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RU Research Week #11 - Garbodor, Swellow, Samurott, Cacturne

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by august, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. august

    august get a grip mothafucka
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    Some rules and stuff stolen from Honko :toast:


    Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:
    • Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
    • Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
    • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
    • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Like I said before, feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.
    The main point of this is to see how some lesser seen RU pokemon fare in the current metagame. Each research week will actually be 2 one week long stages. In the first stage, you are free to theorymon about the pokemon chosen for Research week and talk about what roles / niches they fill and how they fare in the metagame. The second week, feel free to post logs showcasing how the pokemon fared in standard play and talk about how they did in comparison to expectations etc. This extends to IRC, where you can talk about the pokemon / sets you used in either #rarelyused or #pokemon!

    The Research Group Challenge:




    In order to participate you must do the following:
    • Post here or send me a PM with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
    • Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
    • Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!
    This Week's Research Pokemon:

    [​IMG]| [​IMG] | [​IMG] | [​IMG]


    CHALLENGES




    [​IMG]

    • Create and test a set that uses Spikes. Explain what advantages Garbodor has over other Spikers in the tier.​
    • Create and test a set that utilizes the move Curse. Explain what pokemon are good partners for this set​
    [​IMG]
    • Create and test a mixed Samurott set. List and explain some good partners for your set​
    [​IMG]
    • Create and test a set that effectively utilizes Spikes. Explain what advantages Cacturne was over other Spikers in the tier​
    Lastly, remember that these are not the only sets you can test during research week! Feel free to be even more creative than the challenges, and in general just discuss the pokemon!



    ~Points~
    Posting a viable set that completes one of the challenges above - 1 point
    Getting in the top 5 on the PS RU ladder with one of the above Pokemon - 2 points
    Getting in the top 5 on the PS RU ladder with one of the above Pokemon that meets one of the challenges - 3 points
    You can only earn points for one alt. You will receive face value for the challenges, and 1 point for every addition RW mon you use, and 2 points for every additional challenge you complete
  2. Bigblue

    Bigblue

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    Im going to use cacturne and samurott, this is going to be a good week. =)

    Alt: Conchmaster
  3. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    Starting with Samurott, but may use others before the end of the week.

    Samurott Alt: OtteRU
  4. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the Astronaut's pet dog >:3
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    Okay, I will try out Garbodor

    Alt: Junkies
  5. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken neca eos omnes, deus suos agnoscet
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    stop stealing nu mons pls =(

    i'll be using samurott, under the alt daikenki
  6. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¡YA HA!
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    [​IMG]
    Garbodor @ Normal Gem
    Trait: Aftermath
    104 Atk / 200 SAtk / 204 Spd
    Naive Nature
    -Spikes
    -Toxic Spikes
    -Explosion
    -Giga Drain

    Garbodor has a major advantage over other Spikers in that it can be very surprising. It surprisingly has a solid 75 Base Speed, meaning it can run a Naive nature to outrun Modest Nidoqueen and Adamant Kabutops. 104 Attack EVs guarantees an OHKO on Nidoqueen with Explosion, while 200 Special Attack EVs means that Garbodor will do a minimum of 96% to Kabutops with Giga Drain meaning that Kabutops will die after Life Orb recoil (worst-case scenario). Because of this, it can set up Spikes very easily, also being able to decimate Cryogonal. Toxic Spikes is a nice asset against offensive teams, especially if Garbodor can knock out the opposing team's Poison-type, such as Nidoqueen, with Explosion. Its surprise factor makes it a solid Spiker; it also can't be used as set-up fodder due to Explosion.

    [​IMG]
    Cacturne @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Veil
    252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    -Spikes
    -Sucker Punch
    -Seed Bomb
    -Encore

    Cacturne's advantage over other Spikers is its great offensive presence, being able to hit very hard with Seed Bomb and Sucker Punch. This makes it very easy for it to set up Spikes. It can easily annihilate Cryogonal with Sucker Punch, while also having the ability to OHKO Kabutops with Seed Bomb, the threat alone stopping Kabutops from attempting to Rapid Spin on Cacturne. Encore is a great utility move that can allow Cacturne to stop set-up sweepers from setting up on Cacturne; Encore forces switches very easily, meaning it works very well in tandem with Spikes. Cacturne's offensive presence and ability to beat the top 2 spinners in the tier (it even beats all the noobs who use Sandslash :o ) makes it a solid choice.
  7. TROP

    TROP [02:45] <~Molk> i have a personal hatred for druddigon
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    Pretty cool set, but why use hp grass instead of giga drain? Giga Drains guarantees the kill on Kabutops without SR and LO recoil.

    Edit: I'm confused. Is this set supposed to have 252 sp.A or 200 like your description says?
  8. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¡YA HA!
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    Ya I fixed it trop...I wasn't aware it learned it until now XD
  9. senegal

    senegal

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    I am actually a big fan of using Samurott in RU, enjoying this set on a current team:

    [​IMG]
    Samurott (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 120 Atk / 132 Spd
    Mild Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Megahorn
    - Ice Beam
    - Superpower / Grass Knot

    The plan: spam Hydro Pump. Only 7 'mons in August's top 30 resist water, and everything else is so offensively oriented right now that it can't switch in. Max SpAtk for power, 132 Speed to outrun neutral base 55's (Crawdaunt, Bouf, Omastar), and rest dumped into Atk. Someone can probably tweak the spread to perfection to obtain a some extra HP EVs, but I opt to just use as much attack as possible since you never know what your opponent's Slowking spread is going to be (and let's be honest that's Samurott's big selling point)

    Out of the aforementioned 7, I'd say only Lanturn and Feraligatr are consistently good switch ins.
    Show Hide
    Slowking stands to be KOd by Megahorn after switching into Hydro Pump, and all variants are 2HKOd by Megahorn. They tend to rock a variety of EV spreads and so your mileage may vary, but for some parameters: Hydro Pump + Megahorn vs...
    252 SpDef Slowking: min 98
    252 Def Slowking: min 81

    Onto grass types. Sceptile, Lilligant, and Rotom-C are all good switch ins, but offensive versions have a strong chance of being KOd on their next attempt, not to mention each risking a OHKO from either Ice Beam or Megahorn. Hydro Pump vs...
    Sceptile: min 47
    Rotom-C: min 48
    Lilligant: min 55
    Tangrowth: ICE BEAM but even standard defensive have a min damage of 52

    Feraligatr doesn't take Hydro Pumps particularly well, but unless you have Grass Knot he will beat you with Return first. Lanturn you should just flee from, though it takes 35-40% from your physical attacks.

    The option of Superpower over Grass Knot just comes down to what you want to hit. Cryonogal and Clefable (as well as errant Munchlax) will take Hydro Pumps okay but fall to Superpower, but you need Grass Knot to prevent being walled by Poliwrath or Alomomola. The former two are more common, but pick your poison. Forgoing Ice Beam for Grass Knot is also an option since you have Megahorn to hit grass types, but you will then be in trouble against Druddigon and Tangrowth (though Tang can be 2hkod by Hydro).

    He breaks walls down like woah, so most sweepers appreciate his assistance. Swellow and scarved Braviary deserve special mention for being able to take out Samurott's grass type nemeses, while also benefitting from Samurotts ability to break down rock and steel types. Rotom-C also is a standout mention for easily soaking up grass and electric attacks, as well as being able to provide Samurott with safe switch ins via Volt Switch.
  10. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    Well, here's the Samurott set I've been using and it's already gotten me to around 30th on the ladder in about one day:

    [​IMG]
    Daikenki (Samurott) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 120 Atk / 252 SAtk / 136 Spd
    Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Superpower / Megahorn
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    The idea of this set is to allow Samurott to become a potent wallbreaker. Hydro Pump is pretty much your go to move as it will smack just about anything bar stuff like Poliwrath and Roselia. Ice Beam is for those Grass types thinking they're just going to waltz in on Samurott and threaten it out. Next comes your choice of physical move. Both Superpower and Megahorn allow Samurott to break through key threats it would normally have problems with. Superpower is generally preferred as Ice Beam already takes care of most bulky Grass types. With Superpower, special walls such as Clefable, Cryogonal, and Ferroseed are unable to hold you back. Clefable is OHKOed after being hit by any other attack, Cryo is OHKOed regardless, and Ferroseed is 2HKOed after being hit by Hydro Pump or Ice Beam. However, if these special walls are not a problem for your team, then Megahorn is certainly worth a look as this allows Samurott to break through the likes of Uxie, Slowking, and Mesprit without having to rely on Hydro Pump's shaky accuracy for the pixies. Be warned however; the pixies outspeed Samurott and may be carrying Thunderbolt. HP Grass is the last move as the main target of your Grass move, Lanturn, just takes pitiful damage from Grass Knot due to its light weight. HP Grass will have a 47% chance to 2HKO the standard Tank Lanturn set after SR. The EVs focus more on Special Attack and Speed. The Speed EVs allow Samurott to always outrun neutral base 55s such as Crawdaunt, Omastar, and Bouffalant. This allows Samurott to outrun and OHKO all 3 should it be running Superpower. Special Attack is maxed for the damage output and the rest is thrown into Attack to give your physical move of choice some power.

    As for teammates, look no further than Rotom-C. With special walls out of the way, Scarf Rotom-C can clean teams with relative ease. Electivire and Manectric are worth a look as well since both can deter the opponent from using Electric moves on Samurott. Entry hazards go a long way to help Samurott break down opposing walls. With SR and just a single layer of Spikes, Samurott is able to 2HKO Lanturn with HP Grass without question. Rhydon and Roselia are worthy additions. The former can take on just about every physical attacker in the tier while maintaining offensive pressure while the latter can effortlessly wall the Grass and Electric types looking to take out Samurott. For more offensive teams, Smeargle works as its Spore can also potentially remove a Samurott check / counter from the match. Lum Berry Uxie can also work for offensive teams.

    Rotom-C is a major pain in the neck for Samurott to have to deal with. For this reason, Entei can be a worthy addition as it has the bulk to take Volt Switch and resists Leaf Storm. Otherwise, packing checks for faster attackers is wise as Samurott will rarely have the bulk to take a super effective move. Bulky Water types like Lanturn can cover Samurott's Electric weakness and take on many special attackers while physical walls such as Rhydon and Steelix can handle most physical moves aimed at Samurott. Most Grass types can be handled by Ferroseed or Roselia.
  11. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the Astronaut's pet dog >:3
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    Wow, I'm impressed - awesome post EonX and senegal! I know that Samurott had that okay base 100 Atk, but I totally forgot about its 108 SpA :d Rotom-C is definitely an amazing partner for Samurott if it lacks Megahorn; otherwise Slowking would be a bitch. I definitely prefer Megahorn > Superpower, since it's A LOT harder to wear down Slowking than Ferroseed, Munchlax, or Clefable. They are also much uncommon than Slowking. A simple marriage between Samurott and a powerful physical attacker like Escavalier, Gallade, or Druddigon can easily dispatch those special blobs.
  12. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
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    Oddly enough, this is actually the sole reason I use Superpower over Megahorn since Rotom-C simply doesn't care about Slowking. I have used Megahorn though and it's really nice to have for Slowking, but it's not really as necessary for my current team with Rotom-C and Superpower takes out more dedicated special walls that Rotom-C can't break through.
  13. august

    august get a grip mothafucka
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    Awesome posts guys! Do either of you use Samurott with Spikes support? Samurott seems quite dominating with Spikes support, especially since its main counters are slow and grounded, meaning not only are they worn down, but a smart double switch into Smeargle means you can potentially turn them into fodder

    Keep the posts coming :)
  14. Magick

    Magick

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    if its not to late to post an alt (1st post ever so not sure how it things work around here yet), ill be trying out Cacturne and Samurott

    Alt: Digistart
  15. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Gonna go the offensive route and use Swellow!

    alt: Crow5

    EDIT:

    Ok Swellow is an absolute beast. I used it in tandem with Gallade to defeat Steel- and Rock-types easily, along with a F/W/G core of Entei, Kabutops, and Rotom-C. Entei wore down physical walls easily and lured in Kabutops with HP Grass + Flame Plate so Swellow would have an easier time sweeping. Kabutops provided Rapid Spin support for Swellow and some much needed priority to pick of weakened foes. Lastly, Rotom-C provided momentum for the team by bringing its great resistances to the table and scouting the opponent with Volt Switch; furthermore, Rotom-C's Volt Switch and Swellow's U-turn made for a good VoltTurn combo which put a lot of pressure on the opponent. Swellow hits extremely hard, so once you weaken Rock- and Steel-types with something like Gallade, it has an easy time cleaning up late-game. I also used Smeargle to put pressure on the opponent with hazards, making it easier to wear down walls for Swellow and Gallade. Smeargle also had Rapid Spin in the last slot, which made it easier to remove hazards so Swellow and Entei wouldn't be taking too much recoil. I made this team before knowing about Molk's team which is a perfect example of the teammates I was talking about for Swellow.
  16. august

    august get a grip mothafucka
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    So, what experiences has everyone had using the Research Week Pokemon? This will be the last day of this Research Week, a new one will be posted tomorrow~

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