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Discussion in 'BW RU' started by august, Aug 20, 2012.
How did research week last for so long? :/
From the OP: Each research week will actually be 2 one week long stages. In the first stage, you are free to theorymon about the pokemon chosen for Research week and talk about what roles / niches they fill and how they fare in the metagame. The second week, feel free to post logs showcasing how the pokemon fared in standard play and talk about how they did in comparison to expectations etc. This extends to IRC, where you can talk about the pokemon / sets you used in either #rarelyused or #pokemon!
Thank you endorfins, for your very detailed post, and for your very successful and creative team :) Did you find Max Speed Jolly Braviary necessary to Speed tie Jolly Gallade? Just curious, as I settled for a spread that beat Max Speed Adamant Kabutops and put the rest in HP and was very satisfied with the additional bulk
Keep em coming guys! Last day!
Whenever I used Braviary on this team, I made sure that it rarely took hits so the extra bulk wasn't really needed. Also, as you can see, my team is quite vulnerable to Gallade and the rare Timid Nidoqueen. So yeah Jolly Max Speed was the best option for me. I also decided to play test more with Substitute in the last alot as I was rarely using U-turn. As Braviary forces lots of switches, I could easily setup a Substitute. Its funny how people think Kabutops is a good switch in to Braviary when it takes 90+% from a life orb Superpower.
Ah I see. What made you pick U-turn over Substitute or perhaps Bulk Up? Is U-turn + Gothitelle effective in trapping some of Braviary's common counters?
Just playing devils advocate x)
Nice I find it interesting we both used steelix/lanturn core and a crawdaunt which got us both above rank 10 on PS.
Musharna's cleric set:
Musharna @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
- Heal Bell
- Thunder Wave
Honestly, it's not good. Musharna is not that useful of a Pokemon in a tier that has Uxie, Gothitelle, and Mesprit. Musharna's only niche role is the Cleric set, as Choice Specs is done better by Gothitelle, Calm Mind is done better by Mesprit, and general support is done better by Uxie. Musharna's support set is much like Uxie's, except you replace Levitate with "generic terrible ability" and Stealth Rock with Heal Bell.
Heal Bell support in RU is not very useful. RU is a pretty fast-paced tier in which most teams carry multiple sweepers, so if status cripples one Pokemon it's usually not that big a deal. Furthermore, most teams carry Pokemon immune to status whether it be Ground-types for Thunder Wave, Steel types for Toxic, or Fire-types for Will-O-Wisp (that last one's a stretch, but Burn is the least common status ailment out of the big 3). Plus, status moves in RU are just not too common. Most support Pokemon do carry status moves, but they don't use them often. Support Pokemon(read: Uxie :P) generally want to attack, set up hazards, and maybe use a status move if there really is no other option. Not to mention that the biggest threat in RU, Nidoqueen, is immune to the two most common status moves in the game.
Musharna's role as a cleric supporter is just not something RU needs. Uxie's better because it can use Stealth Rock, an infinitely more useful support move than Heal Bell. This is because if you use Stealth Rock on your support Pokemon (all teams use at least one team support Pokemon, but not all use 2), you won't have to use another support Pokemon. When I used Musharna on my offensive team, I found that I had to throw Stealth Rock on one of my offensive Pokemon, which greatly reduced the team's effectiveness.
Needless to say Musharna is not a good Pokemon for an offensive team. It's a decent option for a balanced team or a defensive team, but it's not spectacular either. Lots of things set up on it, and it doesn't have the raw defensive stats to wall mixed. It can either go Physical defense and wall the likes of Feraligatr, or go Special and give Moltres a hard time. Regardless, any sweeper with recovery lols at Musharna because Musharna can't 2HKO anything without significant investment anyway.
The one use that Musharna has, however, is that it can recover health and spread status. Though Uxie can perform the "status tank" role better in a general sense because of Stealth Rock and Levitate, Musharna can hang longer because of Moonlight. Moonlight means it can beat Nidoqueen without falling to 18% health in the meantime. It also lets Musharna handle Moltres better. Musharna can switch into threats better than Moltres can because Musharna doesn't care about 3HKOs while Uxie does.
Musharna is best paired with sweepers who can punch holes early game, take a status move, and then clean up late game with their status cured. Lilligant is a good example of a partner because it can Sleep something, punch a hole in the opponent with a Life Orb Giga Drain, take a Toxic or Wave, and then lead a comeback after Musharna rings its bell. Dragon Dance Feraligatr is an okay example of this as well since he can't reliably deal with any of the 3 status effects well. This role seems rather useful because it gives sweepers a new lease on life, but then you realize that most sweepers in UU use Substitute to get rid of status. Sceptile, Klinklang, Moltres, etc. all commonly use Sub (well not sceptile always but he's usually too busy killing everything to care).
Overall, Musharna is a niche Pokemon. He's good on teams that have Sub-less sweepers, but other than that Uxie is a better supporter for teams because of Stealth Rock and Levitate. If Musharna had Stealth Rock in its repertoire, then it'd be a pretty tough cookie in RU IMO.
will edit this with a ladder if I get that far
Edit: GOTH is banned noooooooo
Originally, U-turn was there to switch in Gothitelle against Pokemon such as Steelix, however i found myself using U-turn less as it was quite easy to trap Steelix and other defensive Rock/Steel-types as they started to setup Stealth Rock. Braviary's awesome power also meant that Superpower would be tearing huge chunks of their HP. I've now changed to Substitute which is very useful when scouting, although it does stack on residual damage which Braviary doesn't like.
Yeah, Steelix + Lanturn has replaced Slowking + Steelix! Its a very solid defensive core that is only really weak to Ground moves, a perfect opportunity for Braviary to come in!
I used Musharna early on in this research week and although it wasn't amazing, I don't think Calm Mind sets are completely outclassed by Mesprit and Uxie
Musharna (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell
Unlike Mesprit and Uxie, Musharna has Synchronize (better than Forewarn), which along with Heal Bell, lets it outstall walls hoping to stall it with Toxic. When they Toxic you, they'll be Toxiced as well. You can then Heal Bell away the status once Toxic begins stacking up. Not that amazing, but much better now that Gothitelle is banned. After further playtesting, I can establish that Musharna is very very bulky, it can easily setup Calm Minds and start sweeping. It takes 35% from a Life Orb Druddigon Outrage! After a Calm Mind almost nothing can OHKO it. Good partners are Pokemon that can get rid of Drapion / Spiritomb as they can wall and Pursuit trap Musharna.
252 Atk Choice Band Spiritomb (+Atk) Pursuit vs 252 HP/252 Def Musharna (+Def) : 62.61% - 74.31%
2 hits to KO
Musharna can live and come back in if need be!
Musharna does indeed have a problem with so many opposing Psychics and Darks in RU. The only things it seems to have in its favour are access to Moonlight and a better ability than Uxie or Emurit coupled with Heal Bell, which basically is a sort of Psycho Shift alternative that also clears other status effects in your team.
Also, you forgot that you can't really switch out at all on a Pursuit Pokemon. I'm assuming your stat is for Pursuit without switching. It would be a 1HKO with switching, and you'd want to switch anyway as all you have as an attack is Psychic.
The new Research Week pokemon are posted! Remember that you are not limited to the sets encompassed by the challenges! You can use any set for the Research Week pokemon! :)