[RU] Moltres (Choice Scarf)

SilentVerse

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Time to push all the SPL sets that were posted in that thread through c&c @_@.



[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Sleep Talk / Flamethrower
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
While the inaccuracy of Moltres's STAB moves and its massive 4x weakness to Stealth Rock may make it seem as if Moltres would be a poor candidate to attach a Choice Scarf to, the sheer power and neutral coverage of Hurricane makes it a very potent wielder of the item. So long as it is able to hit its moves, Choice Scarf Moltres can act as a potent revenge killer and check to some of the most dangerous threats in the tier, including Pokemon such as Durant and Sceptile, which are otherwise extremely difficult to answer on more offensive teams. Additionally, due to the lack of any common specially bulky Pokemon that are resistant to Flying-type moves, if Moltres can hit multiple Hurricanes in a row, this set is very capable of cleanly shredding though teams if it is allowed to simply spam the move, as Hurricane alone can cleanly 2HKO offensive checks such as Manectric. This set is also notable for being one of the best ways for Moltres to muscle past what is arguably its most common counter, Aerodactyl, due to its ability to outspeed and 2HKO most sets as long as Stealth Rock is up, barring significant HP or Special Defense investment.

Hurricane is largely what allows this set to function, despite an awful 70% accuracy. Hurricane's 120 Base Power allows it to tear huge chunks of HP out of most switch-ins and is generally just extremely difficult to switch into due to its insanely good neutral coverage. Fire Blast acts as a powerful secondary STAB move that hits some of the threats that are resistant to Hurricane, notably Steel-types such as Steelix and Aggron, and its greater accuracy allows it to be used in situations where you need the reliability to secure a KO. Aside from these two moves, the remaining slots are essentially filler due to the fact that Moltres lacks strong additional coverage moves and generally doesn't want to be locked into anything other than the first two moves, but there are some neat utility moves that are usable in the last two slots. U-turn is a neat scouting move that is useful against teams where Moltres cannot freely spam Hurricane and Fire Blast, as it allows Moltres to force out a threat while gaining momentum for its team. However, due to Moltres's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, it is a move that should be used conservatively unless you have effective entry hazard removal on your team. Finally, Sleep Talk is a nice niche option to have against teams with sleep inducers such as Lilligant and Tangrowth, but Flamethrower and Air Slash are acceptable options as well if you already have a sleep absorber and want the extra reliability those moves provide.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]
The EV spread here is fairly straightforward. Maximum Speed EVs and a Timid nature are important, as they allow Moltres to outspeed Pokemon that sit below base 90 Speed and hold a Choice Scarf, including the prominent Rotom-C. Notably, these EVs will also allow Moltres to just barely outspeed Choice Scarf Lilligant the majority of the time, as Moltres's lack of a Speed-lowering Hidden Power will put it one Speed point ahead. Maximum Special Attack is needed given that Moltres's STAB moves are both special attacks, and the remaining 4 EVs can be placed in either Defense or Special Defense; either is effective, as the key thing is not putting them into HP, as doing so will give Moltres an even HP and only allow Moltres to switch into Stealth Rock once.

The worst enemies of this set are specially defensive Pokemon that resist Hurricane and Fire Blast, as they can continuously switch into Moltres's most damaging moves and force it out, causing it to potentially lose 50% of its HP on its next switch into Stealth Rock and lose a ton of momentum for its team unless it predicts the switch effectively and is able to use U-turn. Pokemon such as Slowking, Lanturn, Regirock, and Rhydon are this set's worst nightmare, as they're bulky enough to shrug off multiple attacks and either pivot for momentum in the case of Slowking and Lanturn or set up Stealth Rock to dissuade Moltres from switching in. Rotom-C and Sceptile are excellent choices to deal with these threats, as they resist Water- and Electric-type attacks and are incredibly punishing to switch into due to the threat of Volt Switch from Rotom-C and Choice Specs-boosted Leaf Storm from Sceptile.

Furthermore, although this set is less dependent on it than other Moltres sets, Rapid Spin support is appreciated due to Moltres's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock. Of the spinners available in RU, the only real options are Cryogonal and Kabutops, as the other spinners are too unreliable to be worth pairing with Moltres. Of the two, Cryogonal is the more reliable spinner, although its shared weakness with Moltres can prove to be problematic, while Kabutops has more synergy with Moltres in terms of typing.
 
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Druddigon runs Pursuit? I have literally never seen a Druddigon run Pursuit, unless it is becoming more common lately (which I have heard it has in spl at least, but nothing out there has an analysis that reflects this at all). Escavalier probably does a better job at taking on King or Regi than Druddigon since Escavalier usually runs enough speed to outspeed Slowking and does more to Regirock while still being able to trap Slowking like Druddigon (except imo it is a lot easier to fit it on a set, Druddigon is pressed for space). It is also known for being a Pursuit user.

Kabutops is generally better than Cryogonal for the purposes of pairing up with Scarf Moltres (speaking of scarf I hope the scarf Hitmonlee thing was a joke ;_;) since Kabutops needs the support in order to take on Grass-types, something Scarf Moltres really does a good job at. I'm not sure if Cryogonal fits in with a team with Moltres very well for the purposes of spinning, as the two share several weaknesses and Moltres and Cryogonal don't work on the same types of teams imo. I'd personally only mention Kabutops here for this reason.

Finally, a pro you could mention with Sleep Talk is that no matter what happens with the move, you are going to get a super effective hit on the opposing Grass-type (other than Amoonguss) and U-turn can allow you to go to a priority user or something if sleep talked.

That's what I got thus far (partners look a little bare but idk what could be paired up with Scarf Moltres at the moment, I'm tired)
 
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Nails

Double Threat
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Cryo can spin on mola and lanturn, who both love to switch into moltres and get uturned on. Cryo struggles with Kabutops, who Moltres can bait with HP Grass or nuke with Hurricane for

252 SpA Moltres Hurricane vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kabutops: 127-150 (48.47 - 57.25%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Cryogonal Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kabutops: 109-129 (41.6 - 49.23%)

that much, which then puts tops in range of an Ice beam ko after rocks or spikes, which it pretty much will always have taken considering it usually only switches in when there are hazards to be spun. Basically, you're really underrating the offensive synergy of two very power special attackers Swamp-Rocket.

Druddigon runs pursuit very frequently. It helps with mower, sceptile, rotom, manectric, fire move locked moltres, and forces 50/50s with sucker punch to take out many mons such as sigilyph. It's very good, and better for killing slowking because you can't be blown up on the switch by a predicted fire blast. Also regirock isn't relevant in RU.

----------

It also outruns +1 hp fire lilligant, not just hp rock.

One of the best parts about scarf moltres is it doesn't really care about rocks, obviously it likes spins but it can function more effectively than any other moltres.

Almomola is a great partner because it dgf about switching into grass attacks and it recovers off rocks damage from the wish as you come in. Other moltres get dumped on by sceptile but scarf doesn't.

Lanturn is a cool partner too bc electric immunity and molktres covers grass + ground and they can volt turn to each other.

Qwilfish is a nice partner bc spikes are cool. But ngl your water type should be mola/tops/lanturn so you don't really ever get to use qwil + moltres. I mean it's still good but yeah. Basically use 1-2 waters with this set.

I like STalk > HP grass basically always because having a dgf switch into lilligant and mushroom is sooooooo good and sleeping moltres is just as good as awake moltres. Unless you're running like, mola + idk something else that omastar sets up on, thinking is hard. But running hp grass for tops only isn't worth it.

Probably the most defensively relevant win condition in RU, maybe tied with rotom I guess. It's tanky af, even with a shit typing because its base stats are godlike.

But yeah, the most important thing when using this set is something to switch into tops, like passho golurk or defensive golurk. I think golurk and moltres are great partners. Because it like, stops everything that threatens moltres. A pursuit drud + scarf moltres + defensive golurk is actually a really really solid core, i should've used that in spl.

Anyways,

QC APPROVED 1/3
 
i guess nails is qc again, nb

but yeah, i was a little hesitant about this when i saw all the hype it was getting, but it isn't bad at all tbh (even if i still like bulky agility better :[ ). a few things i noted when playing with it that i kinda wanna see mentioned here:
- hp grass is super lame. i mean, if you're that weak to ss oma, i feel as though the player should be re-thinking their team a little, rather than slapping on hp grass, especially given just how lame of a lock-in it is. personally, i'd rather it get moved down to ac
- air slash / flamethrower aren't as lame in that slot. like you mention, it has basically all it needs in its first three attacks, so it can definitely afford the luxury of more accurate STAB in the final slot imo. removes some uncertainty from the end-game with a little extra prior damage, which i found was nice when i was otherwise forced to hit consecutive hurricanes to clean up q-q
- maybe just me, but i found gothorita to be a really solid partner '~' trappers + u-turn / volt switch 'mons already have naturally good offensive synergy, and gothorita specifically can set up on and beat stuff like regirock and /usually/ slowking 1v1, as well as less thorough checks coming in on a resisted hit, such as Momo.

but yeah, gl hf

qc 2(?)/3
 

SilentVerse

Into the New World
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Yeah ok, I'll move HP Grass to AC and slash Air Slash and Flamethrower with Sleep Talk. Will write this up soon (hopefully n_n).
 

Honko

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Air Slash shouldn't be slashed imo. It's really fucking weak and not even 100% accurate. Flamethrower is the far superior option for guaranteed revenging/cleaning move. Flinch chance is nice and Moltres wishes it had a good backup Flying STAB since Hurricane's accuracy is much worse than Fire Blast's, but Air Slash doesn't even OHKO shit like Durant and +1 Lilligant, both of which it definitely wants to KO.
 
one set GPs :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Sleep Talk / Flamethrower
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While the inaccuracy of Moltres's STAB moves and massive 4x weakness to Stealth Rock may make it seem as if Moltres would be a poor candidate to attach a Choice Scarf to, the sheer power and neutral coverage of Hurricane makes it a very potent wielder of the item. So long as it is able to hit its moves, Choice Scarf Moltres can act as a potent revenge killer and check to some of the most dangerous threats in the tier, including Pokemon such as Durant and Sceptile, who are otherwise extremely difficult to answer on more aggressive (offensive seems like a more common/well known term, especially because 'aggressive' doesn't really fit well here) teams. Additionally, due to the lack of any common, bulky, specially defensive (unless this implies blanket walls w/ spdef investment, "specially bulky" makes this easier to read) Pokemon that are resistant to Flying-type moves, if Moltres can hit multiple Hurricanes in a row, this set is very capable of cleanly shredding though teams if it is allowed to simply spam Hurricane, as Hurricane alone can cleanly 2HKO offensive checks such as Manectric. This set is also notable for being one of the best ways for Moltres to muscle past what is arguably its most common counter, Aerodactyl, due to its ability to outspeed and 2HKO most Aerodactyl as long as Stealth Rock is up, barring significant HP or Special Defense investment.</p>

<p>Hurricane is the key move of this set and is largely what allows this set to function, despite an awful 70% accuracy. Hurricane's 120 Base Power allows it to tear huge chunks of HP out of most switch-ins, and is generally just extremely difficult to switch into due to its insanely good neutral coverage. Fire Blast acts as a powerful secondary STAB that hits some of the things that are resistant to Hurricane, notably Steel-types such as Steelix and Aggron, and its greater accuracy allows it to be used in situations where you need the reliability to secure a kill. Aside from these two moves, the remaining slots are essentially filler due to the fact that Moltres lacks strong additional coverage moves and generally doesn't want to be locked into anything other than the first two moves, but there are some neat utility moves that are usable in the last two slots. U-turn is a neat scouting move that is useful against teams where Moltres cannot freely spam Hurricane and Fire Blast, as it allows Moltres to force out a threat while gaining momentum for its team. However, due to Moltres's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, it is a move that should be used conservatively unless you have effective hazard removal on your team. Finally, Sleep Talk is a nice niche option to have against teams with sleep inducers such as Lilligant or Tangrowth, but Flamethrower or Air Slash are acceptable options as well if you already have a sleep absorber and want the extra reliability those moves provide.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread here is fairly straightforward. Max Speed EVs and a Timid nature are important, as they allow Moltres to outspeed Pokemon that are below base 90 Speed and hold a Choice Scarf, including the prominent Rotom-C. Notably, these EVs will also allow Moltres to just barely outspeed Choice Scarf Lilligant the majority of the time, as Moltres's lack of a Speed-lowering Hidden Power will put it one Speed point ahead. Max Special Attack is needed given that Moltres's STABs are both special attacks, and the remaining 4 EVs can be placed in either Defense or Special Defense; either is effective, as the key thing is to not put them into HP, as doing so will give Moltres an even HP and only allow Moltres to switch into Stealth Rock twice.</p>

<p>The worst enemies of this set are specially defensive Pokemon that resist Hurricane and Fire Blast, as they can continuously switch into Moltres's most damaging moves and force it out, causing Moltres to potentially lose 50% of its HP on its next switch into Stealth Rock and lose a ton of momentum for its team unless it predicts the switch effectively and is able to use U-turn. Pokemon such as Slowking, Lanturn, Regirock, and Rhydon are this set's worst nightmare, as they're bulky enough to shrug off multiple attacks, and either pivot for momentum in the case of Slowking and Lanturn, or set up Stealth Rock to dissuade Moltres from switching in. Rotom-C and Sceptile are excellent choices to deal with these threats, as they resist Water- and Electric-type attacks and are incredibly punishing to switch into due to the threat of Volt Switch from Rotom-C and Choice Specs-boosted Leaf Storm from Sceptile.

<p>Furthermore, although this set is less dependent on it than other Moltres sets, Rapid Spin support is appreciated due to Moltres's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock. Of the options available in RU, the only real options are Cryogonal and Kabutops, as the other spinners are too unreliable to be worth pairing with Moltres. Of the two, Cryogonal is the more reliable spinner, albeit its shared weaknesses (iirc there's only Rock so this could be worded differently) with Moltres can prove to be problematic, while Kabutops has more synergy with Moltres in terms of typing.</p>

gp 1/2, blue=changes/additions while bolded stuff is comments
 

Lumari

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TFP Leader
also uploading this cause ogles said i could

GP 2/2
[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Sleep Talk / Flamethrower
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Pressure
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
While the inaccuracy of Moltres's STAB moves and its massive 4x weakness to Stealth Rock may make it seem as if Moltres would be a poor candidate to attach a Choice Scarf to, the sheer power and neutral coverage of Hurricane makes it a very potent wielder of the item. So long as it is able to hit its moves, Choice Scarf Moltres can act as a potent revenge killer and check to some of the most dangerous threats in the tier, including Pokemon such as Durant and Sceptile, who which are otherwise extremely difficult to answer on more offensive teams. Additionally, due to the lack of any common specially bulky Pokemon that are resistant to Flying-type moves, if Moltres can hit multiple Hurricanes in a row, this set is very capable of cleanly shredding though teams if it is allowed to simply spam Hurricane the move, as Hurricane alone can cleanly 2HKO offensive checks such as Manectric. This set is also notable for being one of the best ways for Moltres to muscle past what is arguably its most common counter, Aerodactyl, due to its ability to outspeed and 2HKO most Aerodactyl sets as long as Stealth Rock is up, barring significant HP or Special Defense investment.

Hurricane is the key move of this set and is largely what allows this set to function, despite an awful 70% accuracy. Hurricane's 120 Base Power allows it to tear huge chunks of HP out of most switch-ins (RC) and is generally just extremely difficult to switch into due to its insanely good neutral coverage. Fire Blast acts as a powerful secondary STAB move that hits some of the things threats that are resistant to Hurricane, notably Steel-types such as Steelix and Aggron, and its greater accuracy allows it to be used in situations where you need the reliability to secure a kill KO. Aside from these two moves, the remaining slots are essentially filler due to the fact that Moltres lacks strong additional coverage moves and generally doesn't want to be locked into anything other than the first two moves, but there are some neat utility moves that are usable in the last two slots. U-turn is a neat scouting move that is useful against teams where Moltres cannot freely spam Hurricane and Fire Blast, as it allows Moltres to force out a threat while gaining momentum for its team. However, due to Moltres's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, it is a move that should be used conservatively unless you have effective entry hazard removal on your team. Finally, Sleep Talk is a nice niche option to have against teams with sleep inducers such as Lilligant or and Tangrowth, but Flamethrower or and Air Slash are acceptable options as well if you already have a sleep absorber and want the extra reliability those moves provide.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]
The EV spread here is fairly straightforward. Maximum Speed EVs and a Timid nature are important, as they allow Moltres to outspeed Pokemon that are sit below base 90 Speed and hold a Choice Scarf, including the prominent Rotom-C. Notably, these EVs will also allow Moltres to just barely outspeed Choice Scarf Lilligant the majority of the time, as Moltres's lack of a Speed-lowering Hidden Power will put it one Speed point ahead. Maximum Special Attack is needed given that Moltres's STAB moves are both special attacks, and the remaining 4 EVs can be placed in either Defense or Special Defense; either is effective, as the key thing is to not putting them into HP, as doing so will give Moltres an even HP and only allow Moltres to switch into Stealth Rock twice once.

The worst enemies of this set are specially defensive Pokemon that resist Hurricane and Fire Blast, as they can continuously switch into Moltres's most damaging moves and force it out, causing Moltres it to potentially lose 50% of its HP on its next switch into Stealth Rock and lose a ton of momentum for its team unless it predicts the switch effectively and is able to use U-turn. Pokemon such as Slowking, Lanturn, Regirock, and Rhydon are this set's worst nightmare, as they're bulky enough to shrug off multiple attacks (RC) and either pivot for momentum in the case of Slowking and Lanturn (RC) or set up Stealth Rock to dissuade Moltres from switching in. Rotom-C and Sceptile are excellent choices to deal with these threats, as they resist Water- and Electric-type attacks and are incredibly punishing to switch into due to the threat of Volt Switch from Rotom-C and Choice Specs-boosted Leaf Storm from Sceptile.

Furthermore, although this set is less dependent on it than other Moltres sets, Rapid Spin support is appreciated due to Moltres's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock. Of the options spinners available in RU, the only real options are Cryogonal and Kabutops, as the other spinners are too unreliable to be worth pairing with Moltres. Of the two, Cryogonal is the more reliable spinner, albeit although its shared weakness with Moltres can prove to be problematic, while Kabutops has more synergy with Moltres in terms of typing.
 

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