1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

RU Theorymonning

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Kenny, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    460
    What if Torterra learned Shell Smash?
    That'd be pretty fun, I think, and Torterra is definitely underrated in the current meta. First of all it would obviously (I would think, anyways) eliminate the Rock Polish set (because who uses Rock Polish Carracosta? :p) Anyways, after 1 Shell Smash, Torterra only fails to 2HKO a handful of Pokemon (if it's using Wood Hammer / Stone Edge / EQ), most notably Tangrowth and Exeggutor. This would make fire types like Emboar and Entei decent partners, covering each others' weaknesses (although Torterra is neutral to Water moves.) Infact, Torterra as a part of a FWG core would be excellent, something like Entei or Emboar/Torterra/Qwilfish, maybe with Uxie or someting else with access to Thunder Wave since even after +2 it doesn't outspeed everything. Despite it's new move, I can imagine the Tank sets that are onsite still being used, albeit not as often.

    And something I was thinking of earlier,
    What if Sigilyph learned Nasty Plot?
  2. Turtleye

    Turtleye

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    365
    What if Sigilyph learned Nasty Plot
    Well, Sigilyph could make much use out of it, rasing it already high Special Attack to even greater power, being able to hit with an extremely powerful Stored POwer after 1 or 2 Nasty plots. It's LO set also receives a significant boost, however taking place of a attacking move or for Roost, which is important on this set to let it live longer. Also it is harder for walls to switch in, due to Psyshock which hurts Specially Defensive stuff a lot, exept for Psychics like Slowking.
    Basically, Sigilyph would absolutely enjoy using Nasty Plot.
    Feranfell likes this.
  3. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    758
    What if Sigilyph learned Nasty Plot
    Sigilyph is already an amazing booster with its rare yet deadly Calm Mind set. With NP however it would be extremely scary. Perhaps Nasty Plot could even make a set with Tinted Lens viable, as nothing on the tier would like to take a +2 STAB move since Psychic/Flying is pretty unresisted. Magic Guard would still be useful due to the immunity to passive damage including a nasty weakness to SR.



    Well, what if Abomasnow dropped to RU?
  4. Branflakes325

    Branflakes325

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    164
    This could potentially be extremely deadly besides simply revenge killing. There are a few notable RU (and quite a few UU) threats that lock themselves into fighting or normal attacks (Banded Entei/Scarf Medicham/Emboar/Cinccino/Bouffalant for example). A Lampent set designed to take advantage of this would be a potentially frightening revenge sweeper:

    [​IMG]
    Lampent @ Leftovers/Eviolite (leftovers for neutralizing hail maybe idk)
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe or something
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Shadow Ball
    - Flamethrower
    - Calm Mind
    - Flame Charge

    252+ Atk Life Orb Absol Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Lampent: 244-291 (75.3 - 89.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    This seems like one of the only things that can stop the sweep if SR is up.

    Lampent by itself isn't all that is threatening about this set. A set like this can also aid teammates by threatening with a full sweep if an opponent locks himself into a fighting or normal attack. Something like this can allow your SS Omastar to sweep regardless of any Medichams or Primeapes that would otherwise revenge kill Omastar without a problem. Also, defensive Eviolite Lampent takes 18.2 - 21.6% from banded Escavalier's Megahorn, which would definitely discourage Escavalier from spamming the move like it always does. Though I doubt this gives Lampent the required number of turns to set up for a sweep.

    Theoretically Litwick can pull this off too lol. If I ever get swept by a Litwick I quit.
  5. Turtleye

    Turtleye

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    365
    Oh, right.
    What if Torterra learned Shell Smash
    Well, First things first is that it would be very useful on his Offensive sets, replacing both Rock Polish and Swords Dance at the same time. The loss in defense isnt really a big problem, since Torterra is quite fast after the boost and can outspeed most of its checks. Maybe a White Herb is viable on Shell Smash, but I dont know for sure. However it's defenses on the special side aren't quite as good as his physical bulk, meaning that stuff like Galvantula can still threaten Torterra if scarfed. Also bulky Uxie with Ice beam can be a problem, as they can take the hit then counter with a Ice Beam, KO'ing Torterra. I dont know sure thou, since I cant calc the damage because IE .-.
    But I can see that Shell Smash Torterra would definitely be used.
    Oh, and Torterra's just awesome <3

    So, I've been thinking about this: What if Ferroseed learned Rapid Spin?
  6. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest GHOSTS
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,525
    Okay, I'll chime into the discussion.

    What if Shadow Tag Lampent was released?

    This would be really cool actually. Lampent could run a choice set to revenge a number of threats, such as Amoonguss, Roselia, Escavalier, Cinccino (without LO Rock Blast, of course), and a bunch of others. It could make a viable teammate to Pokemon such as Kabutops, Feraligatr, and Cinccino itself as well, trapping and killing many threats for teams. It also makes an excellent check to hail teams, of which are a powerful force in the RU metagame. Most teams that dislike hail mons such as Glaceon can really appreciate Lanturn's presence to remove them from play, and thus less worries about Blizzards at their Pokemon. I also see a potential SubCM set, with Flamethrower and Shadow Ball, as Lampent can come in on what it can trap while setting up CM in their face as they are completely helpless. This also works well with Memento Whimsicott / Uxie, as they can slice the opponent's offensive power in half, and the former can also set up Dual Screens as well, and with a helpless opponent, Lampent can come in and grab as many CM boosts as it wants. This wouldn't be overpowered, I don't think, but Lampent could do really well and be a viable RU Pokemon.

    What if Torterra learned Shell Smash?

    This would be really cool, the good old Rock Polish Torterra, except this would be that RP set on steroids. Torterra can become a very fast threat, and his EQ, Wood Hammer, and Stone Edge would be more powerful than ever. The great coverage and power between these moves will make Torterra a force to be reckoned with, and Pokemon that can and will sweep you at a moment's notice. It has a real load of power, and it has enough speed to outpace a lot of the metagame and have a lot of power. If Moltres is not too concerning to you, you can also run MixTerra with HP Fire or HP Ice as great options to run, to handle Tangrowth quite handily, although again this leaves it vulnerable to Moltres. It would be great on FWG cores, with partners such as Emboar and Carracosta both being viable. Bulky Smash Torterra might also be a possibility, as HnC said. Overall, I think this would be a legitimate threat in RU, and should see some use in the tier.

    What if Sigilyph learned Nasty Plot?

    This would bring Sigilyph's sweeping potential to another level. This means Sigilyph can run a full on NP set that can threaten many teams, while it can become a threat more quickly. As said, Tinted Lens may also be a possibility, as it would have some pretty much unresisted coverage, but Magic Guard+LO is also good for Sigilyph to hit hard with no damage costs. I think this would be pretty good.

    What if Abomasnow was RU?

    Hail teams are already great as they are, but Abomasnow would make hail teams better than ever. Abomasnow would summon hail to make Walrein, Glaceon, and Rotom-F suddenly real threats while having a wear down timer for everything. However, unlike Snover, Abomasnow isn't dead weight outside of support, for Abomasnow's quality of having actual stats means that Abomasnow can pose a legitimate threat too. He has great 92 offensive stats, two awesome STABs, and a good offensive movepool, so he can put some real opening dents for Glaceon, Walrein, and Rotom-F to thrive better. Abomasnow has great STABs that will send the two best Pokemon in the tier, Slowking and Druddigon, crying for mercy. I can see a Mixed Ebelt set with Blizzard, Wood Hammer, HP Fire/EQ, and Ice Shard, that can cover most of the tier pretty well. Blizzard and Wood Hammer together cover most of RU, and Druddigon and Slowking respectively will lose to Abomasnow one-on-one, while HP Fire handles Escavalier. However, EQ does work out of Entei if you're looking into that (the handling of Escavalier is useful if you're running Walrein as your hail abuser). I also see merit in a SubSeed set, as it can SubSeed+Leech Seed and hail stall, to be a bitch to take down, and stall defensive Pokemon such as Slowking. CB Abomasnow could also be a great physical wallbreaker to remove special walls for Glaceon, Walrein, and Rotom-F. This, along with creating a powerful playstyle while posing a real threat, makes me believe Abomasnow could easily be one of the best Pokemon in the tier.

    What if Ferroseed learned Rapid Spin?

    Ehh, I don't think this will do too much. While this makes a lot of sense given Ferroseed's in-game animation shows it rapidly spinning, Ferroseed will really need help if it wants to remove hazards. It can't do much to many of RU's viable spinblockers, such as Spiritomb, Rotom, and Golurk, due to its low attacking power, and its only hope is to use Leech Seed. It will need Pursuit support from Absol and Escavalier if it plans to pull off successful Rapid Spin attempts. Its lack of recovery and dependence on Eviolite mean that it will also get worn down by Spikes and SR. That said, I could see it working with Pursuit support, as its resistances and good bulk mean it can grab that opportunity to pull off a spin. You never know, really.

    Anyways, gotta keep this discussion going on, so...

    What if Mesprit got Nasty Plot?

    Mesprit is already awesome but this would make it even more awesome, given it could make it a more powerful threat much more quickly than CM.
  7. MicfiJasan

    MicfiJasan

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    Man, I haven't done this in way too long. Attempting to respond in bulk...

    The Nasty Plotters:
    Sceptile: Although This one has kinda run its course, two of the more obvious Sceptile checks, Amoonguss and Roselia, are still excellent checks for Nasty Plot Sceptile if it lacks HP Fire. A +2 HP Rock is still only a 3HKO. Moltres handles HP Fire NP Sceptile the best unless you reach for more obscure counters like Golbat or Altaria.

    Sigilyph: Calm Mind is already plenty scary. Imo all Nasty Plot would do is make stuff like Slowking, Uxie, Clefable, who could usually tank Sigilyph at +1, die more quickly. He wouldn't even need Tinted Lens, as Air Slash is already a likely 2HKO on those that resist Psychic. And I guess it turns quite a bit of 2HKOs into OHKOs on things like Gallade, Entei, and Druddigon, who otherwise could possibly tank a hit and hit back hard. Curse Quagsire strangely enough does quite well against him, being only 3HKOed by any of Sigilyph's moves.

    Mesprit: In a bit of a similar boat to Sigilyph, replacing CM with Nasty Plot would make him quite terrifying to face. However, with the added power, he could start running HP Fire over Ice Beam to handle checks like Specially Defensive Magneton and Defensive Escavalier, since anything that is hit by Ice Beam is still 2HKOed by Psychic or Thunderbolt.

    The Turtles:
    Carracosta: It certainly is very interesting with the addition of Rapid Spin. It can run it alongside Shell Smash to be a slightly slower, more physically bulky version of Weak Armor Kabutops (or the other way around if Weak Armor hasn't activated). Really competition with the already established Kabutops would be the only thing holding it back, since they are very similar when comparing just stats. I could see an edge with a mixed set, using Shell Smash/Rapid Spin/Stone Edge/Ice Beam, something Kabutops can't do nearly as effectively. And as has already been explained a bulky offensive set with 2 STABs and Stealth Rock alongside Rapid Spin and Solid Rock would be effective as well.

    Torterra: Honestly, what Pokemon doesn't wish it had Shell Smash? That said, Torterra probably "deserves" it most flavor-wise (along with Samurott). It would easily replace the Rock Polish set like Feranfell said. Interestingly enough, that one point over Omastar allows it to outspeed Scarf Rotom after a smash, making for 1 less revenge killer. I don't really see anything falling via competition, since his coverage options are pretty unique. SD Sceptile might fall a bit for being weaker overall, not to mention even at -1 Torterra still has more physical bulk, although it still has a niche in Acrobatics. I would keep EdgeQuake with either Wood Hammer or Seed Bomb, depending on whether OHKOing stuff like Mesprit, Spiritomb, and Bulky Rotom is worth the recoil.

    Shadow Tag Lampent: I'll say this now, I don't like trapping, so I'm honestly not looking forward to this release. That said, Special Fire-Ghost is a surprisingly good STAB combination in RU right now (actually, by my calculations, #2), so it has 2 moveslots for things like SubCM or Pain Split. This leads to a bit of 4MSS, but it would still be quite effective nonetheless. I don't think it will be broken, but it will still be a pain to face.
    Molk and Feranfell like this.
  8. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    460
    What if Mesprit got Nasty Plot?
    Like what MicfiJasan said, it would be a great upgrade from Calm Mind, and allows it to hit a lot harder after just 1 boost. It's decent bulk is nice too, helps it not be super weak to priority (although Sucker Punch from Absol and Tomb wreck its day =/). Even a Sucker Punch from Druddigon does a hefty amount, KOing most of the time after SR (even if it doesn't kill its doing a hell of a lot, allowing something with priority like Entei or Kabutops finish it). Either way it'd be pretty cool.

    To keep the ball rolling on the discussion,
    What if Spiritomb got Trick Room?
    This would be like the second-coming of Christofagus (Cofagrigus). It'd work pretty much the same, only a bit inferior (weaker, less bulky, but cooler typing). You could run either HP Fire (like every other mon in RU :P) or HP Fighting for stuff like Aggron, etc. just like Cofag used to run. I think it'd be definitely fun to use, your guys' thoughts?
  9. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest GHOSTS
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,525
    What if Spiritomb got Trick Room?

    OTR Cofagrigus 2.0, here we come. This would be an excellent spinblocker for all kinds of teams, and I'm thinking up a good spiker+Spinblocker combo in Scolipede and Spiritomb, since Tomb can come in on Psychic moves and spin, not to mention the duo keeps Mesprit and Sigilyph well out of commission. Spiritomb could run the same set, with TR, NP, Shadow Ball, and HP Fighting to set up TR, then boost its SpA to high levels. Then it can use the two coverage moves to handily sweep while spinblocking and using the Spikes to nab the KO's more easily. Spiritomb also has the no weaknesses, which is pretty cool to boot. It can also run Dark Pulse, although that means Fighting-types will have an easier time against it. It doesn't have the ability to set up on Scolipede and Escavalier the way Cofagrigus could when he was in the tier. Nonetheless, this should be able to somewhat patch up the woes of those who miss the days when Cofagrigus was in the tier.

    As for a theory of my own...

    What if Misdreavus got Moonlight/Recover?

    While Misdreavus is undeniably a very good Pokemon in her own right, her lack of reliable recovery is a bit of a letdown. She has some very solid defenses with Eviolite, and can support the team with Heal Bell, WoW, and other stuff, as well as maintaining a decent offensive presence. However, she's prone to getting worn down by repeated onslaughts, and her access to Pain Split is not always enough to save her from being repeatedly worn down. However, Recover or Moonlight would also allow her to repeatedly spinblock while keeping her HP up and taking hits, making her a better wall. So how would this do?
  10. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    644
    What if Rotom-C got Sleep Powder?
    [​IMG]
    How do you think this would affect the metagame? Would Rotom-C become more popular? Thanks!
  11. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,862
    What if Crawdaunt Learned Aqua Jet, Sucker Punch or both moves?

    [​IMG]

    at the moment the main thing holding Crawdaunt back from being a huge threat is its mediocre base 55 Speed stat, which means Crawdaunt will be getting outpaced by pretty much every Choice Scarfed Pokemon will outspeed and KO Crawdaunt, and even unboosted pokemon such as Sceptile and Cinccino can ensure Crawdaunt gets eliminated from the match before it can sweep. Of course, giving Crawdaunt a priority move of some form would help remedy this, and possibly make Crawdaunt more threatening than it ever could be without one. Both Sucker Punch and Aqua Jet would be very powerful on Crawdaunt thanks to adaptability, which boosts them to 80 and 160 BP with STAB factored in, respectively. Crawdaunt's Sucker Punch would even be significantly stronger than Absol's Sucker Punch with adaptability factored in, which really says something about just how powerful Crawdaunt with priority would be. Of course, Crawdaunt's reliance on Sucker Punch could leave it open in some situations, as Sucker Punch needs prediction to work against faster Pokemon with moves like Substitute, which means in other situations Aqua Jet would be better, which is much weaker but works consistently. As for how priority Crawdaunt would affect the metagame. I think either Swords Dance or All Out attacker Crawdaunt would start getting much more use than DD Crawdaunt, as it doesn't need the extra Speed boost nearly as much when it has adaptability boosted STAB priority to work with. +2 Crawdaunt is massively powerful, with boosted aqua jet doing 70%+ to frailer resistances such as Sceptile, letting them be taken out with some prior damage. I'd expect Tangrowth and Poliwrath's usage to go up a bit with priority Crawdaunt around, as they're the best defensive checks to Crawdaunt available and probably the only Pokemon that could actually take a hit from +2 Crawdaunt on more defensive teams that can't afford to pack a faster mon with sub/water resist. Seed Bomb Ferroseed might see an increase in usage as well, although +2 superpower would give it a lot of trouble. Use of things like Feraligatr would probably go down a bit too, as Crawdaunt would give them stiff competition as a physical water type when equipped with Priority. I could still see some of them seeing use on certain teams, though.

    So what do you think Crawdaunt would be like with priority? would you rather use Aqua Jet or Sucker Punch on Crawduant? How do you think priority on Crawdaunt would affect the metagame? if it had any effect at all?
  12. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,478
    What if Stealth Rock was banned?

    Or nonexistent in RU, whatever. I think this is an interesting topic because it would change the metagame. Stealth Rock puts a lot of pressure on any type of team and causes people to be a lot more cautious when switching, as a lot of offensive Pokemon turn 3HKOs into 2HKOs with Stealth Rock on the field. The first thing that comes to mind is that Moltres would be insanely good in a metagame without Stealth Rock. It's probably the Pokemon that suffers the most from it. Without Stealth Rock, it could switch in and out more often and take an increased number of hits. There's also the fact that you don't need to worry about spinning, so a teamslot is freed up. What other effects would this have on the metagame?
  13. Lasagne

    Lasagne
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2013
    Messages:
    2,367
    Three words on the topic of no more SR:

    NO. MORE. SANDSLASH.
  14. vyomov

    vyomov

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    867
    More mons would run HP Rock because all the SR-weak mon got a boost, meaning that steel-types would do better in the tier(seeing as they wall HP Rock).
  15. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,760
    Swellow and Braviary would love it without stealth rocks, however Mandibuzz is interesting without rocks. As a wall, Mandibuzz has always suffered from her weakness to it, but now Mandibuzz can come in without taking any kind of damage. It would make her an incredibly useful wall to use with her still great bulk. However, something that Mandibuzz is amazing at and one of her best niches in the current metagame is is being able to phaze as bulky as she is, but without stealth rocks now she can't touch flying types while she phases without stopping phasing and using foul play and taken a powerful hit. This means that the majority of Mandibuzz would have to be physically bulky which the opponent could easily take advantage of and hit the Mandibuzz with a strong ice or electric attack. Two of the pokemon Mandibuzz would have to try and get past, Swellow and Braviary, just got massive boosts. Swellow is already taking lots of extra damage from the toxic he has, however put the stealth rock and toxic damage together and you find a pokemon with seriously nerfed scouting skills. Without stealth rocks Swellow will be flying all over the place using U-turn everywhere. Something that benefits in several ways is Braviary though, all of his choice band, scarf and bulk up sets will be improved greatly.
    Might edit this post when I get back, g2g.
  16. EonX

    EonX The One and Only
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,763
    Priority Crawdaunt: Well, to begin with, the rarely used (pun intended) Choice Band set would get a lot of use as Aqua Jet would fill the otherwise forgettable last moveslot on the set and turn Crawdaunt into a mini-Entei of sorts. I can also see Swords Dance becoming a thing since Crawdaunt has amazing STAB coverage in RU and that Aqua Jet would hurt really damn badly at +2. Sucker Punch would be less of a deal, but would probably see use in a Life Orb set or as the priority move on the SD set (not as reliable as Aqua Jet since it gets outsped by most priority users)

    No more SR: Moltres pretty much becomes insane, if not broken, as SR has always been the one thing that really holds it back. Swellow, Braviary, and Archeops also become loads better. Braviary would become one of the premier Scarf users that he deserves to be. CB Braviary would also be an insane wallbreaker to deal with thanks to the BP of its moves. Swellow and Mandibuzz were touched on already. Hail teams would also benefit greatly as they would no longer have to really concern themselves with a spinner. Lastly, any Pokemon with Levitate would improve as well since they're already immune to (Toxic) Spikes. So, stuff like Rotom (all formes) Mesprit, Uxie, and Cryogonal would become more common than they already are. Cryo would probably start running more offensive sets as it wouldn't need to run Rapid Spin while defensive sets would have an extra moveslot to fit in something like Reflect or Toxic without having to give up Haze or Recover.
  17. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,268
    Priority Crawdaunt: With Sucker Punch + Acua Jet the set Sword Dance should be the manly set over the Dragon Dance Crawdaunt with Adaptability + Life Orb + STAB and +2 in Atk with an Adamant Nature. Poliwrath should be a cool wall except if Crawdaunt has Superpower, mons such SubSceptile and Lilligant should be more popular as well to prevent the Sucker Punch while both resist the Acua Jet move, Crawdaunt should be a mon with a lot of chances against more offensive teams oriented which actually have problems since is frail and slow.

    No Stealth Rock: The metagame would change a lot since #1 Moltres should be banned because is broken w/o Stealth Rock or just by usage should be UU at least. Offensive teams should bring down spinner like LO Cryogonal and Kabutops. Teams should be more oriented to levitate / flying mons such Advance. Anyways, should be more viable stuff like Altaria, Mandibuzz or Flareon like walls while the offensive mons like birds should be super good at RU w/o the Stealth Rock on the field.
  18. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    460
    What if Misdreavus got Moonlight/Recover?
    A welcome upgrade from Pain Split, which is kinda lack luster and unreliable =( Recover would definitely extend its longevity, allowing it to spin later into the match which is pretty cool. Also it would help it tank more fighting types ofc, healing more than Pain Split on average. Not much else to say on this (atleast from me) you covered it pretty much SITB, it's pretty much a nice upgrade that may change the difference between life and death.

    What if Rotom-C got Sleep Powder?
    This would be really damn cool honestly, I think. However (sadly) Rotom-C wouldn't like missing out any of its moves on its sets, like missing out on HP Fire with EBelt would kinda let stuff like Ferroseed set up on it. It could probably stick it somewhere though, like maybe replace Trick on the Scarf set, because I don't end up using Trick that often (although I may be just using it wrong). Considering this, and that Lilligant is a faster sleeper (scarf lilligant is pretty cool☺) Rotom-C wouldn't take huge advantage of this (but feel free to prove me wrong, please do!).

    What if Crawdaunt Learned Aqua Jet, Sucker Punch or both moves?
    I myself don't have much to add, but SD would definitely be really cool with these moves, although sadly virtually every other priority user outspeeds it =(.

    What if Stealth Rock was banned?
    This certainly would be interesting! A lot of cool mons like the aforementioned Moltres would (rightfully) rise up in usage because they no longer need spinner support. Even stuff like Specs Mothim would be cool because a lot less support is needed (that being spinner support obv). However, what becomes of the spinners and stealth rockers themselves? Do the individual Pokemon that do the spinning/stealth rocking see a decline? I think yes, although they of course still have their uses. No Stealth Rock kinda opens up team building a bit. SD Kabutops is still really damn scary, however Cryogonal would definitely be less useful imo. Cryogonal can always function as a special wall to some mons, run an offensive set, haze, etc. With Hitmonchan, it would definitely be running the 4 attacks set 100% of the time. With SR users, Rhydon would (hopefully!) still see usage as it's a really really nice tank that can still pack a punch with EQ and other moves. Perhaps sets like Rock Polish and Choice Band would see more usage, emphasizing on its attacking prowess. We'd probably see a lot more Choice Band/Life Orb and a lot less Leftovers/Rocky Helmet (unless you're using the phazer set =O) Aggron would see a lot more Offensive orientated sets (rightfully so, it hits like a truck). Overall, it would open up a lot of opportunities for new/improved threats, while allowing people to use some other sets that deserve a bit more usage =o

    edit: ok i totally forgot spikes existed so when reading the rapid spin portion of that pls pretend spikes don't exist either pls thx

    now for one of my own,
    What if Regice's DW ability (Ice Body) was released?
  19. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest GHOSTS
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,525
    Okay, here to weigh in.

    What if Rotom-C got Sleep Powder?

    This could find use on Scarf Rotom-C as a useful tool to cripple Absol and a fast Sleep Powder in general is good. This means that things like Scolipede won't be able to take it on as well, and Sleep Powder would be an excellent asset to Rotom-C in general. This would be really cool to cripple an opponent, switch, and constantly come in to fire Leaf Storms and Volt Switches, making Rotom-C an excellent nuisance in general. Rotom-C can also be a good Sceptile check with Scarf Sleep Powder, which is cool. Its main advantage over Lilligant in this would be Electric STAB, so it has the ability to handle Flying-types, so yeah. Not going to massively change it, but Rotom-C would welcome this change.

    What if Crawdaunt got priority?

    CB and SD sets would definitely be better now, and I'd use them for the pure power. SD+Sucker Punch would be cool for the sheer power to just plain up hit hard and break down walls. Aqua Jet is also useful to handle Medicham and gang. Adaptability Aqua Jet and Sucker Punch would be legit, and Crawdaunt would be an amazing wallbreaker in general. This also means that it is not super easily threatened by Scolipede and Sceptile, which is awesome. SubSD+AJet and Sucker Punch would be legit. Also, CB is cool. This should be able to make Crawdaunt more of a threat now.

    What if Stealth Rock was banned?

    This would be a massive change to the metagame, because as we all know, Stealth Rock is a defining aspect of all competitive metagame, ranging from the forbidden land of Ubers to the poor land of NU. Stealth Rock being banned is going to have a number of impacts. Moltres would definitely become absolute top tier, because it is no longer dependent on Cryogonal/Kabutops to be able to succeed, and it can destroy everything with its power. Hell, without SR, Moltres would potentially be bannable tbh, because it has few hard counters now and has more switch in opportunity. Scyther should also see usage as well, because it can now have a smoother time slicing and dicing teams because SR is now a non concern, so it can grab SD and get ready to slice n' dice. These would make SR weak mons much less dependent on Kabutops and Cryogonal to succeed. Kabutops and Cryogonal would definitely be less useful, but however, they will still see much use because Spikes will still be a thing. This also leaves more room for Spikes users on teams, especially Scolipede and Accelgor, who would do better than Smeargle because of their stats now. We'd maybe even see Scarf Galvantula and friends be useful, because SR makes Scarf SR weak mons better in general. And as Feranfell said, hopefully people will stop using the damn terrible SR lead Aggron set, and rightfully use the godly CB set. This would definitely change the metagame.

    What if Ice Body Regice was released?

    Because it's powerful and has the special bulk of God, Regice would be a staple on hail teams. It can take any special hit it wants, and utilize SubProtect and constantly heal itself, walling almost every special attacker in the vicinity. It also hits hard with Blizzard+Thunderbolt, so it can realistically threaten its opponents. It will be a great hail staller and hard hitter.

    So to continue this, here's this:

    What if Dusknoir had a stronger STAB move?

    Dusknoir generally suffers from the fact that its STAB move is pitifully weak, at a laughable 60 BP. How would it do if it had something like a physical Shadow Ball (like Shadow Strike)?
  20. EonX

    EonX The One and Only
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,763
    Ice Body Regice: You can pretty much say hello to the new best Hail abuser. It has crazy good special bulk and base 100 Defense is nothing to scoff at either (remember, Regirock has the same base 100 Special Defense!) Due to its sheer special bulk, Regice could easily run a more physically defensive set with SubProtect and setup on pretty much anything without a STAB super effective move. Of course, a bulky attacking set consisting of Blizzard, Thunderbolt, Sub, and Charge Beam / some other filler could see use as well thanks to its solid base 100 Special Attack.

    Stronger STAB on Dusknoir: While this could help to a certain extent, Dusknoir's issue has to do more with what it has to compete with. Spiritomb is more versatile, Rotom is faster, Golurk is a physical Ghost-type, and even Misdreavus has neat perks with Heal Bell and such. Dusknoir would be a little more versatile with a physical Shadow Ball, but it still has pitiful HP and Speed which are its main drawbacks as a Ghost-type.
  21. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,862
    Ice Body Regice: As several other people have mentioned before, regice would probably be an absolute monster in RU hail, if not the best hail abuser available. Regice has pretty good bulk all around, given that massive special bulk that gives it tons of set up opportunities and its still alright 80/100 physical bulk, which means Regice won't be falling to random physical attacks any time soon. Outside of subtect, Regice has a nice base 100 Special Attack stat to work with along with STAB Blizzard with Thunderbolt as a coverage move. This means that Substitute/Protect/Blizzard/Thunderbolt on some kind of offensive tank regice would be exceedingly effective, and would pressure a very large amount of RU teams with its power, coverage, bulk, and stalling ability.

    Alright, heres an interesting theorymon i thought of.

    What if Accelgor had Sheer Force?

    [​IMG]

    All of Accelgor's abilities are pretty much useless at the moment, with Hydration only working in the rain, Unburden being just plain overkill, and Sticky Hold being situtional, so why not give Accelgor an ability it could effectively use? :o. Anyways, Accelgor's Bug Buzz and Focus Blast both have a chance of a secondary effect (lowering Special Defense for both iirc) so why not give Accelgor Sheer Force to take advantage of that? Sheer Force would boost Accelgor's STAB and Focus Blast just enough to make up for its modest base 100 Special Attack stat, and would help Accelgor grab KOs on bulkier Pokemon more easily while also eliminating Life Orb recoil whenever it uses either of those moves. One example of an important KO Sheer Force Accelgor could score is against Escavalier, where Bug Buzz+Focus Blast from Sheer Force will KO Escavalier after Stealth Rock, meanwhile two Focus Blasts from Accelgor now rarely if ever 2HKOs Escavalier! especially because of the miss chance.

    So what do you think? would Sheer Force make Accelgor significantly more viable than it is now?
  22. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,268
    [​IMG]

    Regice @ Leftovers
    Trait: Ice Body
    EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Blizzard
    - Charge Beam

    This should be scary in RU tier at least, great bulk with 80/100/200 in overall, SubProtect just stall stuff like fast hard hitters easily, remember that Regice has much better SpD bulk than Wallrein and a similar Def bulk (a bit less). Against slow stuff like Clefable Magic Guard which should beat Regice just got smashed by Charge Beam + Blizzard, Charge Beam has a great chance to up SpA while also is a great coverage Charge Beam with a strong Blizzard, the only thing worst in Regice than in Wallrein is that cant make subs of 101 HP so get broke by Seismic / Night Shade but isnt a worrie just add support to this Regice: Toxic Spikes with evs creep on speed to down more easily walls like Lanturn, another defensive mons like Clefable Unaware (when got released) or just uses Thunder Wave support which is pretty good since Regice is slow, you just get faster and the only that you has to do is SubProtect and when he missed / para on your Sub just uses Charge Beam to get probably a boost on SpA.

  23. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Messages:
    460
    What if Accelgor had Sheer Force?
    Hmm, I'm not sure that this ability would be blow-my-mind amazing, but it'd be a nice addition to give Accelgor a little offensive boost. I didn't see any calcs that were super important (not counting Molk's Escavalier calcs) but it does OHKO Rhydon with Focus Blast now, so I guess that's cool if you don't wanna run Giga Drain. Again, not something mind-blowing but it would be cool regardless!

    What if Smeargle got Prankster?
    Outspeeding everything in the tier (bar other Prankster users ;;n_n)and getting a Spore off is pretty cool. Although, the counters to Spore stay the same (sleep absorbers with Sleep Talk and mons with Sap Sipper). This also means it can taunt any opposing hazard setter faster than it can back, no matter their speed investment (for example, I usually run enough speed on Qwilfish to taunt up to Smeargle, but now that would be a fruitless effort). This is also means before you kill it with a faster Pokemon, it'll get off one more layer of hazards than normal because of auto-going-first. Very cool, wouldn't be a SUPER HUGE OMG change but it'd be great nonetheless. What do you guys think?
  24. Branflakes325

    Branflakes325

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    164
    What if Smeargle got Prankster?
    It's interesting trying to think of possible new sets Smeargle could run if it has this ability. One that comes to mind is a Prankster Riolu set with Spore. So Whirlwind/Copycat/Spore would be essential, leaving the last spot for anything else (like Taunt or SR). This seems extremely game breaking lol. Prankster also allows Smeargle to be very threatening when setting up, allowing it to reliably run sets like this:

    Smeargle @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Spore
    - Shift Gear/Quiver Dance/Belly Drum/Tail Glow
    - Ingrain/Sub
    - Baton Pass

    Other Prankster abusing sets include Spore & SubSwagger, level 1 Spore FEAR, and pretty much any utility set imaginable.
    Spore just makes everything better. And Dark Void can be used as an alternative against Sap Sippers with Taunt for obvious Sleep Talkers.
    Molk and Kenny like this.
  25. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,862
    What If Smeargle got Prankster?

    Considering Smeargle learns every move that could possibly benefit from prankster, this would be a pretty big buff imo. Of course theres always the threat of prankster spore to instantly cripple any Pokemon regardless of Speed stat, which is always nice and really frustrating for the opponent, Prankster Stealth Rock and Spikes on the common hazards set would be pretty amazing as well, granting Smeargle an extra layer of hazards in most circumstances as nothing could outspeed and KO Smeargle before it could bar faster priority. I could see Smeargle becoming more possible as a Baton Passer and even a Weather Setter with Prankster too (Prankster Sunny Day/Rain Dance is always cool), if not only because of how damn useful/threatening Prankster Spore is. Smeargle could just use Spore to cripple pretty much any Pokemon without Vital Spirit, Lum Berry, or Sleep Talk and pull off what it wanted to do without a hitch. This would definitely be a huge buff for Smeargle that could even possibly push Smeargle over the edge given just how many ways Smeargle could quickly support its team and (as i've said before) the sheer power of an 100% accurate sleep inducing move that always goes first bar faster priority. (hope this made sense :s).

    Anyways, probably going to edit this with a theorymon of my own later :o

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)