Cobalion down to A+ I think. It's hard walled by Jellicent (only AV Coba gets to keep its Sub against 0 SpA Jelli) and honestly its weak to Fighting, Fire and Ground. While it is fast it hasn't got the best SpDef and what it cant OHKO can cripple it dies to. Delphox wins 1vs1 too, as it resists both STABS and unboosted FB is enough to OHKO.
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Resource RU Viability Ranking Thread: Abomasnow and Slowking Discussion
- Thread starter Molk
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Sets up on half the meta, sweeps half the meta, best overall utility mon, Stone Edge pops Delphox, Jellicent doesn't appreciate +2 Stone Edges either, and there are teammates. To say Cobalion isn't top tier is kinda weird, as its one of the best in RU at this moment and deserves to be S Rank.
I stopped reading after this...
You can also be like me and live in the past using CM HP Ghost Cobalion ^_^
But really, Cobalion shouldn't even be considered to get move down to A+. This thing is probably the best Pokemon in RU right now. Also if we were to even consider that, the Pokemon that are A+ aren't even on Cobalion's level of play. Cobalion is perfectly fine in S Rank. Or we can make a rank higher than that and call it God Rank and put it in there. y/n
EDIT: zdrup15 bruh LOL
Swap Gallade & Medicham's rank
It's pretty safe to say that the only niche Medicham has & will ever have are the superior powe & Baton Pass, the latter being reserved for pretty gimmicky sets at best, that will often be done better by Gallade. But you see, unless it's Scarf, the power change isn't as big as you'd except, as both will wallbreak anything on their ways with a Choice Band, but they'll most likely be stopped by Defensive Spiritomb ( & Reuniclus for Medicham, no knock off sadly )
So yes, Medicham is probably a better scarf than Gallade for Offensive teams. Then again, Scarf Gallade still has a bit going for it such as Knock Off and his special bulk. And that's where's the problem: While Gallade has a niche on the only set Medicham may perform better than Gallade, Medicham shouldn't be used over Gallade for any other set. ( Aside from Band )
It leads to one main thing: Medicham is quite predictable compared to Gallade. If your opponent has a Medicham, almost everytime, it's going to be choiced, unlike Gallade who can perform: Sub 3 Attacks, Choiced, Swords Dance, Sub Bulk Up & even some other sets.
Overall, you'd better use Gallade in a lot more situations than Medicham, so it would logical to see Medicham one rank under Gallade.
It's pretty safe to say that the only niche Medicham has & will ever have are the superior powe & Baton Pass, the latter being reserved for pretty gimmicky sets at best, that will often be done better by Gallade. But you see, unless it's Scarf, the power change isn't as big as you'd except, as both will wallbreak anything on their ways with a Choice Band, but they'll most likely be stopped by Defensive Spiritomb ( & Reuniclus for Medicham, no knock off sadly )
So yes, Medicham is probably a better scarf than Gallade for Offensive teams. Then again, Scarf Gallade still has a bit going for it such as Knock Off and his special bulk. And that's where's the problem: While Gallade has a niche on the only set Medicham may perform better than Gallade, Medicham shouldn't be used over Gallade for any other set. ( Aside from Band )
It leads to one main thing: Medicham is quite predictable compared to Gallade. If your opponent has a Medicham, almost everytime, it's going to be choiced, unlike Gallade who can perform: Sub 3 Attacks, Choiced, Swords Dance, Sub Bulk Up & even some other sets.
Overall, you'd better use Gallade in a lot more situations than Medicham, so it would logical to see Medicham one rank under Gallade.
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Uxie for B+
Useful and reliable Cobalion and other Fighting-types check that also spreads Twave and sets Stealth Rock reliably. One time sponge to a lot of stuff that doesn't even give much momentum to the opponent thanks to twave and/or u-turn. Also beats all Scrafty variants 1v1 with Dazzling gleam and defensive ish spread.
Useful and reliable Cobalion and other Fighting-types check that also spreads Twave and sets Stealth Rock reliably. One time sponge to a lot of stuff that doesn't even give much momentum to the opponent thanks to twave and/or u-turn. Also beats all Scrafty variants 1v1 with Dazzling gleam and defensive ish spread.
I think they should be the same rank honestly. Gallade is a very diverse Pokemon, running SD, Bulk Up, SpDef etc. All this versatility makes Gallade a great mon, but the thing about Medicham is sheer wallbreaking power. Between Dual Priority, LO Elemental, and Choice, when Medicham gets in it will hurt tf outta something. That sheer power is something we see in Hitmonlee which is why it's ranked so high (also the best spinner I believe) and when you compare that to Gallade, it's easy to see that they're both good mons that deserve B+ Rank.
I guess that works too, i've noticed i'm slightly underrating Medicham, and it's true that its power is quite insane.
Even so, i still think Gallade is the better mon than Medicham, so i'd accept the two being ranked in the same spot for now.
We'll see how the metagame evolves, it's still a bit early to have a proper judgement on Gallade or even Medicham.
Also Bronzing can run SpDef sets or physical sets to take on Noivern or Cobalion (depending on team needs). Pre-Kingra ban, I used it as a bulky rain setter to some success. I support 'Zong being in A-To A- Bronzong is the best rocker out of the steel type rockers that can take at least a hit and ensure rocks get up. It also doesnt lose to dugtrio or get trapped which is nice. It can pivot into Noivern a few times as well to scare it out if choiced into a move.
For some reason I hadn't realized Zong wasn't in any of the A ranks lol
Supporting Senpai D.M in a Bronzong raise. PhysDef can take a Banded Knock Off from Scrafty, for goodness' sake. Bronzong is very good in this meta. Bronzong to A-!
Supporting Senpai D.M in a Bronzong raise. PhysDef can take a Banded Knock Off from Scrafty, for goodness' sake. Bronzong is very good in this meta. Bronzong to A-!
Considering that Scrafty has only base 90 attack, Bronzong being able to tank that hit is not that inconceivable, especially since something like Flygon can't even OHKO Bronzong consistently either (if Bronzong is running Heatproof). While I understand what you are stating, I do not think your argument would be the best reason to bring it up.
Guess I'll make a nom.
Hitmonlee to A+ This thing is a monster. Not only is it the best spinner for offense, but it hits like a shit ton of bricks. Reckless HJK can OHKO Jellicent that's how much this nigga does not care (I'm joking guys pls) it's an amazing wallbreaker, spinner, and scarf cleans up teams better than a LOT of Pokemon. Basically if you can't OHKO it it sure as hell will 2HKO or OHKO you.
Hitmonlee to A+ This thing is a monster. Not only is it the best spinner for offense, but it hits like a shit ton of bricks. Reckless HJK can OHKO Jellicent that's how much this nigga does not care (I'm joking guys pls) it's an amazing wallbreaker, spinner, and scarf cleans up teams better than a LOT of Pokemon. Basically if you can't OHKO it it sure as hell will 2HKO or OHKO you.
I feel as though mola should be just A rank. It's still very good, but scrafty, reun and sd coba set-up all over it and these are arguably the top attacking mons rn, apart from noivern which mola deals with very well. It's still really solid, but I don't feel the meta shift towards set-up sweepers helped it at all. I also still feel as though houndoom could be A, it's a great reuniclus check and priority sucker punch is really nice - it also breaks common cores like no other poke with it's np set. I realize doomer isn't as good as before because scrafty and flygon do a number on it, but I feel as though it's better than low A.
I also disagree with moving lee up, gets owned by noivern and fairies are v popular atm, faster metagame also doesn't really help it because it's not that fast and frail on the physical side. Scarf is a good set though, outside of locked in rapid spin, seeing as scarf hjk wrecks scrafty and coba as well as a bunch of other things on offense.
I also disagree with moving lee up, gets owned by noivern and fairies are v popular atm, faster metagame also doesn't really help it because it's not that fast and frail on the physical side. Scarf is a good set though, outside of locked in rapid spin, seeing as scarf hjk wrecks scrafty and coba as well as a bunch of other things on offense.
Hitmonlee: I've had the chance to use Hitmonlee on a couple of different teams in the current meta, and it's definitely a pretty significant threat. That being said though, I really do not agree with using Rapid Spin on it unless you're using Lee on Spike stacking teams that need hazard control. Why? Because it has fucking Double-Edge. Double-Edge literally cuts the amount of reliable Lee checks in half (as if there were a ton to start with) Aromatisse? Gone if it switches into HJK once. Amoonguss? Same fate. Togetic? Ok, you actually need to catch that on the switch with Knock Off (another spammable move mind you) Same story with Golbat. I mean, throw Hitmonlee on an offensive team and if you need hazard control on it, just fucking use Flygon. Double-Edge is amazing on Lee right now. The Scarf set for Hitmonlee is also very underrated imo. It outspeeds a lot of common Scarfers (Rotom-C, Medicham, and Tyrantrum to name a few) while also beating +1 Scrafty and still having a decent amount of power. And of course, Double-Edge is good on this too due to strong neutral coverage (who the fuck is switching in a Rock or Steel on Lee at first?) Never, ever, ever use Rapid Spin on Scarf Lee. It's complete ass imo. I'd argue to say that Double-Edge is one of the safest moves to use on Lee at first since opponents can't Protect a HJK miss or switch in a Ghost to immediately strip Lee of 50% HP. That said, Lee does face a lot of competition as a Fighting-type and Double-Edge is, well, a double-edged sword in that Lee will die very quickly if it has to use the move more than once. While it faces competition as a wallbreaker and a cleaner, it is able to do both effectively. Add on the fact that it's the best offensive spinner and it's the only common offensive Fighting-type with useful priority to speak of (Shadow Sneak is ass on Gallade and Medicham should be running Scarf most of the time) and I'd say Hitmonlee is well worth A+ rank.
Jaiho
bandy legged troll
wat
HypnoEmpire
Yokatta...
Spin is ass on Scarf Lee. And while I feel it's a lesser option on LO Lee due to Double-Edge, it is the best option for hazard control on spike stacking teams, which I alluded to in my post. Apologies if I confused you. Thought I had clarified stuff lol
Some thoughts:
Hitmonlee to A+: With the introduction of a pretty nifty hazard remover in the form of flygon, hitmonlee isnt completely forced to run rapid spin on offensive teams anymore and can proceed to become a full-time wallbreaker. Double-edge on hitmonlee is pretty scary. It is an efficient neutral coverage that can be used to blow through some of his checks and that can be pretty spammable. Of course it can spin if needed due to being the best offensive spinner in the tier. The only drawback is that it can die pretty quickly but generally when it does, it already did his job. A+
Pelipper to move up, either to B- or C+ at least: Why is this so low or in fact... why is this below golbat?! Pelipper doesnt depend on its item to have its bulk, have access to reliable recovery, being able to check cobalion AKA the best mon in the tier and being a defogger that can threaten the likes of rhyperior with scald. It can also afford to run U-turn generally. Pelipper is a way better fighting type check considering everything else it has to offer compared to golbat. Golbat is just straight bad compared to this.
Medicham and gallade should be on the same rank: While gallade has some advantages over medicham, these 2 fulfill different roles than the other simply cannot. Gallade is a more profficient setup sweeper with swords dancethat can threaten ghosts with knock off and a better band user but medicham is a better momentum grabber having baton pass to stay away from its checks and a better cleaner. In fact, you can use both on the same team pretty well since they are both effective on its roles. Gallade having knock off isnt an enough reason to call it better than medicham imo. B+ for both seems reasonable.
Uxie to B+: I can get behind this cause it is one of the best fighting type check the tier has atm. Pretty similar to what cresselia was besides the reliable recovery it can spread t-wave for efficient team support and isnt quite the sitting duck thanks to its access to u-turn. Having access to stealth rock and other neat support options like yawn is another plus. A pretty cool pseudo-glue at the moment since it can check a lot of stuff.
Something controversial
Accelgor to A-: Accelgor has always been an efficient spiker but Im not asking for a raise for the merits of the lead set but instead the merits behind the life orb offensive set. Maybe Im overhyping this a bit (or a lot) but accelgor have the blistering speed for being able to become a cleaner without the need of a choice scarf which is absolutely huge, getting the jump on +1 tyrantrum, jolteon and 80 speed scarfers with a positive nature. It also has an impressive movepool that can be tailored for whatever the team needs to cover. Energy ball, focus blast, giga drain, sludge bomb, hidden power bug buzz is impressive coverage and with a life orb it can hit pretty hard. Doublade leaving with was pretty much a hard stop was a huge boom for it as well.
Cheers!
Hitmonlee to A+: With the introduction of a pretty nifty hazard remover in the form of flygon, hitmonlee isnt completely forced to run rapid spin on offensive teams anymore and can proceed to become a full-time wallbreaker. Double-edge on hitmonlee is pretty scary. It is an efficient neutral coverage that can be used to blow through some of his checks and that can be pretty spammable. Of course it can spin if needed due to being the best offensive spinner in the tier. The only drawback is that it can die pretty quickly but generally when it does, it already did his job. A+
Pelipper to move up, either to B- or C+ at least: Why is this so low or in fact... why is this below golbat?! Pelipper doesnt depend on its item to have its bulk, have access to reliable recovery, being able to check cobalion AKA the best mon in the tier and being a defogger that can threaten the likes of rhyperior with scald. It can also afford to run U-turn generally. Pelipper is a way better fighting type check considering everything else it has to offer compared to golbat. Golbat is just straight bad compared to this.
Medicham and gallade should be on the same rank: While gallade has some advantages over medicham, these 2 fulfill different roles than the other simply cannot. Gallade is a more profficient setup sweeper with swords dancethat can threaten ghosts with knock off and a better band user but medicham is a better momentum grabber having baton pass to stay away from its checks and a better cleaner. In fact, you can use both on the same team pretty well since they are both effective on its roles. Gallade having knock off isnt an enough reason to call it better than medicham imo. B+ for both seems reasonable.
Uxie to B+: I can get behind this cause it is one of the best fighting type check the tier has atm. Pretty similar to what cresselia was besides the reliable recovery it can spread t-wave for efficient team support and isnt quite the sitting duck thanks to its access to u-turn. Having access to stealth rock and other neat support options like yawn is another plus. A pretty cool pseudo-glue at the moment since it can check a lot of stuff.
Something controversial
Accelgor to A-: Accelgor has always been an efficient spiker but Im not asking for a raise for the merits of the lead set but instead the merits behind the life orb offensive set. Maybe Im overhyping this a bit (or a lot) but accelgor have the blistering speed for being able to become a cleaner without the need of a choice scarf which is absolutely huge, getting the jump on +1 tyrantrum, jolteon and 80 speed scarfers with a positive nature. It also has an impressive movepool that can be tailored for whatever the team needs to cover. Energy ball, focus blast, giga drain, sludge bomb, hidden power bug buzz is impressive coverage and with a life orb it can hit pretty hard. Doublade leaving with was pretty much a hard stop was a huge boom for it as well.
Cheers!
Accelgor to A-
Accelgor's LO set is actually pretty damn stellar in this metagame. It bops a lot of the tiers top dogs and can be customizable to suit your teams needs as a Special Attacker. Also pairs well with some Volt Turners like Coba and Jolteon. Alongside that, you have a pokemon that can be a reliable hazard user that is almost guaranteed to setup 1 layer or hazards.
Flygon to A
It just doesn't have the stats to reach to it's ultimate potential. It has horrible matchups against a lot of the tier's most popular right now. Also compared to everyone else in the rank, Flygon doesn't have the dominant strength of controlling the meta as much as Mola, Durant, M-Glalie, or Scrafty does right now. Sorry danceless dragon. :c
Accelgor's LO set is actually pretty damn stellar in this metagame. It bops a lot of the tiers top dogs and can be customizable to suit your teams needs as a Special Attacker. Also pairs well with some Volt Turners like Coba and Jolteon. Alongside that, you have a pokemon that can be a reliable hazard user that is almost guaranteed to setup 1 layer or hazards.
Flygon to A
It just doesn't have the stats to reach to it's ultimate potential. It has horrible matchups against a lot of the tier's most popular right now. Also compared to everyone else in the rank, Flygon doesn't have the dominant strength of controlling the meta as much as Mola, Durant, M-Glalie, or Scrafty does right now. Sorry danceless dragon. :c
Escavalier B+ -> A-
Probably one of the best catch-all checks in the tier while still packing a huge punch in the process. I used an Occa Berry set like in BW2 and it works wonders in checking all of the Dragons at least once, and if they're lacking any of the Dragons it becomes probably the best Grass-type switch-in in the tier thanks to its immunity to Sleep Powder. On top of checking the Dragons and Grasses, it's one of the best offensive answers to Reuniclus and Meloetta in the tier thanks to the threat of Megahorn and Pursuit to catch them as they switch, as well as to Glalie and Aromatisse. Finally, Drill Run prevents Cobalion from completely shitting on it and can make switching in Fire-types tough.
It doesn't stack up to Steelix or Durant in the current meta, but it's definitely a step above a few of the things currently in B+.
Rotom-C B+ -> A-
Also going to argue for Rotom-C to move up a peg as I continue to find it to be one of the most splashable Scarfers in the tier thanks to its high offensive presence with Leaf Storm and ability to keep momentum with Volt Switch. It capitalizes on some of the most prominent defensive mons currently in the tier, namely Alomomola, Seismitoad, Togetic, and Jellicent, as well as a few of the offensive mons like Jolteon, Cobalion, and Steelix. It's such a good glue mon that provides both good defensive synergy, utility, and high offensive presence. Not to mention that Specs Rotom-C has almost zero viable completely safe switch-ins aside from SpD Aromatisse, Meloetta, and Virizion, and it can cripple at least Aroma and Viri with Trick.
The only major downside to Rotom-C right now is the prominence of Fire-types and Ground-types, which makes predicting correctly very difficult at times.
Probably one of the best catch-all checks in the tier while still packing a huge punch in the process. I used an Occa Berry set like in BW2 and it works wonders in checking all of the Dragons at least once, and if they're lacking any of the Dragons it becomes probably the best Grass-type switch-in in the tier thanks to its immunity to Sleep Powder. On top of checking the Dragons and Grasses, it's one of the best offensive answers to Reuniclus and Meloetta in the tier thanks to the threat of Megahorn and Pursuit to catch them as they switch, as well as to Glalie and Aromatisse. Finally, Drill Run prevents Cobalion from completely shitting on it and can make switching in Fire-types tough.
It doesn't stack up to Steelix or Durant in the current meta, but it's definitely a step above a few of the things currently in B+.
Rotom-C B+ -> A-
Also going to argue for Rotom-C to move up a peg as I continue to find it to be one of the most splashable Scarfers in the tier thanks to its high offensive presence with Leaf Storm and ability to keep momentum with Volt Switch. It capitalizes on some of the most prominent defensive mons currently in the tier, namely Alomomola, Seismitoad, Togetic, and Jellicent, as well as a few of the offensive mons like Jolteon, Cobalion, and Steelix. It's such a good glue mon that provides both good defensive synergy, utility, and high offensive presence. Not to mention that Specs Rotom-C has almost zero viable completely safe switch-ins aside from SpD Aromatisse, Meloetta, and Virizion, and it can cripple at least Aroma and Viri with Trick.
The only major downside to Rotom-C right now is the prominence of Fire-types and Ground-types, which makes predicting correctly very difficult at times.
tehy
Banned deucer.
All right, i guess i'll give my thoughts on noms since i haven't had any of my own in a while
Edit: I don't know if people dislike reading my messy posts? let me know if you do; for now, i think i'll just clean them up a bit
Hitmonlee to A+
I do feel it's worth noting that Spiritomb is a favorite of mine in this meta, being the best stop to Reuniclus on stall, being a great stop to Medicham and Gallade, and infiltrator WoWing pesky SubSD Cobalion. This is particularly relevant, as he is also a hard stop to double-edge lee. Still, Lee is a fearsome fucking wallbreaker, so i could see this happening; hell, Doublade leaving the tier alone might be grounds for a rise.
Pelipper to move up, either to B- or C+ at least
Seconded, being able to defeat SD Cobalion and heal reliably is already enough to claim a niche (I haven't seen Stone Edge on an SD Cobalion yet; also, I don't think it's any good, and no one else seems to either). When you combine that with the ability to Defog and Scald, Pelipper begins looking pretty good. In the last slot, you've got options like Air Slash / Hurricane (general STAB, nails Fighting-types, specifically letting you check Scrafty and Virizion), as well as U-turn to gain momentum instead of losing it, and even Toxic for the nice status inducement combo of Toxic + non-weak Scald.
Medicham and gallade should be on the same rank
To be honest, I do feel like Medicham is better ; Gallade isn't necessarily sweeping any team with a fast physical threat, and defensive teams can stop it ok, so i'd rather unleash Choice Band HJK. In this regard, I also feel like Medicham's Choice Band set is better, since it's just so much stronger (about 30% stronger, plus HJK boasts an extra 10 base power). Additionally, Bulk Up + Baton Pass Medicham is quite good and definitely underrated. However, no one uses Gallade on ladder, so I just don't know how to rate it (Keep in mind that I watch ladder battles too, so even as a Spiritomb user I would have some experience with how it functions against other teams. But, I just haven't seen much Gallade.) Really, I'm just theorymonning, and Gallade's versatility is one of its best traits (and unfortunately, is also very difficult to quantify). I'd say Medicham is better, but I don't feel strongly about it.
Uxie to B+
To start with; the core of my experience is around Heal Bell Uxie, which is such a damn annoyance. Usually my opponent will have a team with some semi-dangerous Pokemon, and maybe 1 or 2 truly dangerous threats (dangerous to my team, I mean). As a result, I'll put effort into getting those Pokemon statused, for example letting my Alomomola take a Volt Switch for 65% from an Eelektross just so I can Toxic it before it leaves. When Uxie comes in and uses Heal Bell, those Pokemon are dangerous again, and everything I invested in statusing those Pokemon (i.e. all the damage I took, items I lost, hazards that were stacked on me) is simply wasted. As a result, I'd definitely give Uxie B+.
On a theory level, it's a replacement Cresselia with a lot of bulk and even more cool tools, such as Memento, Yawn and U-turn (together or separately), and of course Stealth Rock. It's also got dual screens and TrickScarf as two very cool options, as well as the always-helpful Stealth Rock. I've seen discussion of SubCM and I doubt it's very good, but you never know there either, I suppose.
Accelgor to A-:
I used to shit on offensive Accelgor a lot because it had 'no coverage'. But, to be honest, with a moveset of Bug Buzz / Sludge Bomb / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice, what isn't covered?
Actually, that's a larger list than I thought. Still though, it gets pretty o.k. neutral coverage and there isn't much that's both specially bulky and interested in taking its hits; there's also a lot that gets hit super effectively. Just speaking from a pure stall perspective, this mon can give me a lot of trouble...now imagine what it can do against offensive teams with that frightening base 145 Speed? What's that, Scarf Emboar? Your scarf entitles you to go first? 145 base Speed says otherwise. Though Accelgor is a bit too reliant on Focus Blast and it's wondrous 70% hit chance for my liking...
By the way, Offensive Accelgor used to roll with 3 attacks, and then either Encore or Spikes; I think that's no longer the best set.
Flygon to A
Flygon had such promise... it hasn't impressed me currently, and I haven't seen it a lot either. Overall, I don't want to choice myself on anything but U-turn, and spamming u-turn eventually gets you punished. I think there's a lot of talk around this 'mon, but what are the actual sets it should be using? I think when that starts getting finalized, it may deserve a rise.
Rotom-C B+ -> A-
Rotom-c is such a scary mon to switch into; between Volt Switch, Leaf Storm, and Trick, you either have an Amoonguss or can be seriously inconvenienced by one of its moves. Choice Specs is even harder to switch into, as is WoW Scarf. I recall using Scarf Rotom-C against a good player with a sample team i'd taken for a ride; due to the threat of Scarf Volt Switch on his noivern, he Switched right into seismitoad...Boom, the predict. is this just me boasting about my **epic predicts**? Well, not really, it's just difficult to switch into this dude on offense, you either take 20-30% damage and lose momentum on top of that or get KOed by Leaf Storm; quite the loaded 50 / 50. On the other hand, losing that 50 / 50 can hurt as well. Overall just a tough Pokemon to switch into with a lot of cool stuff up its sleeve (sets without a choice item can be doubly as scary).
Underrated aspect alert: Trick Choice is great for strongly checking Reuniclus (and any other random bulky booster i guess)
Edit: I don't know if people dislike reading my messy posts? let me know if you do; for now, i think i'll just clean them up a bit
Hitmonlee to A+
I do feel it's worth noting that Spiritomb is a favorite of mine in this meta, being the best stop to Reuniclus on stall, being a great stop to Medicham and Gallade, and infiltrator WoWing pesky SubSD Cobalion. This is particularly relevant, as he is also a hard stop to double-edge lee. Still, Lee is a fearsome fucking wallbreaker, so i could see this happening; hell, Doublade leaving the tier alone might be grounds for a rise.
Pelipper to move up, either to B- or C+ at least
Seconded, being able to defeat SD Cobalion and heal reliably is already enough to claim a niche (I haven't seen Stone Edge on an SD Cobalion yet; also, I don't think it's any good, and no one else seems to either). When you combine that with the ability to Defog and Scald, Pelipper begins looking pretty good. In the last slot, you've got options like Air Slash / Hurricane (general STAB, nails Fighting-types, specifically letting you check Scrafty and Virizion), as well as U-turn to gain momentum instead of losing it, and even Toxic for the nice status inducement combo of Toxic + non-weak Scald.
Medicham and gallade should be on the same rank
To be honest, I do feel like Medicham is better ; Gallade isn't necessarily sweeping any team with a fast physical threat, and defensive teams can stop it ok, so i'd rather unleash Choice Band HJK. In this regard, I also feel like Medicham's Choice Band set is better, since it's just so much stronger (about 30% stronger, plus HJK boasts an extra 10 base power). Additionally, Bulk Up + Baton Pass Medicham is quite good and definitely underrated. However, no one uses Gallade on ladder, so I just don't know how to rate it (Keep in mind that I watch ladder battles too, so even as a Spiritomb user I would have some experience with how it functions against other teams. But, I just haven't seen much Gallade.) Really, I'm just theorymonning, and Gallade's versatility is one of its best traits (and unfortunately, is also very difficult to quantify). I'd say Medicham is better, but I don't feel strongly about it.
Uxie to B+
To start with; the core of my experience is around Heal Bell Uxie, which is such a damn annoyance. Usually my opponent will have a team with some semi-dangerous Pokemon, and maybe 1 or 2 truly dangerous threats (dangerous to my team, I mean). As a result, I'll put effort into getting those Pokemon statused, for example letting my Alomomola take a Volt Switch for 65% from an Eelektross just so I can Toxic it before it leaves. When Uxie comes in and uses Heal Bell, those Pokemon are dangerous again, and everything I invested in statusing those Pokemon (i.e. all the damage I took, items I lost, hazards that were stacked on me) is simply wasted. As a result, I'd definitely give Uxie B+.
On a theory level, it's a replacement Cresselia with a lot of bulk and even more cool tools, such as Memento, Yawn and U-turn (together or separately), and of course Stealth Rock. It's also got dual screens and TrickScarf as two very cool options, as well as the always-helpful Stealth Rock. I've seen discussion of SubCM and I doubt it's very good, but you never know there either, I suppose.
Accelgor to A-:
I used to shit on offensive Accelgor a lot because it had 'no coverage'. But, to be honest, with a moveset of Bug Buzz / Sludge Bomb / Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice, what isn't covered?
Hitmonlee
Jellicent
Camerupt
Escavalier
Qwilfish
Mega Banette
Hitmontop
Braviary
Gurdurr
Combusken
Sawk
Weezing
Archeops
Cofagrigus
Golbat
Garbodor
Mantine
Scyther
Vivillon
Articuno
Jellicent
Camerupt
Escavalier
Qwilfish
Mega Banette
Hitmontop
Braviary
Gurdurr
Combusken
Sawk
Weezing
Archeops
Cofagrigus
Golbat
Garbodor
Mantine
Scyther
Vivillon
Articuno
Actually, that's a larger list than I thought. Still though, it gets pretty o.k. neutral coverage and there isn't much that's both specially bulky and interested in taking its hits; there's also a lot that gets hit super effectively. Just speaking from a pure stall perspective, this mon can give me a lot of trouble...now imagine what it can do against offensive teams with that frightening base 145 Speed? What's that, Scarf Emboar? Your scarf entitles you to go first? 145 base Speed says otherwise. Though Accelgor is a bit too reliant on Focus Blast and it's wondrous 70% hit chance for my liking...
By the way, Offensive Accelgor used to roll with 3 attacks, and then either Encore or Spikes; I think that's no longer the best set.
Flygon to A
Flygon had such promise... it hasn't impressed me currently, and I haven't seen it a lot either. Overall, I don't want to choice myself on anything but U-turn, and spamming u-turn eventually gets you punished. I think there's a lot of talk around this 'mon, but what are the actual sets it should be using? I think when that starts getting finalized, it may deserve a rise.
Rotom-C B+ -> A-
Rotom-c is such a scary mon to switch into; between Volt Switch, Leaf Storm, and Trick, you either have an Amoonguss or can be seriously inconvenienced by one of its moves. Choice Specs is even harder to switch into, as is WoW Scarf. I recall using Scarf Rotom-C against a good player with a sample team i'd taken for a ride; due to the threat of Scarf Volt Switch on his noivern, he Switched right into seismitoad...Boom, the predict. is this just me boasting about my **epic predicts**? Well, not really, it's just difficult to switch into this dude on offense, you either take 20-30% damage and lose momentum on top of that or get KOed by Leaf Storm; quite the loaded 50 / 50. On the other hand, losing that 50 / 50 can hurt as well. Overall just a tough Pokemon to switch into with a lot of cool stuff up its sleeve (sets without a choice item can be doubly as scary).
Underrated aspect alert: Trick Choice is great for strongly checking Reuniclus (and any other random bulky booster i guess)
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phantom
Banned deucer.
Flygon isn't anything less than a top tier Pokemon. A lot of the arguments are based around its lack of offensive prowess, which is true to an extent, but overlooks the fact that Flygon provides an exemplary utility move in Defog; if anything, I find that Flygon's merits (at least in this meta) are based more so around its supportive capabilities. With Noivern everywhere, I don't think CB or LO Defog sets are its best sets atm. Surprisingly, I've found that Scarf is its best set due to how much utility it can compress in a single slot. Versus more offensive teams, it can weave in and out of the match with U-turn and pick off various fast attackers such as Noivern, Delphox, Cobalion, etc when appropriate, and against more defensive teams, it has no problems coming in and clearing off their entry hazards. I usually go with a set of Outrage / Earthquake / U-turn / Defog. Choiced Defog looks fishy and isn't something you want to use more than once or twice in a given match, but it makes it so that you have a revenge-killer, momentum generator, and entry hazard remover all in one. It's a bit like Drapion in past metas in terms of how much it provided in one slot except with a fuckton more utility thanks to Defog; the best part about Defog Flygon is that it just doesn't take damage to entry hazard, which makes its job so much easier in that is isn't as screwed by a well-timed double switch like the other Pokemon that can remove hazards in RU, such as the spinners that take damage to Spikes and the Flying-types that are weak to Stealth Rock. I've also found Defensive sets to be pretty neat as well since Flygon acts as an excellent check to most Fire-types, Rhyperior, and Mega Steelix. It's so incredibly consistent when it comes to clearing off entry hazards, and if anything, I find that teams have yet to develop appropriate anti-measures to keep it from doing so. The most likely reason why is because it's actually pretty hard because not only does it sit in a good speed tier and threaten most Stealth Rock users, but it has enough offensive presence to force switches to get a Defog off. This is the real deal breaker for me and why I think Flygon is so good: even though the opponent has multiple checks to it and can keep it subdued offensively, it will still be able to put in work thanks to Defog and not forfeit momentum thanks to U-turn. Your Fairy might be able to switch in on it, but it doesn't punish Flygon from getting a Defog off nor can it do anything to stop Flygon form regenerating momentum with U-turn.
I've touched on how useful I find Flygon supportively and how this is its claim to fame in the current meta, but this doesn't mean that the offensive sets are a slouch. Despite Flygon's unassuming stats, it has the STABs and coverage moves that make it very difficult to wall outside of a select few Pokemon. Choice Band sets that incorporate Iron Tail beat all of the Pokemon that can typically switch into Flygon (naimly Fairy-types), thus limiting its pool of counters to one Pokemon at the top of my head, Alomomola. It's not something that deals an insane amount of damage like Tyrantrum or Emboar, but the fact that it has such incredible resilience to most forms of residual damage, a much better speed tier, and a U-turn that packs a decent punch means that it can afford to make a wrong a guess every now and then and it'll have another, often multiple, chances to retry. This is also isn't getting into more specially based and mixed attacker sets that can throw a lot of physical walls, including the aforementioned Alomomola, for a loop. To get a better idea of what I mean, Flygon is a lot like offensive Mega Audino in the sense that while its offensive stats aren't too good on paper, its actually isn't that all that simple to respond to due how good its coverage is; stats aren't everything in the context of a Pokemon's viability. When you look past the fact that it doesn't have the highest attacking stats, you notice that there's very few single defensive responses that can keep it out of line due to the options it has to either wear them down or put them in a checkmate position, such as U-turing out of Bronzong into a Pursuit trapper or simply incorporating a coverage move to rip open Fairy-types. Just because it isn't a nuke, doesn't mean it's easy to wall; STAB Earthquake in particular is extremely good in RU as we've seen in the last meta, and the fact that Flygon can dissuade most of the Ground-immune mons from swapping in while also being able to heavily damage just about every Ground resist is the cherry on top.
For those reasons above, I remain adamant that Flygon should stay where it is.
I've touched on how useful I find Flygon supportively and how this is its claim to fame in the current meta, but this doesn't mean that the offensive sets are a slouch. Despite Flygon's unassuming stats, it has the STABs and coverage moves that make it very difficult to wall outside of a select few Pokemon. Choice Band sets that incorporate Iron Tail beat all of the Pokemon that can typically switch into Flygon (naimly Fairy-types), thus limiting its pool of counters to one Pokemon at the top of my head, Alomomola. It's not something that deals an insane amount of damage like Tyrantrum or Emboar, but the fact that it has such incredible resilience to most forms of residual damage, a much better speed tier, and a U-turn that packs a decent punch means that it can afford to make a wrong a guess every now and then and it'll have another, often multiple, chances to retry. This is also isn't getting into more specially based and mixed attacker sets that can throw a lot of physical walls, including the aforementioned Alomomola, for a loop. To get a better idea of what I mean, Flygon is a lot like offensive Mega Audino in the sense that while its offensive stats aren't too good on paper, its actually isn't that all that simple to respond to due how good its coverage is; stats aren't everything in the context of a Pokemon's viability. When you look past the fact that it doesn't have the highest attacking stats, you notice that there's very few single defensive responses that can keep it out of line due to the options it has to either wear them down or put them in a checkmate position, such as U-turing out of Bronzong into a Pursuit trapper or simply incorporating a coverage move to rip open Fairy-types. Just because it isn't a nuke, doesn't mean it's easy to wall; STAB Earthquake in particular is extremely good in RU as we've seen in the last meta, and the fact that Flygon can dissuade most of the Ground-immune mons from swapping in while also being able to heavily damage just about every Ground resist is the cherry on top.
For those reasons above, I remain adamant that Flygon should stay where it is.
The weakness of having a Scarf and Band set is the restriction of your moves. Almost all of your details given seem to dictate on how you bait the switches or how you predict things in a certain way. While that logic may seem sound, it doesn't mean that Flygon is spectacular. The very same could be said against Flygon as all of his moves, bar U-Turn and Earthquake, can be worked around and consider how many setup sweepers are present in the tier, that is dangerous time given away. On paper and in practice, he can also be stopped by a lot of the tiers best, especially noting some of the tiers greatest anti-meta threats (Mega Glalie, Sneasel, Mega-Audino). It might not have the biggest counter sheet in the world, but it's hard to argue that Flygon can essentially be bopped by a lot of offensive checks. There are even some things that Flygon should normally check that get work itself around Flygon to win those specific battles such as Magnet Rise Cobalion and Scarf Emboar.
You could argue that these sets are going to be based off of variation and that it will seldom be an issue outside of high-ladder play. Think back, you also said that your sets could have variations of itself to check certain pokemon. That is counter-productive as with that mind set, Flygon can have matchup issues if it doesn't have the right move with it. Having great coverage is good, but not being able to compress everything down to a desirable set means that Flygon can't hit everything. It also can't have everything as you can switch out moves like Defog out into other options like Fire Blast , Earth Power, and Toxic. That in itself can also be problematic as you also lose out Flygon's strongest niche as an Offensive Hazard Controller. That's exactly what it is. An Offensive Hazard Controller. And one other pokemon comes to mind when seeing that term.
Both Lee and Flygon are very similar in their offensive presence within the tier. Both have monstrous power, great coverage, multiple sets, and can scare the majority of the tier away. What sets them apart is that while Flygon can have coverage issues, Hitmonlee suffers less as his flagship High Jump Kick is a staple move that belongs in every Hitmonlee set. Flygon can actually work around Earthquake or Outrage to special ones like Earth Power and Draco Meteor. While that is good and really gives Flygon a great niche as a versatile defogger, Hitmonlee doesn't need to change his sets much in order to be effective. High Jump Kick can bop a lot of the tier as a easy win-button that is more easier to understand compared to Flygon, where you always have to dictate the matchup and see how you're going to do with predictions. Not to say that Hitmonlee suffers the same fate, as you can predict HJK, it has an easier time in matchups more so than Flygon does. If we are going to continue this, since both Lee and Flygon are the tiers best hazard controllers, while also filling in similar niches; we need to get a statement straight.
Do we want them in the same ranking? Because if Hitmonlee moves to A+ then Flygon has the right to stay as Flygon boasts enough good qualities to stay within that spot. I'm not deny his power alone, but if if people think otherwise, then it should be fair that both of the tiers notable hazard controllers stay within the same ranking.
tl;dr at least these are both better than Golbat. ;;;
EDIT: Also changed from Defogger to Hazard Controller because Hitmonlee doesn't have wings.
You could argue that these sets are going to be based off of variation and that it will seldom be an issue outside of high-ladder play. Think back, you also said that your sets could have variations of itself to check certain pokemon. That is counter-productive as with that mind set, Flygon can have matchup issues if it doesn't have the right move with it. Having great coverage is good, but not being able to compress everything down to a desirable set means that Flygon can't hit everything. It also can't have everything as you can switch out moves like Defog out into other options like Fire Blast , Earth Power, and Toxic. That in itself can also be problematic as you also lose out Flygon's strongest niche as an Offensive Hazard Controller. That's exactly what it is. An Offensive Hazard Controller. And one other pokemon comes to mind when seeing that term.
Both Lee and Flygon are very similar in their offensive presence within the tier. Both have monstrous power, great coverage, multiple sets, and can scare the majority of the tier away. What sets them apart is that while Flygon can have coverage issues, Hitmonlee suffers less as his flagship High Jump Kick is a staple move that belongs in every Hitmonlee set. Flygon can actually work around Earthquake or Outrage to special ones like Earth Power and Draco Meteor. While that is good and really gives Flygon a great niche as a versatile defogger, Hitmonlee doesn't need to change his sets much in order to be effective. High Jump Kick can bop a lot of the tier as a easy win-button that is more easier to understand compared to Flygon, where you always have to dictate the matchup and see how you're going to do with predictions. Not to say that Hitmonlee suffers the same fate, as you can predict HJK, it has an easier time in matchups more so than Flygon does. If we are going to continue this, since both Lee and Flygon are the tiers best hazard controllers, while also filling in similar niches; we need to get a statement straight.
Do we want them in the same ranking? Because if Hitmonlee moves to A+ then Flygon has the right to stay as Flygon boasts enough good qualities to stay within that spot. I'm not deny his power alone, but if if people think otherwise, then it should be fair that both of the tiers notable hazard controllers stay within the same ranking.
tl;dr at least these are both better than Golbat. ;;;
EDIT: Also changed from Defogger to Hazard Controller because Hitmonlee doesn't have wings.
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Couple of other mons that I have a fair amount of experience with:
Uxie: This thing i seasily B+ rank rn imo. With Cresselia gone, Uxie capably steps in as a solid bulky Psychic-type. Thanks to a higher base Speed than Cress, Uxie only needs minimal Speed investment (44 Speed) to outpace Exploud, which can be crucial for more defensive teams seeing as Uxie can paralyze it and make it easier for the rest of the team to handle. Physically defensive Uxies check just about every Fighting-type in the tier, most notably, Cobalion. Unlike a lot of other common defensive mons tho, Uxie avoids Spikes thanks to Levitate (thus meaning it's only neutral to Rocks) which can make it more challenging to wear down just by forcing it out. Dual Screens is also a thing and Uxie is one of the best choices for this due to its solid Speed and great defenses. Oh, and then there's SubCM sets that actually have a place now with no Cress. Uxie gets the same great Psychic + Fairy coverage Cresselia did and is able to Speed tie Houndoom and Drapion (huge for having a chance to beat them with a Sub still intact should you have enough boosts before that) Overall, Uxie is really solid right now. Not super amazing, but very solid
Flygon: Flygon should really stay A+ rank. Spirit already mentioned a lot of the reasons, but also keep in mind that Flygon is one of offense's best responses to Rhyperior and Mega Steelix (Heavy Slam hurts a crapton tho) should it be running Earth Power. Its Ground typing also lets it block Volt Switch, which can be really cool for slowing down some opposing offensive teams. Flygon is a lot like it was in DPP OU if any of you were around for that. Stats don't blow you away, but it can do so much for a team with just one team slot.
Uxie: This thing i seasily B+ rank rn imo. With Cresselia gone, Uxie capably steps in as a solid bulky Psychic-type. Thanks to a higher base Speed than Cress, Uxie only needs minimal Speed investment (44 Speed) to outpace Exploud, which can be crucial for more defensive teams seeing as Uxie can paralyze it and make it easier for the rest of the team to handle. Physically defensive Uxies check just about every Fighting-type in the tier, most notably, Cobalion. Unlike a lot of other common defensive mons tho, Uxie avoids Spikes thanks to Levitate (thus meaning it's only neutral to Rocks) which can make it more challenging to wear down just by forcing it out. Dual Screens is also a thing and Uxie is one of the best choices for this due to its solid Speed and great defenses. Oh, and then there's SubCM sets that actually have a place now with no Cress. Uxie gets the same great Psychic + Fairy coverage Cresselia did and is able to Speed tie Houndoom and Drapion (huge for having a chance to beat them with a Sub still intact should you have enough boosts before that) Overall, Uxie is really solid right now. Not super amazing, but very solid
Flygon: Flygon should really stay A+ rank. Spirit already mentioned a lot of the reasons, but also keep in mind that Flygon is one of offense's best responses to Rhyperior and Mega Steelix (Heavy Slam hurts a crapton tho) should it be running Earth Power. Its Ground typing also lets it block Volt Switch, which can be really cool for slowing down some opposing offensive teams. Flygon is a lot like it was in DPP OU if any of you were around for that. Stats don't blow you away, but it can do so much for a team with just one team slot.
HypnoEmpire
Yokatta...
Pelipper should really be at least B- rank because it's just better than Golbat. It doesn't rely on Eviolite and can use Leftovers in its place, which is pretty huge because it doesn't lose a huge chunk of its bulk from Knock Off. Pelipper is also a great check to Cobalion, which is a pretty meta-defining Pokemon right now, as well as stuff like Durant and Escavalier. Unlike Golbat, it can actually beat hazard setters such as Rhyperior and Mega Steelix with Scald (and it walls Mega Steelix too!). Defog, Roost, and Scald are necessities, but it can run moves such as U-turn, Toxic, and even Flying STAB depending on what you want it to do. The biggest advantages I see for Golbat are Super Fang and Taunt (and Infiltrator I guess), as well as taking on Grass-types better, but Pelipper is just a lot more useful overall. It's a pretty solid Pokemon right now and I can even see it raising further in the future. So yeah, Pelipper to B- rank.
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