Resource RU Viability Ranking Thread: Abomasnow and Slowking Discussion

[Cheryl.]

Houndoom for A+
Houndoom is fucking amazing in the meta. Fire is an amazing type right now, as it hits the common Ice and Grass types hard. It also has Dark type for coverage, and the Fire/Dark combination is very nice. It can Pursuit trap Psychics, and has a boosting move in Nasty Plot to raise it's already high special attack even higher, to perform a sweep. But Houndoom has some faults. It's pathethic base 50 defense makes it vulnerable to physical attacks, even resisted ones. It also has weaknesses to common types like Ground or Rock. It's base 95 speed, while decent, isn't enough to outspeed the base 100 speed tier without a Flame Charge or Choice Scarf boost. It has Sucker Punch to somewhat remedy this, though. Overall, Houndoom is a very big threat right now and imo should rise even with all it's faults.

Skuntank for C/C-
Skuntank is a pretty bad mon in the current meta. It's niche is in the combination of Defog and Pursuit, but it has a lot of downsides that hinder it too much imo. First of all, it doesn't have a good matchup against most of the Stealth Rockers in the meta, so it receives competition from the premier Defogger, Flygon. It still has Pursuit, but it receives stiff competition from the other Pursuiters as well, like Houndoom or Spiritomb. It also has average attacking stats and average defensive stats overall, so it wont be hurting too much or taking too much either. Overall, Skuntank has a niche, but it's just too outclassed at times to be very useful.

Golbat for C-/D
Another pokemon in the C+ tier that should be brought down. Golbat is a pretty bad Defogger, as it loses to pretty much every Stealth Rocker in the tier, as they resist Brave Bird and hit Golbat for big damage, while the only good damage Golbat can do is Super Fang them. It is reliant on it's Eviolite for it's bulk, so it has to watch out for Knock Off, even from the Fighting types, the things it's supposed to wall. It's weak to Stealth Rock and doesn't have too much of an offensive presence, too. Overall, Golbat has a niche, just like Skuntank, but it's just so bad and reliant on it's Eviolite bulk to do anything to make an impact.

 

[Sweep]

I tried out Lapras a bit this morning because I was a little skeptical that it could accomplish much. After all, 85 Special Attack is absolutely pathetic in a tier with comparatively strong wallbreakers like Clawitzer. Hell, 85 Special Attack is no better than Amoonguss. Couple that with Lapras's SR weakness and terrible Speed stat, and I thought this Pokemon would suck to high heaven. Fortunately, it's actually a lot better in practice than it is on paper. As others have mentioned, STAB Freeze Dry completely solves the issue many wallbreakers tend to have with the dreaded bulky waters. Freeze Dry, in conjunction with Hydro Pump, also prevents any hazard setters (like Qwilfish and Seismitoed) from setting up safely on Lapras. This might seem like a minor point, but well-built offensive teams will always punish attempts by the opponent to set up entry hazards. Ice Beam and Hydro Pump are strong STAB moves that somewhat offset Lapras's mediocre Special Attack stat. Although Ice Shard offers incredibly weak priority, it still helps out against random Focus Sash users. It can also revenge Flygon / Rock Polish Torterra / other speedy mons weak to Ice.

Lapras has pretty good coverage between Hydro Pump / Freeze Dry / Ice Beam, but bulky special walls that take neutral damage to its moves are very difficult to break by. Fortunately, I found Lapras quite easy to support. Mega Steelix, for example, has an easy time dealing with Registeel, many Meloetta, Aromatisse, etc. Mega Steelix also possesses an immunity to Electric attacks while taking approximately 0 from Head Smashes and Stone Edges aimed at Lapras. In return, Lapras offers a Water immunity to handle Alomomola and Jellicent for Steelix. Lapras also has issues with Fighting-types and a lack of reliable recovery, so Aromatisse is a pretty nifty partner. Note that I do not think that Lapras is a "good" or "effective" Pokemon in this metagame, but it accomplishes enough and synergizes well enough with common RU Pokemon to be worthy of a C- rank IMO.

A couple of replays, albeit against ladder players, of Icicle Plate Lapras putting in work:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-254711500
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-254710726

 

[gorex]

-> Up to A-/B+

Gurdurr is a really underappreciated bulky set-up sweeper in this current meta, and it kinda has the best STAB in the current metagame. Bulk Up Gurdurr is the set I really enjoy, because it can 1v1 top threats like Scrafty, Tyrantrum locked in on Head Smash, Sneasel, Virizion before set-up, Durant, Hitmonlee (kinda), etc. It really threatens balance and kinda stall with being able to pose a offensive presence with Bulk Up set-up while being relatively bulky at the same time. Despite not being able to have turn per turn recovery, Drain Punch can help get back some health while being a great STAB overall. Pretty much just pair this with a mon that can take advantage/beat Fairies and you're good to go

Sample Set

Gurdurr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Atk / 36 Def / 16 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off

 

[atomicllamas]

Removed hitmonchan from the list, moved sawk up from B- to B, Spirit will do a more complete update soonish

 

[phantom]

Lol srsly... what a dry ass tier shift

updates:

Dugtrio down to B+
Gurdurr up to B+
Linoone added to D
Lapras added to to C-

needs more discussion:

Sigilyph up to A+
Gallade up to A-

Discussion points (feel free to give your opinion on these and the above, although be sure to elaborate):

Mesprit down to B or stay in B+
Uxie down to B or stay in B+
Braviary down to B or stay in B+

 

[Cheryl.]

Uxie to B: Don't agree with, Uxie is still a pretty awesome bulky Psychic type that can set up Rocks and set up weather and provide momentum with U-Turn. While Dark types being common hurts it, I still think it's solid and shouldn't drop.

Mesprit to B: On the fence with, Mesprit has good bulk and better offensive stats than Uxie, but it's speed tier is lower, it can't set up weather, and faces competition from other Psychic types. Am leaning on dropping it, though.

Braviary to B: Don't agree with, what has changed for Braviary that makes him worse? He's still good as a Choice Scarf revenge killer, Sub Bulk Up stallbreaker, or even Choice Band can work, and it has coverage to help him break through stuff like Mega Lix. Honestly, I could see him in A- right now, but B+ seems like a good place for it.

Gallade to A-: Agree with, this thing is a great balance breaker with lots of viable sets like Choice Band, Scarf, Swords Dance, or even Bulk Up. Gallade may face competition from the other Fighting types of RU, but it's definetely good enough for A-.

Sigilyph to A+: Not so sure about, LO Sigilyph is a pretty cool balance breaker with good coverage and nice speed. It can use Focus Sash to hurt offensive teams, and Calm Mind isn't bad either. (DONT USE COSMIC POWER) But the presence of stuff like ice and Dark types hurt it a lot, and it's outsped by some mons due to that 97 speed tier. It can be A+, but I think it's A material.

 

[Choice Banned]

Just a nitpick, but Torterra was already B-, no need to add it to C+ (it's listed in both).

Spirit edit: oops, thanks for catching that

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

I honestly think gallade is closer to dropping to B then it is rising to A-. The worst thing about gallade is unlike other fighting types like virizion gallade doesn't have it's dark resistance. One of the most important roles a fighting type has is checking dark type but gallade is incapable of doing that because it's psychic typing. Secondly while gallade's SD set is a threat to defensive teams if it sets up but that's if it's even capable of setting up which for gallade it doesn't set up on much bar alomomola. My next gripe with gallade is it has next to no defensive utility for your team which means it checks nothing for your team and can't switch in on anything. Finally it has massive competiton with not medicham but virizion which is better in basically almost every way bar immediate power. For these reasons I think gallade should drop to B.

 

[Wandering Wobbuffet]

Sigilyph to A+: Sigilyph sits at a very strange speed tier of 97 (the only other Pokemon off the top of my head that sit here as well are haxorus and lol luvdisc) It's a blessing and a curse for it cause with 240+ speed it'll outspeed the base 95s. However at this speed tier it can't outspend stuff like mega glalie that if it were faster it could OHKO. However LO sigilyph is a nice addition to any offensive team just due to its fantastic special movepool allowing it to destroy major walls in the tier including the infamous alomomoongus core with psychic/air slash and energy ball. However it can also pull off a pretty decent specs tinted lens set as well due to access to trick and again a fantastic movepool. With the specs tinted lens set which is often overlooked, stuff like rhyperior can't switch into an air slash cause it's not resisted anymore.

tl:dr: Sigilyph's outstanding movepool allow it to deal with so many threats in the meta and it's movepool can be adjusted to take care of Pokemon that would otherwise be very troublesome for your team. Thus Sigilyph for A+ rank.

On the other side of things

Sneasel down to A: Sneasel lacks the raw power to hit the bulky mons in the tier hard enough. Does it do well against offensive teams? Hell yeah! But against balance and stall it can be cockblocked too easily and also gets continuously worn down by SR and LO damage. It also has to be weary of paralysis/burn which make it even more useless against stall. It may definitely have the typing to be great offensively, but with a pretty mediocre attack stat of 95 it often struggles in doing damage.

Lastly I have one more nomination.

Clawitzer for B+
I honestly don't see why this thing isn't B+ it has the coverage to hit the walls that will often try to be in its way and just utterly destroy them with its powerful special attacks. It has its speed holding it back and that's it which obviously stops it from reaching the A area. It has a great ability with a decent movepool. If it didn't have sludge wave in its arsenal as well aromatisse would be a fantastic defensive check to it but a surprise sludge wave can catch that off guard. So due to Clawitzer's good wallbreaking capabilities I believe it is deserving of a B+ ranking.

 

[Punchshroom]

I honestly think gallade is closer to dropping to B then it is rising to A-. The worst thing about gallade is unlike other fighting types like virizion gallade doesn't have it's dark resistance. One of the most important roles a fighting type has is checking dark type but gallade is incapable of doing that because it's psychic typing. Secondly while gallade's SD set is a threat to defensive teams if it sets up but that's if it's even capable of setting up which for gallade it doesn't set up on much bar alomomola. My next gripe with gallade is it has next to no defensive utility for your team which means it checks nothing for your team and can't switch in on anything. Finally it has massive competiton with not medicham but virizion which is better in basically almost every way bar immediate power. For these reasons I think gallade should drop to B.

I don't see why lacking a Dark resistance is detrimental for Gallade when compared to other Fighting-types, considering the main Knock Off users in the tier (Hitmonlee, Drapion, Scrafty, Sneasel) are risky for the other Fighting-types to switch into anyway. Virizion does have the blend of SD + dual STABs combined with good Special Defense (+ better resists) so it is obviously ranked higher in A+, but Gallade's immediate power is still a league above Virizion's and has less defensive counters than Virizion (in exchange for more checks). Gallade shouldn't drop.

Sneasel down to A: Sneasel lacks the raw power to hit the bulky mons in the tier hard enough. Does it do well against offensive teams? Hell yeah! But against balance and stall it can be cockblocked too easily and also gets continuously worn down by SR and LO damage. It also has to be weary of paralysis/burn which make it even more useless against stall. It may definitely have the typing to be great offensively, but with a pretty mediocre attack stat of 95 it often struggles in doing damage

Yes Sneasel has bulky responses to it, but its Dark and Ice STABs still hit an absolutely disgusting amount of Pokemon in the tier. Throw in Low Kick, and it can threaten even more (OHKOing Mega Glalie and deterring Mega Steelix switch-ins, for instance). This mon for the most part is unparalleled at slaughtering offensive Pokemon due to its Speed and coverage, and while it doesn't have the raw power to threaten bulky Pokemon that it hits neutrally (though Knock Off still does a solid chunk to most), keep in mind that few aren't weak to its STABs, and a good deal of them get crippled by Knock Off regardless.

Lastly I have one more nomination.

Clawitzer for B+
I honestly don't see why this thing isn't B+ it has the coverage to hit the walls that will often try to be in its way and just utterly destroy them with its powerful special attacks. It has its speed holding it back and that's it which obviously stops it from reaching the A area. It has a great ability with a decent movepool. If it didn't have sludge wave in its arsenal as well aromatisse would be a fantastic defensive check to it but a surprise sludge wave can catch that off guard. So due to Clawitzer's good wallbreaking capabilities I believe it is deserving of a B+ ranking.

I think Clawitzer's biggest issue as a wallbreaker is that its neutral power is actually kind of comparatively lacking. Most wallbreakers like Emboar, Exploud, Tyrantrum, Druddigon, most Fighting-types.... all of them have crazy powerful STABs easily clocking in at like 120 BP at least. Clawitzer only really has 80 BP STAB, albeit three of them due to Mega Launcher, but the most successful wallbreakers in the tier simply break stuff with their super strong main attacks and let their coverage augment it, whereas Clawitzer relies on striking foes with the appropriate 80 BP STAB, which can require a bit of prediction at times as a misprediction yields less payoff than the other wallbreakers. For a slow wallbreaker (slower than other wallbreakers even) that offers little to no defensive synergy, this is not particularly efficient, and Clawitzer becomes more comparable to something like Eelektross, an attacker that is known for mostly relying on its coverage rather than raw power to dish out damage, and at least Eelektross has a helpful Flying resistance and Ground immunity.

 

[atomicllamas]

Added Venomoth to new Pokemon rank, please wait a bit before making nominations for it.

 

[Ping_Pong_Along]

Clawitzer for B+
I honestly don't see why this thing isn't B+ it has the coverage to hit the walls that will often try to be in its way and just utterly destroy them with its powerful special attacks. It has its speed holding it back and that's it which obviously stops it from reaching the A area. It has a great ability with a decent movepool. If it didn't have sludge wave in its arsenal as well aromatisse would be a fantastic defensive check to it but a surprise sludge wave can catch that off guard. So due to Clawitzer's good wallbreaking capabilities I believe it is deserving of a B+ ranking.

The big problem I see with Clawitzer is it doesn't break the extremely common mixed wall Alomomola, which can WishStall for Life Orb damage and Toxic. Because of Regenerator, it's not even really wearing down Alomomola.

252+ SpA Life Orb Mega Launcher Clawitzer Dark Pulse vs. 136 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 201-238 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

This Clawitzer check doesn't even need to resort to the fringe checks that Exploud does like Cradily or Registeel. Also unlike Exploud, it's easy to wear Clawitzer down thanks to LO damage.

Even switching Clawitzer out isn't necessarily great because it gives Mola an opportunity to Toxic, Scald, or Wish on the switch.

So yeah, I think Clawitzer is fine at B.

 

[-kal-]

Im on mobile atm so im just gonna make one nomination that i had in mind. Maybe i'll post my thoughts on the current nominated pokemon when i'm not so busy.

-> Up to C Rank
I kinda quite like Poliwrath atm. Being able to check many physical threats in the tier such as Sneasel, Non Freeze-Dry Mega Glalie, Mega Steelix, Durant, Tyrantrum, and Emboar (the latter two when locked into Head Smash and Flare Blitz respectively) is really nice. It also has a decent speed tier, being able to outspeed the likes of Jolly Scrafty, Adamant Emboar and so on. Its also an okay answer to Scrafty as it can take any hit from it because of its great natural bulk. Offensive variants can run Vacuum Wave which is a great move for picking off weakened pokemon such as Mega Glalie and Tyrantrum. I prefer the offensive set but I guess the defensive set is also pretty cool, turning pokemon that Poliwrath checks into pokemon that it counters. The prevalence of Jellicent, Sigilyph, Virizion, and Meloetta kinda sucks for this, but overall I think Poliwrath is a really decent mon in this current meta and warrants a rise to C rank.

 

[Choice Banned]

B --> B+
I've had a mostly positive experience when using this mon. Checks psychics (which got better after the Reuni ban), can spread status with Thunder Wave or Will-O-Wisp, and has Prankster Dbond or Taunt if you're into that. Knock Off and Sucker Punch is nice, letting it check certain things it couldn't otherwise. Dark types being common in the current meta sucks for it, but at least it takes less damage from Knock Off.

A --> A+
Really good atm, Scarf set is great. It can check Sneasel, non-scarf Durant, Mega Glalie, Virizion, Venomoth provided it doesn't have too many QD boosts, and more if running scarf, although Jellicent and other Water types getting better currently is not good (well you can run Wild Charge but you have to be right with predictions, or Sucker Punch but I don't really like being locked into Sucker Punch), as well as other things that have always hindered Emboar, such as wearing itself down very fast. Sort of comparable to Tyrantrum as a wallbreaker (a bit worse though, less bulk, and its main "click x and do massive damage" move has recoil, which is only made worse by Reckless making it take more damage). Good mon.

 

[Cheryl.]

I would like to see Venomoth ranked at A or A-. Venomoth is a new addition to the tier, and a good one at that. It has Quiver Dance and Tinted Lens, making some would be checks and counters cower in fear of Venomoth's Bug or Poison STAB. Venomoth can also use coverage moves like Giga Drain and Psychic to help give it an easier time against some pokemon like Emboar and Rhyperior. It also has a cool typing that helps it absorb T-Spikes and have 4x resistances to Grass and Fighting type moves, so it at least adds some sort of defensive utility to the team. But Venomoth has some problems. It has a low defense stat, so it has problems taking even resisted physical attacks at times. It also has a mediocre speed stat unboosted, and it is outsped by most Scarfers even at +1. It also has a weakness to SR, crippling it's longevitity, especially if it carries Substitute. But Venomoth still has a lot of good points, with it's unique Quiver-Lens combination and good typing, and thus I think it should be ranked at A or A-.

Houndoom for A+
Houndoom is fucking amazing in the meta. Fire is an amazing type right now, as it hits the common Ice and Grass types hard. It also has Dark type for coverage, and the Fire/Dark combination is very nice. It can Pursuit trap Psychics, and has a boosting move in Nasty Plot to raise it's already high special attack even higher, to perform a sweep. But Houndoom has some faults. It's pathethic base 50 defense makes it vulnerable to physical attacks, even resisted ones. It also has weaknesses to common types like Ground or Rock. It's base 95 speed, while decent, isn't enough to outspeed the base 100 speed tier without a Flame Charge or Choice Scarf boost. It has Sucker Punch to somewhat remedy this, though. Overall, Houndoom is a very big threat right now and imo should rise even with all it's faults.

I also agree with Emboar to A+, it's still a great wallbreaker or potential late game sweeper even with it's low bulk and speed.

 

[MrAldo]

Yes, after seeing venomoth in action, I do agree it is a A- rank threat at least. Thanks to tinted lens it is a lot of harder to deal with in practice that it is on paper getting past many of its resists and it provides valuable utility on offensive builds thanks to its ability to absorb toxic spikes which can be a nuisance, sleep powder which can provide setup opportunities for it and for its teammates and its typing resisting fighting, grass and fairy type moves being amazing for mons that pair well with it like scrafty and stuff. Solid A- mon at the very least, it is really difficulty to handle defensively with only its STABs which is pretty impressive.

Regarding the Uxie and Mesprit:

Uxie and Mesprit: I dont think either of them should drop tbh. They simply provide a lot of defensive and offensive support respectively with their respective moves and they provide pretty solid fighting type checks. Memento and healing wish are amazing moves to have on offensive teams (provided by uxie and mesprit respectively) and they also have stealth rock so they provide efficient role compression. To be honest I see them both offering lot more than any of the B ranks and while dark types like sneasel are on the rise, they both still offer fantastic support on plenty of roles. They should stay in B+ imo. They are still pretty effective.

 

[phantom]

gonna do some small updates:

Venomoth add to A+ rank (could go lower, but this thing is surprisingly difficult to cover when building a team, much like a lot of the other A+)
Poliwrath up to C

I was also looking around the list and there were quite a few things I wanted to change, so I'll let you guys discuss and I'll make changes accordingly.

discussion points:

• Roselia up to C+ or stay in C?
• Fletchinder up to A or stay in A-?
• Escavalier up to A- or stay in B+?
• Jellicent down to A or stay in A+?
• Delphox up to A or stay in A-?
• Samurott up to B+ or stay in B?
• Amoonguss up to B+ or stay in B?
• Golbat up to B- or stay in C+?

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Fletchinder up to A or stay in A-: Definitly A, Fletchinder is far from flawed, and in a metagame where hazard removal has like, 1 very good user of it, and if he doesn't fit in your team, you're kind of screwed with a below average mon in utility, he may have to take on rocks, but still, the utility Fletchinder provides himself is fantastic. Currently, not a lot of pokemons in offense aside from like Tyrantrum & Rhyperior ( who are hindered by the burn ) can reliably prevent Fletchinder from sweeping your team. Aside from being one of the best setup sweeper, he's also one of the few pokemons preventing your team from getting swept by Venomoth, another very powerful setup sweeper.

 

[Ping_Pong_Along]

C --> C+
I support Roselia moving up to C+. What sets Roselia apart from other spikers is its bulk and its access to reliable recovery. Its ability to switch into most every Grass and Water type in the tier or status absorb gives it great opportunities to stack hazards. It also does well against other common leads like Seismitoad and Rhyperior. I feel C+ is appropriate since its still pretty niche, but does its job really well.

B+ --> A-
With Venomoth around now, Escavalier finally has a niche again. Immunity to Sleep Powder and a resist to Bug Buzz (admittedly mitigated by Tinted Lens) and quadruple resist to Giga Drain (and immunity to Sludge Bomb) make Escavalier a great answer to Venomoth. The meta is still adjusting to Venomoth though. HP Fire with Life Orb lets Venomoth 2HKO Assault Vest Escavalier. Escavalier lacks reliable recovery and is very slow, but few things want to switch into it. I think A- is appropriate for now, but it might be too early to tell.

I also have a nomination.

C+ --> B-
Cofagrigus is a pretty solid switch to a lot of physical attackers in the tier. It has an amazing defense stat and a great ability that cripples Durant, Hitmonlee, Emboar, and Mega Glalie. It can also be used to cut down severely on Tyrantrum's longevity as it starts taking recoil from Head Smash. Will-o-Wisp can cripple these threats even more and Toxic Spikes wear down threats throughout the match. With its lower HP stat, it makes Pain Split a bit more consistent and Wish support that much better. Between WoW, Mummy, and Toxic Spikes support, I think Cofagrigus deserves to move up. I haven't played around too much with the trick room set, but it appears rather powerful.

 

[Natural Talent]

---> S
What does anyone have for a well played durant? I was going through and making a check Compendium and noticed that Durant has no switch-ins to its moves considering it has amazingly strong stab and great coverage.

This thing is just as or even way more threatening than Scrafty.

Choice Scarf Durant provides a great late game cleaner and revenge killer. Although you can say that all its moves having 80% or less is a set back, but it's like carrying 4 Stone Edges with even stronger base power because of hustle boost and super effective since it hits nearly everything in the tier for super effective with its coverages.

252 Atk Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Emboar: 123-145 (34 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
mfw a Emboar is taking almost 40 for a resisted hit.
And this is probably the closest thing to a "Durant Check"

Durant is super scary and forces so many switch outs. Hone claws is great at taking advantage of switches.

252 Atk Virizion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 138-163 (53.6 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

easily sets up on this if its not scared out already o_o

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 296-348 (91.3 - 107.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It's strength is one thing, but it also has the speed to back it up as being a great mon.

It's a threat to all playstyles. It manhandles balance with 1 free turn to Hone Claws. Same goes with stall since you get 1 hone claws one he obligatory switch to Alomomola. Against Offense it doesn't even need free turns since it destroys everything it out speeds on offense.

Don't think of this as bringing Durant on ladder but instead using it in tournament play where one great set or one coverage move in use of a counter team or bringing it for a mon the opponent always uses can score you an easy win.
Don't take it into the sense of hard counter teaming but the point in all you need is a certain Durant set to win


One thing that puts Durant ahead of Scrafty is that it has no counters unlike Scrafty, where Scrafty has bulky fairies and even fletch.

 

[tehy]

as a stall player, i can attest to durant's ridiculousness versus defensive teams. i'm now using a physically defensive jellicent out of desperation and even that can lose to Crunch / Thunder Fang. even with the crappy SpD it sets up on a fair few defensive mons, like aroma, tic, and cradily.

 

[-kal-]

->Up to A Rank
Fletchinder is a really great revenge killer atm, being able to take on the likes of Non Stone Edge Virizion, Tangrowth, and Scrafty. This is especially true with the recent arrival of Venomoth. It also has decent setup opportunities such as on Tangrowth, defensive Flygon lacking Dragon Tail, Aromatisse, and AV Escavalier. At +2, not many pokemon on offense has switch-ins for an Acrobatics. Even Fletchinder's usual checks of Tyrantrum, Rhyperior, and Mega Steelix do not always come out on top against it because Fletchinder will usually burn them before they can attack (cept scarf Tyrantrum) or on the switch. It does however require some support such as the removal of bulky Water- and Rock-types and Stealth Rock to really function well and the fact that it is very frail. But Fletchinder tends to have a better matchup against offensively-inclined teams where it can really put in a lot of work for the team. Overall, even with those flaws, the positives of Fletchinder greatly outweighs the negatives and deserves a rise imo.

->Up to A- Rank
Escavalier has kinda improved with Venomoth being around. Being able to take on Mega Glalie, Venomoth, Meloetta, and Tangrowth, Escavalier is definitely an A- Rank mon in my eyes. Having an immunity to Sleep Powder is also really helpful, ensuring that it can take on Venomoth one-on-one. Its also a pretty cool win condition against Stall teams with the SD set, which is a nightmare for them to face unless there is Quagsire on the team. It is really slow though and gets worn down easily. However, even with those flaws, I feel it should probably deserve a raise to A- Rank.

->Down to A Rank
Recently, Jellicent has really fallen out of favor in this meta. With Offensive teams having a slight edge over other playstyles atm, Jellicent does not really like that too much as it tends to prefer a matchup against defensive teams as it is heavily pressured when going up against these team archetypes. Many of times, many physical attackers boast the ability to 2HKO defensive Jellicent with ease with some prior damage which in all honesty, isn't that hard to do. Therefore, Jellicent is not really a reliable switch-in to things like Tyrantrum and Emboar as they can 2HKO it with prior damage. Being a hard stop to Mega Glalie and Mega Steelix is still great but the recent popularity of other powerful threats such as Scrafty, Sneasel, Virizion, Tangrowth, and Venomoth (to a lesser extent) does not help it at all as they all can potentially take on Jellicent one-on-one. Pokemon that it usually checks such as Emboar and Durant will most of the time carry coverage moves such as Wild Charge and Crunch to heavily damage it. Thus, I feel that many teams are prepared for Jellicent unless its like Stall to a lesser extent and that it does not really wall so much of the tier as it used to.

->Stay in B Rank
Amoonguss has not improved too much I feel at this moment. It kinda needs to run Clear Smog I feel now if it does not want to outright lose to Dragon Dance Scrafty or Sub+QD Venomoth, two very popular threats. Even then, it does not even take them reliably as they can wear it down easily. Furthermore, the recent increase in usage of Ice- and Psychic-types such as Sneasel, Mega Glalie, Sigilyph, and Meloetta also annoys this a lot. Being a Fighting and Fairy counter is nice and all, but I think it should stay where it is as nothing has really improved for Amoonguss with the metagame shifts.

->Up to B- Rank
The meta has somewhat improved for Golbat especially with Venomoth. It is able to take on a couple of threatening Pokemon in this current meta such as Scrafty, Tangrowth, Venomoth, and Flygon (albeit slightly shaky on gon). This quality is what I feel puts Golbat over the opposing C+ Rank Pokemon. Knock Off and Psychics are very annoying for this but I think that Golbat warrants a raise to B-.

 

[Senpai D.M]

I somewhat like where the meta is headed again with bulkier mons Lets suspect Scrafty y/y

To B+ Joking aside Shroom can hang with the best mons and be a pain to play against. Every time you see it in team preview you have to think about sleep fodder / status already crippling teams from the start. What it does , it does well. Spread status, take hits and force switches on fairies with a tier full of fighting types it seems like every other team has a fairy. thats where this darkhorse comes in and plays an important role. Also as I said it also is a nice blanket for grass spam and fighting types running rampant. All in all I see the quite opposite its only gaining the recognition it deserves.

 

[Kingler]

i mean virizion isn't exactly the strongest mon ever so i dont get why you're making that comparison. durant IS frail af and most attacks from revenge killers can easily KO it (example: 252 SpA Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 234-276 (91 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO). Mega steelix is like everywhere and that can pivot in on durant pretty convincingly and destroy it. Hell, all the S and A+ ranks can do more than 50% to it (and a sizable chunk can KO outright after a little prior damage). We still have alom for stuff like semistall which can pivot around pretty much every durant set ever. And qwilfish is a great check to w/e durant set; while Thunder Fang sucks for it idk if anyone even runs that anymore lol. It's actually pretty hard to see what this thing switches on without getting 2HKOed aside from like Aromatisse. Also, I think it was nommed to A+ earlier and rejected? W/e, defos against durant to S.

Also, I was wondering why Qwilfish was A-. Spikes are really good to have and wear down a lot of common shit, and while we may have Flygon, generally offensive pressure does keep those hazards up and fuck up stuff like Mega steelix switching in on it. It's pretty great and although A- seems pretty fitting as its offensive presence is basically 0, it can do some shit like spread scald burns or ice beam for flygon. Good mon; although it's a bit one-dimensional it's pertty great at what it does. O and it destroys stuff like gurdurr which some ppl really seem to like ;o

edit- forgot to put what i wanted qwilly to be lmao, i propose fr it to be moved to A

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

On Durant to S it's honestly far from S rank as it has so many flaws that prevent it from going up. As noted durant can't switch in on anything like even aromatisse comes close to 2hkoing it (0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 90-107 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock). Secondly one of durant's other problems is hustle which does give it a lot of power it has a nasty side effect of making every attack durant runs as accurate as stone edge. On the topic of hustle while it does make it hit hard it's not hitting as hard as other wallbreakers like LO emboar or CB tyrantrum as they have stab over 120 base power AND a far better offensive typing. So while I do think durant is a threat in this meta it's fine in A rank for the reasons listed imo. Also here's a nomination:

for B+:

Hitmontop is actually pretty damn good right now being a really good glue mon for multiple teams being a really good check to stuff like tyrantrum(only cb outrage is breaking it), glalie(double edge only 3hko's it while glalie obviously is ohko'd back.) Scrafty(neutral high jump kick from DD only 3hkos it while close combat + mach punch guarantees it's dead), Physical flygon, and sneasel. It also has a good matchup vs. most sr setters and while it does lose to qwilfish and garbodor it has 5 teammates in the back to deal with these. While the rise of psychics like delphox and sigilyph do hurt it and spinblockers are annoying(toxic is mandatory on this) the utility it provides by checking many top threats, and hazard removal make me nominate hitmontop to B+