RU Teambuilding

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I talked to people on #rarelyused and everyone agreed that Fire Blast is pretty much useless. A +2 Sucker Punch even does more to Tangrowth than Fire Blast! Fire Blast only 2HKOes Tangrowth, resulting in you getting slept or KO'd. Same with +2 Night Slash. Not much utility with that move. Also, like c_l said, Megahorn is a lot better! Hopefully someone will post the Swords Dance set :p
 


Absol @ Lum Berry
Ability: Super Luck
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 HP
Moves:
~ Swords Dance
~ Night Slash / Sucker Punch
~ Megahorn
~ Superpower

This is more of a wallbreaker than sweeper, I generally use sucker punch over night slash and keep megahorn and superpower (Absol definitely lacks enough move slots).

Code:
No LO - No SD Calcs:
- Megahorn vs 252/252 Musharna: 52.75-62.38% (guaranteed 2HKO after SR or Spikes)
- Megahorn vs 248/144 Slowking: 74.08-88.04% (guaranteed 2HKO)
- Megahorn vs 252/252 Tangrowth: 44.05-51.08% (guaranteed 3HKO, 78.52% 2HKO after SR or a layer of spikes)
- Superpower vs 252/96 Steelix: 38.41-45.19% (guaranteed 3HKO, 2% 2HKO after 2 layers of spikes, 88% 2HKO after 3)
- Attack vs 252/252 Quagsire: 29.18-34.51% (Absol can't do shit to Quagsire because motherfucker has unaware)
- Sucker Punch vs 252/252 Qwilfish: 37.12-44.01% (Night Slash has advantage over Megahorn in this case, because Night Slash crit OHKOes Qwilfish with a SD boost whereas Megahorn doesn't do shit)
- Superpower vs 252/252 Poliwrath: 27.86-33.07 (Poliwrath walls Absol into eternity)


Role:
Wallbreaker
What it does: He breaks walls. Simple as that. His methods are simply amazing. Motherfucker fucking OHKOes the most beastly of the physical walls after a single SD boost.
Good Teammates: Simple enough to say: Everyone. Even walls of your own don't like walls and this guy is a monster. This guy would appreciate some help for Poliwrath, Qwilfish and Quagsire though. Rotom-C can take this job.
Counters: Shit with high HP, Defense and the ability Unaware. Poliwrath, Quagsire and Qwilfish counter Absol pretty well.
Any additional info: Life Orb over Lum Berry converts 3HKOes on Tangrowth and Steelix into 2HKOes (without SD boost that is) so that is also an option (probably a better one).
 
Tinted Lens means you're always hitting with a neutral move. On the CM set, let's examine which two attacking moves you can use, and what walls you. First off: A succesful wall is when a move doesn't 2HKO. Secondly: No boosts, as per your statement about hitting hard immeaditly.

Psychic and Air Slash. Loses to Cryogonal, Uxie, Aggron, Steelix, Escavalier and Mandibuzz.

Psyshock and Air Slash. Loses to Aggron, Steelix, Escavalier, Omastar, Uxie, and Mandibuzz.

Psychic and Heat Wave. Loses to Cyrogonal (without SR), Uxie, Mandibuzz, and Slowking.

Psyshock and Heat Wave. Loses to Uxie, Mandibuzz, Omastar, and Slowking.

As you can see, CM Sigilyph can't go through walls without boosts, and even then, most of these don't become OHKOs.

One of the strengths of the Specs set is that it doesn't have 4MSS. With just Air Slash, Psyshock, and Psychic, backed by Tinted Lens empowering your resisted moves, the stuff that walls you whittles down to Mandibuzz. The arguement that they hit about the same is horrible because Specs can use Psyshock to beat Slowking, while CM can't. And this is just an example: The point is that Specs is harder to wall. CM, once you know the set, isn't. And you still haven't given me one reason that Specs Sigilyph isn't a good wallbreaker, only arguements that CM is a better sweeper. I concede CM is a good sweeper, and I haven't said anything to the contrary. What I have been saying is that CM can't break through walls and you've offered no proof to the contrary. Heck, in my opinion, CM shouldn't even be part of this debate. We're comparing apples and oranges set wise. When I posted this, I expected to be arguing whether Specs Moltres was a superior wall breaker. I even started planning the arguement in my head.

And you can't say that CM is a better choice of a team slot without knowing the team. Is CM Sigilyph good used alongside SubCM Entei, or would Entei prefer the wallbreaker? What about QD Lilligant? Which would it rather have as a team member?
As Zeb said, it is viable to use 3 attacks+CM if you want a wall breaker set, with air slash, HW, and a filler (either HP ground or psychic probably), you still kill everything that specs does but you still have your SR immunity, an ability to switch moves, and an ability to boost up.

You're right, I haven't said at all how tinted lens is a bad wall-breaker, I've just said that CM is better.

I don't see how the previous argument was horrible. The only thing you gain from specs is bashing through slowking and uxie a little easier with psyshock. Though locking yourself into a psychic move is generally a pretty crap idea seeing how popular dark types are in our current metagame. If they decide to switch out to drapion or spiritomb and you don't double-switch, you've automatically lost whereas CM will beat most common drapion sets if you get the CM up and you still have a chance against spiritomb.

Honestly, if using sigilyph alongside either entei or lilligant, I'd rather be using something that isn't so dependant on team support which specs clearly is due to being much more exposed to SR and pursuit.

In short, CM can still break through walls and you still have a lot more versitality and lack of required support.
 

jake

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One of the strengths of the Specs set is that it doesn't have 4MSS. With just Air Slash, Psyshock, and Psychic, backed by Tinted Lens empowering your resisted moves, the stuff that walls you whittles down to Mandibuzz. The arguement that they hit about the same is horrible because Specs can use Psyshock to beat Slowking, while CM can't. And this is just an example: The point is that Specs is harder to wall. CM, once you know the set, isn't. And you still haven't given me one reason that Specs Sigilyph isn't a good wallbreaker, only arguements that CM is a better sweeper. I concede CM is a good sweeper, and I haven't said anything to the contrary. What I have been saying is that CM can't break through walls and you've offered no proof to the contrary. Heck, in my opinion, CM shouldn't even be part of this debate. We're comparing apples and oranges set wise. When I posted this, I expected to be arguing whether Specs Moltres was a superior wall breaker. I even started planning the arguement in my head.

And you can't say that CM is a better choice of a team slot without knowing the team. Is CM Sigilyph good used alongside SubCM Entei, or would Entei prefer the wallbreaker? What about QD Lilligant? Which would it rather have as a team member?
You could always use CM + 3 attacks if you're so worried about having extra boosts. Keep in mind that "doing a ton to Slowking" isn't exactly the most precise argument either, since CM Sigilyph beats Slowking with or without Roost, as well. You're right in saying that Specs requires a little less support because it doesn't have 4MSS, but both sets can just as easily wallbreak and every set loses to Mandibuzz (CM sets up on non-Thunder Wave Uxie, actually...). CM isn't strictly "easy to wall" as you insinuated, because it actually hits harder than a Specs set after a boost thanks to having +1 SpA and LO boost, and it certainly has the ability to break through walls. The only difference is that you're giving up one moveslot for the freedom to choose moves and Magic Guard.

I mean, I don't get what you're implying by saying that CM isn't a wallbreaker. Depending on the moves you select, sure, some Pokemon can handle it, but you can obviously customize CM Sigilyph for your team and use the proper moves to eliminate X Pokemon.

I've actually been meaning to test out a Tinted Lens Sigilyph set, though. It sounds interesting, albeit a bit prone to Spiritomb and Drapion and friends.
 
Okay, CM+3 attacks works for wall breaking. Though I'm confused about 2 points. A. When did Zeb mention CM+3 attacks? He posted after you and you didn't edit. B. If we were assuming it was CM+3 attacks the whole time, I don't see how I could have known. The standard Offensive LO always carries roost. And I have two points left for specs. A wall breaker, by definition, breaks through walls. Sure, you can add HP Ground or Heat Wave or whatever to beat wall X, but even then you still can't beat all walls with the CM set. Trick Specs beats all the walls, including Mandibuzz if you predict well enough with Trick. Quite honestly, even if you only get 1 hit on a wall, it becomes easier for your sweeper to KO it later. And, while Dark types can be annoying, most are 2HKOed by Air Slash and very few score 1HKOs with Pursuit if Sigilyph stays in. So, they can only come in after Sigilyph gets a kill. And, in order to get the kill, they need SR. Kind of funny, in my opinion. Just to eliminate their target reliably, they need some support that takes 1 turn to switch in, 1 turn to execute, and 1 turn to switch out. Similar to Rapid Spin, right? Sure, they can get it out at the start, but there are ways to prevent it, I'd imagine. Taunt comes to mind, as most are fairly slow. Also, most SR setters with the exception of Steelix and Sashed ones can be OHKOed. But I still feel that being SR weak has little barring on a wall breaker, either way.

The best part about Wallbreakers is that your opponent generally has to sac something. They can either lose their wall, letting your whatever sweep, or they can sac another member to get their revenge killer in. In which case, you switch. My point being that a good wall breaker only has to come in once or twice to either finish the job, or rip an exploitable hole in the opponent's team. It doesn't matter if it's HP is at 50% because it already outspeeds what it wants to and slams them hard enough that they aren't doing anything worthwhile for the rest of the match. While CM is easier to use thanks to being immune to passive damage, but they're using two different styles. CM needs specific moves to beat certain walls, while Tinted Lens doesn't. In my own opinion, if I had to chose between beating 75% of walls with no support, or 100% of walls with a little support, I'd spring for the 100%.
 
Zeb posted the option for 3 attacks on his original CM sigi post on page 2.

If you could post a wall that walls air slash/HW/HP ground better than it walls specs as an example.

Again, CM can wall-break as well as being able to clean up pretty nicely which is another perk it has over specs if darks or something like magneton are still hanging around. So I still don't really get your argument. For your last point, refer to my earlier request.

Tinted lens is definitely a good ability, but carrying a STAB which has an immunity and also having access to CM and magic guard is just too good to pass up for your reasons that aren't really that justified in my view.
 
Zeb posted the option for 3 attacks on his original CM sigi post on page 2.

If you could post a wall that walls air slash/HW/HP ground better than it walls specs as an example.

Again, CM can wall-break as well as being able to clean up pretty nicely which is another perk it has over specs if darks or something like magneton are still hanging around. So I still don't really get your argument. For your last point, refer to my earlier request.

Tinted lens is definitely a good ability, but carrying a STAB which has an immunity and also having access to CM and magic guard is just too good to pass up for your reasons that aren't really that justified in my view.
Wonder how I missed that. No, this is not sarcasm, I'm legitamately curious as to how I missed it.

Uxie, Slowking, Clefable, and Mandibuzz.

I don't know if there is some official defination, but here's my opinion. If a sweeper is beaten by every wall in the tier, why would anyone use? Let me use an example: LO Jolly Crawdaunt can beat Steelix if with a little bit of prior damage at +1. Is it a wall breaker? In my opinion, no. It loses to Poliwrath. What I'm getting at is this: No wall can stand up to every sweeper in the tier. If there was, stall teams wouldn't need 5 or 6 walls to stop the whole tier. Just because a sweeper can beat some, heck, even a majority of them, it isn't a wall breaker, in my opinion. A good wall breaker destroys all walls in a tier. Everything that doesn't do this, I consider your average sweeper.

Of course, when it comes down to it, this is all about opinions. I'm fine giving Specsglyph some support because it gets the results I want, and while CM needs much less support, it doesn't get the same results.
 


Lilligant (F) @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Fire

Role: Special Sweeper
What it does: Lilligant is one of RU's most dangerous special sweepers, thanks to its access to Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance. In addition, Lilligant boasts a great base 90 Speed, which allows it to outrun the majority of the RU tier and get off a Sleep Powder + Quiver Dance combination. In addition, it has a great base 110 Special Attack stat, the highest of any Grass-type in the tier along with Tangrowth. Despite the fact that it has almost no coverage moves, it doesn't really need it. With a boosted Giga Drain and Hidden Power of your choice, Lilligant easily decimates teams. Of course, Lilligant will either be walled by Escavalier or Moltres depending on which Hidden Power is chosen, but that's what teammates are for. Lum Berry is a great option for getting rid of troublesome status such as paralysis or Toxic poison, while Life Orb provides a good power boost. Leftovers is also an option, but usually inferior since Lilligant is rather frail anyway, and Giga Drain also provides healing of some sort.
Good Teammates: Depending on what Hidden Power type is chosen, certain targets need to be eliminated before attempting to sweep with Lilligant. If Hidden Power Fire is chosen, Moltres, Entei, and Fire-types in general need to be taken out, as they will completely wall Lilligant's moveset. If Hidden Power Rock is chosen, Steel-types not neutral to Grass-type moves such as Escavalier, Magneton, and Klinklang need to be eliminated before attempting a sweep. In addition, Lilligant may be quite powerful, but if you aren't running a Life Orb, entry hazards are crucial to get some easier KOes.
What Counters It: As previously mentioned, counters to Lilligant depends on what Hidden Power type you choose - Fire-types wall Lilligant with HP Fire, while Steel-types wall Lilligant with HP Rock. Of course, even then, they aren't completely safe due to Lilligant's access to Sleep Powder. Pokemon with the Sap Sipper ability, such as Bouffalant or Sawsbuck make decent checks, but they must beware a boosted Hidden Power.
Any Additional Info: Lilligant is one of RU's most prominent threats, and should always be taken into consideration when building a team. Make sure to figure out what Hidden Power type it is running, and then you can more easily gain the upper hand.
 

Molk

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Rhydon (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def (Can Be evd many different ways to serve your team)
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock / Megahorn
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Megahorn / Roar / Substitute

Role: Hazard User / Physical Wall
What it does: Rhydon is one of the most underrated pokemon in the RU tier. With its impressive physical stats, and surprisingly usable special defense after eviolite is factored in, rhydon is perhaps one of the best tanks available. Rhydon doesnt just boast the best physical bulk in RU, but also the best physical bulk in the entirety of pokemon, enabling it to take things like LO feraligatr waterfall. Stealth Rock is almost required on any bulky pokemon that learns it, its sheer utility of weakening some big threats like moltres is too much to give up. Earthquake and Rock Blast are very powerful STAB attacks that provide all the coverage rhydon needs for the most part, and they sure hurt even without investment, as rhydon's attack approaches 300 even without evs. The last slot depends on what you need, Megahorn takes down tangrowth and slowking on the switch, while roar allows rhydon to phaze every physical threat without a water or grass move (even +2 toxic boost zangoose). Substitute is best used with a more offensive ev spread to hit things hard from behind the safety of a sub that many opponents struggle to break. If using sunstitute, use megahorn in the first slot. Rhydon can run a myraid of ev spreads to adapt to what attacks you want it to take or how hard you want it to hit.
Good Teammates: Rhydon practically needs a teammate to take its water and grass weaknesses, this is really the only easy way to take out rhydon so most opponents will attempt to get their slowking, tangrowth or whatever in as quickly as possible. Grass types such as tangrowth, amoonguss, and roselia are excellent choices to take on these weaknesses, switching in easily and either crippling opposing pokemon with status, or in rose's case, stacking spikes up to rack up hazards damage. Slowking is also a good partenr, being able to take on all of rhydons weaknesses bat STAB grass-type moves, and also taking some of the load off of rhydon with regenerator, meanwhile rhydon beats drapion and choice band spiritomb for slowking with its impressive bulk. Due to rhydon's lack of reliable recovery, wish support from things such as clefable, lickilicky, audino, and shitmola is a good way to keep rhydon alive.
What Counters It? Tangrowth, Slowking, anything with a special water or grass move can check rhydon unless its specially defensive.
Any Additional Info: Life Orb Adamant Feraligatr Waterfall vs 252/252+ rhydon : 268 - 324 (64.73% - 78.26%)
 

destinyunknown

Banned deucer.
Wonder how I missed that. No, this is not sarcasm, I'm legitamately curious as to how I missed it.

Uxie, Slowking, Clefable, and Mandibuzz.

I don't know if there is some official defination, but here's my opinion. If a sweeper is beaten by every wall in the tier, why would anyone use? Let me use an example: LO Jolly Crawdaunt can beat Steelix if with a little bit of prior damage at +1. Is it a wall breaker? In my opinion, no. It loses to Poliwrath. What I'm getting at is this: No wall can stand up to every sweeper in the tier. If there was, stall teams wouldn't need 5 or 6 walls to stop the whole tier. Just because a sweeper can beat some, heck, even a majority of them, it isn't a wall breaker, in my opinion. A good wall breaker destroys all walls in a tier. Everything that doesn't do this, I consider your average sweeper.

Of course, when it comes down to it, this is all about opinions. I'm fine giving Specsglyph some support because it gets the results I want, and while CM needs much less support, it doesn't get the same results.
Well, in that case there isn't any pokemon that fits that name ?.?

Except something ridiculous like SD LO Adamant Terrakion but that's a rare case. A good wallbreaker is supposed to take down most walls on the tier. Consider there are 10 walls on a tier (it's just an example) and that, let's say, Kakuna can beat 9 of those walls. Teams can only 6 pokemon, so it's highly likely that you'll be able to cause a lot of trouble to most stall teams, and even those having that 1 wall that stops Kakuna, you have other 5 slots when you can add a pokemon that lures and kills / weaken that pokemon.

Oh and pls know your facts better, CM LO Sigilyph beats Slowking and Uxie without trouble, can beat Clefable in the majority of times and with some luck / last pokemon situation, it beats Mandibuzz too. So ....
 
Well, in that case there isn't any pokemon that fits that name ?.?

Except something ridiculous like SD LO Adamant Terrakion but that's a rare case. A good wallbreaker is supposed to take down most walls on the tier. Consider there are 10 walls on a tier (it's just an example) and that, let's say, Kakuna can beat 9 of those walls. Teams can only 6 pokemon, so it's highly likely that you'll be able to cause a lot of trouble to most stall teams, and even those having that 1 wall that stops Kakuna, you have other 5 slots when you can add a pokemon that lures and kills / weaken that pokemon.

Oh and pls know your facts better, CM LO Sigilyph beats Slowking and Uxie without trouble, can beat Clefable in the majority of times and with some luck / last pokemon situation, it beats Mandibuzz too. So ....
Slowking and Uxie can both paralyze you, and if it's Slowking, he can simply alternate between Slack Off and Scald until you die. If it's Uxie, he can simply skip T-wave and U-Turn a physical revenge killer in, such as Archeops (no item, not a +Atk nature, and can OHKO with Rock Slide and any stronger variant), or Aerodactyl. While this isn't walling Sigilyph, I'm fairly certain Sigilyph isn't breaking Uxie without a lot of prior damage, which is the definition of a wall breaker. With Clefable, you have 3 turns before Seismic Toss kills you. While you also 3HKO at +1, guess who has Wish, or rarer but more useful in this situation, Softboil? The only chance Sigilyph has at winning is some funky predictions with when it will use Protect, where Sigilyph can Calm Mind and 2HKO. And, Mandibuzz? It only wins in a last pokemon situation, as Mandibuzz can simply take 40% max from Airslash, Whirlwind it away, then roost. The only time it stands a chance against Mandibuzz is in a last 'mon situation. And that isn't so much as Wallbreaking, because you're not getting rid of it for anything.

The wording I used was wrong, when I said beat, I meant have some way to eliminate it as a threat. I.E. A toxiced wall with no form status recovery isn't useless, but significantly less effective to use because of the damage it's taking every turn. And, if something isn't effective, it's easier to play around. All you have to do is lure it in and force it out repeatedly, and between the Toxic nullifying leftovers and any entry hazards you may have, the wall will eventually fall into the KO range of whatever you're using. This is the reason CB Entei can carry Toxic, so it's not useless against the likes of walls such as Omastar and Slowking. Despite not destroying them, CB Entei still helps break them with Toxic. My point being is that there's more than one way to break a wall, and if all else fails, a good Wallbreaker should at least be able to cripple a wall. Up in OU, you have wallbreaker Salamance, who can fire of Draco Meteor if it can't finish a wall to ensure it's hit for something. Specsglyph can do this with Trick, as most walls hate being locked onto a move. I suppose I should have gone into this in my previous post.

And the problem with your example is: I don't find it worth it to run two slots for the same brand of support. As, that's what a wall breaker is. It's supporting a sweeper by eliminating what walls it. Why should I have to run 2 slots for it, when one pokemon, in theory should be able to get it done? I don't run 2 slots for SR. I don't run 2 slots for Rapid Spin.

Where do we draw the line between a sweeper and a wallbreaker? That's what I'm trying to get at here. No viable Sweeper is walled by the whole tier, otherwise, it's fairly useless. A good wallbreaker needs to either defeat or weaken every wall in the whole tier, and CM can't claim that.
 


Lilligant (F) @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Fire

Role: Special Sweeper
What it does: Lilligant is one of RU's most dangerous special sweepers, thanks to its access to Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance. In addition, Lilligant boasts a great base 90 Speed, which allows it to outrun the majority of the RU tier and get off a Sleep Powder + Quiver Dance combination. In addition, it has a great base 110 Special Attack stat, the highest of any Grass-type in the tier along with Tangrowth. Despite the fact that it has almost no coverage moves, it doesn't really need it. With a boosted Giga Drain and Hidden Power of your choice, Lilligant easily decimates teams. Of course, Lilligant will either be walled by Escavalier or Moltres depending on which Hidden Power is chosen, but that's what teammates are for. Lum Berry is a great option for getting rid of troublesome status such as paralysis or Toxic poison, while Life Orb provides a good power boost. Leftovers is also an option, but usually inferior since Lilligant is rather frail anyway, and Giga Drain also provides healing of some sort.
Good Teammates: Depending on what Hidden Power type is chosen, certain targets need to be eliminated before attempting to sweep with Lilligant. If Hidden Power Fire is chosen, Moltres, Entei, and Fire-types in general need to be taken out, as they will completely wall Lilligant's moveset. If Hidden Power Rock is chosen, Steel-types not neutral to Grass-type moves such as Escavalier, Magneton, and Klinklang need to be eliminated before attempting a sweep. In addition, Lilligant may be quite powerful, but if you aren't running a Life Orb, entry hazards are crucial to get some easier KOes.
What Counters It: As previously mentioned, counters to Lilligant depends on what Hidden Power type you choose - Fire-types wall Lilligant with HP Fire, while Steel-types wall Lilligant with HP Rock. Of course, even then, they aren't completely safe due to Lilligant's access to Sleep Powder. Pokemon with the Sap Sipper ability, such as Bouffalant or Sawsbuck make decent checks, but they must beware a boosted Hidden Power.
Any Additional Info: Lilligant is one of RU's most prominent threats, and should always be taken into consideration when building a team. Make sure to figure out what Hidden Power type it is running, and then you can more easily gain the upper hand.
You should add Miltank to the Sap Sipper counters, plus it can destroy and paralyze Lilligant with STAB Body Slam. Also, a +1 Hidden Power still does not do much damage to Bouffalant, and Bouffalant can easily KO Lilligant with Head Charge or Megahorn.

Also, the Rhydon set is amazing, I have a lot of trouble with it, even with SE attacks such as Surf. Why isn't Rhydon in UU?
 
Why isn't Rhydon in UU?
Because that's where Rhyperior, the fully-evolved version, is. Unless Rhyperior ends up in BL, Rhydon's not moving up to UU to replace it anytime soon. They're not like Porygon2 and Porygon-Z, who are both used differently altogether - their roles are perfectly identical to the point where one would have to be banned to BL before the other could be used in UU under total circumstances.
 

august

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Entei @ Choice Band
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge
- Sleep Talk / Bite

Role: Physical Sweeper / Revenge Killer
What it does: CB Entei is perhaps one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier. 361 Attack alongside STAB Flare Blitz is a force to be reckoned with. Extreme Speed allows Entei to revenge kill a large amount of threats as well, such as Zangoose, Lilligant, Gallade, Absol and many others. Entei is the premiere physical Fire-type in RU, using its 115/100 offensive stats to the fullest. Bite is mostly used for a clean 2HKO on Slowking, but Sleep Powder allows Entei to absorb sleep from Tangrowth, Smeargle, Lilligant, and others while still being quite threatening.
Good Teammates: Rapid Spin Kabutops is a good way to keep Stealth Rock off of the field so Entei can continue to come in, as well as being a good way to weaken opposing bulky Water-types via Swords Dance + Life Orb boosted Stone Edges. Roselia can come into Bulky Water-types as well and set up Spikes, which Entei appreciates as they help to wear down Slowking + Tangrowth cores. On a more offensive team, Rotom-c and Sceptile can be used to come into Bulky Water-types and force them out with the threat of super effective attacks. Moltres makes good use of Entei smashing even Fire-type resists like Lanturn, and vice versa as well as being able to break the Slowking/Tangrowth core that is able to plague Entei with proper prediction.
What Counters It?: Rhydon, Poliwrath, Omastar. Most bulky Water/Rock mons can switch in atleast once
Any Additional Info: :toast:
 
Because that's where Rhyperior, the fully-evolved version, is. Unless Rhyperior ends up in BL, Rhydon's not moving up to UU to replace it anytime soon. They're not like Porygon2 and Porygon-Z, who are both used differently altogether - their roles are perfectly identical to the point where one would have to be banned to BL before the other could be used in UU under total circumstances.
Well I know that Rhyperior is UU, so maybe Rhydon should move up to BL? It's nearly too strong for RU. Also, the Entei set is quite interesting.
 
Well I know that Rhyperior is UU, so maybe Rhydon should move up to BL? It's nearly too strong for RU.
If something's too strong for RU, it would go to BL2. Not BL.

At any rate, I like the CB Entei set. I haven't faced off against it, but it appears that it would work rather well. Poliwrath is already a Pokemon I wish to employ for RU teams anyway, so I can wall it for the most part.
 

ebeast

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[SET]
Hide Your Kids! (Dusknoir) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Shadow Sneak
- Earthquake

Role: Physical Wall, Spinblocker

What it does and why it's outclassed: Dusknoir's Ghost-typing allows it to block Rapid Spin while walling the Fighting-type powerhouses in RU with it's great 45 / 135 / 135 defenses. Access to Pain Split gave it a niche over Cofagrigus, but ever since Cofagrigus gained Pain Split for itself things haven't been the same for Dusknoir. The addition of Spiritomb in the tier made matters even worse for Dusknoir as Spiritomb holds similar bulk to Dusknoir, but better offensive options. Even with it's decent base 100 Attack Dusknoir isn't hitting very hard with it's weak Shadow Sneak and most Pokemon with Substitute can beat Dusknoir one on one. Even as a physical attacking Spinblocker Cryogonal can still deal with it thanks to Toxic and Ice Beam being a 3HKO, while Dusknoir's Shadow Sneak only pulls off being a 2HKO. In this regards Spiritomb does a better job thanks to it's ability to Pursuit trap Cryogonal or deal devastating damage with Sucker Punch.

What counters it: CroTomb sets up on this like no tomorrow and Moltres doesn't care about Shadow Sneak and can set up a Substitute or get a free hit off.

Any Additional Info: Due to Dusknoir's hands I always thought he looked like a bouncer, preventing threats from passing through your team. Sadly this isn't true anymore as Cofagrigus, Spiritomb, and even Rotom do a better job in this metagame.



[SET]
Rotom @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

Role: Spinblocker / Physical Wall

What it does: While Rotom doesn't have Cofagrigus's amazing defenses, what it does have is an excellent typing in Electric/Ghost alongside Levitate that let it wall many troublesome Pokemon in the RU metagame. Flying-type Pokemon such as Swellow and Braviary deal little to no damage to Rotom, while the powerhouse Escavalier isn't capable of inflicting much damage on the switch. Electric/Ghost isn't just good for defense though, as it gives Rotom excellent STAB coverage that can threaten a lot of Pokemon in RU. Steelix, who would could come into Rotom's STABs fearlessly can't do much damage to Rotom thanks to it's defensive investment and access to Will-O-Wisp. This EV spread allows Rotom to outspeed positive Speed nature base 55 Pokemon such as Crawdaunt, Omastar, and Bouffalant and disrupt them before they lay a hand (or claw, tentacle, etc) on Rotom.

Good Teammates: Drapion is a great partner for Rotom as it takes advantage of Rotom shutting down Steelix and Escavalier for an easier SD sweep, while maintaining excellent type synergy. Clerics such as Lanturn, Clefable, and Lickilicky share good type synergy with Rotom and can cure Rotom of any status ailment.

What counters it: CRYOGONAL, it gets through most Ghost-types and can Toxic stall Rotom thanks to Recover and it's massive special bulk. Clefable is immune to burn thanks to Magic Guard, can easily take any hit Rotom has, and start setting up Calm Minds in its face.

Any Additional Info: This Pokemon is deceptively bulky and cute :3
 

[SET]
Hide Your Kids! (Dusknoir) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Shadow Sneak
- Earthquake

Role: Physical Wall, Spinblocker

What it does and why it's outclassed: Dusknoir's Ghost-typing allows it to block Rapid Spin while walling the Fighting-type powerhouses in RU with it's great 45 / 135 / 135 defenses. Access to Pain Split gave it a niche over Cofagrigus, but ever since Cofagrigus gained Pain Split for itself things haven't been the same for Dusknoir. The addition of Spiritomb in the tier made matters even worse for Dusknoir as Spiritomb holds similar bulk to Dusknoir, but better offensive options. Even with it's decent base 100 Attack Dusknoir isn't hitting very hard with it's weak Shadow Sneak and most Pokemon with Substitute can beat Dusknoir one on one. Even as a physical attacking Spinblocker Cryogonal can still deal with it thanks to Toxic and Ice Beam being a 3HKO, while Dusknoir's Shadow Sneak only pulls off being a 2HKO. In this regards Spiritomb does a better job thanks to it's ability to Pursuit trap Cryogonal or deal devastating damage with Sucker Punch.

What counters it: CroTomb sets up on this like no tomorrow and Moltres doesn't care about Shadow Sneak and can set up a Substitute or get a free hit off.

Any Additional Info: Due to Dusknoir's hands I always thought he looked like a bouncer, preventing threats from passing through your team. Sadly this isn't true anymore as Cofagrigus, Spiritomb, and even Rotom do a better job in this metagame.



[SET]
Rotom @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

Role: Spinblocker / Physical Wall

What it does: While Rotom doesn't have Cofagrigus's amazing defenses, what it does have is an excellent typing in Electric/Ghost alongside Levitate that let it wall many troublesome Pokemon in the RU metagame. Flying-type Pokemon such as Swellow and Braviary deal little to no damage to Rotom, while the powerhouse Escavalier isn't capable of inflicting much damage on the switch. Electric/Ghost isn't just good for defense though, as it gives Rotom excellent STAB coverage that can threaten a lot of Pokemon in RU. Steelix, who would could come into Rotom's STABs fearlessly can't do much damage to Rotom thanks to it's defensive investment and access to Will-O-Wisp. This EV spread allows Rotom to outspeed positive Speed nature base 55 Pokemon such as Crawdaunt, Omastar, and Bouffalant and disrupt them before they lay a hand (or claw, tentacle, etc) on Rotom.

Good Teammates: Drapion is a great partner for Rotom as it takes advantage of Rotom shutting down Steelix and Escavalier for an easier SD sweep, while maintaining excellent type synergy. Clerics such as Lanturn, Clefable, and Lickilicky share good type synergy with Rotom and can cure Rotom of any status ailment.

What counters it: CRYOGONAL, it gets through most Ghost-types and can Toxic stall Rotom thanks to Recover and it's massive special bulk. Clefable is immune to burn thanks to Magic Guard, can easily take any hit Rotom has, and start setting up Calm Minds in its face.

Any Additional Info: This Pokemon is deceptively bulky and cute :3
SubTaunt can give Rotom some trouble, too, if the opponent predicts correctly. I'm talking primarily about Whimsicott here, which can eventually hit Rotom with Leech Seed to give it trouble. This makes it even easier for Clefable to set up.
 

Molk

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Golurk @ Choice Band
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd OR 208 Hp / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Shadow Punch
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch

Role:Wallbreaker

What it does: If you want to use Choice Band Golurk in RU, please use Iron Fist on it, not shitty No Guard which is currently in what not to use. Anyways, with a combination of 2 excellent STABs, Iron Fist to boost its coverage moves, an awesome attack stat, and usable bulk along with a mixed bag of a typing. Golurk is one of the strongest, if not most underrated wallbreakers available in RU. Earthquake OHKOs most offensive pokemon, and 2hkos any defensive pokemon that doesnt resist it. Shadow Punch provides good coverage, and is powered up by iron fist. Shadow Punch allows Golurk to OHKO slowking. Shadow punch also lets golurk break through many bulky psychic and ghost types more effectively, such as uxie, mesprit, cofagrigus, and Rotom. Ice Punch scores a solid 2hko on tangrowth after Stealth Rock, while also KOing braviary, swellow, and other flying types. Drain Punch is mainly filler, but the recovery is awesome and is a good move to spam if the opponent has a ground immunity, but you need to break through some shit like steelix or klinklang.

Good Teammates: Although golurk is able to 2hko every pokemon in the tier, it still enjoys a bit of support to get past its checks. One of the best ways to support your golurk is through entry hazards. Stealth Rock and Spikes make golurk even more devastating then it already is, giving regenerator pokemon such as tangrowth and amoonguss less breathing room, while also securing 2hkos on alomomola and physically defensive tangrowth. Golurk also appreciates a fast teammate such as sceptile or manectric to clean up after golurk has broken down the opposing defensive core. Moltres and Magmortar are also good partners, as they can cleanly OHKO the only common pokemon that has any chance to wall golurk, tangrowth, in return golurk can threaten opposing slowking and lanturn (it can take weak scalds at least once, just be aware of a burn).

What counters it: Golurk is happy to say that it has a grand total of 2 shaky as hell counters. Weezing is not 2hkoed by any attack golurk has and can burn in return, but isnt very common and only has pain split for recovery, meaning golurk can still beat it. Tangrowth can freely switch in on any attack not named ice punch and sleep powder either it or one of its teammates to death, or giga drain/leaf storm for the KO. The most reliable way to beat golurk is to revenge kill it with a faster grass, water, ice, dark, or ghost type pokemon. Be aware that golurk is actually decently bulky and can take UnStabbed/weak moves that hit it super effectively

Any Additional Info: Its a 9 foot tall possesed mecha that can fly, of course its going to smash shit.
 

TROP

BAN DRUDDIGON. FIREWALL DRAGON DID NOTHING WRONG
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Fraxure @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Aqua Tail / Low Kick
- Taunt

Role: Physical Sweeper, GOD
What it does:It sets up Dragon Dance to boost its already good Attack Stat to beat down most pokemon in the tier with . Outrage is obvious, it is Fraxure's strongest Attack and everything that is not a steel type won't want to take one of those, even when unboosted. Third Slot is up to what you feel you need to hit harder, Aqua Tail his Rhydon and Archeops pretty hard without Locking itself in outrage and has overall pretty good coverage being resisted only by Ferroseed, if you danced before, it also helps in checking Moltres. Low Kick offers perfect coverage and hits pokemon such as Steelix, and Aggron harder than Aqua Tail would, it also allows Fraxure to OHKO defensive Cryogonal no matter what without locking itself in Outrage. Taunt is awesome for DD fraxure, because it allows it to set up on most defensive pokemon that will try to status it first, allowing it to get at least a Dragon Dance.Eviolite is the preferred item because it gives Fraxure extra bulk that allows it to set up on pokemon such as Tangrowth lacking hidden power Ice,and non specs Manectric, but a Life Orb can work too if you really want the extra power, but the added bulk will be more helpful most of time. Jolly allows Fraxure to hit a prety good 384 speed stat , allowing it to outspeed everything unboosted in the tier that is not called Aerodactyl and Accelgor.

Good Teammates: Pretty much anything that can set up hazards and fits on an offensive team. Gallade is also a great partner because it beats down the few things that Fraxure can't 2HKO depending on its coverage move. Magneton is also a great teammate, trapping the steel-types that resist Fraxure STAB, and helps him in allowing Fraxure to mindlessly click Outrage later.

What counters it: Ferroseed is probably the closest thing to a counter, but unless it is packing Gyro Ball, Fraxure uses it as set up fodder. Steelix is also close to being a counter and can avoid the 2HKO from a +1 Aqua Tail and hit Fraxure pretty hard with Gyro Ball in return. Rhydon is also a great counter if Fraxure is not using Aqua Tail, because Low Kick is barly a 3HKO while Earthquake 2HKOes Fraxure.

Any Additional Info: strongth. Don't use Superpower on DD Fraxure please, Low Kick gets overall the same kills, the only thing you are really missing a stronger hit on is Ferroseed.



SubTaunt can give Rotom some trouble, too, if the opponent predicts correctly. I'm talking primarily about Whimsicott here, which can eventually hit Rotom with Leech Seed to give it trouble. This makes it even easier for Clefable to set up.
Speaking of Whimsicott, this thread needs it for WHAT NOT TO USE



Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Encore
- Toxic

Role: Death Fodder

Why it's bad: priority subseed sounds really annoying in theory, but in actual practice it is not as successful as one might think thanks to the availability of plenty of good grass-types in the tier that simply don't give a fuck about anything Whimisccott will do to them. Giving free +1 to Bouffalant and the rare but still effective Sawsbuck is not something you really want to happen when it can do shit to them. Also if it gets forced out, giving Sigylyph a free turn to boost or simply sit there to outstall you is not a good idea either.

Any Additional Info: this thing gets walled and stopped by a mighty lv 1 bulbasaur. If you really want to use Whimsicott, use it with U-turn and Taunt to keep momentum in your favor and maybe prevent hazards fro being layed down, because except for Scolipede, Roselia, and Accelgor, Whimsicott has pretty good matchup against common hazard setters and can taunt them before they do anything or simply u-turn the fuck out.
 

Molk

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Sceptile @ Life Orb
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute / Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Focus Blast

Role:Special Sweeper, GOD
What it does: With a blazing base 120 speed coupled with a powerful 105 Special Attack, Sceptile is hands down one of the best Special Sweepers in the tier. Most people dont run Substitute on Life Orb Sceptile, but its a very effective option, probably moreso than leaf storm. Sceptile forces a lot of switches, giving it ample oppritunity to set up. Substitute also means sceptile can safely bring itself to overgrow range to OHKO some bulkier threats, while getting most of its hp back in the process. Leaf Storm gives sceptile some incredible raw power to blast through walls with, but sceptile loses to utility of Substitute. Giga Drain is an excellent move, especially on sceptile. With Sceptile's low hp stat, one giga drain can bring sceptile back to near full hp, basically giving sceptile reliable recovery. Hidden Power Rock takes care of Fire and Flying-types, most importantly Moltres and Entei. Focus Blast rounds off Sceptile's coverage, hitting ferroseed, bulky normal-types, and most importantly, Bouffalant. Its also Sceptile's best non hidden power attack against Escavalier.
Good Teammates: Moltres is an excellent teammate for sceptile, Sceptile removes Slowking, Kabutops, Feraligatr, and Lanturn for Moltres, giving Moltres a much better chance at sweeping. Moltres kills Roselia, Amoonguss, Escavalier, and Cryogonal for Sceptile, allowing Sceptile to clean up late game. Kabutops is also a great teammate for Sceptile, switching in on Entei, provided Sceptile doesnt have a Substitute up. Kabutops also spins away entry hazards for Sceptile, which can severely decrease its longetiveity otherwise. Escavalier is also a good teammate, taking on many of Sceptile's counters, while Sceptile can lure in Fire-Types for escavalier and hit them with Hidden Power Rock.
What Counters It:Roselia and Amoonguss are the best switch ins to Special Sceptile available, resisting Giga Drain and Focus Blast, while not caring very much about Hidden Power Rock, they can also hit back with Sludge Bomb and Clear Smog, respectively, Mandibuzz can take any Attack Sceptile has to throw at her, and can either phaze Sceptile out, or simply KO it with Brave Bird, Roosting off all damage in the process. Specially defensive Drapion Can Easily Switch in on Sceptile, and can 2hko with Crunch. Druddigon and Escavalier can come in on Sceptile rather easily, and threaten the opponents team with some of the most powerful unboosted attacks in the tier. Bouffalant and Nidoqueen have the bulk to take on sceptile once, but will be worn down by repeated switch ins. Entei can reliably revenge kill Sceptile with a Banded Extremespeed.
Any Additional Info: Sceptile is strong as hell, and more people should use substitute, its a great move on it.
 

Molk

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Kabutops @ Life Orb
Trait: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Stone Edge
- Rapid Spin / Waterfall

Role: Physical Sweeper / Rapid Spinner
What it does: Kabutops is one of the most prominent threats in the RU metagame, and is a staple on almost all offensive teams as a physical sweeper, spinner, and Moltres check, all wrapped into one pokemon! With the ability to OHKO even defensive cofagrigus with stone edge at +2, while using aqua jet to dispose of rotom, kabutops is by far the best offensive rapid spinner in the tier. Swords Dance is the crux of this set, boosting kabutops's already high attack to insane levels. Stone Edge, while inaccurate is kabutops's most powerful STAB move, and is perfectly capable of tearing through even the bulkiest of pokemon if it doesnt miss. Aqua Jet allows Kabutops to pick off faster threats, most importantly moltres, one of the most dominant pokemon in the tier with ease. It also makes Kabutops much harder to revenge kill. Rapid Spin is great because kabutops forces many switches, giving kabutops many chances to spin. If you already have a Rapid Spinner, waterfall is a stronger alternative to Aqua Jet, but one of the main reasons you should be using Kabutops is because its a near foolproof spinner, making this a lesser option.
Good Teammates: Kabutops has trouble with Bulky Grass-types like tangrowth, Amoonguss, Ferroseed. Faster Grass-types such as lilligant and sceptile can revenge kill Kabutops. Therefore, Kabutops really needs a teammate to break through these pokemon. Moltres is one of the best teammates for kabutops, easily switching in on anything that isnt a super effective hidden power or a sleep move, and either setting up a Substitute or blasting the switch in. Kabutops also supports moltres by spinning away the ever present Stealth Rock. For faster grass-types such as lilligant and sceptile, Bulky Grasses such as amoonguss and Escavalier, and Ferroseed are all good options. They take any hit the pokemon can throw at them while striking back with strong poison and bug-type moves. Ferroseed can use thunder wave to cripple them for the rest of the match. Entry hazards really help Kabutops get a late game sweep going, putting many potential revenge killers in KO range for aqua jet. Roselia is by far the best option for spiking, taking all the grass-types kabutops hates, in return, kabutops can switch in on fire blasts and flare blitzes for Roselia.
What Counters it: Ferroseed and Tangrowth are the best counters to kabutops, being able to take even boosted Stone Edges and KOing kabutops in return with Gyro Ball/Seed Bomb and Giga Drain, respectively. Ferroseed can also set up spikes on Kabutops. Other Grass-types are also excellent checks, being able to take most hits from kabutops and destroying the crab with STAB grass-type moves. Lilligant, Sceptile, and Rotom-C are the best offensive checks available to kabutops, taking even a boosted Aqua Jet and KOing back with Giga Drain, Leaf Storm, or Volt Switch. Steelix and Rhydon are actually good checks to kabutops despite the water weakness, as most kabutops dont run waterfall these days. If you cant fit any of these pokemon on your team, try to make sure kabutops cannot set up a Swords Dance, kabutops is pretty frail on the special side and has many common weaknesses.
Any Additional Info: +2 LO Kabutops rapid spin vs 0/0 jynx. 722 Atk vs 106 Def & 271 HP (20 Base Power): 127 - 150 (46.86% - 55.35%)

Kabutops rapid spin so strong
 

alexwolf

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Molk said:
Kabutops has trouble with Bulky Grass-types like tangrowth, Amoonguss, Ferroseed, and Roselia.
No way that Kabutops has troubles with Roselia. Unboosted Stone Edge vs max HP Roselia : 87.17 - 102.96%, ohko after SR. If you mean that it can't switch into her, then this means nothing as Kabutops can't come into many pokes in the tier, which you haven't mentioned.
 

Molk

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No way that Kabutops has troubles with Roselia. Unboosted Stone Edge vs max HP Roselia : 87.17 - 102.96%, ohko after SR. If you mean that it can't switch into her, then this means nothing as Kabutops can't come into many pokes in the tier, which you haven't mentioned.

whoops! i forgot roselia was so frail, removing now.
 
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