Resource XY RU Tier List (RU Viability Ranking itt)

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EonX

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Aromatisse: I've used Aromatisse since the early days of XY, so I have quite a bit of experience with it and I can agree with a drop down to A. Don't get me wrong, Aromatisse is still a very solid Pokemon in the current RU metagame, but there's one shift that has really hurt it: Moltres. Simply put, Aromatisse is the easiest switch-in Moltres could ever ask for. And with Moltres being the major offensive threat it is in the current metagame, this is pretty bad. I picked up Balance Claws (full RMT in my sig for those unfamiliar with the name / term) again recently to see how it fares in the current metagame, and my god am I glad I have AV Druddigon on that team. Otherwise, Moltres would get a free kill every time I have to bring in Aromatisse. Aromatisse is also a pretty easy switch-in for Doublade, another top offensive threat in RU currently. While Aromatisse is still a fantastic check to the likes of Hitmonlee, Sharpedo, and Druddigon )sort of. most run Gunk Shot now) and is still likely the best cleric in the tier, there's no denying that the recent rise of Moltres and continued high presence of Doublade really hurts Aromatisse in the current meta as it has no way to threaten them, ever. It's still solid, but recent metagame shifts haven't been that kind to Aromatisse, so a move down to A rank probably wouldn't hurt anything.

I have no experience with Audino, so I'll stay out of the discussion with that one.
 

Meru

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Audino really needs to move up, probably to B+. Between Knock Off and easily Wish Passing to a teammate thanks to Regenerator, it is able to effectively shut down a slew of offensive switch-ins, while still contributing to stallbreaking very well with Knock Off. These two facets alone make it very competitive in the cleric niche compared to Aromatisse, who is vastly overrated right now and needs to drop. Although I'm not sure why people are saying it's because of Moltres... Aromatisse can straight up PP stall Fire Blast, and easily Wish pass to another teammate. Since Moltres relies on a lot of 2HKOs, that kind of shits on it, so I would hardly call Aromatisse Moltres bait, unless you're talking about the subpar SubToxic Moltres set.
 

Meru

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I think the thing is that, while Aromatisse makes for a fine check for Moltres' Scarf and SubToxic sets (those lacking Aromatherapy cannot check the latter, though) because it can take their unboosted attacks and Wish/Aromatherapy to support its teammates (Ex.: 252 SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 136-162 (33.4 - 39.9%) -- 25% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery means it can check moltres rather well, flamethrower does even less), our favourite fairy cannot handle Moltres' more common and dangerous sets very well, which are the LO SubRoost /3 Attacks + Roost ones. Because of Moltres' really high firepower (pardon the pun) it can make Aroma's life quite difficult if it's not in tip-top shape:
252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 177-211 (43.5 - 51.9%) -- 66.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Misses aside, Moltres easily 2HKOes Aromatisse thanks to SR alone and, even if it gets minimum damage rolls both times, it still heavely pressures it to Wish-Protect, which is quite easy to exploit. Even if it manages to Wish-pass to something else, said something has to stomach a pretty powerful Fire Blast/Hurricane (Rhyperior, Regirock, Carbink, Slowking and Lanturn are the only things on top of my mind that can do that) and Aromatisse doesn't have Regenerator to alleviate the fact that, while Wish-passing, it may not be able to recover fully before switching out. Of course, I'm not factoring in any Toxic/Spikes that, while relatively easy to Spin/Defog away, cripple Aromatisse even more, either forcing it to protect for more Leftovers recovery or to waste a turn to Aromatherapy and get rid of the Toxic (and thus giving the Motres user a free turn/s). And besides, what can Aromatisse do to Moltres? Other than the extremely rare Thunderbolt (which is only remotely useful on an OTR set, which is pretty niche in itself), Moonblast damage can be easily recovered off (it cannot break its subs if uninvested and Moltres can even switch into SR and Roost afterwards), possible SpA drops can be worked around (for example, by stalling out Moonblast's PPs with Pressure, thus allowing something else theratening to switch in later and abuse a very weakened Aromatisse) and, while Toxic does cripple Moltres, not all Aroma's carry/have room for it.

EDIT: Spirit: I just thought that the fact that Moltres could use Aromatisse as fodder had to be explained a little more in-depth, considering I don't remember seeing any explaination of the sort about it. However, this being the Viability Rankings threat, I suppose my post doesn't really have much utility in it, so I apologise for the lack of usefulness.
I was talking about EonX's post where he said

Otherwise, Moltres would get a free kill every time I have to bring in Aromatisse.
Which just isn't true. But I guess you can write all of that for nothing ?_? I already knew Aromatisse was a bad Moltres switch-in but that doesn't necessarily mean Moltres forces Aromatisse out
 
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I personally believe that Audino should be moved up to A rank. I have been fighting for its rise in ranking since before it was even on the viability list, and I continue to support it. The reason is pretty simple:
Special Bulk+Knock Off+Cleric+Wish Passing+ Regenerator gives Audino a niche that no other pokemon can possess. A wish passing cleric with regenerator is extremely versatile, out classing aromatisse in my own opinion due to its survivability and ability as a pivot switch. Throwing the immensely useful knock off on the list just goes to show how even more useful it is. And while it may lack offensive presence, that isn't exactly uncommon with clerics and wishpassers. Survivability is more important in the long run imo.
In conclusion: Audino, with its access to knock off, heal bell, wish passing, and regenerator possesses a niche entirely of its own and makes it extremely useful in stall and even some balance teams. Regenerator gives it survivability unparalleled by its fellow wish passers, as it can more easily wish pass to others while still maintain a good health due to its regenerator, something that aroma fails to do. For these reasons, Audino most definitely deserves to be in the A- Rank, or at least B+ for now.
 
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Alright, I have a few noms to write:

to A+; Doublade just isn't as good as it used to be; with Scarf Moltres getting more and more popular, the hazard stacking teams it would shine in as a spinblocker have declined immensely, and while its typing and physical attack + defense are great, its terrible special defense and speed hold it back too much, and it rarely finds as much opportunites to set up and sweep as it did before, with basically every competent team being prepared for it, and with the rise of mons that can check it fairly easily on offensive teams, like Mix / Special Sharpedo, Shadow Ball Meloetta, etc. really hold it back. The metagame has adapted too much for it to be S rank.

will edit later, but i also think Cobalion should go to A and Bronzong to B+.
 

Molk

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Update time!

Aromatisse down to A rank

Audino up to B rank


aaand that's about it for now, if you strongly disagree with either just bring it up =).

I'd like to see some discussion on the three noms in Bouffalant's post too (Doublade down, Cobalion down, Bronzong up).
 
I think Doublade should be moved to A+ (I'd never thought I'd see this moment ;;)
As Bouffalant said, Doublade gets countered by many Pokemon. A good example of this would be Life Orb Sharpedo which can 2HKO Doublade with Crunch. While at +2 Doublade can only do a bit more than 50% with Shadow Sneak.

+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 129-153 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO

Moving on to my next nomination: I believe that Sharpedo should be moved to S rank.
My reasoning is that, with access to Speed Boost; a great ability making Sharpedo able to shit on Choice Scarf users like its no big deal. Not only that, Sharpedo is strong as fuck. Hitmonlee, one of the Pokemon who beats Sharpedo, cannot switch in against Sharpedo's attacks. Also, with Sharpedo's access to Ice fang, and Ice Beam it can do some damage to Pokemon that wall it such as Amoonguss, and especially Virizion.

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 190-226 (43.9 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 250-296 (77.1 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Knowing that Sharpedo cannot OHKO Grass-Type Checks, its teammates can do chip damage to these Pokemon, and then Sharpedo can finish it off, while gaining speed with Speed Boost. Also Pokemon with weak defense fall to Sharpedo's priority moves if it hasn't got its Speed Boosts yet.

EDIT: it can also go special attack if need be
 
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Punchshroom

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I think Doublade should be moved to A+ (I'd never thought I'd see this moment ;;)
As Bouffalant said, Doublade gets countered by many Pokemon. A good example of this would be Life Orb Sharpedo which can 2HKO Doublade with Crunch. While at +2 Doublade can only do a bit more than 50% with Shadow Sneak.

+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 129-153 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
What Doublade switches into a Sharpedo's Crunch? And even then, Sharpedo would come out taking a lot of damage from Iron Head + Shadow Sneak + 2 LO recoils.

As for Doublade, I'm on the fence on Doublade's rank considering it can still tank a good majority of the meta, and the only "meta adapting" that Bouff was talking about which I see would be that Doublade struggles against its fellow S Ranks.

Moving on to my next nomination: I believe that Sharpedo should be moved to S rank.
My reasoning is that, with access to Speed Boost; a great ability making Sharpedo able to shit on Choice Scarf users like its no big deal. Not only that, Sharpedo is strong as fuck. Hitmonlee, one of the Pokemon who beats Sharpedo, cannot switch in against Sharpedo's attacks. Also, with Sharpedo's access to Ice fang, and Ice Beam it can do some damage to Pokemon that wall it such as Amoonguss, and especially Virizion.

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 190-226 (43.9 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 250-296 (77.1 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Knowing that Sharpedo cannot OHKO Grass-Type Checks, its teammates can do chip damage to these Pokemon, and then Sharpedo can finish it off, while gaining speed with Speed Boost. Also Pokemon with weak defense fall to Sharpedo's priority moves if it hasn't got its Speed Boosts yet.

EDIT: it can also go special attack if need be
Sharpedo may be an excellent cleaner, but it still needs a good deal of support to do its job, since it relies heavily on OHKOing targets and being untouched in return, and while its Attack is good the BP of its moves can falter somewhat. Also don't use Ice Fang for Amoonguss and Virizion when Zen Headbutt is available. There are plenty of Pokemon in the tier that can take Sharpedo's attacks, namely Alomomola, Druddigon, Aromatisse, Escavalier, Durant, Cobalion, Whimsicott, Gastrodon, or even things like healthy Doublade, which keep Sharpedo in check, plus more Pokemon such as Registeel and Virizion if Sharpedo lacks the right coverage move. Reliance on Protect means it often telegraphs the attack (giving the opponent free switches), but more importantly eats up a moveslot that can be used for both coverage and priority (important for Fletchinder, weakened Hitmonlee, and Mega Banette). There is merit in a fast, threatening attacker's Destiny Bond, though Sharpedo may have prefered coverage so that it may beat the threat instead of forcing a double KO. It is indeed a threat to offensive teams, but still not the threat to prepare for as Sharpedo suffers from its sheer fraility, reliance on OHKOes, and slight 4MSS.
 
My little "short" cent about Doublade. I agree with Punchshroom , I think Doublade is always a leading tier, just its strenght vs opposed super offensive weapons and a good switch against so many RU pokemon, I think there is not a single game when you can boost it with SD and Iron Head, Shadow Sneak and Shadow Ball are always dangerous, despite its slowness too.
It's always the same set, you know what is it but you have to pay close attention to every move/switch you do when Doublade is in your opponent team. Otherwise you lose your match.
 

EonX

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Doublade: Here's what Doublade says when it's in Team Preview: "Here's my set; stop it." Only one set, but it works really well. It has trouble with its fellow S rank Pokemon, but part of the reason they're S rank is because they handle Blade so well (on top of the the other things they do of course) Let's not forget that Pokemon such as Heliolisk and Pyroar are partially ranked as high as they are because they can handle Blade better than most (hell, that's the only reason Pyroar is ranked at all imo) Doublade isn't super powerful like Moltres. It isn't extremely versatile like Meloetta. But what Doublade does is influence the tier in a large manner to the point where there's a Pokemon that's ranked largely just because it beats Doublade so easily. Doublade is a Pokemon that you need to make sure your team handles pretty well if you hope to win a lot of battles. Same with Moltres and Meloetta. Hence why I think it should stay in S rank.

Cobalion: I really feel Cobalion should stay at A+. It has such a great defensive typing, it's the only Fighting-type that doesn't need coverage to beat Aromatisse, and its Support and CM sets handle typical switch-ins quite nicely. It has to use a secondary set (CM) to beat Doublade and its Support set doesn't always have the firepower you'd like in some situations. That said, it works on hyper offense, bulky offense, and balance teams quite nicely with just its Support set, showing its flexibility with a single set. The SD set may not be as good as it once was, but being able to run SR on a sweeper can be really helpful for certain teams. And of course, the CM set can get past Doublade easiy while also heavily denting most common Fighting-type switch-ins like Weezing, Gligar, and Amoonguss. Cobalion can't do everything it wants at once and may struggle with Doublade, Slowking, and Scarf Moltres, but its ability to fit on multiple types of teams, use different sets, and great defensive typing means it probably has a set that can work for your team (unless its Stall)

Haven't used Bronzong at all lately (the team I used it on is pretty outdated), so I'll reserve judgment on that one.
 

Pearl

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Some cents on some of the most recent nominations:



Doublade is an excellent Pokemon, a metagame defining one while we're at that. However, because of that, the metagame's also adapted really hard to it: Knock Off Gligar consistently beats Doublade, Moltres destroys it right off the bat and the current circumstances are really unkind to it in general. However, due to the sheer amount of Pokemon it keeps in check and ability to sweep under some circumstances, it means that A+ is fine for it, and it should never go lower than that, especially considering that it's very likely Doublade returns back to S come ORAS.



I've used Bronzong intensively, and if there's one thing that the RUgged Mountain (Afro Smash) has taught me is that it doesn't matter how safe you are from Dugtrio if Spiritomb eats you alive. Seriously, the later is way more common and consistent than Dugtrio, to the point where I'd rather use Registeel and be weak to Dugtrio than being destroyed by Spiritomb every time. Don't get me wrong though, Bronzong shits on a lot of stuff, including Rhyperior, the same Pokemon as Registeel and probably some others I'm forgetting. However, I think that B is absolutely fine for the role Bronzong fulfills, although B+ wouldn't hurt to see either.



Sharpedo is the perfect definition of an A+ rank Pokemon, and should stay as one. It is an amazing sweeper, and one of the only reasons to use Hyper Offense (or Baton Pass) in this metagame, which is huge. However, it struggles to break through Aromatisse, Alomomola and even defensive variants of Druddigon, and has some more offensive checks too, such as Virizion and Gurdurr, but what makes it such an amazing Pokemon is how well it punishes the opponent's mistakes, since one single misplay with a team's answer for it make it very easy for Sharpedo to run rampant. However, its lack of any defensive backbone or utility, as well as difficulty breaking through Pokemon which are really hard to wear down (Amoonguss, Alomomola, and Aromatisse), mean that it should never touch S Rank.

Now, onto some nominations of my own, both of them related to Hyper Offense:



Spirit and some other people have seen me using this for some decent success (that team in general is very troll-ish, but Archeops always ends up pulling its weight), and I honestly have no clue why it was removed from the viability rankings to start with. Its offensive sets are horrible, and that's an undeniable truth. However, its an amazing suicide lead, outrunning every other dedicated lead (with the exception of Accelgor, which gets destroyed with ease) and guaranteeing Stealth Rock along with momentum. This doesn't look all that spectacular at first. However, what really makes Archeops shine is its access to Endeavor: Aside from guaranteeing Stealth Rock for its team, it can also massively weaken any opponent that doesn't have a Ghost-type, considering that Archeops' user predicts correctly every turn, making it a premier contender for a suicide lead on offense. I'd probably add it in B-, but due to it being one-dimensional, I wouldn't mind if it started at C+.




This one isn't really mine, but it had some mountain success thanks to Psychotic. Haunter has a nifty Speed tier for RU, a ridiculously spammable STAB move, high Special Attack, the coverage to dismantle some teams and, access to Destiny Bond really sells the deal regarding this thing's viability. Even when it's unable to pull its weight through its offensive prowess, Haunter still has the utility provided by Destiny Bond, allowing it to knock at least one Pokemon. Anyways, here are some damage calculations regarding its power:

252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aromatisse: 408-484 (100.4 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Wave vs. 104 HP / 156 SpD Alomomola: 265-313 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss: 199-235 (46 - 54.3%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 204-242 (63.1 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 203-242 (60 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 179-212 (55.7 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Cresselia: 229-273 (51.5 - 61.4%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 149-177 (36.8 - 43.8%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 195-229 (49.6 - 58.2%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO

With all of this in mind, I'd probably add it in C rank, but as with the first nomination, if that's too much, D or C- would be fine for the time being.
 

Punchshroom

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im gonna be honest, haunter sucks lol. I was just using it because i had forgotten that Mismagius existed, and it looks cool. I was using a set of Dazzling Gleam/Shadow Ball/Taunt/Destiny Bond, and Missy does exactly the same thing except better.
I find Mismagius is only really better than Haunter in the attacking department if it has a set up move, otherwise Haunter's better Special Attack and Poison STAB make it a very competent attacker in its own right. That said, being a Ghost-type weak to Psychic attacks and is slower than Delphox (unlike Magius) is really not good for it.
 

Pearl

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lmao, my bad then. however, i actually think that haunter's use is justified over mismagius in some situations (although i'm a huge mismagius hater fsr, so there's that bias too). my huge turndown regarding the later is its inability to hurt meloetta at all, while haunter does a good 37% at least against offensive sets. i'll give it a try myself and see how it goes i guess

edit: also, while mismagius' special attack is "only" lower by 10 base, it's enough to miss out on some stuff (it actually has a chance of missing a 2HKO on cresselia for example, but that's a subjective situation that is unlikely to happen in an actual game), and delphox's usage has been decaying a lot lately, although it's still an excellent pokemon, so missing out on it isn't that huge when you still outrun the premier fire-type pokemon of the tier and can nuke every calm mind psychic-type
 
Doublade to A+
While Doublade is still a great Pokemon because of a number of reasons it is very hugely prepared for in the current metagame with Pokemon like Moltres, Spiritomb, and Meloetta being very common, Cobalion usually using Taunt and Volt Switch, Skuntank commonly using Foul Play and Knock Off Gligar being quite popular. Basically one of the thinks that made so Doublade great to be put in S, setting up on a lot of the metagame, doesn't hold true in todays metagame.
I am open to it being added back to S in the future but for now i believe A+ is the right place.
 

Pearl

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Making some fast nominations:



Hippopotas and Stoutland -> Unranked to C- (Hippo for D probably)

Both Sun, Hail (Rotom-F only, Abomasnow is mostly a standalone Pokemon) and Rain have some represents here in the viability rankings, and while Sand isn't really a dominating force, it's not completely useless either. Hippopotas and Stoutland need each other for things to work properly, and while the former is dead weight for the most part, it still gets Stealth Rock up against some Pokemon with less offensive presence and pressures opposing Gligar, which usually want to come in to remove Stealth Rock, only to get Toxic'd while Hippo still manages to get the hazards set up. Stoutland needs no introduction by now. It mauls through offensive teams, is a powerful revenge killer and packs some usefulness even against stall (it has nifty coverage, such as Ice Fang for Gligar, Superpower for Rock- and Steel-types, Crunch for Doublade and so on, backed up by Choice Band's power).

Slightly off-topic: Assault Vest Kabutops under Sandstorm is a fucking beast n__n

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kabutops in Sand: 88-104 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- 61.1% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hidden Power Grass vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kabutops in Sand: 203-239 (71.2 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



Tangrowth -> B- to B

This was actually on the verge of moving down to C+ a little time ago. Assault Vest fulfills a niche on some teams, and that's about it. However, offensive sets is where it's at. This thing has a ridiculous amount of options, and its sheer versatility is on ridiculous levels. Choice Specs Tangrowth provides an amazing nuke on offensive teams that are desperate for a solid Water-type resist, while Swords Dance and Special Life Orb sets just smash stall with relative ease. I doubt I'll get much support for this one, but it's still worth trying I guess.
 
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Molk

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Hey guys, not a big update but i'd like to let all of you know that i've added Archeops to C+ rank for now. I've seen the suicide lead set that Pearl's been talking about in action and it's honestly pretty cool (really fast Taunt that outspeeds even Cobalion's, really fast Stealth Rock that's really hard for opponents to Taunt, Endeavor is really great for a last ditch hit once you're down to your Focus Sash, Head Smash works sorta like Accelgor's Final Gambit in that it blocks Rapid Spin and Defog for a turn if you KO yourself with it through recoil, and on some occasions you even get the opportunity to throw a full powered one out to nuke something), i think B- is probably a bit too high for it atm, but it should fit perfectly into C+ imo.

keep discussing imo :]. still not 100% sure what to do w/ sword in particular, and of course if you strongly disagree with Archeops being ranked for some reason, be sure to post here!
 
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See I don't agree with that. Samurott deserves a place in the Viability Rankings. The main reason why Samurott didn't get an analysis is because of Feraligatr, and Clawitzer overclassing Samurott. so yeah :/
 
See I don't agree with that. Samurott deserves a place in the Viability Rankings. The main reason why Samurott didn't get an analysis is because of Feraligatr, and Clawitzer overclassing Samurott. so yeah :/
If Samurott is outclassed completely by Feraligatr and Clawitzer and has no niche in the tier, doesn't that make it not worth a spot on the rankings at all?
 
The only thing Samurott has going for it, is Knock Off and Mega Horn on a Swords Dance set but not sure if that is niche enough to put it into the viability ranking.
 
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