RU Pokemon of the Week: Cinccino

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Jellicent, Jul 15, 2012.

  1. zbabyovr9000

    zbabyovr9000

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    17
    Tried using intimidate Stoutland today:

    Stoutland @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+Spd,-Spa)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Roar
    - Return / Rest
    - Substitute / Superpower / Sleep Talk

    Thunder Wave and Roar are essentially the extent of Stoutland's support movepool, which begs for a comparison to Druddigon.

    Stoutland Pros:
    Intimidate allows for investment in special defense without loss of physical bulk.
    Slightly better bulk overall
    Much faster than Druddigon even uninvested
    Perfect accuracy phaze and paralyze

    Druddigon Pros:
    Speed doesn't matter when they're paralyzed
    Can paralyze electric immunities
    Can phaze through taunt
    Rough skin residual damage
    More useful typing
    Access to roar and dragon tail

    Looking at that, Druddigon seems to outclass him. But I don't want to give up on Stoutland yet, he has proved useful. T-Wave and Roar helped to shut down a baton pass team, and Stoutland had the bulk to comfortably (30% left) survive a +2 Surf from Omastar, and fire back a T-Wave, or phaze it out. This is something Druddigon could not do (ice beam), so maybe there is more to Stoutland. Not to mention intimidate burned his white herb on the switch in.

    The problem I think is, while intimidate is more useful than rough skin, intimidate is only going to help when you switch in (obviously), but para shuffling is all about you staying in while they switch out.

    I neglected to compare to other possible para shufflers (Hariyama, Serperior)...whatever I don't really see them used that way often.

    Edit: Realized he gets yawn and toxic as well. He could run a toxic + protect set, but I dn't know how effective it would be. And I don't know how he'd utilize yawn.
  2. Jellicent

    Jellicent Ambien Trance
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,081
    Well, that was a slow round... Hopefully this next one will pick things up again ^.^

    Best Poster: august - Good general overview and set for a new mon :3
    Most Creative: zbabyovr9000 - I had a lot of fun with a similar defensive Stoutland, and I can attest taht it is both effective and unexpected ^.^


    [​IMG]
    Type: Fire / Flying
    Base Stats: 90 HP / 100 Atk / 90 Def / 125 SpA / 85 SpD / 90 Spe
    Ability: Pressure

    Moltres is definitely one of the top offensive Pokemon in the tier right now. Describe it's best roles, niches, sets, counters, teammates, etc. You all know the drill :P
  3. lars

    lars

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    265
    Nobody has done it yet, so I guess I might as well

    Standard Stall set (Sub Roost Toxic), but works very well on Balance teams as a handy resist to Fighting/grass/bug/fire

    Moltres @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 HP / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Flamethrower
    - Substitute
    - Toxic
    - Roost

    force a switch, sub up, stall it out!

    Although Moltres is usually considered for heavily offensive roles. I have personally had the most success with this set, and tend to have the most trouble playing against this set.

    (probably more to say later)
  4. august

    august when the storm screams angela, angela
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnuswon the 5th Official Smogon Tournamentis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,990
    Moltres @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Roost
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Hurricane

    This is probably the standard Moltres set, and quite possibly the most consistently dominating pokemon in the tier since BW2. Moltres is ridiculously overpowered, being able to 2HKO almost anything in the tier bar Lanturn, and arguably the only reason it ISN'T broken is because of Stealth Rock. While its true that Moltres essentially requires a Rapid Spinner, it is also true that Kabutops makes an excellent addition to almost any team, and it keeps up offensive pressure against opposing teams thanks to 361 Attack, STAB Stone Edge, Swords Dance, and priority.

    One reason that Moltres is so good is that nearly all of its counters are grounded. Unlike Nidoqueen, who has trouble with Uxie, Clefable, etc who are immune to Spikes, Moltres abuses Spikes to their fullest extent. Prior to BW2, even Spikes + Moltres teams had trouble with Regen Slowking, but now thanks to Hurricane, Moltres can easily bypass Slowking in conjunction with Spikes. Lanturn, arguably the best switch into Moltres currently, takes 25% each time it switches in from just 1 layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock on the field, making repeated switch ins very difficult. Moltres also functions as an awesome anti spinner, as it easily OHKOes Sandslash and Cryogonal, while forcing Kabutops to Aqua Jet due to the threat of HP Grass.

    Due to its ability to easily get 2 layers up, Smeargle makes an excellent team mate for Moltres. Since Lanturn is a common switch in to Moltres, a double switch to Smeargle allows the Moltres user to get more layers which will force more pressure through out the match. An offensive Grass-type like Lilligant or Special Sub Sceptile also makes an excellent team mate, especially since most of their checks/counters are forced out by a smart double switch to Moltres (Escavalier, Roselia, Garbodor, Ferroseed etc). I personally like Quiver Dance Lilligant with Moltres because I find it more threatening once its checks are eliminated / weakened, but Sceptile is also very good at wearing down its checks with Spikes. Kabutops is a good team mate for obvious reasons, and Nidoqueen also makes a very good team mate thanks to a Volt Switch immunity to prevent it from being revenge killed by Scarf mons like Rotom-c, Rotom, Manectric etc.

    I love Moltres :heart:
  5. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    650
    Rain Dance Moltres

    [​IMG]
    Moltres @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Fire Blast
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    This is an interesting take on Moltres; it functions similar to Volcarona in OU. Most often the 70% accuracy of Hurricane spells doom for Moltres, but in Rain Hurricane now has perfect accuracy. This is a bit different than August's post because of a more 'defensive' route. First, Rain Dance teams have trouble with bulky Water- and Grass-types. Moltres is one of the best answers to Grass-types in RU, as long as it avoids a Sleep attack. Additionally, Water-types like to switch in on Moltres only to take a perfect accuracy Hurricane behind a potential Substitute. Leftovers is the recommended item because all the switching in, and Substitutes will take a toll on Moltres's health, but Life Orb is an option, but then it will wear down a bit quickly. If Life Orb is used, then Hidden Power Grass takes the nod over Substitute. Fire Blast is going to be used less, but its there for STAB and for when Rain ends.

    The bane of Moltres's existence is Stealth Rock--shudder. So to help cure this, Kabutops --or Armaldo--is the best teammate. As this is best used in Rain, and obviously Swift Swimmers are best used in rain. o.0 Kabutops can Spin, boost with Swords Dance, or just kill everything. Armaldo is similar to Kabutops, but is a bit bulkier, so it is the more 'safe' Rapid Spinner, but lacks the Speed that Kabutops has. Additionally, Seismitoad is a great partner because of its 4x weakness to Grass-type attacks, which Moltres loves to capitalize upon. Seismitoad can set up Stealth Rock to aid in weakening Moltres's switch-ins, and can help sweep in its own right with Swift Swim. Similarily, Ludicolo is an awesome partner because it can easily tear apart bulky Water-types, which Moltres has a hard time taking down.
  6. EonX-

    EonX- Never Give Up
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,025
    For those who want high risk and high reward, here's Choice Specs Moltres.
    [​IMG]

    Moltres @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - U-turn

    If you want a Moltres with pure, sheer power, then look no further than the Choice Specs set. With a pair of Choice Specs equipped, Moltres quite literally has 0 safe switch-ins as even Lanturn is now 2HKOed by the proper move after SR. Unlike the standard Life Orb set, Choice Specs Moltres focuses more on being a wallbreaker rather than a possible sweeper late-game. Both Fire Blast and Hurricane are absurdly powerful STAB moves than can break almost every special wall in the tier. The only special wall that Moltres's STABs can't break is Lanturn and it gets 2HKOed by HP Grass after SR support alone. U-turn is the last move as Choice Specs makes Roost a rather poor option and Moltres has what it needs in 3 moves.

    Although Specs Moltres is the strongest set Moltres can run, it's also the riskiest. The inability to run Roost means that Moltres is more reliant on Rapid Spin support than the other sets. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as Kabutops is a great partner for Moltres and is a great Spinner. If you're looking for a sturdier Spinner that still gets the job done on most occasions, look no further than Cryogonal who can take most Water and Electric moves rather easily for Moltres thanks to its high Special Defense. Hazard support from the likes of Smeargle, Uxie, and Roselia is a major help. With just 1 layer of SR or Spikes, Moltres can break through Lanturn with HP Grass. Speaking of Lanturn, it's a good partner for Moltres despite usually being public enemy #1 for the phoenix. Lanturn's ability to take Water and Electric type moves is very appreciated as is its paralysis and cleric support. Lanturn even has Volt Switch to form something of a VoltTurn core with Moltres though Manectric and Rotom-C may be better options if a VoltTurn core is what you're after. Fast Special Attackers such as Accelgor and Sceptile can clean up what Choice Specs Moltres leaves behind.

    Life Orb Moltres is definitely the best overall set Moltres has, but if you're willing to play on the edge and want crazy power, then give Choice Specs Moltres a try. The lack of Roost makes it easier to play around and also makes it more dependent on a Rapid Spinner, but the power boost from Choice Specs allows Moltres to 2HKO the whole tier with proper prediction.
  7. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    650
    Moltres is a defining part of the metagame, because one of its major flaws is Stealth Rock, so if seen in team preview, the biggest priority is to set up Stealth Rock. The help with this weakness Rapid Spinners are more prevalent, and there lies the biggest problem.

    Using Moltres almost entails having a Rapid Spinner on the team, which could take up valuable space, so in essence when using Moltres, you're actually using two Pokemon. Often is usually Kabutops or Cryogonal, but right now Kabutops is the top fossil, as it is much harder to spin block, Cofagrigus is gone, and can revenge Nidoqueen and opposing Moltres.

    In general, this offensive oriented metagame does give Moltres less 'safe' chances to switch in, especially against offensive teams, which try to set up Stealth Rock as soon as possible and hit fast and hard. However, Moltres shines against more balanced and stall teams, the latter more so when utilizing Substitute, as it can switch in with less risk as well as outspeed the opposition and hit hard.
  8. Jellicent

    Jellicent Ambien Trance
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,081
    Best Poster: august - covered the basics of teammates, checks, most common set, etc.
    Most Creative: Yonko7 - Rain Dance Moltres is definitely unexpected, and he also covered a lot of the drawbacks to using Moltres


    [​IMG]
    Typing: Poison / Ground
    Base Stats: 90 HP / 82 Atk / 87 Def / 75 SpA / 85 SpD / 86 Spe
    Ability: Poison Point / Rivalry / Sheer Force

    Nidoqueen's base stats might look underwhelming, but an awesome movepool and Sheer Force make her one of the top threats in the metagame. What are her best sets, roles, niches, counters, teammates, etc.? Anything and everything about Nidoqueen is on the table this week, so get creative!
  9. EonX-

    EonX- Never Give Up
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,025
    [​IMG]
    Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 96 HP / 244 SAtk / 168 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Sludge Wave
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Earth Power

    Really the best set Nidoqueen has, but the only one she needs. With the given moves, Nidoqueen becomes one of the most influential wallbreakers in RU. Combine her bulk, immunity to poison and paralysis, resistance to SR, and lack of Life Orb recoil and it's easy to see why Nidoqueen is such a great Pokemon. You basically have the bulk of a defensive Pokemon with wallbreaking power. Sludge Wave is a great move that Nidoqueen can hit most of RU for heavy damage with. It's generally the go-to move when you aren't sure of what your opponent will switch into. Fire Blast and Thunderbolt provide needed coverage. Fire Blast handles Bug- and Ice-types such as Cryogonal and Escavalier. Thunderbolt is useful for the likes of Slowking and Moltres who think they may be able to come out on top against you. Finally, Earth Power is Nidoqeen's other STAB move and is the most useful in terms of hitting stuff for super effective damage. Steelix, Lanturn, Entei, and opposing Nidoqueen are just a few of the targets that fall to Earth Power. I personally prefer this EV spread on Nidoqueen as opposed to the more standard 252/252 spread. Moltres is such a defining part of the metagame and it's just amazing to actually have an offensive mon that can take one of its attacks and KO back. You can also take Leaf Storm from Sceptile on the rare occasion it uses Leaf Storm over Sub. Sure, you have to be very healthy to take these moves, but max Speed for Nidoqueen just doesn't do a ton in my experience.

    Nidoqueen is a wallbreaker first, so it wants hazards and teammates that can finish up the game as she rarely has the Speed to sweep on her own. Smeargle, Accelgor, and Uxie are all examples of solid entry hazard users with Nidoqueen. Smeargle can use Spore to put an opposing threat out of comission on top of setting up Spikes and SR. Accelgor has an easy time setting up Spikes thanks to its high Speed and even has Encore to discourage setup from the opposing side. Uxie is a great defensive user of SR and has no problems taking Ground or Psychic moves aimed at Nidoqueen. As far as cleaners go, Aerodactyl is a top pick as it outspeeds the majority of the Pokemon that can force Nidoqueen out. Aero can revenge kill threats such as Sigilyph, Sceptile, and Uxie, the latter of which will come out on top against Nidoqueen, but will be left severely weakened in the process. Accelgor, Sceptile, and Scarf Rotom-C are other options for the cleaner role. To turn Nidoqueen into more of a sweeper, she will need paralysis support from the likes of Uxie, Druddigon, and Lanturn. This isn't a bad thing though as all 3 have decent synergy with Nidoqueen, resisting at least one of her weaknesses.

    Nidoqueen has other options at her disposal, and many can be put to good use. Focus Blast takes out Clefable and Munchlax, Nidoqueen's only defensive counters in RU with the given moveset. Stealth Rock is usable over Sludge Wave as Queen can find many chances to set it up due to the forced switches she causes. If Druddigon is a pain for your team, Nidoqueen can make use of Ice Beam. Finally, Shadow Ball can be used to light up Nidoqueen's most common check, Uxie, for heavy damage.

    Nidoqueen's true counters have already been mentioned, but there are other ways to beat her. Uxie is usually the most common choice for a Nidoqueen check as the pixie 2HKOs her with Psychic. Lesser seen Pokemon such as Lickilicky, Misdreavus, and Gardevoir are all capable of handling Nidoqueen, but through all of this, only Clefable, Lickilicky, and Gardevoir possess a reliable form of recovery. Of those 3, only Clefable will be able to consistently handle Nidoqueen as she often comes with entry hazards.
    If countering defensively isn't up your ally, just try to find your way in on resisted attacks or neutral coverage moves. If Pokemon such as Moltres, Kabutops, Sceptile, and Sigilyph can avoid the moves that hit them for super effective damage, then they can come in and take out Nidoqueen. Other examples include Gallade, Mesprit, Aerodactyl, and Entei. Specially Defensive Druddigon isn't an overly common set, but it's more than capable of taking anything from Nidoqueen, even Ice Beam once. Lanturn can't counter Nidoqueen due to Earth Power, but by that same token, it can also make it much easier to switch into Nidoqueen by limiting her to one choice to KO or risk taking heavy damage from Scald.

    Nidoqueen is a defining part of RU. She may only have one common set, but thanks to the wide coverage she gets with that one set, Nidoqueen is anything but predictable. She has power, bulk, coverage, and Speed to outspeed most walls, making her quite possibly the best wallbreaker RU has atm. If you don't have checks to Nidoqueen, you're just asking to lose a lot of games.
  10. Pocket

    Pocket Nyanko Sensei >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Leader

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,316
    Amazing read, EonX! Interesting spread, EonX; I never thought of taking out some Spe EVs and place them into HP. Your spread does lose out on Absol, Hitmonchan, and speed-tying with opposing Nidoqueen, but Absol has Sucker Punch, Hitmonchan is shit, and speed ties aren't the best thing to put yourself in. The extra health is definitely worth it, since I've been quite disappointed with her bulk. It's worth noting that Nidoqueen can also tank Entei's Flare Blitz's as long as it's not banded. I'd definitely like to try out this spread.

    Just a note, though - you can save yourself 4 SpA EVs, since Nidoqueen's HP from 96 to 92 wont affect Nidoqueen's chance in tanking a LO Fire Blast or Leaf Storm from Moltres or Sceptile.

    You mentioned Shadow Ball for hitting Uxie extra hard, but it's also worth noting that it OHKOs Rotom (after SR), too, which are on the rise.

    Here are some sets that I've tried / have been using:

    Toxic Spikes
    [​IMG]
    Nidoqueen @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Earth Power
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt

    People frequently use Nidoqueen for setting up SR, but it is one of the most effective Pokemon to set up TSpikes. The reason is simple - Nidoqueen threatens every Poison-type with its Sheer Force special artillery! Earth Power (and Timid) for opposing Nidoqueen and Drapion and Fire Blast for Amoonguss, Roselia, Scolipede. Fire Blast and Thunderbolt are also targeted at Steel-types and Flying-types unaffected by Toxic Spikes. Don't forget that Rapid Spinners wont enjoy spinning in front of Nidoqueen, either!

    TSpikes is an underrated support move. It softens up the opponent's defenses effectively, allowing powerful threats, such as SubRoost Moltres and SubDD Crawdaunt much harder to stop. It's great against offensive teams, too - putting LO Sweepers on a shorter timer.

    Rain Partner

    [​IMG]

    Nidoqueen @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (or ideally EonX's spread xP)
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Earth Power
    - Sludge Wave
    - Thunder
    - Focus Blast / Stealth Rock

    This is the standard Nidoqueen with Thunder > Thunderbolt. Still, Nidoqueen's amazing complementary combination with Rain Offense should not be ignored. Rain sweepers have trouble getting past Slowking, Lanturn, Tangrowth, Ferroseed, Poliwrath, and maybe Munchlax. Nidoqueen hits all of them hard with respective special moves! If she foregoes Focus Blast, it can set up Stealth Rock, which are tough to squeeze in on a Rain team.

    Nidoqueen is also useful on Rain teams, because it is a solid check to most Electric-types, not named Specs Rotom-C and EQ Electivire. Against Rotom-C, it can usually do a 1-vs-1 trade-off, tanking a Leaf Storm with a sliver of health in exchange for killing Rotom-C with Sludge Wave.

    Other than the moves already suggested, Ice Beam > Sludge Wave is worth mentioning, since it lets Nidoqueen hit Roselia and Amoonguss hardest, as well as severely crippling Druddigon.
  11. Phazon00

    Phazon00

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    167
    The queen set on my sun team-

    [​IMG]
    Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Earth Power
    - Sunny Day

    Yep, a Nidoqueen with Sunny Day. It actually works. After a Sunny Day, Nidoqueen's Fire Blast reaches very high power, 2HKOing many opposing threats. Thunderbolt is great coverage alongside Fire Blast, hitting Archeops, Aerodactyl and the many Water-Types. Earth Power is Nidoqueen's most solid STAB, and bests Fire Blast if Sun is not up. Ground also has fairly good coverage in RU, so this is a Solid Choice. Also, the Flying types that evade EP can be smacked with a Thunderbolt, inflicting massive damage. As you can see, these three moves give Nidoqueen phenomenal coverage, and all three get boosted by Sheer Force.

    However, the role of a sun supporter may seem new. As you know, Nidoqueen is great at forcing switches. If you can predict one, why not use that opportunity? With Nidoqueen's bulk, it will be fairly reliable as a sun setter that can ALSO attack. This Sunny Day Supports your team in a great way, as partners like Sawsbuck and Exeggutor (two great Chlorophyll sweepers) appreciate the use of an additional sun setter. It is also great for a suprise factor. Like, here's an example. In the team preview, your opponent sees Uxie and Volbeat alongside Fire-types and Chlorophyll sweepers. Instant thought is sun team with two sun summoners. If they both go down, your opponent thinks he/she is in the clear. NOPE! Nidoqueen has sun, giving the rest of your team five turns to wreck things. Heat Rock is an option over Life Orb for longer sun, but the drop in power will be very noticeable, and this is not recommended.

    Since this Nidoqueen is a sun summoner, ideal partners are sun sweepers. Exeggutor is my personal favourite as a sweeper, as its monstrous SpA stat cannot be ignored. Also, Exeggutor is a good switch-in to opposing Nidoqueen in the event of a Queen vs. Queen stand-off. And for a wallbreaker like Nidoqueen, Exeggutor's Sleep Powder is a huge help, immobilizing walls for Nidoqueen to either take out or set up five more turns of sun. Emboar is also a good partner, as it's high-powered fighting-type attacks can break walls like Munchlax, which would otherwise wall Nidoqueen to oblivion. Also, Emboar's Flare Blitz boosted by sun is a monstrous move, as a CB Blitz can take out opposing Pokes even on resisted hits. That is one powerful move! Also, Smeargle is another good partner, not for taking hits but for early-game setup, as some spikes can turn 2HKOs into OHKOs. It may not seem important, but trust me. It's important.

    As for other options, Nidoqueen lacks those. Sludge Wave is acceptable as a secondary STAB, but the loss of a coverage move could be devastating. And besides, Poison is only Super Effective against Grass, which Fire Blast handles just fine. Stealth Rock is good, but that leaves Nidoqueen with only 2 attacks or no sun, which is the whole point of this set. Ice Beam can replace Thunderbolt, but that leaves Queen helpless against Water types.

    As for counters, Quagsire is probably the best there is. Only Earth Power hits neutrally, while it is immune to Thunderbolt and resists Fire Blast. Nidoqueen also does not like taking a powerful STAB Earthquake. Uxie shrugs off everything Nidoqueen throws at it and can set up Rocks, Screens or Weather while Queen switches out. Clefable or Munchlax can take hits, but are easily countered by Teammates like Emboar. And that is pretty much it, as Nidoqueen 2HKOs most of everything else with Earth Power or Fire Blast. The only other "counters" are things like Moltres if they can predict an Earth Power to get a safe switch, then do a shitload with Fire Blast. Kabutops can also come in on a 4x resisted Fire Blast and do a lot back with a Waterfall.

    Overall, Nidoqueen wrecks things. The above set is a good one for a sun team, but it is just as viable on weatherless offense with a set of Earth Power/Fire Blast/Thunderbolt/Stealth Rock. I just like the set above as it is creative and great for a suprise factor. But really, any set that doesn't have Poison Sting should work out. Experimentation is key for finding the right set for you.
  12. Molk

    Molk idk
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RU Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,984
    Nidoqueen is quite the metagame defining threat in RU these days, being the main reason that the tier sped up quite a bit in the past 4 months or so. As the above posters have said, Nidoqueen has incredible coverage, and the power and bulk to back it up factoring in sheer force. Nidoqueen also comes packed with a resistance to almost every type of residual damage, resisting Stealth Rock, being immune to thunder wave and toxic, and soaking up toxic spikes, while burn still does damage, it doesnt affect the power of nidoqueen's moves offensively, meaning that Nidoqueen is one of the biggest threats to stall the tier has to offer. Tbh, i dont think nidoqueen will be as metagame defining in this metagame thanks to the unbanning of an 100% counter to every Nidoqueen set (cresselia), but it will always be a top tier threat capable of destroying teams and defensive cores nonthenless. Nidoqueen was suspected a few months back thanks to all of its nearly endless positive traits, so why wasnt it banned? Thankfully, Nidoqueen had some flaws that left it checkable, regardless of her unmatched coverage and amazing power. First off, When nidoqueen dropped in, BW2 was just starting, and many of the changes that these new games and tier shifts (nidoqueen dropping being one of them!) were starting to make RU more offensive overall. Nidoqueen's speed is decent, but not incredible, so if you were running an offensive team it was easy to simply add something that was faster than her that could also OHKO/2HKO her, uxie was also an excellent lead and pivot on these offensive teams, and happened to be one of the best queen checks available. Nidoqueen was also weak to 4 of the most common attacks in RU, Surf, Psychic, Ice beam, and Earthquake/Earth power, making Nidoqueen easier to take down then its bulk would suggest. These flaws were just enough to keep Nidoqueen in the RU tier for the next few months, and as i said at the start of my post, the addition of former BL2 cresselia is also helping out in keeping queen from being too powerful for the RU tier.

    One thing i would like to mention quickly is that i really dont like Nidoqueen as a Stealth Rock setter, it just seems that every time i want to set up Stealth Rock, i could simply knock out the pokemon in front of me instead, often leading to matches where i simply never get the hazard up ;-;. Also, Sludge wave is an excellent secondary STAB on nidoqueen, and helps to ease prediction quite a bit, with Stealth Rock on queen, Earth power, fire blast, and thunderbolt are pretty much needed, so i always end up having to give up this useful tool to something that can be set up more easily by a bunch of other pokemon, but thats just my opinion.

    Overall, nidoqueen is a 10/10 pokemon and she is undeniably one of the best pokemon in the tier, imo, but lets see what this new metagame brings!
  13. Jellicent

    Jellicent Ambien Trance
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,081
    Best Poster: EonX- - Sums up Nidoqueen perfectly~
    Most Creative: Pocket - Always nice to see some cool, new sets for mons that typically run the same set repeatedly


    [​IMG]
    Type: Dragon
    Base Stats: 77 HP / 120 Atk / 90 Def / 60 SpA / 90 SpD / 48 Spe
    Ability: Rough Skin / Sheer Force / Mold Breaker

    Druddigon is the only Dragon dwelling in the RU tier. In a metagame where Steel-types are rare, Dragon-spam can be deadly. So, what exactly are this mon's best sets, what niches and roles does he fill, and how does it fare in the current metagame?
  14. sfgiantsfanmike

    sfgiantsfanmike

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    29
    Wow, no ones posted yet? Let me try my hand...

    [​IMG]
    Druddigon
    Brave Nature 252 HP/252 Attack/4 SpD
    Life Orb
    Sheer Force
    Outrage/Dragon Claw
    Fire Punch
    Thunder Punch
    Super Power/Crunch/Stealth Rock


    This is a set I intend to utilize with Trick Room support, which is why he has the Brave nature to enhance his speed under the Trick Room setting. Outrage shouldn't need much explanation but Dragon Claw is slashed if getting locked in becomes problematic. We all know from TLC that Stoutland can 2hko Escavalier with Fire Fang so using a Sheer Force Boosted Fire Punch should be able to put a dent into the bug, as well as providing unresisted coverage. From there I went with Thunder Punch for super effective coverage on any bulky waters, primarily worried about Slowking as he can take some hits. Super Power if team needs the fighting type coverage, Crunch if we're going to need help with Ghosts/Psychics or Rocks if nothing else can carry it.

    Anyway, Druddigon has many utilities outside of this set, as this is pretty much just a sledge hammer (ease of use but may be clumsy in application). He's most famous for running a Rough Skin set that ParaShuffles with Glare and either Roar or Dragon Tail, if not both. He can use a beastly CB set focusing on 'Dragon/Outrage Spam,' as well as sets focused on setting up Rocks or other offensive/support options.

    Druddigon is also one of the few pokemon that I can think of that can utilize three very good abilities and can tailor sets to each. There are many ways to utilize Mold Breaker, from using Earthquake to hit levitators to ensuring Roar doesn't get foiled by a pokemon ability (only one I can think of is Sound Proof but...). Sheer Force used to be his least useful ability but got a boon in the new Move Tutors, Thunder Punch and Fire Punch being two nice additions to abuse in addition to Crunch and his old stand bys. Rough Skin has been his favored one from what I can tell: he's bulky and can take a nice chunk out of a phsyical attacker just by taking hits.

    Anyway just wanted to get some dialogue going about my favorite dragon :)

    Edit:
    Here's a set I saw Dragon Rider post with a small twist from myself.


    [​IMG]
    Druddigon
    Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
    Mold Breaker/Rough Skin
    Careful/Sassy Nature (252 HP/252 SpDef/4 Def)
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Roar
    Dragon Tail

    Forget where this was posted and have since seen a similar set to this utilized by Giratina in Ubers. The main purpose of this set is to phase reliably and works best with hazard support. The original set as posted had Rough Skin and a Rocky Helmet, which may be a better set up, but I'm going with a set up that ensures that he can phase no matter the ability of the pokemon on the other side. I'm guessing this is beyond niche so the Rough Skin set up may work better in application but the Mold Breaker twist has stayed with me since I saw the post.
  15. Phazon00

    Phazon00

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    167
    [​IMG]
    Druddigon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Hone Claws
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Punch
    - Sucker Punch

    The Druddigon set I posted is a Hone Claws sweeper. I have found that the Choice Band and ParaShuffle sets are very common, and a different set like this can catch opponents off guard. Hone Claws, obviously, is the central move on this set. Since most people expect Choice Band, they will likely switch to a Steel-Type to sponge an Outrage. Well, this is a set-up chance with Hone Claws. Hone Claws buffs Druddigon's already-huge Attack to powerhouse levels, with +1 Dragon Claws, Fire Punches and Sucker Punches ready to rip through teams. Take a look at these calcs-

    +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Druddigon Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 260-308 (89.04 - 105.47%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
    +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Druddigon Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 298-351 (92.54 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
    +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Druddigon Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Uxie: 226-268 (63.84 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Yeah, that hurts. Dragon Claw is the main STAB option, as Outrage is a bad idea for a non-Banded set. As you saw above in the Nidoqueen Calc, it is a very powerful attack at +1. Fire Punch provides an option against Ferroseed, which is always an issue for Druddigon. Also, it hits Sceptile slightly stronger, as well as other Grass and Steel types. The last move is Sucker Punch, which provides Druddigon's only priority, compensating for it's poor Speed. Works for killing faster, frailer things.

    Druddigon's main other options come in that third moveslot. Fire Punch is just one option- Superpower is an arguably better one, but it takes away Druddigon's +1 when used, as well as dropping its defense. EQ is a safer option, but it means you are helpless against Ferroseed, which is a problem. Glare could be used for some support, but on an attacking set, this is a horrible idea. Sticking to the moves above is a good idea, but Earthquake is a solid alternative over Fire Punch. So, think about that.

    Druddigon's best teammates in my opinion, are offensive pokes. Offensive things that weaken your opposing pokes thoroughly enough to the point where +1 hits from Druddigon will cause some damage. The best ways to cause this is through Offensive Pressure and Entry Hazards combined. With your pressure causing Switches, backed up with Rocks and Spikes, you'll definitely get them weakened pretty good. Smeargle is one of the best picks for hazards, and it can also neuter one of their pokes with Spore. For offensive pressure, no core works better than Kabutops + Moltres, the best offensive core in the metagame IMO. With all the switches you'll cause, everything will be half dead before Druddigon comes in to clean up!

    Anything with high base Def. can tank Druddigon hits. Tangrowth can shrug off even a +1 Fire Punch and put Druddigon to sleep. Steelix walls everything that Druddigon can do (Even a +3 EQ isn't a guarenteed OHKO) and either Phazes it out or hits it. Also, faster threats (Moltres, for example) with the bulk to take Sucker Punches can inflict serious damage before Druddigon can even land a serious hit.

    Even though it has some problems, Druddigon is a good threat in the RU Metagame. Being that there are few Steels to tank it's +1 Dragon Claws, this thing can be serious. Beware, or Druddigon will cause some serious damage.
  16. sfgiantsfanmike

    sfgiantsfanmike

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    29
    Hey there. Just wanted to clarify: are those calcs for Rough Skin/Life Orb or Sheer Force? Also, I take it you're maximizing with those calcs using a life orb to demonstrate the potential power lying inside? Your set has Lefties listed...

    Anyway, not trying to be a smarty pants or whatever just looking for clarity as I know it's easy to have a typo or whatever...
  17. Phazon00

    Phazon00

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    167
    Yes, that was a typo. Calcs were with Rough Skin.
  18. sfgiantsfanmike

    sfgiantsfanmike

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    29
    Calcs w/RS? Nice, that means Druddigon should have a certain ohko vs 'Seed w/Sheer Force. Anyway, nice set!

    Quck question(to whomever): now that Cress is back how well does Druddy check her? I was doing 50%+ w/Sheer Force+Life Orb Crunch to the one I faced but that may not be a standard set up on her...
  19. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    650
    [​IMG]

    Druddigon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Outrage
    - Fire Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - ThunderPunch

    This is a good offensive set, which capitalizes upon all the positive aspects of Druddigon, and tries to make up for its disadvantages. Outrage is the best STAB option and the lack of general Steel-types means that nothing will be able to take it. Sheer Force is the primary ability as it powers Druddigon's punches and still has LO boost but not the recoil! Fire Punch takes down the Steel-types that resist Outrage, also Fire Punch is to hit Grass-types without locking into Outrage. Sucker Punch is the cherry on the top, as then it can take on weather, sweepers, or anything faster than itself. ThunderPunch is most a utility attack that isn't going to be used as much as the other ones. It's useful to hit Moltres' that think that they can set up a Substitute on Druddigon while it uses Sucker Punch. Additionally, it hits general Water-types for excellent damage.

    What sets are popular and effective?

    The most popular set is one that 'mike posted above, which utilizes Druddigon's bulk as well as Glare and phazing to infuriate the opponent. The reason why the support set is so effective is because of its bulk, Rough Skin, and unique traits that not many other Pokemon have. Also, access to Stealth Rock just makes everything better, so it can support the team!

    What general roles and niches does this Pokemon fulfill?

    A general niche is one of a supporter, as a sweeper set is too slow outside of Trick Room, and Trick Room isn't a popular archetype, so it doesn't much use. The mono Dragon typing is useful as then it has key resistances to Water-, Fire-, and Grass-type attacks. Rough Skin makes Druddigon an excellent check to physical attackers, and when combined with Sucker Punch makes it a decent check to fast sweepers.

    What advantages does it have over the other Pokemon with these roles?
    The biggest advantage is definitely its typing and bulk. Dragon typing makes it an excellent switch-in to Water-, Fire-, and Grass-type attacks. Rough Skin makes sure that physical attackers are punished even further. Sheer Force powers up Druddigon's other attacks that are used less, such as the punches. Glare allows it to paralyze Ground-types, notably Nidoqueen, although the accuracy is a bummer.


    Disadvantages?

    The Speed is definitely the ultimate downside, combined with a lack of any setup attacks such as Dragon Dance, or Swords Dance, although it does have Hone Claws but that doesn't help the Speed.

    Druddigon is an excellent check to fast and frail sweepers thanks to its excellent bulk and Sucker Punch, but this does mean that it can be outpredicted and be setup on. Also Pokemon such as Tangrowth and Slowking are excellent Pokemon to switch into, as their attacks are easily shrugged off (Tangrowth's case only if Sleep Powder is used). Druddigon threatens almost eveything, especially anything slower. The safest switch-ins are Steel-types but even then a Fire Punch will put a dent in them, otherwise nothing will want to take an Outrage. The technical definition of counter doesn't exist in RU, so there are some checks available. A boosted Outrage will 1-2KO everything, and Steel-types will not want to take a Fire Punch.

    Druddigon hates status especially a burn, as then its power is crippled; poison also gets rid of its bulk. To help this a Cleric would be best, so Clefable or Lanturn is great to have. Clefable will be able to wish pass, whereas Lanturn is a slow Volt switcher so Druddigon can switch in safely.
  20. Leethoof

    Leethoof

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    2,206
    [​IMG]
    Druddigon @ Dragon Fang
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Tail
    - Stealth Rock
    - Sucker Punch

    I've been using Druddigon as a lead, and he works fantastically in this position. Usually go for a turn 1 Rocks, and then begin phasing until something that beats Druddigon appears. Depending on what it is, I'll either switch out to my appropriate counter, saving Druddigon's good bulk and useful resistances for later, or bait into a large amount of damage with Outrage or Sucker Punch. Dragon Fang is because it safely boosts my Dragon Tails, while keeping the opponent guessing at which item I have.
  21. Jellicent

    Jellicent Ambien Trance
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,081
    Sorry for the delay on this one; we were waiting for points to wrap up~

    Best Poster: Yonko7 - Pretty much nailed everything
    Most Creative: sfgiantsfanmike - Some cool, unique sets in there, and a good overview on how to use them


    Points will no longer be included in PotW, as we're retiring them. Hopefully you all will still be happy to continue posting anyway~

    [​IMG]
    Type: Electric / Ghost
    Ability: Levitate
    Base Stats: 50 HP / 50 Atk / 77 Def / 95 SpA / 77 SpD / 91 Spe

    Rotom's unique typing, good Speed, and solid Special Attack give it quite a few niches to fill in this metagame. What are its best sets, roles, teammates, and counters? Essentially, how does Rotom best work in the RU metagame?
  22. BattleStar

    BattleStar

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    637
    Rotom is such a cool pokemon, even when not focusing on its other formes. The main thing IMO that makes Rotom such a nice pokemon is its ability to run different sets and it being unpredictable. Also there is not many complaints in its typing and ability which lets it be immune to 3 prominent types and be a great spin blocker.

    This is my favorite set and a great one at that.

    Rotom@Choice Scarf
    EVs: 252 Spe/ 252 SpAk/ 4 HP
    Timid
    -Volt Switch
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick
    - Hidden Power Ice/ Fighting

    This is such a fun set to use. Rotom is a pokemon that starts up momentum and destroys unprepared teams. Not many pokemon in RU are as fast as this Rotom set and not such a good Revenge Killer. You can easily VS in then out for a clean KO.

    The thing is then Rotom can cripple a opposing team with trick which can really destroy a certain wall or threat. With HP fighting Rotom has neutral coverage, which is always nice to have. A good thing to have is multiple hazards on the field because Rotom can make a lot of switches occur and block spins from occurring.
  23. Jellicent

    Jellicent Ambien Trance
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,081
    [​IMG]
    Type: Psychic
    Ability: Levitate
    Base Stats: 120 HP / 70 Atk / 120 Def / 75 SpA / 130 SpD / 85 Spe

    Cool news, lads: Cress is back ^.^

    You all know the drill. What's this duck's best roles, sets, niches, counters, etc. She's back on the chopping block, so this is a good place to show us your thoughts on this still-controversial drop~
  24. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Messages:
    695
    Nice to see that this is back :)
    [​IMG]
    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 40 SDef / 100 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Moonlight
    - Thunder Wave
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Cresselia is bar none the most controversial mon in RU atm, thanks to its ability to quite literally wall around 3/4 of the tier, thanks to its enormous defensive stats. This set really capitalises on luring in Cresselia counters, such as Escavalier, Drapion etc. and either outright beating them with HP Fire or wearing them down slowly, like with drapion and absol. Although Calm Mind is such a great move on Cresselia, the metagame is so over prepared for mono-attacking cresselia that it is almost impossible to fully sweep with it until all of it's counters have been removed, which is pretty difficult especially as you have to predict perfectly whether for example Escavalier will Pursuit or Megahorn-if you make the wrong move then cress will either be dead or too weak to counter anything any more.

    Cresselia is such a vital member of stall teams at the moment, thanks to its ability to counter some of the most dangerous pokes in the metagame-things like Sceptile, Moltres and Nidoqueen are easily handled by Cressy. Unfortunately, unless you are of a high skill level, then actually beating HP Fire Cress is incredibly difficult without resorting to PP stalling it, as its usual counters like escavalier are defeated. Things such as CB Aggron and CB Entei can break through this set with their incredibly powerful moves, and not fearing much from cresselia in return, thanks to this sets lack of physical defensive investment.

    Now, for this sets incredibly weird ev spread. 252 HP is obvious, to allow Cresselia to tank hits on both sides. 40 SpD ev's allow cress to survive two max damage roll Moltres Fire Blast's at full health after SR, and paralyze it. The speed investment allows cress to outspeed and paralyze Crawdaunt, although you can decide to run 20 speed ev's to outpace max speed bouffolant, which is a major threat to defensive teams lacking rotom. The rest is put into physical defense to take hits from the likes of spiritomb better.

    There is only one full counter to this set really-and that is crotomb. Mono-attacking tomb can easily start calm minding up on cresselia, and eventually break through it with an incredibly powerful dark pulse. Crotomb can also break through a number of common cresselia partners.

    Speaking of team mates, none are better than Poliwrath. Poliwrath is an excellent partner for any cresselia set, thanks to its ability to wall common cress counters. Although this set doesn't have too much trouble with them, Aggron and Entei and SD Lum Absol are still major pains, which is where wrath comes in. Being able to phaze mons out works really well as well, especially with hazard support from the likes of ferroseed and roselia. Qwilfish is another excellent team mate, as it too can take on Entei with ease-although it does struggle more with crawdaunt, absol and aggron. It does have spikes though, which s something that poliwrath lacks. Qwilfish can even act as a Smeargle counter if it packs the right number of speed ev's(184 iirc).

    Thanks to its incredible defenses, this set is most certainly not the only set it can run. Dual Screen, weather support for sun teams and a SubCM set. There are also multiple variations of this set, most of them with Calm Mind over HP Fire to sweep late-game, and more physical defensive investment. Again, some of these sets have completely different counters-the Dual Screens set for example is able to stall out pretty much everything in the metagame, but also lacks the ability to stop things like Crawdaunt with Twave.

    Overall then, Cresselia is a very diverse pokemon, that is incredibly difficult to kill no matter what set it is running.
  25. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    650
    Cresselia has immense bulk.

    She also offers a lot of utility to Sun teams, like Uxie. To make matters better, Moonlight heals 66% in Sun so Cresselia is even harder to take down. Lunar Dance might make everything worth it, as it basically revives a weakened sweeper in their optimal weather. Uxie has its own perks though, as it has U-Turn, Heal Bell, Yawn, Momento, and everything that Cresselia has like Thunder Wave and Dual Screens.

    The gist is that Cresselia can be a jack of all trades, but isn't the 'master' at any, except maybe a pure defensive wall.

    Previously, Cresselia was used as an end-game trump card by Calm Minding up and staying healthy with Moonlight and slowly killing everything. Now though, the metagame adapted to it and it forced Cresselia to beat its own counters with Hidden Power Fire, Ground, or Fighting, for example.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)