a crit after Rott is dead.