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RU Stats: April 2013 (1850 stats are up!)

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Molk, May 1, 2013.

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  1. Molk

    Molk mfw houndoom might drop
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Oh by the way, i totally forgot about the 1850 vs standard stat comparison haha, i'll add that to the OP right now, and like i did with the 1850 stats we got yesterday, i'll include them in this post too for easy access :). Now we can see exactly how much things increased and decreased :o.

    1850 comparison stats (open)

    Code:
    + ------------------ + --------- + 
     | Pokemon            | Diff (%)  | 
     + ------------------ + --------- + 
     | Entei              | +4.93697% | 
     | Slowking           | +3.40699% | 
     | Uxie               | +3.28922% | 
     | Qwilfish           | +3.27057% | 
     | Rotom-Mow          | +3.03267% | 
     | Moltres            | +2.71989% | 
     | Amoonguss          | +2.71684% | 
     | Druddigon          | +2.65050% | 
     | Emboar             | +2.57226% | 
     | Cryogonal          | +2.45692% | 
     | Tangrowth          | +2.33962% | 
     | Kabutops           | +2.18554% | 
     | Escavalier         | +1.93490% | 
     | Spiritomb          | +1.90404% | 
     | Snover             | +1.78351% | 
     | Rotom-Frost        | +1.37856% | 
     | Roselia            | +1.35901% | 
     | Magneton           | +1.17524% | 
     | Rotom              | +1.14613% | 
     | Walrein            | +1.13528% | 
     | Alomomola          | +1.12281% | 
     | Absol              | +0.94248% | 
     | Medicham           | +0.90906% | 
     | Smeargle           | +0.86923% | 
     | Mesprit            | +0.85856% | 
     | Natu               | +0.66026% | 
     | Audino             | +0.65719% | 
     | Zangoose           | +0.60107% | 
     | Tauros             | +0.55912% | 
     | Musharna           | +0.55403% | 
     | Sawsbuck           | +0.54724% | 
     | Sawk               | +0.52381% | 
     | Rhydon             | +0.52189% | 
     | Swellow            | +0.50629% | 
     | Braviary           | +0.46952% | 
     | Seismitoad         | +0.45924% | 
     | Misdreavus         | +0.45408% | 
     | Piloswine          | +0.43116% | 
     | Samurott           | +0.41082% | 
     | Kadabra            | +0.39392% | 
     | Skuntank           | +0.35479% | 
     | Golurk             | +0.34671% | 
     | Golem              | +0.31943% | 
     | Articuno           | +0.29345% | 
     | Vigoroth           | +0.28761% | 
     | Primeape           | +0.24364% | 
     | Kangaskhan         | +0.23125% | 
     | Poliwrath          | +0.22062% | 
     | Regirock           | +0.20682% | 
     | Lanturn            | +0.19150% | 
     | Lilligant          | +0.18202% | 
     | Sigilyph           | +0.17595% | 
     | Lickilicky         | +0.17210% | 
     | Drifblim           | +0.12980% | 
     | Miltank            | +0.11542% | 
     | Tangela            | +0.11489% | 
     | Heatmor            | -0.10008% | 
     | Pineco             | -0.10398% | 
     | Butterfree         | -0.10488% | 
     | Kingler            | -0.10821% | 
     | Tropius            | -0.10943% | 
     | Raichu             | -0.11100% | 
     | Regice             | -0.11165% | 
     | Shedinja           | -0.11201% | 
     | Klinklang          | -0.11928% | 
     | Altaria            | -0.11980% | 
     | Vileplume          | -0.12128% | 
     | Electrode          | -0.12130% | 
     | Simipour           | -0.12962% | 
     | Liepard            | -0.12975% | 
     | Lopunny            | -0.13156% | 
     | Weezing            | -0.13919% | 
     | Torterra           | -0.14040% | 
     | Gorebyss           | -0.14315% | 
     | Glaceon            | -0.15157% | 
     | Wartortle          | -0.15748% | 
     | Linoone            | -0.16164% | 
     | Persian            | -0.16672% | 
     | Shuckle            | -0.16852% | 
     | Cacturne           | -0.17003% | 
     | Riolu              | -0.17136% | 
     | Ursaring           | -0.17143% | 
     | Regigigas          | -0.17934% | 
     | Beheeyem           | -0.17960% | 
     | Ampharos           | -0.18130% | 
     | Gardevoir          | -0.18663% | 
     | Murkrow            | -0.19144% | 
     | Slaking            | -0.19187% | 
     | Arbok              | -0.21146% | 
     | Scolipede          | -0.21713% | 
     | Duosion            | -0.21862% | 
     | Durant             | -0.21906% | 
     | Beartic            | -0.23527% | 
     | Exeggutor          | -0.24681% | 
     | Pinsir             | -0.27351% | 
     | Leafeon            | -0.27704% | 
     | Gurdurr            | -0.27706% | 
     | Meganium           | -0.28009% | 
     | Clefable           | -0.28203% | 
     | Ditto              | -0.28266% | 
     | Dragonair          | -0.29425% | 
     | Masquerain         | -0.29605% | 
     | Hitmonchan         | -0.29964% | 
     | Torkoal            | -0.31415% | 
     | Bastiodon          | -0.34011% | 
     | Gigalith           | -0.34073% | 
     | Cradily            | -0.41998% | 
     | Ludicolo           | -0.43276% | 
     | Rampardos          | -0.47270% | 
     | Sandslash          | -0.47884% | 
     | Scyther            | -0.48031% | 
     | Steelix            | -0.51033% | 
     | Armaldo            | -0.52504% | 
     | Mandibuzz          | -0.52857% | 
     | Ninjask            | -0.53478% | 
     | Lapras             | -0.55321% | 
     | Manectric          | -0.62201% | 
     | Charizard          | -0.81001% | 
     | Crustle            | -1.07615% | 
     | Sceptile           | -1.11129% | 
     | Drapion            | -1.20580% | 
     | Crawdaunt          | -1.25340% | 
     | Omastar            | -1.37413% | 
     | Quagsire           | -1.45554% | 
     | Hariyama           | -1.45591% | 
     | Feraligatr         | -1.54708% | 
     | Aggron             | -1.75850% | 
     | Archeops           | -1.93442% | 
     | Hitmonlee          | -1.97574% | 
     | Dusknoir           | -2.01076% | 
     | Aerodactyl         | -2.01684% | 
     | Electivire         | -2.20842% | 
     | Whimsicott         | -2.21534% | 
     | Magmortar          | -2.69725% | 
     | Gallade            | -2.96166% | 
     | Cinccino           | -3.20580% | 
     | Typhlosion         | -3.22345% | 
     | Accelgor           | -3.68352% | 
     | Galvantula         | -3.84827% | 
     + ------------------ + --------- +


    kk, here a few comments i have about the comparison :>.

    First off,

    | Qwilfish | +3.27057% |

    Really cool to see Qwilfish with such a damn high weight, i really love Qwilfish a lot and i think its probably one of the if not the best defensive Spiker at the moment because of a combination of its typing, Intimidate, and support movepool. I find it really easy to fit Qwilfish into my teams and it always performs really well for me, glad to see other players are doing the same.

    | Snover | +1.78351% |
    | Rotom-Frost | +1.37856% |
    | Walrein | +1.13528% |

    As i expected, most of the common Hail Pokemon have high weight in the 1850 stats as well, just goes to show how damn powerful Hail is as a playstyle (Walrein x_x), even if snover's a pretty mediocre Pokemon outside of setting up Hail for its teammates. For some reason Glaceon actually has a negative weight though, didn't expect that at all >.>.

    | Alomomola | +1.12281% |

    This is something else i'm really happy to see, Alomomola's quite the underrated defensive Pokemon in RU at the moment with those massive Wishes, and with all the support its getting on the forums, plus the new stall RMT by user August advertising it, i expect Alomomola's usage to continue to rise, but we'll see in a few days when the new stats come out.

    | Sandslash | -0.47884% |

    Didn't really expect this after i saw how much usage Sandslash had even in the 1850 stats, but Sandslash actually has a really low weight in the 1850 stats despite being like #15 in them, really goes to show just how many people use the thing even though its pretty damn mediocre >.>.

    | Galvantula | -3.84827% |

    ...ouch
  2. EonX

    EonX Wiseman Eon
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    Not really surprised to see Rotom-C so high up on the weight list. Through my time with working on its analysis and testing out its sets for viability, changes, etc. it has proven to be a very solid team member, no matter the set really.

    Also, I didn't expect Galvantula to have a high weight, but -3.8%+? Dang.

    Glaceon's negative weight might have something to do with the fact that Hail Stall seems to be preferred to Hail Offense (hint why Walrein and Rotom-F are pretty decent in terms of weight, but Glaceon isn't)
  3. MicfiJasan

    MicfiJasan

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    So I kinda hinted at a follow-up to my previous post, and after doing a bit of work on Excel, I came up with some interesting findings. First, Swamp-Rocket mentioned seeing a fair amount of Sandslash around 1700, and after playing with Antar's weighting formula, I determined that you actually only need a weighting of 1733 to buff a Pokemon's usage in 1850. A bit higher than what he's seen, but certainly a lot lower than 1850.

    But Sandslash's 1850 weight is lower than his normal weight, but it is still above average. Given this knowledge, I made an attempt to make find the "ideal weight" for each Pokemon. I did this by comparing the percentage of weighted usage vs. real usage for both normal and 1850 stats (taken since February's stats for the top 59 plus the recent drops minus Munchlax plus Walrein). I took the difference between those percents, and added them to the 1850 weights (I'm basically assuming going from normal to 1850 is a step in the right direction, so I'm taking the next step). Taking the stats using these weights, I came up with these "idealized" usages. Here's the results, if any of you are curious.

    Show Hide
    [scroll=30]Slowking 30.66917
    Druddigon 22.74579
    Uxie 21.87007
    Entei 18.72538
    Rotom-Mow 16.41036
    Kabutops 16.31343
    Spiritomb 15.48175
    Amoonguss 13.44645
    Escavalier 13.27519
    Sceptile 12.12930
    Tangrowth 12.12068
    Moltres 11.22285
    Cryogonal 10.79460
    Qwilfish 10.36376
    Emboar 10.19459
    Absol 10.11294
    Gallade 10.01605
    Sigilyph 9.98518
    Snover 9.24622
    Cinccino 9.14000
    Clefable 9.09799
    Steelix 8.98283
    Rotom 8.91039
    Lanturn 8.78710
    Sandslash 8.74067
    Hitmonlee 8.34083
    Durant 8.29218
    Aerodactyl 8.13188
    Smeargle 7.28233
    Medicham 6.70673
    Galvantula 6.60933
    Hitmonchan 6.52349
    Poliwrath 6.27361
    Typhlosion 5.95186
    Bouffalant 5.88246
    Magneton 5.76202
    Mesprit 5.63848
    Omastar 5.42140
    Feraligatr 5.38970
    Aggron 5.32946
    Dusknoir 5.28978
    Lilligant 5.00143
    Magmortar 4.75378
    Manectric 4.70714
    Crustle 4.59463
    Accelgor 4.42943
    Ferroseed 4.38779
    Archeops 4.36961
    Walrein 4.24683
    Scyther 4.17277
    Rhydon 3.71270
    Alomomola 3.32732
    Klinklang 3.07618
    Quagsire 3.06577
    Drapion 2.81299
    Hariyama 2.79501
    Crawdaunt 2.71086
    Mandibuzz 2.05918
    Primeape 2.02832
    Electivire 1.88054
    Jynx 1.84612
    Whimsicott 1.66070
    Scolipede 1.47607
    [/scroll]


    A couple things I noticed:
    • Alomomola is still on the bubble, but that's because only this month was really exceptional for her. She'd be a shoo in with another good month though.
    • Meanwhile, Walrein gets in, largely because how strong he is in 1850. Speaking of Hail, Snover garners over 9% usage using this model. That said, I don't have data on the other possible abusers minus Jynx, so I can't say how close they would be.
    • Sandslash and Dusknoir are still RU, although I don't remember ever seeing them this low (Slash was actually below 6% the first month I took these, he's been doing better since then). On a sorta nostalgic tangent, looking through old stats, can you believe there was a time when Sandslash was #3 in usage? (heck less than a year ago even).
    • Outside of the regular anomalies (oxymoron?) this list meshes pretty darn well with the Viability Rankings list. All of the S-Rank Pokemon are in the top 12, including all of the top 5. Also, all of the suggested drops bar Klinklang are from Pokemon in C-Tier or below.

    I do have a list of the "ideal weights", but this imo makes more sense since the pure weighting list was basically Hail>all. It also potentially unfairly makes "flavor of the month" Pokemon (in this case Alomomola) look like Top 5 threats. This already assumes Walrein and Snover are 1 and 2. I think this is because fluctuations of half a percentage point means a lot more to Pokemon with 0.5% usage.

    EDIT: As it turns out the simpler method of adding the 1850 vs. standard differences to the 1850 stats gives exactly the same results. What a whole lot of extraneous effort.
  4. col49

    col49 unpolished
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    | Kangaskhan | +0.23125% |

    Even if I feel its mostly me using this, still good to see its somewhat more appreciated by the upper bits of the ladder :] Its also quite cool to see the hate for Alomomola finally dulling down, it is a pretty solid 'mon, even if it still is total set-up bait :P

    Anywho, kinda upsetting to see Galvy so under-appreciated in the 1850 stats, it really isn't that awful a 'mon :/ I feel as though its gotten a bad rep by players that have been using it poorly on the ladder (ie.there are a very few and very specific reasons to use Specs over Life Orb, and most teams don't fit into those specific categories), and tbh the metagame really does it some favors (most of the more common 'mons are smashed between its STABs). I mean, hail kinda ruins it a little, but hail kinda ruins 90% of 'mons running Life Orb to an extent.

    Kinda odd to see certain 'mons with positive weight, mostly Sawk, Natu, and Audino (all the other weird 'mons still look like something I would / did run, so I can't complain .-. ), so if someone wants to elaborate on those a bit I'd be pretty interested to hear it.
  5. Molk

    Molk mfw houndoom might drop
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    Natu's positive weight in the 1850 stats is probably mostly from melol, i was getting a bit bored and i decided to try out a full volturn team just for fun, sadly, i couldn't use a spinner without breaking the full volturn core, so i decided to use Natu to block hazard setters while still being able to maintain momentum with U-turn :s. I expected it to be pretty bad to be honest, but it actually pulled its weight when it really counted. Many of the common Hazard setters such as Qwilfish, Roselia, Ferroseed, and Smeargle actually can't touch Natu, and i could even stall out some of the stronger physical hazard setters with Reflect+Roost. Not a great mon by any means, but its a legitimate option if you want a way to keep hazards away but can't afford to take a turn to Rapid Spin.

    I've seen Audino a bit in my laddering experience, and although it recieves a lot of competition from Clefable on Stall Teams its still a pretty legitimate option imo, and it was actually pretty annoying at times. Regenerator helps Audino a whole lot, functioning similarly to Regenerator on Alomomola in that it lets Audino focus less on healing itself with Wish and more on keeping its teammates healthy. Magic Guard is still the better ability overall, but this quality is definitely a plus for Audino. Regenerator also makes Audino decent at setting up Dual Screens and Trick Room, if needed. I haven't really used Audino *that* much myself, but i know user: Slory has used it to success in the past.

    I can't really explain sawk though lol :s
  6. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Mold Breaker is probably sawk's only real niche. I'd say a CB set with Mold Breaker is the only one that should be used, imo. It breaks past sturdy and hits levitating Pokemon like rotom with EQ. I'm only theorymonning, but it seems decent. Although, the niche is very small.
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